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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 12:15:47 GMT
I'd noticed that too. I think that might've been well earned though because he spent a lot of time in his previous incarnation and then current incarnation returning to London as a touchstone in his travels. He strikes me as the most human of all the Doctors, the one that well and truly considered the Earth his home. I did miss the unearthly qualities of the Doctor towards the end though and as many problems as I have with his eleventh incarnation, they really did make him feel as though his body was just a tawdry marionette for something much larger. Don't get me wrong I understand why RTD did it, but I think they went too far, too early on in the revival, even now you still read regular articles/rants/videos demanding the reinstating of Tennant's Doctor and/or a return to the tone of his era, I know of several people who stopped watching after he left (and I myself had trouble adapting to Sith at first due to the difference to what I percieved to be the norm for Dr Who) and Capaldi got a lot of hate from many younger fans at first because he wasn't the dashing romantic they had been lead to assume was the norm... I'm not a huge fan of Smith's Doctor either, but he hugely impressed me with his performance and quirky body language you often got the sense that there was a very old man trapped in the body of a awkward, quirky younger man. Part of the reason why he suffered I think was that he never really got the same scope of characterisation that his predecessor did. It's like Strax's comedy schtick. Terrance Dicks did a similar joke in Shakedown with Steg and it worked because it was a one-off gag: "Forgive me, Captain. All you primitives look alike to me." It's the fact that it kept appearing over and over when it wasn't really that funny to begin with was what killed Strax's character for me. Both characters after a while started to feel very one-note, lacking that nuance Ten and Nine had. He didn't have to be his predecessors -- like what the Twelfth Doctor seemed to suffer last season -- but he needed to be more than what he was.
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Post by paulmorris7777 on Apr 11, 2016 22:54:02 GMT
Same with the "We're lesbians", with Vastra and Jenny.
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Post by mrperson on Apr 12, 2016 19:11:31 GMT
Same with the "We're lesbians", with Vastra and Jenny. Not to turn this into general new series bashing, but, (1) I agree, (2) I also agree with the post you agree with, (3) I'll add a remark that it's a probably with most of Moffatt's character creations. One dimensional, with occasionally a hint at a second dimension... (ie, Jenny is also "coy", and Vastra eats bad people because silurian).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 1:15:13 GMT
As for her actions with the TARDIS key...she was grief-stricken. Messed up. To her mind in that moment, she' hadspent all this time with this friend which she could have with a boyfriend, a friend who she felt often took her for granted and who often did. In addition to what I've said, I'll add: completely inexcusable, imo. I don't care how grief-stricken someone is, if they take actions that they are certain will lead to my death, there couldn't be any forgiveness. "Who she died for once and risked her life for on countless occassions." She was a dalek, to be fair... Most people don't have access to a time machine, though.
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Post by glutamodo on Apr 13, 2016 8:03:01 GMT
Yes, even with all he seems to remember from Heaven Sent why kill this one character then not seem phased by it at all. I more didn't like Ashildr being presented as the only immortal making it until the end of time. All this from one relatively common bit of alien tech? A little late here to respond, but of the comments I've found on this thread, this one is the one I most agree with. I posted the same thoughts previously in another thread, I think. But yeah... I just could not accept only Ashildr being the sole immortal, AND talking about things that were a gazillion years ago like she remembered them well, when it was already established how badly her memory faded.
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Post by icecreamdf on Apr 13, 2016 18:00:13 GMT
Yes, even with all he seems to remember from Heaven Sent why kill this one character then not seem phased by it at all. I more didn't like Ashildr being presented as the only immortal making it until the end of time. All this from one relatively common bit of alien tech? AND talking about things that were a gazillion years ago like she remembered them well, when it was already established how badly her memory faded. She's probably been rereading her past.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 0:57:15 GMT
AND talking about things that were a gazillion years ago like she remembered them well, when it was already established how badly her memory faded. She's probably been rereading her past. The lifespan of data storage devices by the end of the universe must be amazing.
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Post by glutamodo on Apr 16, 2016 9:50:01 GMT
I would like to think so but then I think about the concepts of Entropy present in the DW Universe and it does not work for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 13:22:24 GMT
I would like to think so but then I think about the concepts of Entropy present in the DW Universe and it does not work for me. Yeah, there's... quite a number of problems with that episode unfortunately, the least of which is the issue with Ashildr being the last immortal ( Highlander-style) and her impeccably eidetic memory, which is a pretty damn big contradiction unless you chuck out The Woman Who Lived altogether.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Apr 16, 2016 14:10:13 GMT
Maybe another Timelord took Ashildir to that point (hence the chessboard) and thats why she remembered at it wasnt that long ago for her and when the Doctor turned up the other Timelord had just left or waited for them to go before he/she went back.
