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Post by polly on Jan 27, 2020 23:11:55 GMT
I absolutely love Captain Jack on Doctor Who, but have never watched Torchwood, because of hearing of how up and down the quality is. Should I give it a try?🤔 I would say so. It's hit and miss, yes, but so is Doctor Who proper, let's be honest here. Children of Earth is one of the best things in the entire Who franchise if you ask me. Just be prepared for a darker tone and more graphic content, and some embarrassing failures along the way. At worst, if you don't like it, you can quit, and at least you gave it a shot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 23:23:17 GMT
I absolutely love Captain Jack on Doctor Who, but have never watched Torchwood, because of hearing of how up and down the quality is. Should I give it a try?🤔 I would say so. It's hit and miss, yes, but so is Doctor Who proper, let's be honest here. Children of Earth is one of the best things in the entire Who franchise if you ask me. Just be prepared for a darker tone and more graphic content, and some embarrassing failures along the way. At worst, if you don't like it, you can quit, and at least you gave it a shot. I found the second season ran a lot smoother than the first, so the quality I think goes on an upward curve. I agree on Children of Earth. In fact, I'd say it's very good television, period. I think if you struggle with the first two series, jump forward to Children and watch that. And if all else fails, the good Captain's heading his own series under Big Finish, which includes him meeting ol' Sixie.
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Post by polly on Jan 27, 2020 23:26:38 GMT
I found the second season ran a lot smoother than the first, so the quality I think goes on an upward curve. I agree on Children of Earth. In fact, I'd say it's very good television, period. I think if you struggle with the first two series, jump forward to Children and watch that. And if all else fails, the good Captain's heading his own series under Big Finish, which includes him meeting ol' Sixie. Yeah, that's about where I'm at with the first two seasons as well, but they are both somewhat mixed bags. And I don't even know what the consensus is on Miracle Day. I thought it was okay, but some people really seem to hate it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 23:39:51 GMT
I found the second season ran a lot smoother than the first, so the quality I think goes on an upward curve. I agree on Children of Earth. In fact, I'd say it's very good television, period. I think if you struggle with the first two series, jump forward to Children and watch that. And if all else fails, the good Captain's heading his own series under Big Finish, which includes him meeting ol' Sixie. Yeah, that's about where I'm at with the first two seasons as well, but they are both somewhat mixed bags. And I don't even know what the consensus is on Miracle Day. I thought it was okay, but some people really seem to hate it. I've never seen Miracle Day, truth be told. For largely the same reasons I never really delved into the Charley Pollard series after Blue Forgotten Planet. Children of Earth was a satisfying enough conclusion to the whole thing that I wasn't really drawn to a continuation. I was content with where they left it. It might be okay...?
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Post by polly on Jan 27, 2020 23:43:18 GMT
I've never seen Miracle Day, truth be told. For largely the same reasons I never really delved into the Charley Pollard series after Blue Forgotten Planet. Children of Earth was a satisfying enough conclusion to the whole thing that I wasn't really drawn to a continuation. I was content with where they left it. It might be okay...? I can respect that, certainly. I think it's an interesting idea with some really screwy decisions in realizing it. And even if you did like Miracle Day, all you'd get is a cliffhanger anyhow, so
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 23:50:34 GMT
I've never seen Miracle Day, truth be told. For largely the same reasons I never really delved into the Charley Pollard series after Blue Forgotten Planet. Children of Earth was a satisfying enough conclusion to the whole thing that I wasn't really drawn to a continuation. I was content with where they left it. It might be okay...? I can respect that, certainly. I think it's an interesting idea with some really screwy decisions in realizing it. And even if you did like Miracle Day, all you'd get is a cliffhanger anyhow, so Bother. Do you know if it got resolved anywhere else or is it still a dangling thread?
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Post by sherlock on Jan 28, 2020 0:00:40 GMT
I can respect that, certainly. I think it's an interesting idea with some really screwy decisions in realizing it. And even if you did like Miracle Day, all you'd get is a cliffhanger anyhow, so Bother. Do you know if it got resolved anywhere else or is it still a dangling thread? There’s two unresolved threads. The villains claiming to have a Plan B and one of the character’s final scenes. The villains have kinda been resolved as a Big Finish audio tied them to the Committee, who are Big Finish’s Big Bad for Torchwood. The character cliffhanger hasn’t been resolved anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 0:19:17 GMT
Bother. Do you know if it got resolved anywhere else or is it still a dangling thread? There’s two unresolved threads. The villains claiming to have a Plan B and one of the character’s final scenes. The villains have kinda been resolved as a Big Finish audio tied them to the Committee, who are Big Finish’s Big Bad for Torchwood. The character cliffhanger hasn’t been resolved anywhere. See, I've only dipped into audio Torchwood here and there, but I'm very tempted to give it a proper look now. Erm, I guess you can chalk up one more convert?
