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Post by Tim Bradley on Oct 8, 2015 14:08:52 GMT
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Post by Feroniya27 on Oct 20, 2015 2:10:21 GMT
So any thoughts as to placement for Early Adventures 2.2, The Forsaken? I'm thinking before The Resistance, which would end up making it the earliest Second Doctor story. Primarily because Ben says he hasn't known Jamie that long, and Jamie seems to be more ignorant of anything technological than normal. More story-relevant reasons are in the spoilers block. {Spoilers for The Forsaken (and Resistance)}
Unfortunately both this story and Resistance are very similar, in that they both have one of the companions meeting one of their relatives in World War II. In Resistance it's Polly's uncle, and here it's Ben's father. You would think that no matter which one came first, the other story would have one of the two companions saying something like "I understand what you're going through" to the other. I doubt that Resistance does (I haven't heard it since about a year ago), so that makes figuring out which came first more complex.
I figure that Ben tried to avoid interacting with his father too much, wanting to preserve his timeline to make sure he stayed alive, while Polly couldn't help interfering trying to keep her uncle from dying. So since Polly's experience was more intense, it would have had a larger chance of being mentioned had it happened first. So by default that would put Ben's story first.
The only problem with that is it puts The Forsaken and Resistance back to back, which only heightens their similarities, but future stories might fit in between them and help with that.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Nov 25, 2015 11:26:06 GMT
Hello everyone! Here's the updated version of 'The Second Doctor's Timeline' with more stories including the prose Short Trips and the TV comic adventures with John and Gillian. Enjoy! Tim.  |
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Post by ausir on Dec 14, 2015 2:41:13 GMT
"The Black Hole" actually doesn't take place during season 6B. In fact, it contradicts the whole concept of season 6B, and takes place during season 4, while the Doctor is traveling with Jamie and Victoria (and states that "The Two Doctors" takes place during "The Black Hole"). Given that other stories are explicitly set during season 6B, you'll need to put "The Two Doctors" at two different points - during season 4, within "The Black Hole", and during season 6B, just after "World Game".
I'd also move "Helicon Prime" to the gap within "The Black Hole" as opposed to season 6B, as Big Finish has now made clear that season 6B is not part of their version of the continuity, as opposed to e.g. the PDA continuity.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 14, 2015 6:33:59 GMT
"The Black Hole" actually doesn't take place during season 6B. In fact, it contradicts the whole concept of season 6B, and takes place during season 4, while the Doctor is traveling with Jamie and Victoria (and states that "The Two Doctors" takes place during "The Black Hole"). Given that other stories are explicitly set during season 6B, you'll need to put "The Two Doctors" at two different points - during season 4, within "The Black Hole", and during season 6B, just after "World Game". I'd also move "Helicon Prime" to the gap within "The Black Hole" as opposed to season 6B, as Big Finish has now made clear that season 6B is not part of their version of the continuity, as opposed to e.g. the PDA continuity. Don't you mean Season 5? Season 4 is with the Doctor, Jamie, Polly and Ben. Season 5 is with the Doctor, Jamie and Victoria. Tim. |
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Post by ausir on Dec 14, 2015 10:04:29 GMT
Of course, I mean season 5. |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 16, 2015 12:02:25 GMT
Given that other stories are explicitly set during season 6B, you'll need to put "The Two Doctors" at two different points - during season 4, within "The Black Hole", and during season 6B, just after "World Game". I'm a little puzzled by this statement of yours. How come 'The Two Doctors' is at two points when it's the same story and the events are consistent throughout. I'll place 'The Black Hole', 'The Two Doctors' and 'Helicon Prime' during Season 5 as you suggest. Tim. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 14:53:28 GMT
Given that other stories are explicitly set during season 6B, you'll need to put "The Two Doctors" at two different points - during season 4, within "The Black Hole", and during season 6B, just after "World Game". I'm a little puzzled by this statement of yours. How come 'The Two Doctors' is at two points when it's the same story and the events are consistent throughout. I'll place 'The Black Hole', 'The Two Doctors' and 'Helicon Prime' during Season 5 as you suggest. Tim. Is helicon prime linked to the other two? |
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Post by omega on Dec 16, 2015 23:04:17 GMT
I'm a little puzzled by this statement of yours. How come 'The Two Doctors' is at two points when it's the same story and the events are consistent throughout. I'll place 'The Black Hole', 'The Two Doctors' and 'Helicon Prime' during Season 5 as you suggest. Tim. Is helicon prime linked to the other two? The first story to suggest 6B, that there were further stories for the Second Doctor after The War Games was The Two Doctors. The Second Doctor was in possession of a TARDIS remote that was noted in-story to have been something the Sixth Doctor desired, and the Time Lord equivalent of goverment issue. The Doctor was also confident of getting back to Victoria having left her to study graphology, and the Second Doctor wasn't noted for his ability to fly the TARDIS accurately at all, so there had to be something he had up his sleeve. Helicon Prime ties into this, as it's just the Second Doctor and Jamie, which never happened on-screen and the Doctor is acting almost like the Seventh, seeming to know where they had landed and acting to some sort of plan to thwart someone's evil scheme. Unless he'd developed a short term clairvoyance and knew how events would play out, the Doctor would have had to do some research beforehand, indicating a deliberate landing. 6B was fully established in the Terrance Dicks novel World Game, where the Doctor receives a stay of execution from his sentence on the condition he goes on missions for the CIA (Celestial Intervention Agency, a group later incarnations of the Doctor hold in low esteem). The end of World Game leads into The Two Doctors, where the Doctor's success in World Game earns him the chance to be rejoined by Jamie. You're free to accept or ignore the 6B theory as you wish, but please don't be actively hostile towards it. There was someone like that on the old forum who made conversation impossible. |
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Post by ausir on Dec 17, 2015 4:11:25 GMT
We have two conflicting sources on when "The Two Doctors" is set. Currently, this means that it's set during to different times based on whether you belive the PDA continuity or the Big Finish continuity (similarly to how the Brigadier's fate from the books was contradicted by the new series).
