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Post by themeddlingmonk on Mar 12, 2019 13:06:52 GMT
Devil in the Mist takes place shortly after The King’s Demons.
Black Thursday takes place shortly after Devil in the Mist
(One of the first lines in the TARDIS is Turlough asking the Doctor how he feels after the events of Devil in the Mist)
Power Game takes place immediately after Black Thursday.
The Kamelion Empire takes place immediately after Power Game and leads directly into The Five Doctors.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 20, 2019 9:34:31 GMT
Relative Time from The Legacy of Time starts with the Doctor setting course for Amsterdam, and given that {Spoiler}
he forgets the events of the story, so he'd probably go straight back to programming the TARDIS for that destination afterwards, it's probably safe to assume this story takes place directly before he returns at the end of The Waters of Amsterdam 
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Aug 17, 2020 16:21:54 GMT
So I was listening to Circular Time and Renaissance of the Daleks the other day and I’ve picked up on a few things.
For starters, Autumn definitely needs to come after the DWM Comics as the Doctor constantly refers to all the previous times he’s played cricket in Stockbridge and they even have pictures of him up on the walls from when he’s played in past years. But they of course think that it’s a family line rather than just the one man. I suppose you could in theory say that the DWM comics were a later trip but it doesn’t really sit right.
Also, there’s not actually a gap between the Doctor dropping off Nyssa in Rhodes and arriving at the Savoy hotel in Renaissance because General Tillington basically says that they watched the Doctor drop Nyssa off in Rhodes and then go to the hotel. Plus because of the interocitor, the same amount of time has to pass for the Doctor as Nyssa which is pretty much a day, if even that. If the Doctor had gone off on loads of adventures before arriving at the hotel, he would’ve gotten Nyssa’s message about being in trouble long before even arriving at the hotel.
And finally, I relistened to Fallen Angels and i think the line about the trip to Heathrow has been taken a bit out of context because I don’t think it necessarily suggests that the Doctor was there recently. The exchange goes something like this:
Doctor: “The chaps at Heathrow are lovely”
Gabby: “Been there recently?”
Doctor: “1981”
Gabby: “That long ago?” (Shes from 2015)
Doctor: “Not so long for me, but five hundred years in the future (they’re in the sixteenth century) see that’s the thing about time travel.
So it’s less a case of him having been there recently, and more a case of him commenting on the nature of time travel and how 1981 was like 30 years ago for Gabby but the Doctor was in 1981 a lot more recently than 30 years ago, if that makes sense.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 17, 2020 16:41:27 GMT
So I was listening to Circular Time and Renaissance of the Daleks the other day and I’ve picked up on a few things. For starters, Autumn definitely needs to come after the DWM Comics as the Doctor constantly refers to all the previous times he’s played cricket in Stockbridge and they even have pictures of him up on the walls from when he’s played in past years. But they of course think that it’s a family line rather than just the one man. I suppose you could in theory say that the DWM comics were a later trip but it doesn’t really sit right. Also, there’s not actually a gap between the Doctor dropping off Nyssa in Rhodes and arriving at the Savoy hotel in Renaissance because General Tillington basically says that they watched the Doctor drop Nyssa off in Rhodes and then go to the hotel. Plus because of the interocitor, the same amount of time has to pass for the Doctor as Nyssa which is pretty much a day, if even that. If the Doctor had gone off on loads of adventures before arriving at the hotel, he would’ve gotten Nyssa’s message about being in trouble long before even arriving at the hotel. And finally, I relistened to Fallen Angels and i think the line about the trip to Heathrow has been taken a bit out of context because I don’t think it necessarily suggests that the Doctor was there recently. The exchange goes something like this: Doctor: “The chaps at Heathrow are lovely” Gabby: “Been there recently?” Doctor: “1981” Gabby: “That long ago?” (Shes from 2015) Doctor: “Not so long for me, but five hundred years in the future (they’re in the sixteenth century) see that’s the thing about time travel. So it’s less a case of him having been there recently, and more a case of him commenting on the nature of time travel and how 1981 was like 30 years ago for Gabby but the Doctor was in 1981 a lot more recently than 30 years ago, if that makes sense. Ah. That rather reopens the problem of where the DWM Comics and Empire of the Racnoss belong. So since the DWM Comics must be prior to Autumn and the Stockbridge Trilogy, there must be a totally undefined period where the Doctor is alone. Are there any other stories during his time with Nyssa that could be interpreted as providing such a gap or do we just have to assume one exists? I listened to Empire relatively recently and there’s