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Post by xlozdob on Nov 27, 2019 13:47:24 GMT
I know ‘alternate timeline’ theories aren’t massively popular, but this is the one I keep in mind. So the first timeline is roughly- Movie The Eight Doctors-Sam is dropped off- The Dying DaysRadio Times Comics Izzy Sinclair Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series ( Weapon of Choice- Ascension, then Intervention Earth after the unaltered version of Enemy Lines’ events) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science Rest of EDAs I know the Vampire Science gap is a stretch, but we know the Doctor’s memories of some of this period are tampered with by Davros (which may have also prevented him remembering to pick up Sam) and as the Divergent Universe has no real concept of time to measure the Doctor might not count the time spent in there. Equally he could have just rough estimated for Sam’s benefit and doesn’t really know precisely how long he was away. The DWM comics with Izzy have to be before Zagreus as Rassilon is shown to still be active in the Matrix, which he isn’t after Zagreus (and based on the great lengths the Time Lords have to go to resurrect him in Desperate Measures) So the next timeline is created when Braxiatel travels back in time in Enemy Lines- Movie The Eight Doctors
-Sam is dropped off- The Dying DaysRadio Times Comics Samson and Gemma Mary Shelley Charley Gallifrey Series ( Weapon of Choice-Enemy Lines) Charley & C’rizz -Sam is picked up- Vampire Science EDAs-except all the War in Heaven related events Destrii Lucie Miller Tamsin Dark Eyes Doom Coalition Ravenous Time War So this timeline alteration has big implications for the EDAs. With the War in Heaven totally erased (thanks Brax!), Alien Bodies, Interference, The Taking of Planet 5, The Shadows of Avalon, The Ancestor Cell (and the subsequent exile on Earth arc) and The Gallifrey Chronicles cannot happen. This means the Doctor travels with Sam and meets Fitz (virtually unchanged events), she leaves in unknown circumstances, the Doctor and Fitz travel on and perhaps meet Anji and Trix in somewhat different circumstances. They all depart eventually, paving the way for the Doctor to be reunited with Destrii and go on to meet Lucie, Tamsin, Molly, Liv, Helen and eventually get embroiled in a Time War. I know alternate timelines aren’t terribly popular, but as it’s based on what we actually see Brax do in Enemy Lines (averting Romana regenerating into her third incarnation) I think it works. I really like this interpretation. It does feature alternate timelines but because of an specific event we know, unlike for example some say for the 7th Doctor (VNAs vs BF). Plus, we know something like that happens again to him later on in Starship of Theseus, also because of Time Lord meddling. Could it be that Brax undoing Intervention Earth actually caused the Second War in Heaven which he then changed again but ultimately ended up manifesting anyways as the Last Great Time War?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 28, 2019 0:12:17 GMT
I suppose you could have none of the Audios happen at all in the original timeline, except Intervention Earth with Enemy Lines then beginning the new timeline where the audios have happened the novels are altered as if you remove Faction Paradox and the War in Heaven from the equation, that pretty much wipes out the Doctor's travels with Sam. In fact we know that blonde Sam is removed from the timeline at some point after The Scarlet Empress, and if we assume that she was removed from the timeline after The Taint as well but before Unnatural History, then that wipes Blonde Sam from the timeline completely.
Then you’d have Solo Eight/Fitz and presumably because Time is wibbly wobbly stuff, rather than Fitz just disappearing, I’d imagine that much like what happens later when Gallifrey is destroyed, their memories just go a bit hazy about Sam and they start to remember a version of events where Sam wasn’t around.
