aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Apr 4, 2016 13:52:21 GMT
A new thread, just for a bit of fun, share and discuss all your odd, unpopular or controversial Doctor who opinions and theories.
(Please keep things civil)
A few of mine:
I loved the self aware silly campness of Robots of Sherwood, but I didn't care very much for Listen (though I liked the cinematography), overall I think Series 8 of New Who was one of the best since the series returned.
Not entirely sure why the 10th Doctor in universe retained a fondness for K-9, he's funny in small doses but always struck me as a tad...annoying...
David Tennant though a very talented actor, and 'my' doctor growing up, in retrospect the 10th Doctor dosen't strike me as a particularly interesting incarnation...
In some ways I prefer the more arrogant, detached 12th Doctor we had in Series 8, over the aging rockstar he became in Series 9 , I like both persona's very much, but I just wish the change between the two wasn't so sudden...
Jenna Coleman is the best actress out of the New Who companions, she has better chemistry with Capaldi than Smith, and Clara and 12's difficult relationship was the most interesting to watch on screen for years i.m.o.
Overall I find the RTD era the more enjoyable of New Who (by a narrow(ish) margin), I think he was a stronger supporting character and arc writer than Moffat, but not as imaginative with individual storylines or as good at writing the Doctor as Moffat was, looking back on Series 1-4 in retrospect I think RTD went to far at times pandering to the general public and pop culture of the time, and as such I don't think his era will stand the test of time quite as well as Moffat's may, I'd also argue Moffat is the more talented writer of the two by a narrow margin, with a bolder, more imaginative approach to Sci Fi, Moffat's Who reflects the Classic Series more so than RTD's does i.m.o, though this isn't always a good thing.
William Hartnell is i.m.o the most underrated of all the Doctors, and my favourite of the first seven by quite a distance, in some ways the 1st Doctor strikes me as the 'proto' Doctor and lacks many of the character traits that Toughton onwards brought in, but he, and his storylines are all the better for it, there's a wonderful sense of experimental magic about those first 7 years that was partially lost when the program moved to colour i.m.o...
Eccleston was a fantastic Doctor, and as much as I'm tempted to say I'd have loved him to stay on for a few more years, I do think a one and done series arc worked very well for his Doctor, and ultimately benefited the show (as did not bringing back McGann at the time).That said, I do think Eccleston's performance was a little uneven in his earlier episodes, and I don't think he was ever really comfortable with the zany humour or camper storylines of the show.
Although I wasn't overkeen on Day Of The Doctor (it was very enjoyable as a bit of escapism, but also struck me as a pretty self congratulatory, rushed story and not i.m.o truly reflective of the 50 years of history beforehand), I loved the idea of the War Doctor from the start, I oddly Hurt as the Doctor much quicker than some of the 'proper' incarnations.
Had the TV Movie lead to a full series, I think (as most of you will probably agree) McGann had the potential to become one of the best doctors of them all (he is my favourite overall), his performance in the TV Movie was i.m.o the most promising debut performance any of the actors (bar Smith) have given.
I think the way the 8th Doctor regenerated in NOTD was a much more fitting ending than fighting in the time war would have been, and it's arguably the most tragic and doctory regeneration of them all.
I'm not really overkeen on the 3rd Doctor or his era, Petwee's a charismatic, talented actor, but I found the 3rd Dr rather too straight laced, serious and self righteous at times, although there are a number of Classics in Petwee's era, overall I found the early 70's to be a little formulaic, many of the stories were overlong or badly paced,and Delgrado's Master, though great, was overused i.m.o.
I liked Rose very much in series 1...not as much...in Series 2.
I actually like Sixy's multi coloured coat, and in some ways I prefer the more abrasive early 6th Doctor over his calmer, wiser older persona (not that I don't respect and enjoy Big Finish's wonderful development of the 6th Doctor, but I've always preferred my Doctors a little on the alien/darker side)
Tom Baker is a hugely charismatic leading man with great comic timing and a wonderful grasp of how to play the child friendly eccentric...but even now I can't quite work out if he's a great actor, or merely doing a great job at playing himself...