I knew its rubbish but its a theory lol
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Post by icecreamdf on Apr 16, 2016 15:52:10 GMT
I would like to think so but then I think about the concepts of Entropy present in the DW Universe and it does not work for me. She's talked about how with unlimited time she can learn any skill. Maybe she knows block transfer.
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Post by liam on Apr 16, 2016 16:51:24 GMT
I'm surprised to see the unpopularity of Ten and Rose. Sadly I tend to agree. Tennant's Doctor never felt Timelord enough for me, not like his predecessors. It's like they were trying to make him too relatable to the audience. But I thought that was the companions job. What really put the last nail in the coffin for me was the Water on Mars attitude he had. Kind of petulant and really annoying. Matt Smith was a breath of fresh air after 10 bit the big one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 17:04:11 GMT
Maybe another Timelord took Ashildir to that point (hence the chessboard) and thats why she remembered at it wasnt that long ago for her and when the Doctor turned up the other Timelord had just left or waited for them to go before he/she went back. I knew its rubbish but its a theory lol I missed the chessboard, that settles it then. Fenric sent her to the end of time by time storm almost immediately after the zygon story.
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Post by Ela on Apr 17, 2016 4:08:58 GMT
I'm surprised to see the unpopularity of Ten and Rose. Sadly I tend to agree. Tennant's Doctor never felt Timelord enough for me, not like his predecessors. It's like they were trying to make him too relatable to the audience. But I thought that was the companions job. What really put the last nail in the coffin for me was the Water on Mars attitude he had. Kind of petulant and really annoying. Matt Smith was a breath of fresh air after 10 bit the big one. I loved Tennant as the Tenth Doctor. Rose was okay as a companion and I enjoyed many of those episodes, but I was really annoyed by the romance aspect that was added with regard to Rose and the Tenth Doctor. I was especially annoyed at the way they turned the Doctor's relationship with Sarah Jane into an unrequited love kind of thing (which it never was in the Third and Fourth Doctor stories she was in), and the competitive/jealousy thing between Rose and Sarah Jane. Not to mention the short shrift given to Martha, who I thought was a much better, much more clever companion. And the petulant way Rose says, "I was here first" in The Stolen Earth. I felt like saying, "Grow up, girl!" The last season of episodes with Ten, after Journey's End, I just felt like the Tenth Doctor was self-destructing as a result of all his experiences in that incarnation. It was hard to watch. As much as I loved Ten, it was kind of relief to get started with Eleven by the end of all that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 4:24:24 GMT
I'm surprised to see the unpopularity of Ten and Rose. Sadly I tend to agree. Tennant's Doctor never felt Timelord enough for me, not like his predecessors. It's like they were trying to make him too relatable to the audience. But I thought that was the companions job. What really put the last nail in the coffin for me was the Water on Mars attitude he had. Kind of petulant and really annoying. Matt Smith was a breath of fresh air after 10 bit the big one. I loved Tennant as the Tenth Doctor. Rose was okay as a companion and I enjoyed many of those episodes, but I was really annoyed by the romance aspect that was added with regard to Rose and the Tenth Doctor. I was especially annoyed at the way they turned the Doctor's relationship with Sarah Jane into an unrequited love kind of thing (which it never was in the Third and Fourth Doctor stories she was in), and the competitive/jealousy thing between Rose and Sarah Jane. Not to mention the short shrift given to Martha, who I thought was a much better, much more clever companion. And the petulant way Rose says, "I was here first" in The Stolen Earth. I felt like saying, "Grow up, girl!" The last season of episodes with Ten, after Journey's End, I just felt like the Tenth Doctor was self-destructing as a result of all his experiences in that incarnation. It was hard to watch. As much as I loved Ten, it was kind of relief to get started with Eleven by the end of all that. The Tenth Doctor wasn't an infallible man by any stretch of the imagination (Hell, I think it's why people liked him so much) but despite his assertions that he didn't want to go, it was honestly the best time for him to do so. His incarnation lived a good long life both on and off-screen and it was time to rest him. He bowed out in the same way that Seven did. It wasn't good, just or even happy in terms of endings, but it was the right one to do. At least, the poor tormented soul didn't go kicking and screaming at the very last moment. It was all rather dignified in its own way and wrapped up his character arc nicely. It was a very keen idea with the Eleventh Doctor to jettison all that angst and take a different tac on wandering the universe. Less so, to be the one who pointed fingers at other incarnations to make it their responsibility, but two out of three isn't bad. I would like to think so but then I think about the concepts of Entropy present in the DW Universe and it does not work for me. She's talked about how with unlimited time she can learn any skill. Maybe she knows block transfer. If block transfer computations can fix The Twin Dilemma, they can fix anything and I speak as someone who actually likes a large chunk of that story.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 20:25:03 GMT