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Post by xlozdob on Nov 28, 2019 19:58:39 GMT
I suppose you could have none of the Audios happen at all in the original timeline, except Intervention Earth with Enemy Lines then beginning the new timeline where the audios have happened the novels are altered as if you remove Faction Paradox and the War in Heaven from the equation, that pretty much wipes out the Doctor's travels with Sam. In fact we know that blonde Sam is removed from the timeline at some point after The Scarlet Empress, and if we assume that she was removed from the timeline after The Taint as well but before Unnatural History, then that wipes Blonde Sam from the timeline completely. Then you’d have Solo Eight/Fitz and presumably because Time is wibbly wobbly stuff, rather than Fitz just disappearing, I’d imagine that much like what happens later when Gallifrey is destroyed, their memories just go a bit hazy about Sam and they start to remember a version of events where Sam wasn’t around. Would be amazing if that were to be explored in an Eighth/Fitz boxset a la Further Adventures of Lucie Miller, tying it in with Brax's actions and reconciling the 8DAs and Gallifrey timelines to boot. A guy can dream lol.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 29, 2019 14:35:13 GMT
Maybe the Eighth Doctor should get a visit from the Watchmaker?
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 29, 2019 21:02:36 GMT
I personally prefer to treat all the novels as still happening for the Doctor, even if they don't for Gallifrey/the rest of the Universe. The timeline changed, but he can still remember everything. Well, until he gets his weekly amnesia, that is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 1:51:23 GMT
I personally prefer to treat all the novels as still happening for the Doctor, even if they don't for Gallifrey/the rest of the Universe. The timeline changed, but he can still remember everything. Well, until he gets his weekly amnesia, that is. Random thought on that: A salicylic acid derivitive like aspirin is apparently deadly to Time Lords. It acts as a poison. Maybe a concentrated dose of nitrous oxide, the sedative used for the operating table, prior to the regeneration permanently affected the Eighth Doctor's memory centres. In the same way as, say, the spectrox in the Fifth Doctor's blood affected the outcome of the Sixth Doctor?
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Post by sherlock on Nov 30, 2019 2:19:51 GMT
I personally prefer to treat all the novels as still happening for the Doctor, even if they don't for Gallifrey/the rest of the Universe. The timeline changed, but he can still remember everything. Well, until he gets his weekly amnesia, that is. I think it’s pretty well established that the Doctor can recall alternate timelines to an extent. Jubilee implies the Doctor and Evelyn will dream of the fates of their alternate selves, the Seventh Doctor has enough awareness of Klein’s timeline to infer what his alternate self had arranged in Klein’s Story, the Tenth Doctor explains an entire timeline that had been erased from history in The Stone Rose and the Eleventh Doctor evidently retains memories of Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. I guess it’s just a Time Lord ability, Romana and Leela also mention dreaming of alternate lives at the end of the temporal shenanigans of Enemy Lines. There’s also certain occasions where the Doctor doesn’t seem to recall alternate Timelines all that well, (none of the Doctors can seem to remember why they arrived at Bob Dovie’s house at the end of The Light at the End, his memories become quite confused over the events on the Theseus due to overlapping timelines there in The Starship of Theseus) so perhaps it’s like dreams where some are remembered with more clarity than others. So it’s likely even if the EDAs as documented didn’t occur in the eventual dominant timeline, the Doctor would still have some awareness of their events.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 30, 2019 13:29:40 GMT
Then there's my Short Trip story that attempts to give an explanation lmao
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Post by xlozdob on Jan 28, 2020 13:40:55 GMT
Interesting theory I came across last night on tumblr. It basically says that the Charley audios take place after Lucie leaves the Doctor in Death in Blackpool. intuitive-revelations.tumblr.com/post/182085290736/a-small-eighth-doctor-timeline-theory-based-onWhat do you guys think? I think it, at least, makes sense. Do any of you know of any reference that would make this impossible? Also, is there mention of Mary Shelley in the EDAs? Cause I'd put Mary's Story to Shada in there as well, after An Earthly Child.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 28, 2020 13:56:59 GMT
