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Post by xlozdob on Oct 11, 2019 10:03:25 GMT
Perhaps Museum Peace could go after Rage of the Time Lords, and, even after the memory wipe, he has that lingering intention of joining the War more directly.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 20, 2019 10:35:40 GMT
An Ocean of Sawdust appears to take place around the same time as Master of Callous, pre-War but it’s already basically broken out. The Doctor mentions that he keeps getting caught up in minor skirmishes that are invading real time and he wants to avoid it for as long as he can, and he feels as though these skirmishes are heralding a “greater storm” to come. So I’d probably place it directly between Ravenous and the Titan Comics Eighth Doctor Series. Also, something interesting I noticed was that it appears Lance Parkin intended for Benny's Story to come at some point after The Gallifrey Chronicles rather than in The Vampire Science gap. lanceparkin.wordpress.com/doctor-who/doctor-who-chronologically/
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Oct 21, 2019 12:45:49 GMT
oooooooo
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 24, 2019 11:47:06 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix.
The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing.
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Post by mark687 on Oct 24, 2019 12:30:28 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing. That's Cat Amongst the Pigeons territory!
Regards
mark687
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 24, 2019 13:59:52 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing. Is that illustration in the story? I didn't know this book was illustrated. On the cover it's one of the Dark Eyes promo pictures. Also, unless the costume is described in the story itself, I wouldn't count it as "canon".
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 24, 2019 14:45:30 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing. Is that illustration in the story? I didn't know this book was illustrated. On the cover it's one of the Dark Eyes promo pictures. Also, unless the costume is described in the story itself, I wouldn't count it as "canon". Each story has an illustration before it. The one for this story is of Eight with short hair in his Time War costume, and Fitz surrounded by Neanderthals. The only part of the costume that is actually described in the story though is that hes wearing a green coat.
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Post by smith11 on Oct 24, 2019 20:17:34 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing. I hate to be that person but I would say the eighth doctor seems to be illustrated as if he is a cross of his TV movie costume and his dark eyes costume, but odd but wouldn’t say it’s his time war outfit
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Oct 24, 2019 21:25:06 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing. I hate to be that person but I would say the eighth doctor seems to be illustrated as if he is a cross of his TV movie costume and his dark eyes costume, but odd but wouldn’t say it’s his time war outfit Nah, his hair looks a bit different than in Night of the Doctor, but that’s definitely the same costume.
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 25, 2019 9:59:26 GMT
Is that illustration in the story? I didn't know this book was illustrated. On the cover it's one of the Dark Eyes promo pictures. Also, unless the costume is described in the story itself, I wouldn't count it as "canon". Each story has an illustration before it. The one for this story is of Eight with short hair in his Time War costume, and Fitz surrounded by Neanderthals. The only part of the costume that is actually described in the story though is that hes wearing a green coat. So, yeah, I wouldn't say the illustration holds any canonicity, but it could be explained as him wearing his TV movie clothes except he's trying a new belt and a handkerchief around his neck, to spice things up a bit (lol). And the hair, idk, did he have it cut at any point during the novels? Maybe he did from time to time.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 21, 2019 23:53:17 GMT
Each story has an illustration before it. The one for this story is of Eight with short hair in his Time War costume, and Fitz surrounded by Neanderthals. The only part of the costume that is actually described in the story though is that hes wearing a green coat. So, yeah, I wouldn't say the illustration holds any canonicity, but it could be explained as him wearing his TV movie clothes except he's trying a new belt and a handkerchief around his neck, to spice things up a bit (lol). And the hair, idk, did he have it cut at any point during the novels? Maybe he did from time to time. The Doctor in the books doesn't consistently stick to the TV movie look, as I recall. (I've always found the concept that the Doctor would never change his clothes very odd and much prefer a varied Pertwee/Capaldi-esque wardrobe to the JNT "costumes.") I don't think the illustration is definitively the Night of the Doctor/Time War look, but perhaps just another of his costume variations?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 25, 2019 16:24:26 GMT
The Interference gap doesn’t actually work.
The proposition is that the Doctor might have left Fitz in the remembrance tank and not brought Compassion with him yet and then went off travelling for an unspecficied period until he visited Foreman's world and recounted the events of Interference, before reuniting with Fitz and Compassion at some point afterwards in time for The Blue Angel, with the Charley and possibly Izzy stories coming in this gap.
However, we see Fitz actually get re-remembered in Interference, and it would be a stretch to say that the Doctor popped off somewhere while that was happening. Further and more importantly, at the beginning of the "What happened on Foreman’s World" segment of The Blue Angel, the Doctor describes the events of Interference as happening months ago, so you can’t his years with Charley/C'rizz or year with Izzy in that gap. The short story "Toy Story" also establishes that Fitz and Compassion were waiting in the TARDIS for him during his visit to Foreman's World.
