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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 11:49:57 GMT
Well, I do not feel comfortable now knowing that we have members who think it is proper to complain secretly to the mods that someone else is too helpful and too ready to post updates, news and the like.
Such private reporting should imo be used only for the sort of internet nastiness of which DU is thankfully free - to use it to complain that another member is too active (and active in ways intended to be wholly positive) is, at best, snowflakery of a considerable degree. At worst, such secret reporting of mere 'uncomfortableness' with nothing more than "over-activity" feels to me the sort of thing one might expect in the People's Republic of Divergia, not a liberal forum where we presumably all believe in freedom of speech.
If people think any member is really too active in any area, to the detriment of others, then let them have the courage and honesty to say so politely and openly. Or better still, let them contribute posts themselves and be welcomed for doing so. To me, DU feels an inclusive and welcoming forum and it has done since I was a very new member; people who had (and have) far more knowledge of BF and Who that I do were welcoming and friendly in response to my newbie posts and this told me that I had found the right 'home' for sharing my enjoyment of the Whoniverse.
However, I no longer post news items or updates following earlier 'complaints' about the running joke that was (non-existent) Updates Club. I put that down to a difference in senses of humour, which is always a possible issue online, and changed my behaviour accordingly.
At present I am still comfortable posting my opinions, so I have.
As someone who has had more than a few crossed words with mods over the years.....I'm gonna buck the trend and say I'm more on their side here in this one. With the caveat that I have ZERO issue with news being reported in a few places within reason. So, say, a BF sale on the Dark Shadows range. Ideally it'd only need to be posted on the BF Updates page but that can move fast and someone who only checks the DS board might miss it so a headsup on that subforum makes sense to me. More than that and yeah...I can see why the mods have issues at least in light of the fact that they've asked a thousand times by this point. It doesn't matter if it doesn't annoy us - if it annoys others and the mods deem it to be against the forum rules our annoyance - or lack therof - is irrelevant. If I'm reading what Colin wrote correctly, these posters who report things already feel like they're not allowed to join in so much and it's a closed shop with certain people in a cliquish hierarchy. If they do, asking them to stand up and shout out when they see something "wrong" I think that would surely be more than a bit daunting for them. Reading posts kinda mocking them, calling them snowflakes and telling them we don't live in a dictatorship...all for reporting posts isn't going to do much to bolster any inclusivity or confidence that they're part of the gang. They're not the classroom swot who has gone to tell teacher what the bad kids are up to - reporting posts to moderators far from being sneaky is perfectly valid internet etiquette. As Tuigirl said I don't think there was anything as sinister about their reporting it as your post would suggest. There was a poster here who I won't name but most of you will remember who constantly accused me of bullying him in my posts and all I had to say was "If you think so....tell the mods". He did and the mods shut him down. That's the done thing online if something is against the rules, sending it up the chain, and I don't think these people should be belittled for doing so - you report rather than confront. Now I'll admit to hypocrisy there as I've had more than one argument on here with a few people but when I got into really big arguments with those posters (both now banned), I got severe slap downs from the mods too for getting into it with them rather than take the time to follow the process of reporting over confronting. As to whether whether any of this is indeed against the rules, well, the mods don't just react because people complain but because they've got valid complaints. We've had Ela and Colin saying "stop it" here, Aussie liking their posts so presumably agreeing so...I'm guessing yes - the mods agree with the people reporting things. It's not as though this hasn't come up time and time again. One poster kept refusing to cut down on it to the extent he got a "warning level" on his profile which is only for quite serious and persistent breaches and hasn't been seen in months so it's something they have taken action on too, not just posted frustrated words. Agree 100%
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 12:34:09 GMT
In news that will surprise absolutely nobody considering they were giving away the last few copies, Dalek Empire 3.5 : The Warriors is finally, totally and absolutely 100% OOP.
Which out of all four series of Dalek Empire just leaves Death To The Daleks! (Dalek Empire 1.3) still in stock.
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Post by number13 on Aug 18, 2019 13:07:44 GMT
Well, I do not feel comfortable now knowing that we have members who think it is proper to complain secretly to the mods that someone else is too helpful and too ready to post updates, news and the like.