nothing to really go on. The Doctor mentions Tegan at one point when complaining about characters arguing, so it could be in the Waters of Amsterdam gap. Agreed about Fallen Angels, it could probably go in the Waters gap too. Sidenote, Tim Bradley I notice you’ve put The Helliax Rift in the gap created by The Gathering. The problem with this is it’s kinda implied the Doctor can’t remember this part of his life well, for some reason, as the Sixth Doctor doesn’t pick up on hints sent by his past self in The Reaping. By contrast the Sixth Doctor fully recalls the events of Helliax in Hour of the Cybermen. As the cover of Helliax has the Doctor in his Season 21 outfit, might I suggest it could work just after And You Will Obey Me as another side trip before the Doctor went back to Little Hodcombe? |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Aug 17, 2020 17:09:05 GMT
Ah. That rather reopens the problem of where the DWM Comics and Empire of the Racnoss belong. So since the DWM Comics must be prior to Autumn and the Stockbridge Trilogy, there must be a totally undefined period where the Doctor is alone. Are there any other stories during his time with Nyssa that could be interpreted as providing such a gap or do we just have to assume one exists? I listened to Empire relatively recently and there’s nothing to really go on. The Doctor mentions Tegan at one point when complaining about characters arguing, so it could be in the Waters of Amsterdam gap. Agreed about Fallen Angels, it could probably go in the Waters gap too. Sidenote, Tim Bradley I notice you’ve put The Helliax Rift in the gap created by The Gathering. The problem with this is it’s kinda implied the Doctor can’t remember this part of his life well, for some reason, as the Sixth Doctor doesn’t pick up on hints sent by his past self in The Reaping. By contrast the Sixth Doctor fully recalls the events of Helliax in Hour of the Cybermen. As the cover of Helliax has the Doctor in his Season 21 outfit, might I suggest it could work just after And You Will Obey Me as another side trip before the Doctor went back to Little Hodcombe? Yeah I think Empire of the Racnoss was just put in that comics gap to keep it close to Fallen Angels. Personally I would agree that they both make way more sense sitting in the Amsterdam gap. We know that he gives up trying for Amsterdam for a while from The Burning and Diary of River Song, before trying to get there again and still failing to get there. So I would say that if in doubt solo stories go in the Amsterdam gap. I would probably go as far to say that the Comics gap shouldn’t be a solo gap in its own right, and I’d rather believe that Nyssa is in the same timezone as the Doctor, she’s just not in Stockbridge and thus not involved in the comics. Maybe she took a train to London and attended a conference while the Doctor spent a few weeks playing cricket. Perhaps this prompted their later lengthy stay in Autumn after Nyssa didn’t get to spend much time in Stockbridge before. It’s certainly a location the pair come back to often. I didn’t think of the issue with having The Helliax Rift in The Gathering gap. I’ve had it in the Awakening gap before but I’m not a huge fan of that because there isn’t really a gap there other than suggesting he might have gone on an additional solo trip after And You Will Obey Me, which I’d rather not do. But perhaps I’ll have to reconsider. It certainly needs to be at some point in Season 21 due to the costume on the cover, Alan Barnes saying on twitter that he felt like it was a later on story for the Fifth Doctor, and it being set in 1984. |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 11, 2020 14:55:16 GMT
Am going to listen to the 2021 MR 5th Dr stories shortly. Is there a recommended order?
Does Shadow of the Daleks fit in around the same time as Time Alone or is it a different period of Five travelling alone?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 11, 2020 15:05:43 GMT
Am going to listen to the 2021 MR 5th Dr stories shortly. Is there a recommended order? Does Shadow of the Daleks fit in around the same time as Time Alone or is it a different period of Five travelling alone? It can go in either or. He mentions Tegan a couple of times and also references Terileptils and Omega. There’s not much else to go on. I’m erring towards the Amsterdam gap right now but it could just as easily go in the Time Apart gap if you really wanted it to. |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 11, 2020 16:46:24 GMT
Am going to listen to the 2021 MR 5th Dr stories shortly. Is there a recommended order? Does Shadow of the Daleks fit in around the same time as Time Alone or is it a different period of Five travelling alone? It can go in either or. He mentions Tegan a couple of times and also references Terileptils and Omega. There’s not much else to go on. I’m erring towards the Amsterdam gap right now but it could just as easily go in the Time Apart gap if you really wanted it to. Thanks |
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Post by constonks on Nov 12, 2020 15:54:55 GMT
FWIW I threw it after And You Will Obey Me - that story has Tegan and Turlough in 1980s Little Hodcombe and the Doctor in the 2010s, so it's the latest Tegan gap in my opinion.