So really, even if the Doctor did pop off and have solo adventures while Fitz was being re-remembered, there’s only a couple of months space until we know for a fact that the Doctor, Fitz and Compassion are all together again.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 27, 2019 6:39:51 GMT
The Interference gap doesn’t actually work. The proposition is that the Doctor might have left Fitz in the remembrance tank and not brought Compassion with him yet and then went off travelling for an unspecficied period until he visited Foreman's world and recounted the events of Interference, before reuniting with Fitz and Compassion at some point afterwards in time for The Blue Angel, with the Charley and possibly Izzy stories coming in this gap. However, we see Fitz actually get re-remembered in Interference, and it would be a stretch to say that the Doctor popped off somewhere while that was happening. Further and more importantly, at the beginning of the "What happened on Foreman’s World" segment of The Blue Angel, the Doctor describes the events of Interference as happening months ago, so you can’t his years with Charley/C'rizz or year with Izzy in that gap. The short story "Toy Story" also establishes that Fitz and Compassion were waiting in the TARDIS for him during his visit to Foreman's World. So really, even if the Doctor did pop off and have solo adventures while Fitz was being re-remembered, there’s only a couple of months space until we know for a fact that the Doctor, Fitz and Compassion are all together again. The trouble is I'm not convinced the Vampire Science/Eight Doctors gap works either – at least, not for the whole Charlie run. Do we put all the BF audios post-EDAs, then? If one assumes a total undoing of the Second War in Heaven – which we can tie to Enemy Lines and Brax's meddling – then the Gallifrey/Romana issues don't apply anymore and the only issue is that the Charlie audios don't feel like they take place that far into his timeline. Is there any plot reason we can't have a timeline roughly like this: TV Movie Eight Doctors Comics EDAs (War in Heaven undone post TGC) Big Finish audios Night of the Doctor The only alternative I can see is "alternate timelines," which I've never liked.
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Post by sherlock on Nov 27, 2019 11:15:13 GMT
I know ‘alternate timeline’ theories aren’t massively popular, but this is the one I keep in mind.
So the first timeline is roughly- Movie The Eight Doctors -Sam is dropped off- The Dying Days Radio Times Comics Izzy Sinclair Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series (Weapon of Choice-Ascension, then Intervention Earth after the unaltered version of Enemy Lines’ events) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science Rest of EDAs
I know the Vampire Science gap is a stretch, but we know the Doctor’s memories of some of this period are tampered with by Davros (which may have also prevented him remembering to pick up Sam) and as the Divergent Universe has no real concept of time to measure the Doctor might not count the time spent in there. Equally he could have just rough estimated for Sam’s benefit and doesn’t really know precisely how long he was away. The DWM comics with Izzy have to be before Zagreus as Rassilon is shown to still be active in the Matrix, which he isn’t after Zagreus (and based on the great lengths the Time Lords have to go to resurrect him in Desperate Measures)
So the next timeline is created when Braxiatel travels back in time in Enemy Lines- Movie The Eight Doctors -Sam is dropped off- The Dying Days Radio Times Comics Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series (Weapon of Choice-Enemy Lines) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science EDAs-except all the War in Heaven related events Destrii Lucie Miller Tamsin Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Ravenous Time War
So this timeline alteration has big implications for the EDAs. With the War in Heaven totally erased (thanks Brax!), Alien Bodies, Interference, The Taking of Planet 5, The Shadows of Avalon, The Ancestor Cell (and the subsequent exile on Earth arc) and The Gallifrey Chronicles cannot happen. This means the Doctor travels with Sam and meets Fitz (virtually unchanged events), she leaves in unknown circumstances, the Doctor and Fitz travel on and perhaps meet Anji and Trix in somewhat different circumstances. They all depart eventually, paving the way for the Doctor to be reunited with Destrii and go on to meet Lucie, Tamsin, Molly, Liv, Helen and eventually get embroiled in a Time War.