Such private reporting should imo be used only for the sort of internet nastiness of which DU is thankfully free - to use it to complain that another member is too active (and active in ways intended to be wholly positive) is, at best, snowflakery of a considerable degree. At worst, such secret reporting of mere 'uncomfortableness' with nothing more than "over-activity" feels to me the sort of thing one might expect in the People's Republic of Divergia, not a liberal forum where we presumably all believe in freedom of speech.
If people think any member is really too active in any area, to the detriment of others, then let them have the courage and honesty to say so politely and openly. Or better still, let them contribute posts themselves and be welcomed for doing so. To me, DU feels an inclusive and welcoming forum and it has done since I was a very new member; people who had (and have) far more knowledge of BF and Who that I do were welcoming and friendly in response to my newbie posts and this told me that I had found the right 'home' for sharing my enjoyment of the Whoniverse.
However, I no longer post news items or updates following earlier 'complaints' about the running joke that was (non-existent) Updates Club. I put that down to a difference in senses of humour, which is always a possible issue online, and changed my behaviour accordingly.
At present I am still comfortable posting my opinions, so I have.
As someone who has had more than a few crossed words with mods over the years.....I'm gonna buck the trend and say I'm more on their side here in this one. With the caveat that I have ZERO issue with news being reported in a few places within reason. So, say, a BF sale on the Dark Shadows range. Ideally it'd only need to be posted on the BF Updates page but that can move fast and someone who only checks the DS board might miss it so a headsup on that subforum makes sense to me. More than that and yeah...I can see why the mods have issues at least in light of the fact that they've asked a thousand times by this point. It doesn't matter if it doesn't annoy us - if it annoys others and the mods deem it to be against the forum rules our annoyance - or lack therof - is irrelevant. If I'm reading what Colin wrote correctly, these posters who report things already feel like they're not allowed to join in so much and it's a closed shop with certain people in a cliquish hierarchy. If they do, asking them to stand up and shout out when they see something "wrong" I think that would surely be more than a bit daunting for them. Reading posts kinda mocking them, calling them snowflakes and telling them we don't live in a dictatorship...all for reporting posts isn't going to do much to bolster any inclusivity or confidence that they're part of the gang. They're not the classroom swot who has gone to tell teacher what the bad kids are up to - reporting posts to moderators far from being sneaky is perfectly valid internet etiquette. As Tuigirl said I don't think there was anything as sinister about their reporting it as your post would suggest. There was a poster here who I won't name but most of you will remember who constantly accused me of bullying him in my posts and all I had to say was "If you think so....tell the mods". He did and the mods shut him down. That's the done thing online if something is against the rules, sending it up the chain, and I don't think these people should be belittled for doing so - you report rather than confront. Now I'll admit to hypocrisy there as I've had more than one argument on here with a few people but when I got into really big arguments with those posters (both now banned), I got severe slap downs from the mods too for getting into it with them rather than take the time to follow the process of reporting over confronting. As to whether whether any of this is indeed against the rules, well, the mods don't just react because people complain but because they've got valid complaints. We've had Ela and Colin saying "stop it" here, Aussie liking their posts so presumably agreeing so...I'm guessing yes - the mods agree with the people reporting things. It's not as though this hasn't come up time and time again. One poster kept refusing to cut down on it to the extent he got a "warning level" on his profile which is only for quite serious and persistent breaches and hasn't been seen in months so it's something they have taken action on too, not just posted frustrated words. Um, so my post was at fault too and made things worse for the (unknown) people who were already feeling excluded by too much enthusiasm and activity from other posters? Well, that's that then, thank you for your frankness and I have noted that the mods agree with you.
If this was all about excessive duplicate posts, well, that is a rule breach if pushed beyond a certain point; I must say the practice doesn't bother me either but it is a rule breach and we all know that, so criticism on that score could obviously be justified in some circumstances.
What annoyed me was that (if I'm understanding coffeeaddict's post) people were not only complaining about duplicate posts/threads, which would be fair enough under the rules, but also complaining about feeling excluded by a poster who was too active for their liking and made them feel excluded by the mere fact of that activity.
Being too active and too quick (for some people's liking) to post information is not a rule breach.
