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Post by icecreamdf on Mar 25, 2016 21:54:01 GMT
What did everybody think of the new Batman/Superman movie? I thought it was pretty awesome-especially the scene where the three heroes were fighting Doomsday, and the actual Batman V Superman battle. The new Batman and Wonder Woman were both pretty good, and I liked the new Lex a lot more than I thought I would. While Lois was drowning, I really thought they were going to kill her off for a while. Especially after The Dark Knight. I never expected that they would actually kill Superman off though. I'm sure he'll get better, but still.
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 25, 2016 22:54:34 GMT
I really hope Supes gets better. Not a lot of people like him but I really enjoy Cavill's Superman. Even when the movies have no joy, there's always a really fun enthusiasm in his performance and you can tell he's making the best of what he's given. The one thing that constantly stood out to me was Batman used a gun that entire movie. The first time I saw that I almost walked out of the theatre because of how mad that made me. I got used to it but it still doesn't make sense that we have a Batman willing to kill yet the Joker is going to be in Suicide Squad and he has been against Batman. If you're going to have a Batman willing to kill, you can't have the Joker. I really enjoyed the Superman and Batman fight but I just got mad because Batman won by pretty much cheating.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 0:06:33 GMT
Awful. It asks questions of its heroes then never answers them. Superman doesn't answer the charges from congress over his action while Batman is a psycho like in Miller's execrable All-Star Batman And Robin. He murders, maims, brands with hot irons, blows people up and breaks necks. That's The Punisher. Not Batman. Eisenberg thinks Jim Carrey's Riddler is how to play Lex Luthor. It's a terrible performance. I was glad to hear even Simon Mayo - nicest man on UK broadcasting - saying Eisenberg is abysmal. He wouldn't say boo to a goose normally. This Universe doesn't need a Joker or Riddler when Lex acts like this. He's doing their routines for them. Our main actors don't "act" - just pose in stoic/angry/iconic stances and look menacing. Cavill gets literally nothing to do here. "Look Superman-y", you can almost hear Snyder shouting from behind the camera. The pacing is terrible. The first half is all facile moralistic talk in conference rooms, committees, newspaper offices and not much else while the 3 main set pieces follow on back-to-back. The tone shift is bizarre and doesn't work at all. It goes from 12 Angry Men to Transformers. Apparently because there's a lot of explosions we can brush the questions this film spends AGES setting up, under the rug. Because we blew up Holly Hunter's Senator, Superman gets a bye? IN-UNIVERSE, the way they've set it up, I can't believe that each and every human isn't now saying "Hey, not only did these people destroy half of Metropolis yet again, but also Gotham too. And there's more than just a Superman, he's got friends..we should really be worried now". But no...we need to get to the Justice League so the film just ignores the questions IT asked earlier. You're not even getting pay off from the movies own setups here. There's no growth for anyone, no character depth for anyone. No-one is changed. They will all still kill, just not each other. Superman dying was massively predictable - you don't have Doomsday in something UNLESS he's going to kill Superman. That's what the character was invented for, just as Bane was invented to break Batman's back. There's literally no reason for Doomsday to exist unless you're doing the 90s Death Of Superman arc. This might have worked if they didn't have the last shot of the movie be a "Hey, he's gonna be OK folks" nod. In the Death arc he was 100% dead and stayed dead for a long, long time by comic standards. This? About 10 minutes before they show you the coffin moving to signify his rebirth. Did they think audiences would be too upset if they didn't have that tacked on nonsense? Perhaps the most laughable part was the "Martha" scene where Batman decides not to kill Superman because their mothers have the same name. It got an audible groan from the audience I was in. Honestly, the reasons for them fighting were not strong enough to begin with and you can't justify either being geniuses - which the characters absolutely should be - when they just go in all guns blazing to fight each other. I'd recommend seeing the Superman: The Animated Series 3-parter just called World's Finest for how Superman and Batman can be "enemies" but not just thuggish barbarians. And that was a kid's show. Awful, awful stuff. Makes all the same mistakes as Man Of Steel and a whole shedload of new ones. Snyder is an absolute hack. Warners giving him this even after Man Of Steel didn't make enough to justify a standalone sequel (it was announced then removed from the. slate when the film got nowhere near the billion dollars hoped for) is baffling. Even more baffling is giving