I've always dislike the idea of Rose being the 9th Doctor's first story immediately after his regeneration, the 'mirror' scene is in my eyes nothing more than a jokey reference for hardcore fans, or alternately inferring a recent haircut.
I rather enjoy the TV Movie, I preferred Eric Roberts's Master to John Simm's, and the 'half human on my mothers side' is an interesting concept that I'd be at least open to the show exploring at some point.
The 2nd Dr isn't necessarily one of my favorite's, but overall I'd say he's the 'best' and most influential on the role, I'd also argue Troughton (after Sir John Hurt) was the finest actor to hold the role.
Arguing about canon and timelines is fun for fans, but I don't think the TV series should be tied down by it.
This may be hypocritical of me... although Missy might just be my favourite incarnation of the Master so far, I'm personally yet to be convinced there is a good enough reason for casting a female Doctor, personally I have concerns it wouldn't fit with how the character has been written for the last 50 years, it could divide the fanbase, or simply risk the actress in question being viewed as a gimmick or put on a pedestal...I know after Missy the argument now essentially boils down to 'Why not?'...well in that case why not keep the character male?
If the BBC were to announce the Daleks and Sonic Screwdriver were to be axed for the immediate future...I wouldn't shed too many tears...
I liked the Sonic Sunglasess.
The Peter Cushing films weren't very good.
The 2 part Interference Book by Lawrence Miles was one of the most frustrating books I've read in recent memory, great ideas, fantastic prose and stunning imagery, but overlong, self indulgent and frequently...boring...
My three favourite companions are Donna, Jamie and Fitz
How about you?
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Apr 4, 2016 14:58:17 GMT
For me its that for the most part, the VNA/MA's, EDA/PDA's and TV/BF/NSA's all take place in three seperate universe's/continuities. Even some of the books and BF audios hint at this. Again thats only my personnal head canon, but if we did attempt to have them all as one universe/continuity, the Billy2's timelines are the best way to go
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on Apr 4, 2016 15:07:57 GMT
For me its that for the most part, the VNA/MA's, EDA/PDA's and TV/BF/NSA's all take place in three seperate universe's/continuities. Even some of the books and BF audios hint at this. Again thats only my personnal head canon, but if we did attempt to have them all as one universe/continuity, the Billy2's timelines are the best way to go My personal head canon is...I don't have a headcanon, everything is equally valid in my eyes if I wanted to worry about continuity, but I don't, I just enjoy the stories as they are wihtout worrying about where they fit in(though it does annoy me when a story from one of the lines sets out to deliberately 'cancel out' another just because it can). 'For the most part'...yeah, I'm reading the EDA's at the moment, some of the books reference the looms, some reference the half human stuff, some seemingly treat both as 'false' or confusingly both as equally valid...
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Post by mark687 on Apr 4, 2016 16:10:11 GMT
Ducking for Cover
I don't like the Ponds Amy's a selfish nag and Rory's a doormat and the pick up drop off thing went on far too long. The straw that broke the camels back was the fact that Amy nearly ended her marriage because she couldn't have another biological child, no discussion about adoption, and then after Asylum its never mentioned again.
Also apart from Vincent and the Doctor and the Weeping Angels Eps that whole 1st SM/MS season just feels like a slog
As for Classic Who apart Nicholas Courtney as the Brigadier I'm not keen on Jon Petwee's Season 7 and Season 17 (apart from City of Death), the humour feels forced and personally I feel Tom Baker and Laila Ward are overcompensating for their off-screen chemistry .
Regards
mark687
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Post by icecreamdf on Apr 4, 2016 17:36:22 GMT
My favorite odd theory is that the Dominators are actually mostly competent. The two Dominators that we saw were sent to Dulcis by Dominator high command, because those two were idiots and Dulcis is among the easiest planets in the universe to conquer. When they failed, the other Dominators didn't miss them.