In my experience, when people complain that 'X does too much' in voluntary bodies/groups of any kind, if X stops doing 'too much' then Y and Z very rarely step up and fill the vacuum. (For the avoidance of doubt, I am Y or Z, never X. But I don't complain about the Xs of this world, I am grateful to them and just try to add my bit when I can.)
EDIT: I hope this post is OK with everyone, it wasn't the one I intended to send but after hovering for a few minutes, it seemed the better option.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 13:27:14 GMT
Random questions on a Sunday morning. The Mervyn Stone Mysteries. If I went for the books and the CD would they be money well spent? Oh yes! The Mervyn Stone stories are definitely worth it.
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Aug 18, 2019 13:29:57 GMT
Don't fret over it number13, I don't think much harm has been done.
If people feel excluded then I can't argue with that, but in the grand scheme of things this is a very polite and respectful forum.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 13:33:44 GMT
Showing someone where they can buy Fly Me to the Moon isn't helping them out... !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 15:26:12 GMT
While browsing through the sale page for the umpteenth time trying to decide just what Dark Shadows titles I want (so many gaps, so little time...) I've spotted that Gallifrey 2.2 : Spirit is now OOP.
Which leaves just 1.1 : Weapon Of Choice, 1.2 : Square One and 1.3 : The Inquiry still in stock.
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Post by rran on Aug 18, 2019 15:39:38 GMT
Showing someone where they can buy Fly Me to the Moon isn't helping them out... ! What is it about “Fly me to the moon”? I’ve been hearing about it for the last couple of years, and everytime my curiosity goes up a notch 😂
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 18, 2019 16:27:17 GMT
What annoyed me was that (if I'm understanding coffeeaddict's post) people were not only complaining about duplicate posts/threads, which would be fair enough under the rules, but also complaining about feeling excluded by a poster who was too active for their liking and made them feel excluded by the mere fact of that activity. Being too active and too quick (for some people's liking) to post information is not a rule breach.
In my experience, when people complain that 'X does too much' in voluntary bodies/groups of any kind, if X stops doing 'too much' then Y and Z very rarely step up and fill the vacuum. (For the avoidance of doubt, I am Y or Z, never X. But I don't complain about the Xs of this world, I am grateful to them and just try to add my bit when I can.) For what it's worth, I'm very much in agreement with this. I'm extremely grateful for the amazing amount of information that mark687 has faithfully posted for years now, and I would think that deserves commendation and thanks far more than reprimand. (For me, better still if there is some cross-posting because I just don't get to read every thread every day). I've noted however that others have been able to post news and info on a regular basis in spite of mark687's valliant efforts (dangerwillrobinson, for example). There doesn't seem to be any monopoly and I guess maybe it does raise questions whether the persons making complaints would have willing and able to fill in the gap if things were different. In fact, I'm not sure I even understand the complaint about it appearing as if it's an "assigned" duty to post news items, I'd think someone would already have to know better to make a complaint? With all due respect and thanks to our esteemed moderators, maybe sometimes it would be better to leave it be than to have the thread derailed by calling someone out on it? Anyway, thanks again to anyone and everyone who's been working hard at keeping us up to date on things, it is much appreciated.
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 18, 2019 16:29:59 GMT
What is it about “Fly me to the moon”? I’ve been hearing about it for the last couple of years, and everytime my curiosity goes up a notch 😂 You know, I've never figured that out. Aside from the fact that I associate Sylvester and India so much with their Doctor Who roles that to me it would probably sound like the Seventh Doctor having an inappropriate relationship with Charlotte Pollard (probably why I've avoided it myself), I bet it's probably pretty good?