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Post by polly on Jan 28, 2020 0:38:56 GMT
There’s two unresolved threads. The villains claiming to have a Plan B and one of the character’s final scenes. The villains have kinda been resolved as a Big Finish audio tied them to the Committee, who are Big Finish’s Big Bad for Torchwood. The character cliffhanger hasn’t been resolved anywhere. See, I've only dipped into audio Torchwood here and there, but I'm very tempted to give it a proper look now. Erm, I guess you can chalk up one more convert? I haven't heard anything from audio Torchwood either, actually. I'll have to keep my ear open for Miracle Day related stuff when I get round to them.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 28, 2020 0:48:02 GMT
See, I've only dipped into audio Torchwood here and there, but I'm very tempted to give it a proper look now. Erm, I guess you can chalk up one more convert? I haven't heard anything from audio Torchwood either, actually. I'll have to keep my ear open for Miracle Day related stuff when I get round to them. There’s only one audio which really touches on the Miracle, Forgotten Lives. There the connection between the villains of Miracle Day and the Committee is revealed, though it’s not really essential to the plot (it’s just a little touch of a few lines to reinforce the Committee’s Big Bad status more than anything else). I think somewhere it’s been mentioned that Big Finish can’t use the original characters from Miracle Day (?), I assume due to it being a co-production with Starz the rights are more complicated. Lack of Miracle Day connections aside, audio Torchwood is very good so highly recommended.
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Post by timegirl on Jan 28, 2020 16:47:25 GMT
As a fun one off episode they should do one of the new who episodes in the style of classic who, complete with the same style of filming, cheap sets, cliff hangers, and rubber monsters. 13 (or whoever is the current Doctor) would say something like this all feels very familiar. Then it would either be revealed that they were actually in the land of fiction or they were actually on the set of a popular science fiction show called Doctor What😄
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 16:53:41 GMT
As a fun one off episode they should do one of the new who episodes in the style of classic who, complete with the same style of filming, cheap sets, cliff hangers, and rubber monsters. 13 (or whoever is the current Doctor) would say something like this all feels very familiar. Then it would either be revealed that they were actually in the land of fiction or they were actually on the set of a popular science fiction show called Doctor What😄 You know I've always thought The Land Of Fiction is such a wonderful idea it's crazy that it's been used so little. I was SO excited when Legend Of The Cybermen came out (Oh my God....10 years ago) and we got what I wanted from The Land Of Fiction - a scuzzy Alan Moore like mashup of pop culture. Where Dracula was sending Little Lord Fauntleroy on covert missions with the Artful Dodger. Amazing stuff and a favourite story of mine to this day.