him both upcoming Justice League films so far in advance. Looks even sillier now the response to this film is out. Redeeming features? Gail Gadot as Wonder Woman gets used as a plot device and convenience but she makes the most of her role. I like her using the Israeli accent. No reason why Wonder Woman should have an American accent a la Lynda Carter. Jeremy Irons is a fun Alfred. The Batmobile design looks great as do the Bat-suits both cloth and metal. The Batcave, and the entrance are uber-cool. The score is good by Zimmer and Junkie XL though I miss the days of a John Williams or Danny Elfman theme. Something hummable like the iconic themes of Superman '78 or Batman '89. Holly Hunter is solid - as if she's ever anything less - in a thankless role. The Kevin Costner cameo was a genuine surprise, I don't think that was even rumoured. Shame his Pa Kent was a sociopath! Fishburne actually felt like a newspaper editor, a very traditional Perry White. So, yeah. The film sets out to be grim and that's the word I'd use for it - both tonally and quality wise...it sure is grim
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 0:12:56 GMT
The one thing that constantly stood out to me was Batman used a gun that entire movie. The first time I saw that I almost walked out of the theatre because of how mad that made me. I got used to it but it still doesn't make sense that we have a Batman willing to kill yet the Joker is going to be in Suicide Squad and he has been against Batman. If you're going to have a Batman willing to kill, you can't have the Joker. Absolutely fantastic point. We can't have The Joker work against a Batman who slaughters people that freely. The Affleck Batman would snap Leto's neck and not think twice. Or use the Batwing as a bomber drone. He's clearly got no issue with doing either and shows no remorse. That's just against strangers who are hired goons. No WAY would this guy not slaughter The Joker especially if, as looks likely, Leto's Joker killed Jason Todd.
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Post by Timelord007 on Mar 26, 2016 8:45:05 GMT
Awful. It asks questions of its heroes then never answers them. Superman doesn't answer the charges from congress over his action while Batman is a psycho like in Miller's execrable All-Star Batman And Robin. He murders, maims, brands with hot irons, blows people up and breaks necks. That's The Punisher. Not Batman. Eisenberg thinks Jim Carrey's Riddler is how to play Lex Luthor. It's a terrible performance. I was glad to hear even Simon Mayo - nicest man on UK broadcasting - saying Eisenberg is abysmal. He wouldn't say boo to a goose normally. This Universe doesn't need a Joker or Riddler when Lex acts like this. He's doing their routines for them. Our main actors don't "act" - just pose in stoic/angry/iconic stances and look menacing. Cavill gets literally nothing to do here. "Look Superman-y", you can almost hear Snyder shouting from behind the camera. The pacing is terrible. The first half is all facile moralistic talk in conference rooms, committees, newspaper offices and not much else while the 3 main set pieces follow on back-to-back. The tone shift is bizarre and doesn't work at all. It goes from 12 Angry Men to Transformers. Apparently because there's a lot of explosions we can brush the questions this film spends AGES setting up, under the rug. Because we blew up Holly Hunter's Senator, Superman gets a bye? IN-UNIVERSE, the way they've set it up, I can't believe that each and every human isn't now saying "Hey, not only did these people destroy half of Metropolis yet again, but also Gotham too. And there's more than just a Superman, he's got friends..we should really be worried now". But no...we need to get to the Justice League so the film just ignores the questions IT asked earlier. You're not even getting pay off from the movies own setups here. There's no growth for anyone, no character depth for anyone. No-one is changed. They will all still kill, just not each other. Superman dying was massively predictable - you don't have Doomsday in something UNLESS he's going to kill Superman. That's what the character was invented for, just as Bane was invented to break Batman's back. There's literally no reason for Doomsday to exist unless you're doing the 90s Death Of Superman arc. This might have worked if they didn't have the last shot of the movie be a "Hey, he's gonna be OK folks" nod. In the Death arc he was 100% dead and stayed dead for a long, long time by comic standards. This? About 10 minutes before they show you the coffin moving to signify his rebirth. Did they think audiences would be too upset if they didn't have that tacked on nonsense? Perhaps the most laughable part was the "Martha" scene where Batman decides not to kill Superman because their mothers have the same name. It got an audible groan from the audience I was in. Honestly, the reasons for them fighting were not strong enough to begin with and you can't justify either being geniuses - which the characters absolutely should be - when they just go in all guns blazing to fight each other. I'd recommend seeing