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Post by rran on Aug 18, 2019 16:38:03 GMT
What is it about “Fly me to the moon”? I’ve been hearing about it for the last couple of years, and everytime my curiosity goes up a notch 😂 You know, I've never figured that out. Aside from the fact that I associate Sylvester and India so much with their Doctor Who roles that to me it would probably sound like the Seventh Doctor having an inappropriate relationship with Charlotte Pollard (probably why I've avoided it myself), I bet it's probably pretty good? Oh, I’ve heard nothing but sarcasm about it
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 18:52:36 GMT
As someone who has had more than a few crossed words with mods over the years.....I'm gonna buck the trend and say I'm more on their side here in this one. With the caveat that I have ZERO issue with news being reported in a few places within reason. So, say, a BF sale on the Dark Shadows range. Ideally it'd only need to be posted on the BF Updates page but that can move fast and someone who only checks the DS board might miss it so a headsup on that subforum makes sense to me. More than that and yeah...I can see why the mods have issues at least in light of the fact that they've asked a thousand times by this point. It doesn't matter if it doesn't annoy us - if it annoys others and the mods deem it to be against the forum rules our annoyance - or lack therof - is irrelevant. If I'm reading what Colin wrote correctly, these posters who report things already feel like they're not allowed to join in so much and it's a closed shop with certain people in a cliquish hierarchy. If they do, asking them to stand up and shout out when they see something "wrong" I think that would surely be more than a bit daunting for them. Reading posts kinda mocking them, calling them snowflakes and telling them we don't live in a dictatorship...all for reporting posts isn't going to do much to bolster any inclusivity or confidence that they're part of the gang. They're not the classroom swot who has gone to tell teacher what the bad kids are up to - reporting posts to moderators far from being sneaky is perfectly valid internet etiquette. As Tuigirl said I don't think there was anything as sinister about their reporting it as your post would suggest. There was a poster here who I won't name but most of you will remember who constantly accused me of bullying him in my posts and all I had to say was "If you think so....tell the mods". He did and the mods shut him down. That's the done thing online if something is against the rules, sending it up the chain, and I don't think these people should be belittled for doing so - you report rather than confront. Now I'll admit to hypocrisy there as I've had more than one argument on here with a few people but when I got into really big arguments with those posters (both now banned), I got severe slap downs from the mods too for getting into it with them rather than take the time to follow the process of reporting over confronting. As to whether whether any of this is indeed against the rules, well, the mods don't just react because people complain but because they've got valid complaints. We've had Ela and Colin saying "stop it" here, Aussie liking their posts so presumably agreeing so...I'm guessing yes - the mods agree with the people reporting things. It's not as though this hasn't come up time and time again. One poster kept refusing to cut down on it to the extent he got a "warning level" on his profile which is only for quite serious and persistent breaches and hasn't been seen in months so it's something they have taken action on too, not just posted frustrated words. Um, so my post was at fault too and made things worse for the (unknown) people who were already feeling excluded by too much enthusiasm and activity from other posters? Well, that's that then, thank you for your frankness and I have noted that the mods agree with you.
If this was all about excessive duplicate posts, well, that is a rule breach if pushed beyond a certain point; I must say the practice doesn't bother me either but it is a rule breach and we all know that, so criticism on that score could obviously be justified in some circumstances.
What annoyed me was that (if I'm understanding coffeeaddict's post) people were not only complaining about duplicate posts/threads, which would be fair enough under the rules, but also complaining about feeling excluded by a poster who was too active for their liking and made them feel excluded by the mere fact of that activity.
Being too active and too quick (for some people's liking) to post information is not a rule breach.
In my experience, when people complain that 'X does too much' in voluntary bodies/groups of any kind, if X stops doing 'too much' then Y and Z very rarely step up and fill the vacuum. (For the avoidance of doubt, I am Y or Z, never X. But I don't complain about the Xs of this world, I am grateful to them and just try to add my bit when I can.)
EDIT: I hope this post is OK with everyone, it wasn't the one I intended to send but after hovering for a few minutes, it seemed the better option.