I know alternate timelines aren’t terribly popular, but as it’s based on what we actually see Brax do in Enemy Lines (averting Romana regenerating into her third incarnation) I think it works.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 27, 2019 11:25:12 GMT
I know ‘alternate timeline’ theories aren’t massively popular, but this is the one I keep in mind. So the first timeline is roughly- Movie The Eight Doctors-Sam is dropped off- The Dying DaysRadio Times Comics Izzy Sinclair Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series ( Weapon of Choice- Ascension, then Intervention Earth after the unaltered version of Enemy Lines’ events) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science Rest of EDAs I know the Vampire Science gap is a stretch, but we know the Doctor’s memories of some of this period are tampered with by Davros (which may have also prevented him remembering to pick up Sam) and as the Divergent Universe has no real concept of time to measure the Doctor might not count the time spent in there. Equally he could have just rough estimated for Sam’s benefit and doesn’t really know precisely how long he was away. The DWM comics with Izzy have to be before Zagreus as Rassilon is shown to still be active in the Matrix, which he isn’t after Zagreus (and based on the great lengths the Time Lords have to go to resurrect him in Desperate Measures) So the next timeline is created when Braxiatel travels back in time in Enemy Lines- Movie The Eight Doctors
-Sam is dropped off- The Dying DaysRadio Times Comics Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series ( Weapon of Choice-Enemy Lines) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science EDAs-except all the War in Heaven related events Destrii Lucie Miller Tamsin Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Ravenous Time War So this timeline alteration has big implications for the EDAs. With the War in Heaven totally erased (thanks Brax!), Alien Bodies, Interference, The Taking of Planet 5, The Shadows of Avalon, The Ancestor Cell (and the subsequent exile on Earth arc) and The Gallifrey Chronicles cannot happen. This means the Doctor travels with Sam and meets Fitz (virtually unchanged events), she leaves in unknown circumstances, the Doctor and Fitz travel on and perhaps meet Anji and Trix in somewhat different circumstances. They all depart eventually, paving the way for the Doctor to be reunited with Destrii and go on to meet Lucie, Tamsin, Molly, Liv, Helen and eventually get embroiled in a Time War. I know alternate timelines aren’t terribly popular, but as it’s based on what we actually see Brax do in Enemy Lines (averting Romana regenerating into her third incarnation) I think it works. His memory of the pre-Charley stuff is tampered, he still spends about three years with Charley when he spent the three years in the Vampire Science gap travelling on and off with Sam, with the year long separation while Sam was at the Greenpeace rally indicated to be the longest time apart. Storm Warning - Neverland is 6 months The Next Life says they’ve been in the DU for 6 months Then the Girl Who Never Was has Charley say they’ve been together for about 3 years so that’s a pretty wide gap after they’ve left the DU.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 27, 2019 12:07:49 GMT
The Interference gap doesn’t actually work. The proposition is that the Doctor might have left Fitz in the remembrance tank and not brought Compassion with him yet and then went off travelling for an unspecficied period until he visited Foreman's world and recounted the events of Interference, before reuniting with Fitz and Compassion at some point afterwards in time for The Blue Angel, with the Charley and possibly Izzy stories coming in this gap. However, we see Fitz actually get re-remembered in Interference, and it would be a stretch to say that the Doctor popped off somewhere while that was happening. Further and more importantly, at the beginning of the "What happened on Foreman’s World" segment of The Blue Angel, the Doctor describes the events of Interference as happening months ago, so you can’t his years with Charley/C'rizz or year with Izzy in that gap. The short story "Toy Story" also establishes that Fitz and Compassion were waiting in the TARDIS for him during his visit to Foreman's World. So really, even if the Doctor did pop off and have solo adventures while Fitz was being re-remembered, there’s only a couple of months space until we know for a fact that the Doctor, Fitz and Compassion are all together again. The trouble is I'm not convinced the Vampire Science/Eight Doctors gap works either – at least, not for the whole Charlie run. Do we put all the BF audios post-EDAs, then? If one assumes a total undoing of the Second War in Heaven – which we can tie to Enemy Lines and Brax's meddling – then the Gallifrey/Romana issues don't apply anymore and the only issue is that the Charlie audios don't feel like they take place that far into his timeline. Is there any plot reason we can't have a timeline roughly like this: TV Movie Eight Doctors Comics EDAs (War in Heaven undone post TGC) Big Finish audios Night of the Doctor The only alternative I can see is "alternate timelines," which I've never liked. This is pretty much the timeline I’ve always insisted on, although I do flip-flop on the placement of the comics. Personally I don’t see the issue with the Charley audios taking place that far into his timeline, we don’t know how long he was around before he met Charley, we know he spent either years (suggested by Mary's Story) or weeks (suggested by Army of Death) with Mary, and then an undocumented amount of time with Samson and Gemma, which was probably quite a while to be fair. And he seems exactly the same in the Terror Firma flashbacks as he is in Storm Warning and the rest. To me, the Eighth Doctor always seems destined to revert to type anyway, no matter what he goes through. The difference between the Leather Eight and Starship of Theseus Eight shows this.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Nov 27, 2019 12:33:38 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing.