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Tony Jones
Chancellery Guard
Professor Chronotis
Still rockin' along!
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Post by Tony Jones on Apr 4, 2016 19:29:26 GMT
Ducking for Cover
I don't like the Ponds Amy's a selfish nag and Rory's a doormat and the pick up drop off thing went on far too long. The straw that broke the camels back was the fact that Amy nearly ended her marriage because she couldn't have another biological child, no discussion about adoption, and then after Asylum its never mentioned again.
Also apart from Vincent and the Doctor and the Weeping Angels Eps that whole 1st SM/MS season just feels like a slog
Regards
mark687 I have to say I felt Amy and Rory were zombie companions once Clara appeared in Asylum. The camera / writing / acting were so powerful I felt Amy / Rory were going through the motions from that point on. Meanwhile Daemons is one of my fave episodes, I like the Cushing movies (despite their many, many problems) as they were shown a few times in the 1970s, Troughton is my Doctor (today)
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Post by ryan on Apr 4, 2016 19:56:58 GMT
David Tennant though a very talented actor, and 'my' doctor growing up, in retrospect the 10th Doctor dosen't strike me as a particularly interesting incarnation... I liked Rose very much in series 1...not as much...in Series 2. Completely agree. When I see the other Doctors, it doesn't cross my mind that they're acting - they ARE the Doctor. But, as great an actor as David Tennant is, to me he's always an actor playing the Doctor. And Rose went from being a grounded sympathetic character in Series 1 to a smug 2D caricature action girl in Series 2.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 4, 2016 20:40:31 GMT
Totally unpopular opinions but here goes:
I like Matt Smith's tenure, in fact he's my favourite of the new series. The War Chief fits my Head Canon as being an early Master (yes, I did say it!) I don't like Missy - nothing against Michelle Gomez, but to me she's playing the same role she did in "Green Wing". I don't want "insane" Masters. I want them cold, calculating with a sense of humour (Delgado, Macqueen). I like Amy Pond, not keen on Clara, really dislike Rose.
Cheers
Tony
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 22:18:49 GMT
Ducking for Cover
I don't like the Ponds Amy's a selfish nag and Rory's a doormat and the pick up drop off thing went on far too long. The straw that broke the camels back was the fact that Amy nearly ended her marriage because she couldn't have another biological child, no discussion about adoption, and then after Asylum its never mentioned again.
Also apart from Vincent and the Doctor and the Weeping Angels Eps that whole 1st SM/MS season just feels like a slog
As for Classic Who apart Nicholas Courtney as the Brigadier I'm not keen on Jon Petwee's Season 7 and Season 17 (apart from City of Death), the humour feels forced and personally I feel Tom Baker and Laila Ward are overcompensating for their off-screen chemistry .
Regards
mark687 Amy had an incredibly messed up childhood. She lost her parents and Aunt Joan, although clearly never intending to be as such, was overwhelmed by Amy and neglectful. She had this amazing experience which lifted her out of her sad existance and came back down hard and never fully recovered. She spent years gossiped and ridiculed by those around her. Yes, Amy's pushy, but let's not forget where this comes from: it's either to move or to be crushed out of foot. Rory understands this as part of the package of being with Amy Pond and yes, sometimes she is incredibly defensive, but it's part of who she had to become. And let's not forget some of their banter is playful as well. Rory clearly loves his wonderful mad spontenous wife quite a bit and her teasing and loves being taken aback by this inexplicable person. Amy and Rory also compliment each other quite well as a couple and bring out the best in each other. Rory tempers Amy's anger and insecurities and let's her know she's wonderful and brilliant and Amy pushes him to be more assertive, because the world needs less bastards in it and knows how the world can treat what it percieves as weak and vulnerable and crush it underfoot. Let's not forget that her baby was stolen from her and, and it's understandable that Amy would find carthasis in ensuring that her daughter would be loved and nuturted and cared for. That hit hard with all her issues, on top of learning that said daughter was programmed into a weapon to kill her best friend and that although free from her abusers, she now has an adult life that she can't control and the damage is still there. That stupid Laws of Time prevent her from saving her daughter. That her daughter thinks two stupid kids friendship were a proper upbringing (and let's not forget the light and the dark of her two different childhoods) And then finding out she couldn't have another child on top of that? Amy hit rock bottom. And it's understandable that she gave up and pushed Rory away (because she felt she failed him and that hit hard with how he'd always been there for her). This wasn't something they could discuss as a couple. This was Amy dealing with severe trauma and I can't fault her for that and I don't think Rory would, either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 22:26:31 GMT
Something odd...