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Post by polly on Jan 28, 2020 20:23:04 GMT
As a fun one off episode they should do one of the new who episodes in the style of classic who, complete with the same style of filming, cheap sets, cliff hangers, and rubber monsters. 13 (or whoever is the current Doctor) would say something like this all feels very familiar. Then it would either be revealed that they were actually in the land of fiction or they were actually on the set of a popular science fiction show called Doctor What😄 I think for me that would depend on how it's handled. Done with love like Deep Space Nine's "Trials and Tribble-ations," yes. Done with disrespect like Twice Upon a Time, no thank you. As for the Land of Fiction, as much as I like weird stuff, the show is so off the wall already I'm not sure we need a realm with even less constraints than normal. I do like Mind Robber a lot though. Could go either way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 3:32:48 GMT
As a fun one off episode they should do one of the new who episodes in the style of classic who, complete with the same style of filming, cheap sets, cliff hangers, and rubber monsters. 13 (or whoever is the current Doctor) would say something like this all feels very familiar. Then it would either be revealed that they were actually in the land of fiction or they were actually on the set of a popular science fiction show called Doctor What😄 I think for me that would depend on how it's handled. Done with love like Deep Space Nine's "Trials and Tribble-ations," yes. Done with disrespect like Twice Upon a Time, no thank you. As for the Land of Fiction, as much as I like weird stuff, the show is so off the wall already I'm not sure we need a realm with even less constraints than normal. I do like Mind Robber a lot though. Could go either way. I mean... The Land of Fiction is essentially a wonderful excuse to do things like narrate Tigger down from the tree, which the Doctor feels perfect for: Was not sure where to put this but, it drives me up the wall when people (especially young women around my age) say they stopped watching Doctor Who during Peter Capaldi’s era because they thought he was too old and ugly and dark. He’s one of the most misunderstood Doctors up there with Colin Baker ( both of whom Doctors I will always defend no matter what)! I hate that 12 gets skipped over by so many people for not being a young pretty boy! Just last night I had an otherwise lovely phone chat with an old school friend of mine but then we started talking about Doctor Who, and she mentioned that she loved the show but stopped watching completely during 12’s era because she said he was too old and ugly and dark. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions(the world would be boring if everyone had the same ones) but to stop watching without giving him a chance for such a shallow reason makes my blood boil😡 I think that’s a major reason why (if I ever get the chance one day to write for Big Finish and Peter was doing Big Finish) I really want to eventually pitch to them my idea for a story deconstructing and challenging this shallow thinking where 12 gets temporarily changed into a cute young version Of himself (like 10 or 11)because he is under the false impression it’s what Clara wants, but have Clara desperately try to convince him to change back into his old self again because she loves his true self and doesn’t want him to hide behind a young face. Combining these two ideas together, I'd be very interested seeing the Doctor and his/her companions pulling a Scheherazade by trying to tell an archetypal Doctor Who story... but not quite all agreeing what the rules are. Everyone telling the story with their own version of who they think they are. So, the more self-conscious companion thinks they make more mistakes. The Doctor's idealised version of himself being written into a corner where he can't be anything less than perfect. Some other poor companion trying to stitch it altogether so it makes sense, and so on. It'd be a nice way for the characters to chat about how they perceive one another vs. how they perceive themselves. I can see the Doctor pulling a companion up because they themselves think they're not brave/smart enough (and vice versa) when the truth is far from it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 7:00:17 GMT
I mean... The Land of Fiction is essentially a wonderful excuse to do things like narrate Tigger down from the tree, which the Doctor feels perfect for: Combining these two ideas together, I'd be very interested seeing the Doctor and his/her companions pulling a Scheherazade by trying to tell an archetypal Doctor Who story... but not quite all agreeing what the rules are. Everyone telling the story with their own version of who they think they are. So, the more self-conscious companion thinks they make more mistakes. The Doctor's idealised version of himself being written into a corner where he can't be anything less than perfect. Some other poor companion trying to stitch it altogether so it makes sense, and so on. It'd be a nice way for the characters to chat about how they perceive one another vs. how they perceive themselves. I can see the Doctor pulling a companion up because they themselves think they're not brave/smart enough (and vice versa) when the truth is far from it. That’s a really cool meta idea!😀 Also another reason I want to do this with 12 is I think that it would be really unexpected and strange and interesting in a meta way to hear PeterCapaldi in particular play an idealized young sexy heartthrob version of his character in the vein of 10 and 11 🤔😀I do feel like Peter could pull off playing a twenty something version of his character(he’s just that good an actor) possibly to the where it might be too convincing ! I feel like 12 would be more than slightly awkward and even uncomfortable adjusting at first if he was suddenly the same age as Clara. he would probably enjoy not feeling the age barrier as much between him and Clara( it might even as a positive help him express his feelings for her) but I think otherwise he would just be confused about it especially if he was suddenly getting a different sort of attention from others if you know what I mean 😉 Clara would probably like having the Doctor be a dashing young man again at first but she would gradually realize it didn’t feel right and want him to go back to his normal real self. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see him explore being comfortable in his own skin. The Doctor doesn't typically get to choose their incarnations. They tend to be foisted on them by moments of crisis, so some end up quite pleased (Five/Six), some are a bit more wary (Two/Seven). But, if you gave those incarnations the option to take on an entirely new face (with a carefully sculpted persona to go with it), would they take it? I think with Twelve, in particular, that alter ego could be how he'd like to feel if he didn't have the experiences that he did. An opportunity to peel back all those years, all those troubling anxieties, and just feel young. Like a holiday from one's self.