Interesting theory I came across last night on tumblr. It basically says that the Charley audios take place after Lucie leaves the Doctor in Death in Blackpool. intuitive-revelations.tumblr.com/post/182085290736/a-small-eighth-doctor-timeline-theory-based-onWhat do you guys think? I think it, at least, makes sense. Do any of you know of any reference that would make this impossible? Also, is there mention of Mary Shelley in the EDAs? Cause I'd put Mary's Story to Shada in there as well, after An Earthly Child. I’ve seen it before, and I really really dislike it. Props to the writer for putting it together, but I don’t like the theory one bit. I don’t think there’s any references that make it impossible. I’m fairly sure the only reference to the Charley era in the Lucie era is the pet vortisaur reference, which this theory writes off as a reference to his time at the academy. The first Mary Shelley reference is in Shada, and I believe all the others are in the Eighth Doctor MR. I don’t think there’s any anywhere else.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 28, 2020 14:10:50 GMT
Interesting theory I came across last night on tumblr. It basically says that the Charley audios take place after Lucie leaves the Doctor in Death in Blackpool. intuitive-revelations.tumblr.com/post/182085290736/a-small-eighth-doctor-timeline-theory-based-onWhat do you guys think? I think it, at least, makes sense. Do any of you know of any reference that would make this impossible? Also, is there mention of Mary Shelley in the EDAs? Cause I'd put Mary's Story to Shada in there as well, after An Earthly Child. I’ve seen it before, and I really really dislike it. Props to the writer for putting it together, but I don’t like the theory one bit. I don’t think there’s any references that make it impossible. I’m fairly sure the only reference to the Charley era in the Lucie era is the pet vortisaur reference, which this theory writes off as a reference to his time at the academy. The first Mary Shelley reference is in Shada, and I believe all the others are in the Eighth Doctor MR. I don’t think there’s any anywhere else. Scraping the barrel a bit, but can one argue that the Dr says his companions' names in chronological order in Night of the Doctor? Doesn't explain why Samson, Gemima, Mary, Liv, Helen, Bliss, etc aren't namechecked though ...
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 28, 2020 14:25:47 GMT
Interesting theory I came across last night on tumblr. It basically says that the Charley audios take place after Lucie leaves the Doctor in Death in Blackpool. intuitive-revelations.tumblr.com/post/182085290736/a-small-eighth-doctor-timeline-theory-based-onWhat do you guys think? I think it, at least, makes sense. Do any of you know of any reference that would make this impossible? Also, is there mention of Mary Shelley in the EDAs? Cause I'd put Mary's Story to Shada in there as well, after An Earthly Child. The Mary Shelley Trilogy namechecks Samson and Gemma who are just before Charley. Doesnt make it impossible for this theory though
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Post by antartiks on Jan 28, 2020 14:51:46 GMT
Eight is way more cynical and harsh in the EDAs, than he is in the Main Range stories. I always imagined he became more bitter due to Charley seemingly abandoning him. I don't think this theory is plausible at all.
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Post by xlozdob on Jan 28, 2020 15:30:10 GMT
Eight is way more cynical and harsh in the EDAs, than he is in the Main Range stories. I always imagined he became more bitter due to Charley seemingly abandoning him. I don't think this theory is plausible at all. According to this theory, Lucie would be after the book EDAs and the DWM strips, so one could argue it could be because of something in those. But apart from that, we all know how consistent BF is with, for example, Ace's characterisation, so I don't think that should be a problem. I’ve seen it before, and I really really dislike it. Props to the writer for putting it together, but I don’t like the theory one bit. I don't think this theory is plausible at all. Any specific reason why?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 28, 2020 15:37:31 GMT
Mainly because it puts the Charley and Lucie stories out of its intended order. And I feel like it’s just a stretch messing about with all these random dates just to justify syncing the Doctor and Gallifrey together.
Plus it doesn’t really make a huge amount of sense to me that the Doctor went off and had loads of other companions between Lucie and Tamsin.
It’s one of those things where I can’t argue really that it’s wrong because it’s ambiguous, but it really doesn’t sit well with me. As far as I’m concerned, the Big Finish audios are all in release order (except revisitstions and Mary Shelley) right at the end of the Eighth Doctor’s timeline.
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Post by xlozdob on Jan 30, 2020 18:24:08 GMT
I get it. I was just curious.