- Although I would never impose this on others, I do treat quite a lot of obscure and old Who content as canon like the FASA RPG and the Sixth Doctor Find-Your-Fate books.
- The same is true of some fanfiction tales like the Audio Visuals stories.
- I like to believe that Merlin and Muldwych are two differing future incarnations who adopted the "Merlin" moniker and that there are many other oncoming lives we've already seen out of context. I do rather like Peter Cushing's explanation for his incarnation being a plaything of the Celestial Toymaker for a stint of his incarnation (hence the films) and the Richard E. Grant Doctor speaks more or less for himself.
Something unpopular...- I like to try and quietly pretend that The Day of the Doctor doesn't exist. In fact... For me, the DWM comics are the official canon for the Eleventh Doctor more than the TV series is. Barring the Angels two-parter, Vincent and the Doctor and The Snowmen, it's a set of stories I've not particularly enjoyed.
- While it's a lot easier to reconcile the two nowadays, I still think that the Time War is the impact point that created a whole new continuity disparate from the classic series.
- Doctor Who and Blake's 7 both exist in the same continuity alongside Quatermass (see Remembrance of the Daleks and The Dying Days), Babylon 5 (see Interference) and others. However, Star Trek and Star Wars do not.
- The Ancestor Cell tied everything down to one point and then blew it up, so everything in the EDAs from before The Burning has consequently been wiped from the map.
Something controversial...- Much of Who's continuity from the TV Comic stories to the New Eighth Doctor Adventures can all coexist given a bit -- okay, a lot -- of lateral problem solving.
- I wholeheartedly think Lungbarrow and all it entails exist in the Doctor Who universe.
- I have a theory that some day long into his future (when his exact number of incarnations becomes irrelevant), the Doctor will assume control over one of the last hatcheries of Daleks and mentor them into becoming a genuinely peace-loving species.
- That the Faction Paradox material with loose ties to the Whoniverse is canonical.
- The Doctor's final incarnation and the Valeyard were split during their birth into two disparate entities due to all the experimentation on his own person as we saw in Trial of the Valeyard. Although he isn't the last, the David Collings incarnation is towards the end of this spectrum, towards the end of our Doctor's long life when he's becoming desperate, almost Master-like in his quest for a continued existence.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 22:36:27 GMT
The War Chief fits my Head Canon as being an early Master (yes, I did say it!) I'm always flip-flopping between saying "Hell, yes," and "Eh, maybe not." Maybe if there was another incarnation of the War Chief floating around it'd make it easier to decide which way or the other. Legions of Death reportedly has him turning up to use the Roman legionnaires as soldiers.
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Post by seeley on Apr 5, 2016 3:03:42 GMT
The War Chief fits my Head Canon as being an early Master (yes, I did say it!) I'm always flip-flopping between saying "Hell, yes," and "Eh, maybe not." Maybe if there was another incarnation of the War Chief floating around it'd make it easier to decide which way or the other. Legions of Death reportedly has him turning up to use the Roman legionnaires as soldiers. I mean, he's definitely a proto-Master, but he's not a carbon-copy of the character, and I see no particular benefit in merging the two. If nothing else, the sort of rivalry the Doctor and the Master have is not in evidence between the Doctor and the War Chief. And if we're going to get pedantic, the Master has a TARDIS, something the War Chief conspicuously lacked...