I'm surprised to see the unpopularity of Ten and Rose. Sadly I tend to agree. Tennant's Doctor never felt Timelord enough for me, not like his predecessors. It's like they were trying to make him too relatable to the audience. But I thought that was the companions job. What really put the last nail in the coffin for me was the Water on Mars attitude he had. Kind of petulant and really annoying. Matt Smith was a breath of fresh air after 10 bit the big one. I loved Tennant as the Tenth Doctor. Rose was okay as a companion and I enjoyed many of those episodes, but I was really annoyed by the romance aspect that was added with regard to Rose and the Tenth Doctor. I was especially annoyed at the way they turned the Doctor's relationship with Sarah Jane into an unrequited love kind of thing (which it never was in the Third and Fourth Doctor stories she was in), and the competitive/jealousy thing between Rose and Sarah Jane. Not to mention the short shrift given to Martha, who I thought was a much better, much more clever companion. And the petulant way Rose says, "I was here first" in The Stolen Earth. I felt like saying, "Grow up, girl!" The last season of episodes with Ten, after Journey's End, I just felt like the Tenth Doctor was self-destructing as a result of all his experiences in that incarnation. It was hard to watch. As much as I loved Ten, it was kind of relief to get started with Eleven by the end of all that. From Journey's End we technically have a new Doctor, also played by David Tennant, but no longer really the Doctor we'd been watching for the last three years. This new Doctor is a much darker character, always travelling alone, and as you say very much coming off the rails by the end.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 0:33:15 GMT
I really don't like the way Vastra treats Clara in Deep Breath. Yes, she wasn't privy to the events of The Time of The Doctor, but Clara had effectively seen her friend 'die' and being replaced by an enterily different man. Yes, she was trying to get her up to speed to help The Doctor through his regeneration, but some care and compassion would have been nice.
And the 'not like the other girls' speech from Clara REALLY grates.
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 1:21:33 GMT
From Journey's End we technically have a new Doctor, also played by David Tennant, but no longer really the Doctor we'd been watching for the last three years. This new Doctor is a much darker character, always travelling alone, and as you say very much coming off the rails by the end. "Coming off the rails" is a good way to put it. I really don't like the way Vastra treats Clara in Deep Breath. Yes, she wasn't privy to the events of The Time of The Doctor, but Clara had effectively seen her friend 'die' and being replaced by an enterily different man. Yes, she was trying to get her up to speed to help The Doctor through his regeneration, but some care and compassion would have been nice.
And the 'not like the other girls' speech from Clara REALLY grates. Yeah, I wasn't too crazy about Vastra's approach myself. Very patronizing, I thought, and not really respecting Clara's feelings. I'm trying to remember the "not like the other girls" speech and failing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 2:05:23 GMT
I really don't like the way Vastra treats Clara in Deep Breath. Yes, she wasn't privy to the events of The Time of The Doctor, but Clara had effectively seen her friend 'die' and being replaced by an entirely different man. Yes, she was trying to get her up to speed to help The Doctor through his regeneration, but some care and compassion would have been nice. Vastra doesn't strike me as a particularly compassionate soul. Waking up several hundred years later to find that your entire world has been overrun by vermin and that many of them are killing your own kind would probably have soured her attitude towards humans in general. In Silurian times they destroyed crops and were hunted for sport, it'd be like waking up and discovering that your farm has been overrun by intelligent locusts. How you feel about them on an individual-by-individual basis is irrelevant because that innate cultural prejudice is still there. Her relationship with Jenny seems more of an exception rather than a rule, being more of a person in her eyes rather than an ape that's gotten high above its established station. And the 'not like the other girls' speech from Clara REALLY grates. The "Clara, I'm not your boyfriend," angle really does come straight out of nowhere. So much so, that I am very tempted to believe that the writers were trying to speak to a particular demographic in the audience through Vastra to Clara. It's like a conversation between a longtime fan of the show and a shipper of Eleven/Clara. I remember sitting in the cinema and thinking: "Okay... You're not talking to me and you're not really talking to Clara, who are you talking to?"
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Post by Ela on Apr 20, 2016 2:13:31 GMT
The "Clara, I'm not your boyfriend," angle really does come straight out of nowhere. So much so, that I am very tempted to believe that the writers were trying to speak to a particular demographic in the audience through Vastra to Clara. It's like a conversation between a longtime fan of the show and a shipper of Eleven/Clara. I remember sitting in the cinema and thinking: "Okay... You're not talking to me and you're not really talking to Clara, who are you talking to?" Yeah, that was just weird. Like, when did Clara ever think the Doctor was her boyfriend?
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