According to the novel "World Game", "The Two Doctors" is set during Season 6B. According to "The Black Hole", it's set during Season 5. So these are two conflicting accounts that can't really be reconciled.
I think it's best to put it in both places, stating:
"The Second Doctor's appearance in 'The Two Doctors' (TV) takes place here according to 'The Black Hole'." and "The Second Doctor's appearance in 'The Two Doctors' (TV) takes place here according to 'World Game'."
"The Black Hole" offers an alternate explanation for this, which is why it's best to put "Helicon Prime" during "The Black Hole" regardless of whether you accept Season 6B or not, as both are part of the Big Finish version of the DW continuity. I'd still leave the novels and comics as season 6B, though, as particularly the novels are explicitly set there.
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Post by ausir on Dec 17, 2015 4:25:21 GMT
Maybe also move "The Second Doctor's appearance in 'Seven to One' (ST/Audio) takes place here" and other BF Short Trips now placed at Season 6B to "The Black Hole"? I'd say that given the plot of "The Black Hole" and the interview in the extras, this should probably be the default placement of all Big Finish stories that were previously assumed to be set during Season 6B (but with comics and non-Big Finish prose left where they are).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2015 6:53:57 GMT
Sounds to me like Helicon Prin could fit either during Black Hole or after World Game. We really don't need Two Doctors listing twice though unless World Game conclusively states it is before Two Doctors (and I don't believe it does)
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Post by omega on Dec 17, 2015 6:54:00 GMT
"The Black Hole" offers an alternate explanation for this, which is why it's best to put "Helicon Prime" during "The Black Hole" regardless of whether you accept Season 6B or not, as both are part of the Big Finish version of the DW continuity. I'd still leave the novels and comics as season 6B, though, as particularly the novels are explicitly set there. Sound policy, I see no reason to dispute it. |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 17, 2015 8:30:05 GMT
We have two conflicting sources on when "The Two Doctors" is set. Currently, this means that it's set during to different times based on whether you belive the PDA continuity or the Big Finish continuity (similarly to how the Brigadier's fate from the books was contradicted by the new series). According to the novel "World Game", "The Two Doctors" is set during Season 6B. According to "The Black Hole", it's set during Season 5. So these are two conflicting accounts that can't really be reconciled. I think it's best to put it in both places, stating: "The Second Doctor's appearance in 'The Two Doctors' (TV) takes place here according to 'The Black Hole'." and "The Second Doctor's appearance in 'The Two Doctors' (TV) takes place here according to 'World Game'." Okay. This is something I wish wouldn't happen again. Now things are more confusing. I'm willing to believe the Big Finish version of 'Doctor Who' continuity, but I find it hard to understand how they seem to have dismissed the continuity already established in the PDA books as in 'World Game'. Though I haven't read the book, I've previously assumed and accepted the Season 6B theory. Now BF have changed that, it makes it annoying. Though saying that, I supposed the Target novelizations aren't any better. E.g. In the 'Black Orchid' novelization, Terrance Dudley messed things up by saying 'The King's Demons' takes place before 'Black Orchid' whereas in fact it took place after that story. Here's another interesting thought. If 'The Two Doctors' is set during 'Black Hole', how come the Doctor and Jamie look older than they should when they're supposed to be younger-looking. Thanks Tim. |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 17, 2015 8:58:52 GMT
Maybe also move "The Second Doctor's appearance in 'Seven to One' (ST/Audio) takes place here" and other BF Short Trips now placed at Season 6B to "The Black Hole"? I'd say that given the plot of "The Black Hole" and the interview in the extras, this should probably be the default placement of all Big Finish stories that were previously assumed to be set during Season 6B (but with comics and non-Big Finish prose left where they are). I've done as you suggest and added 'The Two Doctors' in both after 'Black Hole' and 'World Game' and also moved 'Seven to One' after 'Black Hole'. 'A Stain in the Red Stain' actually makes a reference to Zoe, so I'm inclined to leave that where it was for the time being. I haven't read any of the BF prose and audio STs with the Second Doctor, so I'm in a quandary about moving them as well. Tim. Tim. |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Feb 5, 2016 8:57:47 GMT