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Post by elkawho on Apr 5, 2016 3:26:06 GMT
I'm always flip-flopping between saying "Hell, yes," and "Eh, maybe not." Maybe if there was another incarnation of the War Chief floating around it'd make it easier to decide which way or the other. Legions of Death reportedly has him turning up to use the Roman legionnaires as soldiers. I mean, he's definitely a proto-Master, but he's not a carbon-copy of the character, and I see no particular benefit in merging the two. If nothing else, the sort of rivalry the Doctor and the Master have is not in evidence between the Doctor and the War Chief. And if we're going to get pedantic, the Master has a TARDIS, something the War Chief conspicuously lacked... He could have procured one at a later date. They are one and the same in my head canon as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 3:39:34 GMT
I'm always flip-flopping between saying "Hell, yes," and "Eh, maybe not." Maybe if there was another incarnation of the War Chief floating around it'd make it easier to decide which way or the other. Legions of Death reportedly has him turning up to use the Roman legionnaires as soldiers. I mean, he's definitely a proto-Master, but he's not a carbon-copy of the character, and I see no particular benefit in merging the two. If nothing else, the sort of rivalry the Doctor and the Master have is not in evidence between the Doctor and the War Chief. And if we're going to get pedantic, the Master has a TARDIS, something the War Chief conspicuously lacked... At least, on screen. He's also clearly seen to die at the end of The War Games, yet he does later appear in Timewyrm: Exodus in a grotesque fusion caught between his Brayshaw and Kreigsleiter incarnations due to the faulty renewal. According to TARDIS wiki, the novel goes further by stating the reason why he left Gallifrey in the first place. Apparently, he was framed for treason by the Celestial Intervention Agency on the behalf of Borusa who perceived him as a threat to his own seat of power due to his rising prominence. At the story's conclusion, he's caught in an atomic explosion at Drakensberg that appears to rejuvenate him for a split second into "a young man, tall, dark and satanically handsome". The implication perhaps is that he burns to death in the castle, although we never see it ourselves. All in all, that sounds rather appealing as a backstory really. Someone who had the capacity to rule, but was outmaneuvered by his political adversaries.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 5:35:33 GMT
The 12th doctor is in the conclusion of DOTD because the TARDIS doesn't complete the necessary calculations until his era. at the time, the general mistakenly believes this is the thirteenth incarnation of the Doctor joining the fray.
In TOTD the Time Lords realise they've miscounted (due to the two Tennants - after all, their were two versions of the seventh Doctor there) and Smith is the last incarnation. They are stuck in a paradox. they have no option but to give him a new regeneration cycle, because they've already done it, otherwise Gallifrey would have been destroyed in the Time War.
When Smith regenerates this creates a new paradox, in that the Doctor now no longer dies on Trenzalore, rewriting all the events of NOTD and removing all the Clara splinters from existence. Hence the fireworks.
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Post by acousticwolf on Apr 5, 2016 7:58:05 GMT
I'm always flip-flopping between saying "Hell, yes," and "Eh, maybe not." Maybe if there was another incarnation of the War Chief floating around it'd make it easier to decide which way or the other. Legions of Death reportedly has him turning up to use the Roman legionnaires as soldiers. I mean, he's definitely a proto-Master, but he's not a carbon-copy of the character, and I see no particular benefit in merging the two. If nothing else, the sort of rivalry the Doctor and the Master have is not in evidence between the Doctor and the War Chief. And if we're going to get pedantic, the Master has a TARDIS, something the War Chief conspicuously lacked... We don't know he didn't have a TARDIS and even if he didn't, there were plenty of SIDRATs around Cheers Tony
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 5, 2016 8:46:18 GMT
I can't stand "Chimes of Midnight" (and I gave it a second chance today). I don't like River "sweetie" Song. I don't like "Inferno". I like "Timelash". I like sixie's coat (and have been called "categorically wrong" to my face by Colin for it).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 9:24:59 GMT
I like sixie's coat (and have been called "categorically wrong" to my face by Colin for it). Yeah, he's not overly fond of it, the poor man had to wear it for two and a half years. I actually like it too. It's not suitable for every story certainly, but it has a distinctiveness to it that's altogether rather charming. If I have a choice though, I'd definitely take his more sedate blue coat over it any day of the week.