I think you made the right call. For the record, I agree with you. I think the mods coming down on members for being too engaged or too excited to share things on the forum would be gatekeeping in and of itself. The exact opposite of a moderator's role. Personally, I don't see an issue with mark687's posting of the news either. As barnabaslives says, he's one of our best assets on the forum and I'm confident, based on his behaviour here and elsewhere, that it isn't about control. That'd be out of character. It's much more about sharing, both the information and the supply thereof. Based on prior experience, I don't think that curbing someone else's enjoyment was considered legitimate grounds for action. It certainly isn't. What the mods are responding to are longstanding concerns about duplicate posts/threads in general. I still think that a board to group together the News threads would be a good idea. It would minimise duplication and I can't see people like mark being any less than friendly to anyone wanting to post.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 18, 2019 19:22:05 GMT
Random questions on a Sunday morning. The Mervyn Stone Mysteries. If I went for the books and the CD would they be money well spent? Oh yes! The Mervyn Stone stories are definitely worth it. I ordered the books as well. I love the audio version and hoped the Big Finish Originals range would have opened the door to full cast adventures. A genre/comedy/mystery series is something I would want to buy and when you have writers like Nev Fountain, Robert Shearman & Eddie Robson on speed dial, well, it is something I wish would happen.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 18, 2019 19:23:53 GMT
Based on prior experience, I don't think that curbing someone else's enjoyment was considered legitimate grounds for action. It certainly isn't. What the mods are responding to are longstanding concerns about duplicate posts/threads in general. I still think that a board to group together the News threads would be a good idea. It would minimize duplication and I can't see people like mark being any less than friendly to anyone wanting to post. This 100%
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:23:24 GMT
Showing someone where they can buy Fly Me to the Moon isn't helping them out... ! What is it about “Fly me to the moon”? I’ve been hearing about it for the last couple of years, and everytime my curiosity goes up a notch 😂 As I've had my medication today I'll be nice and say Fly Me to the Moon is an aqquired taste! Being serious; I think comedy is a hard genre to make recommendations on to other people as what one person finds funny another person might not. Humour is subjective. I purchased Fly Me to the Moon at a time when I bought every CD that Big Finish released but upon listening to it I found that it wasn't my style of humour and the play just didn't work for me. The people producing it obviously thought it was entertaining, I didn't. Maybe a lot of other people weren't so impressed with it either as the Big Finish Comedy range didn't seem go much further. So for me I'd say Fly Me to the Moon is for completionists only.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:45:23 GMT
If this was all about excessive duplicate posts, well, that is a rule breach if pushed beyond a certain point; I must say the practice doesn't bother me either but it is a rule breach and we all know that, so criticism on that score could obviously be justified in some circumstances.
What annoyed me was that (if I'm understanding coffeeaddict's post) people were not only complaining about duplicate posts/threads, which would be fair enough under the rules, but also complaining about feeling excluded by a poster who was too active for their liking and made them feel excluded by the mere fact of that activity. [...] Being too active and too quick (for some people's liking) to post information is not a rule breach.
Personally, I don't see an issue with mark687 's posting of the news either. As barnabaslives says, he's one of our best assets on the forum and I'm confident, based on his behaviour here and elsewhere, that it isn't about control. That'd be out of character. It's much more about sharing, both the information and the supply thereof. Based on prior experience, I don't think that curbing someone else's enjoyment was considered legitimate grounds for action. It certainly isn't. What the mods are responding to are longstanding concerns about duplicate posts/threads in general. I still think that a board to group together the News threads would be a good idea. It would minimise duplication and I can't see people like mark being any less than friendly to anyone wanting to post. It's disappointing to think that some people might feel excluded here, as this is one of the nicest forums I've ever been on and everybody can play a role here. I don't care who posts news, but duplicate posts of the same news were a problem here not so long ago... this behaviour seems to have died down of late so it's not a problem anymore. So the mods here have done a great job in getting us to that posistion and keeping this place nice and calm. This is a well run forum that we can all feel proud of. I do think grouping news threads together is a good idea and I hope that it is looked in to. I do hope that nobody here, be they long term members, newbies or lurkers think they can't post news here though. However news can only be new information once, so that will always be on a first come first served situation when posting news on to a forum... if Member X gets there first, that's the way it is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 23:34:02 GMT