Amsterdam gap works fine too, though.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 13, 2020 12:25:13 GMT
FWIW I threw it after And You Will Obey Me - that story has Tegan and Turlough in 1980s Little Hodcombe and the Doctor in the 2010s, so it's the latest Tegan gap in my opinion. Amsterdam gap works fine too, though. Personally I don’t like that gap because it’s such a short hop for the Doctor I have difficultly believing that he didn’t go straight back to Little Hodcombe. Obviously stranger things have happened but that’s just my personal preference. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 3, 2021 15:53:56 GMT
{The Gates of Hell}
It’s explicitly after Time Crash. It does feel like the two Doctors were shocked that they were seeing each other again so soon, but theoretically it doesn’t have to be soon after Time Crash. A comment from the Tenth Doctor implies that Five is still travelling with Tegan. Honestly I reckon maybe the Amsterdam gap? It’s just the comfy go-to gap at this point. The Time Apart gap works just as well too though and isn’t that long after the Amsterdam gap anyway. |
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jun 3, 2021 17:03:31 GMT
The Kamelion Empire takes place immediately after Power Game and leads directly into The Five Doctors. How much does it lead in ? "The Crystal Bucephalus" is a diverson on the way to the Eye of Harmony, and ends with the console room completely destroyed (hence the refit)
It’s explicitly after Time Crash. It does feel like the two Doctors were shocked that they were seeing each other again so soon, but theoretically it doesn’t have to be soon after Time Crash. A comment from the Tenth Doctor implies that Five is still travelling with Tegan. Honestly I reckon maybe the Amsterdam gap? It’s just the comfy go-to gap at this point. The Time Apart gap works just as well too though and isn’t that long after the Amsterdam gap anyway.
{Spoiler}
It's obviously been a while after "Time Crash", since htey go through the whole "didnt we meet" business, and it is a considerable length of time since the sonic screwdriver was destroyed in "The Visitation". It's probably before "The Five Doctors" since nobody cites that as an obvious precedent. "Earthshock" is also not cited, so presumably that's some time ago (otherwise 5 woldn't be havnig so much 'fun'). |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 3, 2021 17:51:50 GMT
The Kamelion Empire takes place immediately after Power Game and leads directly into The Five Doctors. How much does it lead in ? "The Crystal Bucephalus" is a diverson on the way to the Eye of Harmony, and ends with the console room completely destroyed (hence the refit)
[quote timestamp="1622735636" source="/post/296605/thread"
Kamelion gets shunted off into a cupboard, while the Doctor, Tegan and Turlough actually arrive at the Eye of Orion. I believe it ends with Turlough sketching, so where The Five Doctors begins.
The Crystal Bucephalus works best before the BF trilogy as they all run together directly into The Five Doctors, and Devil in the Mist opens with a console refit. |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 23, 2021 13:12:29 GMT
Much mention seems to be made here of the so-called Amsterdam gap, so I thought I'd ask how well do The Elite and The Waters of Amsterdam fit together?
In The Elite Nyssa says:
"I'm so glad you let us have a few days off in Amsterdam to explore"
The Doctor replies:
"Well there were still beds in the hostel and I did have some loose ends to tie up on Gallifrey and, um, elsewhere."
It is fairly clear from this and subsequent dialogue that the Dr was gone for a few days, leaving Tegan and Nyssa alone. However in Waters the Doctor is gone for no more than a few seconds at the end. It is possible that the few days off were before Waters started but that doesn't really work very well because The Elite clearly implies the Dr was absent while the 2 girls were exploring.