New question. The Scent of Blood? Has anyone listened to it yet? Where does it fit? Could it be before Charlie? Between her and Lucie? After Lucie?
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 30, 2020 18:59:21 GMT
I get it. I was just curious. New question. The Scent of Blood? Has anyone listened to it yet? Where does it fit? Could it be before Charlie? Between her and Lucie? After Lucie? I’ve listened to half of it. I think it’s in the generic bbc release gap, better known as the Vampire Science gap. Or if you're audio only, then between the TV Movie and Samson and Gemma. It’s probably apt that it goes before Vampire Science, so the Eighth Doctor has some vampire hunting experience already. Generally speaking, it could probably go anywhere before Dark Eyes depending on your preference. It’s got its own unique theme tune, so maybe it should sit apart from the Bf releases, idk.
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Post by xlozdob on Jan 30, 2020 19:44:16 GMT
I get it. I was just curious. New question. The Scent of Blood? Has anyone listened to it yet? Where does it fit? Could it be before Charlie? Between her and Lucie? After Lucie? I’ve listened to half of it. I think it’s in the generic bbc release gap, better known as the Vampire Science gap. Or if you're audio only, then between the TV Movie and Samson and Gemma. It’s probably apt that it goes before Vampire Science, so the Eighth Doctor has some vampire hunting experience already. Generally speaking, it could probably go anywhere before Dark Eyes depending on your preference. It’s got its own unique theme tune, so maybe it should sit apart from the Bf releases, idk. The "BBC gap" works for me. Interesting to know it has a unique arrangement of the theme.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jan 30, 2020 22:07:34 GMT
Interesting theory I came across last night on tumblr. It basically says that the Charley audios take place after Lucie leaves the Doctor in Death in Blackpool. Interesting ideas, but basic flaws. I don't know where Lance Parkin has got the idea that "The Dying Days" is set after all the novels published after it, but the presence of Wolsey and the Doctor surrending 7's umbrella renders it doubtful. As for relying on the Doctor's age in various stories, seeing as how he passes 1000 in "Set Piece" I think that 1018 in the EDAs is untenable. Also, he's only 900 in the new tv series. Just ignore his age, it's not reliable.
I've never heard "100 Days of the Doctor" - does this clarify whether Charley or Lucie is the eighth Doctor's earlier companion? (If you're unaware, this is the story where the 6th Doctor checks out the 5th Doctor and his next two future selves, and the 8th Doctor and Lucie are seen meeting the 8th Doctor and Charley or vice versa).
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 30, 2020 23:10:00 GMT
Interesting theory I came across last night on tumblr. It basically says that the Charley audios take place after Lucie leaves the Doctor in Death in Blackpool. Interesting ideas, but basic flaws. I don't know where Lance Parkin has got the idea that "The Dying Days" is set after all the novels published after it, but the presence of Wolsey and the Doctor surrending 7's umbrella renders it doubtful. As for relying on the Doctor's age in various stories, seeing as how he passes 1000 in "Set Piece" I think that 1018 in the EDAs is untenable. Also, he's only 900 in the new tv series. Just ignore his age, it's not reliable.
I've never heard "100 Days of the Doctor" - does this clarify whether Charley or Lucie is the eighth Doctor's earlier companion? (If you're unaware, this is the story where the 6th Doctor checks out the 5th Doctor and his next two future selves, and the 8th Doctor and Lucie are seen meeting the 8th Doctor and Charley or vice versa).
No I don’t think it does clarify which Companions comes when. Six and Evelyn just see one Eighth Doctor, with Charley and C’rizz, playing cards against another Eighth Doctor who’s with Lucie. As for Lance Parkin saying that The Dying Days is After the EDAs, I think that’s just something he said way back when it first came out, as he’s got it listed between the TV movie and the EDAs on his website. Granted, the website hasn’t been active since 2017, and this post in particular appears to be from around 2011, but it’s at least a more recent take than the one saying it goes after the EDAs. lanceparkin.wordpress.com/doctor-who/doctor-who-chronologically/
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