the Superman: The Animated Series 3-parter just called World's Finest for how Superman and Batman can be "enemies" but not just thuggish barbarians. And that was a kid's show. Awful, awful stuff. Makes all the same mistakes as Man Of Steel and a whole shedload of new ones. Snyder is an absolute hack. Warners giving him this even after Man Of Steel didn't make enough to justify a standalone sequel (it was announced then removed from the. slate when the film got nowhere near the billion dollars hoped for) is baffling. Even more baffling is giving him both upcoming Justice League films so far in advance. Looks even sillier now the response to this film is out. Redeeming features? Gail Gadot as Wonder Woman gets used as a plot device and convenience but she makes the most of her role. I like her using the Israeli accent. No reason why Wonder Woman should have an American accent a la Lynda Carter. Jeremy Irons is a fun Alfred. The Batmobile design looks great as do the Bat-suits both cloth and metal. The Batcave, and the entrance are uber-cool. The score is good by Zimmer and Junkie XL though I miss the days of a John Williams or Danny Elfman theme. Something hummable like the iconic themes of Superman '78 or Batman '89. Holly Hunter is solid - as if she's ever anything less - in a thankless role. The Kevin Costner cameo was a genuine surprise, I don't think that was even rumoured. Shame his Pa Kent was a sociopath! Fishburne actually felt like a newspaper editor, a very traditional Perry White. So, yeah. The film sets out to be grim and that's the word I'd use for it - both tonally and quality wise...it sure is grim I agree with everything Davids mentioned here, he has summarized the movie perfectly. I rate it 4/10 & that's being generous. I felt nothing about the characters or Supermans death because i don't feel we got to know this Supetman yet, Affleck was best thing in it as Batman but him killing is way off character & as David quite rightly mentioned is more in tone of the Punisher. That fight scene was way too one sided & not the epic smackdown i was led to believe, sorry but DC are playing catch up to Marvel who are wiping the floor in terms of quality at the minute, Civil Wars got no competition worries & for me will give fans the heart & emotional drama BvS didn't.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 26, 2016 11:28:57 GMT
Perhaps the most laughable part was the "Martha" scene where Batman decides not to kill Superman because their mothers have the same name. Wow, that sounds like a bad April Fools Day joke. Think I'll wait for The LEGO Batman Movie, which already looks a lot better than Batman VS A Very Depressed-Looking Superman.
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 26, 2016 12:08:15 GMT
Man of Steel had a good story under the doom and gloom. You could tell everyone was trying to give it their all and work with the script. This was DC trying to speed up and catch up to Marvel in the span of a single movie. It could have worked. They have the cast. They just need a better writer and director and producers. What kept me from walking out of the theater was Henry Cavill, Amy Adams, Ben Aflek, Gal Gadot, and Holly Hunter trying to give it their all despite everything else. Through Superman pushing up daisies and a soldier-like funeral montage and Batman using guns and the fact Batman won the fight not using his own skills, there was a cast trying its best to give the audience something to enjoy, which I think they succeeded. I give this movie 5/10 just because of how much I enjoyed the cast. Any lesser hands would have had me walking out of the theater before the credits started rolling.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Mar 26, 2016 12:18:33 GMT
Frankly I have no intention of seeing this. As soon as Ben Affleck was cast I wrote this movie off. Horrible choice - the guy was brutal as Daredevil, how could anyone think he'd be better as Batman. With the exception of a few Batman movies, most of the movies based on characters from DC Comics has been horrible at best, oddly they seem to do a far better job with their TV shows.
My attention is focused on the upcoming X-Men release.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 12:27:31 GMT
Affleck is 100% not the problem with the film. In a film where a glass jar of urine is an important plot point - used twice - there's little any of the actors could do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 12:47:59 GMT
I saw this last night and staying until the end was a BIG problem... David put it a bit more elegantly above, but for me it was garbage! Ben Affleck was actually ok, but it was a poor script and not a patch on any of the DC TV shows for entertainment. How they could get it so wrong amazes me, I was very disappointed after leaving the cinema. A waste of an evening!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 26, 2016 13:18:45 GMT
Affleck is 100% not the problem with the film. In a film where a glass jar of urine is an important plot point - used twice - there's little any of the actors could do. I didn't realise this was a comedy.