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Post by rran on Feb 3, 2020 7:14:34 GMT
Was not sure where to put this but, it drives me up the wall when people (especially young women around my age) I do agree. I'm probably one of those young women your age (just an estimate, I may be wrong about the "age" part, though I'm young ) and 10 is my Doctor, and will always be. Not only because he was a pretty boy, but I loved his personality as a whole. It took me a while to accept 11, but 12 became my favourite right from his first episode. Right from day one, I had absolutely no problem wrt his age or looks. I mean, come on, if all versions of the Doctor had similar personalities and ages, it would be boring, wouldn't it? Which other version of the Doctor carried a whole episode on his solo shoulders? That's no mean feat by any standards. Heaven Sent, I must say, comes in my top 10 list of episodes across Doctors!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 8:30:07 GMT
Was not sure where to put this but, it drives me up the wall when people (especially young women around my age) I do agree. I'm probably one of those young women your age (just an estimate, I may be wrong about the "age" part, though I'm young ) and 10 is my Doctor, and will always be. Not only because he was a pretty boy, but I loved his personality as a whole. It took me a while to accept 11, but 12 became my favourite right from his first episode. Right from day one, I had absolutely no problem wrt his age or looks. I mean, come on, if all versions of the Doctor had similar personalities and ages, it would be boring, wouldn't it? Which other version of the Doctor carried a whole episode on his solo shoulders? That's no mean feat by any standards. Heaven Sent, I must say, comes in my top 10 list of episodes across Doctors! Different demographic, but honestly same. Heaven Sent is one of the highlights of his run. Ageism has, unfortunately, been a longstanding problem in fiction for decades. In reactions to Who and reactions elsewhere. Age somehow being misinterpreted as shorthand for "feeble". That's a fairly shallow view, I think. Very vain. It fails to take into account characters like the Twelfth Doctor, the First Doctor, Evelyn Smythe or Mrs Wibbsey. Or real world figures like William Russsell, who's still performing Big Finish at 95-years-old. It requires a different method of storytelling, perhaps one veering away from athleticism, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. Far from it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 10:14:46 GMT
As many from as far back as the old board know, Capaldi was my pick to be The Doctor a long, long time before he was cast. I mean he was clearly a perfect actor for the role and coming from my neighbourhood it would be wonderful to see "local boy does Who"...as opposed to Tennant who's from a good 6 miles away in Ralston, practically a foreigner. Still, playing devil's advocate...the show did achieve by far it's biggest successes with David and then Matt Smith in the role. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that for certain newer fans, yeah, Doctor Who was now a handsome, boyish 30-something and that's what they expected next yet again in the same way that, say, Bond fans "expect" a level of handsome actor as it's all they'd known. But let's be honest too, it wasn't just some fans thinking that - Moffat picked Capaldi personally but you just know if left to their own devices the BBC would have continued with what worked for them and we would have had, I dunno....Harry Lloyd, Sam Claflin or Max Irons as The Doctor. And hey - they might have been really good. Yet I do think it was nice for a generation to be reminded that The Doctor isn't one set thing and that the show shouldn't just be about the attractiveness of the lead despite, yeah, that being good for marketability in many ways. There were many people, even on here, saying they worried a female Doctor would be sexualised which I always thought was nonsense as it's just not part of the show. Even with those handsome Docs...they weren't objectified or cast just on looks - they were Doctors.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 10:48:59 GMT
I do agree. I'm probably one of those young women your age (just an estimate, I may be wrong about the "age" part, though I'm young ) and 10 is my Doctor, and will always be. Not only because he was a pretty boy, but I loved his personality as a whole. It took me a while to accept 11, but 12 became my favourite right from his first episode. Right from day one, I had absolutely no problem wrt his age or looks. I mean, come on, if all versions of the Doctor had similar personalities and ages, it would be boring, wouldn't it? Which other version of the Doctor carried a whole episode on his solo shoulders? That's no mean feat by any standards. Heaven Sent, I must say, comes in my top 10 list of episodes across Doctors! Different demographic, but honestly same. Heaven Sent is one of the highlights of his run. Ageism has, unfortunately, been a longstanding problem in fiction for decades. In reactions to Who and reactions elsewhere. Age somehow being misinterpreted as shorthand for "feeble". That's a fairly shallow