I think it would have worked better if Waters had started with the Dr absent and Tegan and Nyssa at the end of their few days off, then the Dr returns and the story gets going.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 23, 2021 20:53:14 GMT
Much mention seems to be made here of the so-called Amsterdam gap, so I thought I'd ask how well do The Elite and The Waters of Amsterdam fit together? In The Elite Nyssa says: "I'm so glad you let us have a few days off in Amsterdam to explore" The Doctor replies: "Well there were still beds in the hostel and I did have some loose ends to tie up on Gallifrey and, um, elsewhere." It is fairly clear from this and subsequent dialogue that the Dr was gone for a few days, leaving Tegan and Nyssa alone. However in Waters the Doctor is gone for no more than a few seconds at the end. It is possible that the few days off were before Waters started but that doesn't really work very well because The Elite clearly implies the Dr was absent while the 2 girls were exploring. I think it would have worked better if Waters had started with the Dr absent and Tegan and Nyssa at the end of their few days off, then the Dr returns and the story gets going. Waters picks up from the exact moment Arc of Infinity ends so there’s no gap before then. John Dorney wrote The Burning Prince and The Elite to line up with Omega and Arc of Infinity, so it’s a shame that the later Waters of Amsterdam doesn’t line up. |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Jun 24, 2021 9:35:10 GMT
Much mention seems to be made here of the so-called Amsterdam gap, so I thought I'd ask how well do The Elite and The Waters of Amsterdam fit together? In The Elite Nyssa says: "I'm so glad you let us have a few days off in Amsterdam to explore" The Doctor replies: "Well there were still beds in the hostel and I did have some loose ends to tie up on Gallifrey and, um, elsewhere." It is fairly clear from this and subsequent dialogue that the Dr was gone for a few days, leaving Tegan and Nyssa alone. However in Waters the Doctor is gone for no more than a few seconds at the end. It is possible that the few days off were before Waters started but that doesn't really work very well because The Elite clearly implies the Dr was absent while the 2 girls were exploring. I think it would have worked better if Waters had started with the Dr absent and Tegan and Nyssa at the end of their few days off, then the Dr returns and the story gets going. Waters picks up from the exact moment Arc of Infinity ends so there’s no gap before then. John Dorney wrote The Burning Prince and The Elite to line up with Omega and Arc of Infinity, so it’s a shame that the later Waters of Amsterdam doesn’t line up. I think there is a little wiggle room between Arc and Waters. In the script it says it follows seamlessly from Arc and Nyssa's opening line in Waters is "So how exactly did you get the sack Tegan?". As written that could follow directly from the dialogue in Arc, but the way Sarah Sutton says it sounds as if it is not the first time Nyssa has asked the question. It implies Tegan has evaded answering so Nyssa is asking again. Admittedly it is a bit of a stretch, but I think there is just about scope for a gap between Arc and Waters, authorial intent notwithstanding. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 11:20:08 GMT
Waters picks up from the exact moment Arc of Infinity ends so there’s no gap before then. John Dorney wrote The Burning Prince and The Elite to line up with Omega and Arc of Infinity, so it’s a shame that the later Waters of Amsterdam doesn’t line up. I think there is a little wiggle room between Arc and Waters. In the script it says it follows seamlessly from Arc and Nyssa's opening line in Waters is "So how exactly did you get the sack Tegan?". As written that could follow directly from the dialogue in Arc, but the way Sarah Sutton says it sounds as if it is not the first time Nyssa has asked the question. It implies Tegan has evaded answering so Nyssa is asking again. Admittedly it is a bit of a stretch, but I think there is just about scope for a gap between Arc and Waters, authorial intent notwithstanding. You know... Looking at it that way, similar shenanigans could be wrangled for The Waters of Amsterdam and The Elite, too. I can see the Doctor taking the TARDIS up and away again almost immediately after his return from that "little errand for the Time Lords" to prove that he really was missed. Nyssa and Tegan get to spend a little bit of time in Amsterdam and the Doctor comes back a few days later, chastened for his experiences. It'd also give enough of a narrative gap for Tegan's " What the hell have you done to my room?!" in The Elite, where she'd hyped herself up for a return to the TARDIS as it was. Gotten excited for it. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 8, 2021 22:03:21 GMT
{The Lost Resort & Other Stories }
So it picks up right after Madquake. It still puts out vibes that it goes between Earthshock and Time-Flight and the cast even suggest this placement in the extras.
Marc departs at the end of Nightmare of the Daleks, as we expected, The Doctor, Nyssa and Tegan just continue travelling on. Nyssa is familiar with the Daleks so it’s definitely after The Mutant Phase. The skirt around the issue for Tegan much like in The Elite by not having her meet them. |
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Post by ollychops on Sept 13, 2021 18:21:29 GMT
{The Lost Resort & Other Stories }
So it picks up right after Madquake. It still puts out vibes that it goes between Earthshock and Time-Flight and the cast even suggest this placement in the extras.
Marc departs at the end of Nightmare of the Daleks, as we expected, The Doctor, Nyssa and Tegan just continue travelling on. Nyssa is familiar with the Daleks so it’s definitely after The Mutant Phase. The skirt around the issue for Tegan much like in The Elite by not having her meet them. {Spoiler}
Hmm... I like the idea of these being reasonably soon after Earthshock but it doesn't really work given Nyssa recognises the Daleks but only met them after Tegan leaves in Time-Flight. |
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 13, 2021 23:34:00 GMT
You’d have to perform a miracle to make a gap between Earthshock and Time-Flight anyway.
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