Haven't read this yet, but can I suggest that the status of their relationship indicates as much, perhaps even more so, where in the eighth Doctor's timeline the story takes place? If they are presented as very much an item, it must be post-Gallifrey Chronicles, and since they were almost certainly going to leave the TARDIS following that adventure there's no reason why this can't be a later Doctor. On the other hand, if they're not together, it must be during their travels with him, presumably after a trip to the barbers where for some reason they refused to give him a shave as well....
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 27, 2019 12:56:20 GMT
In The Target Storybook, the Eighth Doctor story features Fitz and Trix. The Doctor is also illustrated in his Night of the Doctor costume, and there’s some Time War foreshadowing.
Haven't read this yet, but can I suggest that the status of their relationship indicates as much, perhaps even more so, where in the eighth Doctor's timeline the story takes place? If they are presented as very much an item, it must be post-Gallifrey Chronicles, and since they were almost certainly going to leave the TARDIS following that adventure there's no reason why this can't be a later Doctor. On the other hand, if they're not together, it must be during their travels with him, presumably after a trip to the barbers where for some reason they refused to give him a shave as well....
It’s not really made clear whether they’re together as The Doctor/Fitz and Trix spend most of the story separated. The Doctor appears to have his memories though, as he knows the laws of Time (which he doesn’t know in The Gallifrey Chronicles) and recalls his friendship with Harry Houdini.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 27, 2019 12:59:03 GMT
I know ‘alternate timeline’ theories aren’t massively popular, but this is the one I keep in mind. So the first timeline is roughly- Movie The Eight Doctors-Sam is dropped off- The Dying DaysRadio Times Comics Izzy Sinclair Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series ( Weapon of Choice- Ascension, then Intervention Earth after the unaltered version of Enemy Lines’ events) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science Rest of EDAs I know the Vampire Science gap is a stretch, but we know the Doctor’s memories of some of this period are tampered with by Davros (which may have also prevented him remembering to pick up Sam) and as the Divergent Universe has no real concept of time to measure the Doctor might not count the time spent in there. Equally he could have just rough estimated for Sam’s benefit and doesn’t really know precisely how long he was away. The DWM comics with Izzy have to be before Zagreus as Rassilon is shown to still be active in the Matrix, which he isn’t after Zagreus (and based on the great lengths the Time Lords have to go to resurrect him in Desperate Measures) So the next timeline is created when Braxiatel travels back in time in Enemy Lines- Movie The Eight Doctors
-Sam is dropped off- The Dying DaysRadio Times Comics Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series ( Weapon of Choice-Enemy Lines) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science EDAs-except all the War in Heaven related events Destrii Lucie Miller Tamsin Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Ravenous Time War So this timeline alteration has big implications for the EDAs. With the War in Heaven totally erased (thanks Brax!), Alien Bodies, Interference, The Taking of Planet 5, The Shadows of Avalon, The Ancestor Cell (and the subsequent exile on Earth arc) and The Gallifrey Chronicles cannot happen. This means the Doctor travels with Sam and meets Fitz (virtually unchanged events), she leaves in unknown circumstances, the Doctor and Fitz travel on and perhaps meet Anji and Trix in somewhat different circumstances. They all depart eventually, paving the way for the Doctor to be reunited with Destrii and go on to meet Lucie, Tamsin, Molly, Liv, Helen and eventually get embroiled in a Time War. I know alternate timelines aren’t terribly popular, but as it’s based on what we actually see Brax do in Enemy Lines (averting Romana regenerating into her third incarnation) I think it works. His memory of the pre-Charley stuff is tampered, he still spends about three years with Charley when he spent the three years in the Vampire Science gap travelling on and off with Sam, with the year long separation while Sam was at the Greenpeace rally indicated to be the longest time apart. Storm Warning - Neverland is 6 months The Next Life says they’ve been in the DU for 6 months Then the Girl Who Never Was has Charley say they’ve been together for about 3 years so that’s a pretty wide gap after they’ve left the DU. So there's about 2 years worth of adventures for 8/Charley/C'rizz then, Post DU?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 27, 2019 13:19:55 GMT
His memory of the pre-Charley stuff is tampered, he still spends about three years with Charley when he spent the three years in the Vampire Science gap travelling on and off with Sam, with the year long separation while Sam was at the Greenpeace rally indicated to be the longest time apart. Storm Warning - Neverland is 6 months The Next Life says they’ve been in the DU for 6 months Then the Girl Who Never Was has Charley say they’ve been together for about 3 years so that’s a pretty wide gap after they’ve left the DU. So there's about 2 years worth of adventures for 8/Charley/C'rizz then, Post DU? Dunno if they intended it that way or if whoever wrote The Girl Who Never Was just didn’t know the timeframes given in Neverland and The Next Life, which is most likely.
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