Personally, I don't see an issue with mark687 's posting of the news either. As barnabaslives says, he's one of our best assets on the forum and I'm confident, based on his behaviour here and elsewhere, that it isn't about control. That'd be out of character. It's much more about sharing, both the information and the supply thereof. Based on prior experience, I don't think that curbing someone else's enjoyment was considered legitimate grounds for action. It certainly isn't. What the mods are responding to are longstanding concerns about duplicate posts/threads in general. I still think that a board to group together the News threads would be a good idea. It would minimise duplication and I can't see people like mark being any less than friendly to anyone wanting to post. It's disappointing to think that some people might feel excluded here, as this is one of the nicest forums I've ever been on and everybody can play a role here. I don't care who posts news, but duplicate posts of the same news were a problem here not so long ago... this behaviour seems to have died down of late so it's not a problem anymore. So the mods here have done a great job in getting us to that posistion and keeping this place nice and calm. This is a well run forum that we can all feel proud of. I do think grouping news threads together is a good idea and I hope that it is looked in to. I do hope that nobody here, be they long term members, newbies or lurkers think they can't post news here though. However news can only be new information once, so that will always be on a first come first served situation when posting news on to a forum... if Member X gets there first, that's the way it is. I also agree news is, well, news - and the faster it's posted here the more "newsworthy" it is - and Mark clearly has the time and passion to dedicate to keeping up with BF's updates at hours I certainly couldn't so I say more power to him. Number13 is right - if Mark's post help get more eyes on the stories and result in more sales for BF then that's absolutely great. I'm trying to look at it from an outsider's perspective and you, I, Number13 and others may well think it's one of the nicest forums going yet we're far from being newbies so our perspectives will be entirely different from someone stumbling in. We do bicker, sure, but it's all very much on topic bickering. If there's ever more ways to make the forum more welcoming I think that is something we should all consider. We don't have a lot of new members who stick around and maybe that's something we can all look at and ask why. It's not nice to know some people are reading our words thinking we're somehow excluding them, I hope that we get some reading this who feel a bit more confident posting.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 0:01:32 GMT
What is it about “Fly me to the moon”? I’ve been hearing about it for the last couple of years, and everytime my curiosity goes up a notch 😂 As I've had my medication today I'll be nice and say Fly Me to the Moon is an aqquired taste! Being serious; I think comedy is a hard genre to make recommendations on to other people as what one person finds funny another person might not. Humour is subjective. I purchased Fly Me to the Moon at a time when I bought every CD that Big Finish released but upon listening to it I found that it wasn't my style of humour and the play just didn't work for me. The people producing it obviously thought it was entertaining, I didn't. Maybe a lot of other people weren't so impressed with it either as the Big Finish Comedy range didn't seem go much further. So for me I'd say Fly Me to the Moon is for completionists only. I'll add my agreement to this - Fly Me isn't funny and is massively forced with neither India nor Sylv sounding comfortable or convincing. I think out and out comedy is possibly the biggest area BF almost completely ignore. Before I get the "but what about...." yeah, there are many, many humorous audios, some with hilarious parts and single releases in all sorts of ranges that would be comedies but they've never really done an actual comedy range or series that I can think of. When they've tried things.... The Treason Show is even worse than Fly Me To The Moon and I'm not sure that's even just subjectivity - most people who did listen didn't seem to care for either one. Yet I think these were just bad releases. It doesn't mean that good comedy wouldn't catch on. The Mervyn Stone audio was terrific fun but as I understand that didn't fly off the shelves either so perhaps they just don't see evidence there's a market. Comedy is probably the only area that BBC audio whoop BF in. What I wouldn't give to get a sitcom series like Cabin Pressure with BF. That's a tall order as that was a massive hit but it was a sleeper hit to begin with. Other shows like Old Harry's Game, Party, Clare In The Community, Absolute Power, Count Arthur Strong and others have all been hits for the BBC on audio while BF has been going so there's clearly audio fans looking for comedy out there. Will they PAY for it though, that's the issue. If BF do another batch of Originals, I'd love to see an out and out comedy in any bundle to at least test the waters.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 8:17:17 GMT
Sales page has updated in the last fifteen minutes.
Cyberman : Conversion, Doctor Who : Thicker Than Water and Destiny Of The Doctor : Enemy Aliens have now all gone OOP.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Aug 19, 2019 11:40:20 GMT
While browsing through the sale page for the umpteenth time trying to decide just what Dark Shadows titles I want (so many gaps, so little time...) I've spotted that Gallifrey 2.2 : Spirit is now OOP. Which leaves just 1.1 : Weapon Of Choice, 1.2 : Square One and 1.3 : The Inquiry still in stock. So all of Series 3 is OOP now?
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