Hello everyone! I've now updated the Second Doctor's timeline thread by having it as a page view instead of a PDF view for users to see. Enjoy! Tim. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 10:03:47 GMT
Maybe also move "The Second Doctor's appearance in 'Seven to One' (ST/Audio) takes place here" and other BF Short Trips now placed at Season 6B to "The Black Hole"? I'd say that given the plot of "The Black Hole" and the interview in the extras, this should probably be the default placement of all Big Finish stories that were previously assumed to be set during Season 6B (but with comics and non-Big Finish prose left where they are). I've done as you suggest and added 'The Two Doctors' in both after 'Black Hole' and 'World Game' and also moved 'Seven to One' after 'Black Hole'. 'A Stain in the Red Stain' actually makes a reference to Zoe, so I'm inclined to leave that where it was for the time being. I haven't read any of the BF prose and audio STs with the Second Doctor, so I'm in a quandary about moving them as well. Tim. Tim. Hi, Tim. There are two stories set in Prague that deal with the Doctor and Jamie alone. The Time Eater is the first and I think has to be set before The Two Doctors because it's the first time that Jamie sees the Stattenheim Remote Control. Across Silent Seas is the second and is a bit more ambiguous with its placement. On a different note, I'm a little confused about the John and Gillian comic strip placement. I thought World Game took place immediately after The War Games? |
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Post by Tim Bradley on Apr 17, 2016 20:53:31 GMT
I've done as you suggest and added 'The Two Doctors' in both after 'Black Hole' and 'World Game' and also moved 'Seven to One' after 'Black Hole'. 'A Stain in the Red Stain' actually makes a reference to Zoe, so I'm inclined to leave that where it was for the time being. I haven't read any of the BF prose and audio STs with the Second Doctor, so I'm in a quandary about moving them as well. Tim. Tim. Hi, Tim. There are two stories set in Prague that deal with the Doctor and Jamie alone. The Time Eater is the first and I think has to be set before The Two Doctors because it's the first time that Jamie sees the Stattenheim Remote Control. Across Silent Seas is the second and is a bit more ambiguous with its placement. On a different note, I'm a little confused about the John and Gillian comic strip placement. I thought World Game took place immediately after The War Games? Hi wolfie. Thanks for your suggestions about those two stories set in Prague with the Doctor and Jamie. I've now placed them before 'The Two Doctors'. I don't know why I didn't place 'World Game' after 'The War Games'. I think that was a mistake. The reason for the TV comics placed towards the end of the Second Doctor's timeline is because some of them led into some of the Earthbound stories as I gathered from the 'Stripped For Action - The Second Doctor' documentary on 'The War Games' DVD. For now, I'll leave them where they are until anyone suggests a better placement for them. Tim. |
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Post by Feroniya27 on Jul 13, 2016 3:27:48 GMT
In The Integral Jamie refers to "the wee beasties in that cellar" at their previous stop. Does anyone know if this is a reference to an actual story, or something that hasn't actually been made?
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Post by Digi on Sept 2, 2018 22:55:23 GMT
Hey Tim, I was going through the post-War Games/6B section on this and I had a couple of questions. They may end up being nothing - my questions arise from comparing with the Tardis Wikia, which I know is a bit of an unreliable mess.
In section 7, you've got entry 85 called "Secret of the Cybermen." However there is no article with that title (either with or without a "The" at the start). However they do have the story immediately preceding "The Faithful Rocket Pack" (entry 86 on your page) is titled "The Coming of the Cybermen" - a title that's not found anywhere on your page. Is this a mistake? Or is it just a missing article on the Tardis Wikia?
Similarly, also in section 7, you have entry 89 called "The Big Dig." But over on the Tardis Wikia, the comic story that falls between "The Witches" (entry 88) and "The Sabre-Toothed Gorillas" (entry 90) is called "Cyber-Mole" - which is, again not found anywhere on your page. Same question as the previous one - is the Tardis Wikia missing an article?
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