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Post by fingersmash on Mar 26, 2016 13:23:17 GMT
It's not. It just leads to killing off characters that have no use in the current narrative anymore. I'm waiting for Justice League bring in new characters who serve the exact same purpose and kill them off too. This movie doesn't understand storytelling through a franchise on a basic level.
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Post by omega on Mar 26, 2016 22:14:27 GMT
I have three guesses as to what Lex was mentioning at the end: 1) Darkseid. This is the second big event on Earth in this continuity involving Kryptonians, perhaps the damaged Scout Ship Lex used to create Doomsday has emitted something felt on Apokolips. The Scout Ship is still relatively intact by the end of the film, if the dome covering it still being there is anything to go by, and after what Lex did people wouldn't be allowed on board. Additionally it was after interaction with the Scout Ship AI that Lex went really weird.
The creatures in Bruce's dream (when he's decrypting Lex's files) as well as the camera focus on the Paradise Lost painting at the end would imply Parademons, native to Apokolips and obedient to Darkseid. We also see an Omega symbol in another of Bruce's nightmares, a symbol very familiar to Darkseid.
2) Nekkron. Superman seemingly dies at the end of the movie, as does Doomsday, a monstrous Human-Kryptonian hybrid. Nekkron is the living embodiment of Death. I believe we're seeing the beginnings of a cinematic Blackest Night. Superman may rise again, an agent of Nekkron. We could see an Orange Lantern Lex Luthor, Blue Lantern Flash, a Star Sapphire Wonder Woman and a Red Lantern Mera (Aquaman's girlfriend). It'd bring some color into the so far dark DC Cinematic Universe.
3) The Anti-Monitor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 2:05:10 GMT
I think it's rather obvious that Darkseid is going to be the villain for the 2-part JL movie. I have zero confidence with Hack Snyder developing it though. The Parademons and Omega logo made it some of the least subtle foreshadowing ever seen. It couldn't be more obvious if Ed Asner showed up as Granny Goodness . It's so counter intuitive. We're going to be getting the massive cosmic war before we've even seen these heroes in action against Earth bound rogues...it's so painful to see this ADD approach when we've seen how Marvel have taken years to build their world up before making the epic Infinity Wars. You need to make us CARE about this team before putting them in the deadliest situation possible. You can't go any higher stakes than Darkseid and Apokolips. Surely this is storytelling 101. You don't peak too soon. It's corporate panicking because they want some of that juicy Avengers cash ASAP. They're running a sprint when they should be preparing for a marathon. They're going to have used the universe's biggest threats up in the first half dozen movies. Apropos of nothing, I'm seeing a rather horrible trend on social media where fans of this movie are calling anyone with grievances "haters". I think, having paid for the film, having spent 25 years reading DC comics and owning thousands of them, having seen every depiction of Bats and Supes from Lewis Wilson and Bud Collyer onwards and having listed genuine issues with the film in a good deal of depth I'm entitled to my view without it being reduced to being that of a "hater". Especially since I was very much against the grain in supporting the Affleck casting at the time when the internet was opposing him en masse. I was hoping that the film would fix the issues of Man Of Steel. I'm a huge fan of both heroes so why would I want it to be bad? I'm yet to read a positive review that rebuts any of the issues I raised in my post upthread. I think some fans are almost scared to admit that this film we've waited all our lives for might indeed be poor. Another rather horrid trend is people attacking reviewers because of the savage reception. I don't recall anyone attacking the same reviewers for their opinions on the Nolan films which were lauded as instant classics. Do the public now think that reviewers are only worth their time if they agree with them? Not pretty.