view, I think. Very vain. It fails to take into account characters like the Twelfth Doctor, the First Doctor, Evelyn Smythe or Mrs Wibbsey. Or real world figures like William Russsell, who's still performing Big Finish at 95-years-old. It requires a different method of storytelling, perhaps one veering away from athleticism, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. Far from it. I'm not sure I'd add Capaldi's Doctor alongside Hartnell's in this debate. While very similar ages when cast, Capaldi was a much fitter, healthier 55. Capaldi, though he did need some work on his knees after his Who stint was over, managed all the running through corridors that he needed to with zero issue. Hartnell was cast in that Quatermass era where older men were almost shorthand for scientific boffins, hence casting Russ to do (literally) the heavy lifting as Ian. Today an actor as immobile as Hartnell was would almost certainly be overlooked -even when John Hurt was cast he didn't need to jog much less run, didn't need to do anything more physically taxing than walking. Anyone calling Capaldi feeble in 2014 would be plain wrong. Anyone saying it of Hartnell's Doctor...well, they'd have a point yet they'd be wrong too in a different way as being mid 50s but seeming mid 70s was kinda his thing - and he wasn't there to do the physicalities anyway outside of the odd comic bit in The Romans and the like. Essentially with Capaldi I don't think it was ageism in terms of thinking him "feeble", I think it was more shallow than that, it was on looks and on expectation. And I don't even think it's a modern bias either - if somehow there was a timeshift and the first two Doctors were Davison-McGann age and looks..would they have cast a Hartnell to follow as the third Doc?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2020 13:51:47 GMT
Different demographic, but honestly same. Heaven Sent is one of the highlights of his run. Ageism has, unfortunately, been a longstanding problem in fiction for decades. In reactions to Who and reactions elsewhere. Age somehow being misinterpreted as shorthand for "feeble". That's a fairly shallow view, I think. Very vain. It fails to take into account characters like the Twelfth Doctor, the First Doctor, Evelyn Smythe or Mrs Wibbsey. Or real world figures like William Russsell, who's still performing Big Finish at 95-years-old. It requires a different method of storytelling, perhaps one veering away from athleticism, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. Far from it. I'm not sure I'd add Capaldi's Doctor alongside Hartnell's in this debate. While very similar ages when cast, Capaldi was a much fitter, healthier 55. Capaldi, though he did need some work on his knees after his Who stint was over, managed all the running through corridors that he needed to with zero issue. Hartnell was cast in that Quatermass era where older men were almost shorthand for scientific boffins, hence casting Russ to do (literally) the heavy lifting as Ian. Today an actor as immobile as Hartnell was would almost certainly be overlooked -even when John Hurt was cast he didn't need to jog much less run, didn't need to do anything more physically taxing than walking. Anyone calling Capaldi feeble in 2014 would be plain wrong. Anyone saying it of Hartnell's Doctor...well, they'd have a point yet they'd be wrong too in a different way as being mid 50s but seeming mid 70s was kinda his thing - and he wasn't there to do the physicalities anyway outside of the odd comic bit in The Romans and the like. Essentially with Capaldi I don't think it was ageism in terms of thinking him "feeble", I think it was more shallow than that, it was on looks and on expectation. And I don't even think it's a modern bias either - if somehow there was a timeshift and the first two Doctors were Davison-McGann age and looks..would they have cast a Hartnell to follow as the third Doc? That's true, I'm talking more in the context of the characters themselves rather than the actors who played them. Hartnell's Doctor benefitted from an era of television that was still written in the style of stageplays and radio dramas, rather than the more visually cinematic bent of today. There wasn't the expectation that he'd need to be hoisted up on a harness for a zero-gravity CSO shot or have him run the length of Verdun for some location footage. It just wasn't how television handled those sorts of characters and little tricks like inclusion of the Doctor's cane helped enormously in what little athletics were required (see the fight with the robot in The Chase). Nevertheless, I've heard them both described in the same breath as their "oldness" being a limited factor. More than a bit reductionist, I think, it lacks that appropriate nuance. Well, going back to what you said about Tennant and Smith's characterisations, that's one of the things I appreciate about the Fifth Doctor. It would've been extremely easy to structure this younger incarnation around his looks, but the production office deliberately distanced him from that. The result actually enhanced the character, helping to establish his quintessential "Doctorishness", for want of a better word.
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