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Post by mark687 on Apr 5, 2016 9:34:06 GMT
Ducking for Cover
I don't like the Ponds Amy's a selfish nag and Rory's a doormat and the pick up drop off thing went on far too long. The straw that broke the camels back was the fact that Amy nearly ended her marriage because she couldn't have another biological child, no discussion about adoption, and then after Asylum its never mentioned again.
Also apart from Vincent and the Doctor and the Weeping Angels Eps that whole 1st SM/MS season just feels like a slog
As for Classic Who apart Nicholas Courtney as the Brigadier I'm not keen on Jon Petwee's Season 7 and Season 17 (apart from City of Death), the humour feels forced and personally I feel Tom Baker and Laila Ward are overcompensating for their off-screen chemistry .
Regards
mark687 Amy had an incredibly messed up childhood. She lost her parents and Aunt Joan, although clearly never intending to be as such, was overwhelmed by Amy and neglectful. She had this amazing experience which lifted her out of her sad existance and came back down hard and never fully recovered. She spent years gossiped and ridiculed by those around her. Yes, Amy's pushy, but let's not forget where this comes from: it's either to move or to be crushed out of foot. Rory understands this as part of the package of being with Amy Pond and yes, sometimes she is incredibly defensive, but it's part of who she had to become. And let's not forget some of their banter is playful as well. Rory clearly loves his wonderful mad spontenous wife quite a bit and her teasing and loves being taken aback by this inexplicable person. Amy and Rory also compliment each other quite well as a couple and bring out the best in each other. Rory tempers Amy's anger and insecurities and let's her know she's wonderful and brilliant and Amy pushes him to be more assertive, because the world needs less bastards in it and knows how the world can treat what it percieves as weak and vulnerable and crush it underfoot. Let's not forget that her baby was stolen from her and, and it's understandable that Amy would find carthasis in ensuring that her daughter would be loved and nuturted and cared for. That hit hard with all her issues, on top of learning that said daughter was programmed into a weapon to kill her best friend and that although free from her abusers, she now has an adult life that she can't control and the damage is still there. That stupid Laws of Time prevent her from saving her daughter. That her daughter thinks two stupid kids friendship were a proper upbringing (and let's not forget the light and the dark of her two different childhoods) And then finding out she couldn't have another child on top of that? Amy hit rock bottom. And it's understandable that she gave up and pushed Rory away (because she felt she failed him and that hit hard with how he'd always been there for her). This wasn't something they could discuss as a couple. This was Amy dealing with severe trauma and I can't fault her for that and I don't think Rory would, either. Very detailed post Michael, thank you for reminding about the other issue I have with the Ponds, going through all that with River and then the approach they take with the kid and his parents in Night Terrors is completely lacking in Sympathy .
Personally I think the childhood relationship post Big Bang works, the fact we don't see a resolution between Amy and her parents is awful though, and highlights the fact she's not a more "real" character in my eyes at least Rory had Brian as another relationship.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Apr 5, 2016 9:37:29 GMT
I like sixie's coat (and have been called "categorically wrong" to my face by Colin for it). Yeah, he's not overly fond of it, the poor man had to wear it for two and a half years. I actually like it too. It's not suitable for every story certainly, but it has a distinctiveness to it that's altogether rather charming. If I have a choice though, I'd definitely take his more sedate blue coat over it any day of the week. Of course, wearing it means you don't have to look at it
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