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Post by kurumais on Mar 27, 2016 2:08:51 GMT
i was hoping zack snyder could pull together at least a fun super hero spectacular. i am sorry i just dnt think he is a very good film maker. what ever he and jessie eisenberg were going for with lex fail completely. the action when it finally came was just bad. it was all cgi and particle effects terrible cuts . it seemed like he wanted to make the dark knight returns but got stuck making this movie. he lifted things right out of DKR i hope he gives frank miller a writing credit. and the things he lifted didnt feel epic or amazing maybe because i saw them coming but they fell flat for me. ben afleck and jeremy irons were both good. ben better as angry bruce wayne,
i think this was a good intro for wonder woman gal godot surprised me, as i had heard she was a bad actress. but she really did not have many lines so i think the jury is still open.
the music editing was terrible it telegraphed every point they wanted you to think was a big or important scene. i am not sure i wording this right but i started getting annoyed by it less than half way thru.
the plot was a mess the editing didnt help the dreams sequences were a poor choice especially since their were other scenes in the movie that were framed just like the dream sequences.
the battle with doomsday had a few dragon ball z esque powerup things that looked like they took out big chunks of both gotham and metropolis so the core theme of super duper being breaking the human world to bits just went out the window .
gotham being right across the bay from metropolis was kind of dumb since it seemed like clatk was just getting clued in there was a batman
jessie eisenberg and his lex was the worst thing about the movie for me he didnt seem smart or powerful or threatening he was annoying and had daddy issues. that was about it.
i did like the cyborg scene i am still very curious how they are going to make a ezra miller' barry allen work. the aquaman tease was pretty good as well.
4 out 10 from me
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Post by agentten on Mar 27, 2016 4:27:06 GMT
Another rather horrid trend is people attacking reviewers because of the savage reception. I don't recall anyone attacking the same reviewers for their opinions on the Nolan films which were lauded as instant classics. Do the public now think that reviewers are only worth their time if they agree with them? Not pretty. You mention a valid point. We live a world where film critics received death threats for giving The Force Awakens a negative review. We all know that fans are passionate about what they love, as well as what they don't, but the internet seems to magnify that trait to a disturbing degree. As with Man of Steel, Dawn of Justice seems to have been rather divisive among viewers. That's not really a surprise, but how people are handling that divisiveness is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 5:27:34 GMT
Interesting comments from James Wan at yesterday's WonderCon. He is, of course, directing Aquaman's solo film. He commented that his film will be lighter in tone and that "these films shouldn't forget to have fun." Hard to read that as anything but a reference to BvS. Meanwhile, it doesn't seem like Michael Shannon is too finvested in the DCU after his role as Zod. When asked who will win in the battle of the World's Finest he replied "I’m so utterly unconcerned with the outcome of that fight. So profoundly, utterly unconcerned. I can’t even come up with a fake answer."
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Post by relativetime on Mar 27, 2016 6:37:43 GMT
Just got back from seeing this movie. I didn't think it could actually be as disappointing as everyone said it was and I was right. It was worse. I couldn't STAND the movie's portrayal of Superman and while Ben Affleck and Jeremy Irons were GREAT, I just couldn't see the Batman onscreen as anything similar to the same Batman I grew up knowing. Branding people IS NOT what Batman does! It's almost like they tried to make this version of Superman look better by making Batman even more dark. Didn't work - every moment Batman punched him in the face felt like justice.
The way this movie tried to juggle all these plot threads at once reminded me of Spiderman 3, but worse. Yeah, I went there. They flat out abandon the entire "put Superman on trial" plot they'd been building up for the first part of the movie - it LITERALLY all goes up in flames. Lex Luther's plan made NO sense whatsoever to me. Lois Lane is just... there. She doesn't make any notable contributions to the plot and just serves as some object for Superman to save. The fight between Batman and Superman ended pretty stupidly. The ending dragged on and on and on...
I barely know what else to say and I'm probably forgetting about a lot more I wanted to talk about. What a complete train wreck.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Mar 27, 2016 10:45:05 GMT
It's a Abatman who has lost his way. In effect, like the worst RTD Doctor, he needs someone to stop him and humanise him. He needs a Robin.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 13:07:14 GMT
He's had, and lost a Robin, if the suit in the Batcave is to be believed. Is that Jason Todd? It should be by comic lore but considering this film introduces and KILLS Jimmy Olsen without even naming him on screen, only in the credits, I don't think the supporting characters interest Snyder and co. So for all we know, it's Dick Grayson who is dead.
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