dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Dec 21, 2016 8:34:11 GMT
(Although I agree with an above post. If Patience is supposed to be The Doctor's wife, shouldn't it have been a bigger deal in the story?) This is a problem which happened with the adaptation of Nightshade too. There were criticisms that the Doctor's character was too morose, but it makes sense if you've followed what happened recently with the Timewyrm books. Cold Fusion was originally published as a novel in December 1996, whereas Lungbarrow was later released in March 1997. Her presence largely relies upon information and background that was put front and centre in Time's Crucible, building off of Pythia's Curse and the dawn of Rassilon's Age of Reason in preparation for that final Seventh Doctor novel. Despite appearances to the contrary, you're actually dropping right into the middle of a myth arc that you haven't seen the whole of yet. It's like Roz's intimation about Unitatus belonging to a secret order that she, Chris and the Doctor have been trying to stop throughout history -- that's actually a reference to the Brotherhood arc that was going on in the New Adventures at the time. It's a credit to Lance Parkin's writing that the loss of context actually doesn't matter that much. It still makes for a really awesome story. The precise identity of Patience is intended to be ambiguous. Not quite sure why the blurb isn't...
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Post by omega on Dec 21, 2016 8:53:26 GMT
This is a problem which happened with the adaptation of Nightshade too. There were criticisms that the Doctor's character was too morose, but it makes sense if you've followed what happened recently with the Timewyrm books. Cold Fusion was originally published as a novel in December 1996, whereas Lungbarrow was later released in March 1997. Her presence largely relies upon information and background that was put front and centre in Time's Crucible, building off of Pythia's Curse and the dawn of Rassilon's Age of Reason in preparation for that final Seventh Doctor novel. Despite appearances to the contrary, you're actually dropping right into the middle of a myth arc that you haven't seen the whole of yet. It's like Roz's intimation about Unitatus belonging to a secret order that she, Chris and the Doctor have been trying to stop throughout history -- that's actually a reference to the Brotherhood arc that was going on in the New Adventures at the time. It's a credit to Lance Parkin's writing that the loss of context actually doesn't matter that much. It still makes for a really awesome story. The precise identity of Patience is intended to be ambiguous. Not quite sure why the blurb isn't... The blurb did seem rather short compared the usual promotional synopses. You'd think a multi-Doctor story would be a big enough hook without mentioning something which is only vaguely mentioned in the actual audio.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 13:18:55 GMT
The precise identity of Patience is intended to be ambiguous. Not quite sure why the blurb isn't... Yeah, that kind of threw me too. Hook for potential listeners maybe? There's no real right or wrong answer when it comes to Patience.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 21, 2016 16:24:22 GMT
(Although I agree with an above post. If Patience is supposed to be The Doctor's wife, shouldn't it have been a bigger deal in the story?) Based on the various comments about Lungbarrow, it sounds like the most plausible explanation is supposed to be that Patience was the wife of one of this "other's" prior regeneration cycles, the Doctor we know being the latest cycle. So, sort of his wife but also not. Didn't make much sense to me when I listened to it because I was unfamiliar with all that. It was Peter Davison talking, and Patience responded "you're wearing my husband's ring" and he responded affirmatively, but then there seemed to be no recognition of that exchange by him once they were out of contact. Soo...I dunno. They probably ought to change the blurb, which still reads in part, "A newly regenerated Fifth Doctor arrives on an occupied ice planet – where the Seventh Doctor is investigating dangerous energy experiments conducted by the Earth Empire. But events spin out of control when a refugee from the distant past arrives - Patience, the Doctor's Wife!"
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 21, 2016 21:22:42 GMT
Whether you like looms or not, the reason why the audio is so vague and confused about the backstory is that the novel itself is vague and confusing when it comes to who Patience is and what her history with the Doctor is. {Spoiler} Their memories are fractured, and admittedly contradictory, and much of it (as has been pointed out) doesn't really get explained till at least "Lungbarrow", if not "The Infinity Doctors", and in some cases probably not at all. And even the corroborative material in these latter books isn't reliable ("Lungbarrow"'s relevations are presented in such a way that they might not necesarily true; in "The Infinity Doctors", Patience never left Gallifrey at all and eventually married the Doctor when he was a young man). What's interesting is the update of the final conversation in the novel as to why the Doctor doesn't remember previous meet-ups. It's gibberish in the book, and the audio isn't much clearer! How many times did he/they meet Omega, anyway?!!
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Post by Hieronymus on Dec 22, 2016 0:56:59 GMT
Just finished episode 1, which was a lovely start.
Favorite moment: Doctor #7 disabling the war droid.
Most clever design: Using the the trill sound of a woodwind instrument characteristic of the early Davison stories to let the listener know the action has shifted to the the Fifth Doctor and his companions.
Biggest letdown: Nyssa telling the Doctor "You shouldn't be touching that; it's Hedera helix," and the Doctor responding that Time Lord physiology doesn't react badly to poison ivy. Why was this a letdown? Hedera helix is the scientific name for English ivy, not poison ivy, and English ivy is innocuous to human touch.
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Post by Hieronymus on Dec 22, 2016 3:20:02 GMT
Just finished episode 2, which contained more than a little humor.
Favorite moment: There were so many wonderful little moments this episode: Adric taking the Doctor down a peg, the Doctor reliving his memories of previous generations, Nyssa walking in on Chris, and Tegan upset over meeting a "fake" Jovanka. Most clever design: When Tegan states she fine as long as it's not Adric, Nyssa replies, "There's nothing wrong with the name", which is a nice continuity touch.
Biggest letdown: We finally get mention of genetic looms and Lungbarrow, but with plausible deniability. So, it can be argued that no definitive stance has been taken, despite what the Doctor says.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 8:07:30 GMT
What's interesting is the update of the final conversation in the novel as to why the Doctor doesn't remember previous meet-ups. It's gibberish in the book, and the audio isn't much clearer! How many times did he/they meet Omega, anyway?!! Omega? Let's see... There's The Three Doctors, Arc of Infinity, Omega and Search for the Doctor. One adventure for his second and third incarnations, two for his fifth and one for his sixth incarnation (with K9 and Drax in tow). There's also The Infinity Doctors which hasn't happened for either Doctor yet (or possibly ever), so they're unaware of it.
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Post by acousticwolf on Dec 22, 2016 13:15:12 GMT
Well that was a very pleasant way to spend three hours. I'm not sure I subscribe to the Looms or Patience, but the story was great (and I assume fairly faithful to the book).
A good end to a nice range
Cheers
Tony
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Post by doctoroftardis on Dec 22, 2016 15:07:56 GMT
I really liked this one but it was really not what I was expecting. I was hoping more references to looms and The Other and Patience's past and stuff but still it was a good one.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Dec 22, 2016 18:07:46 GMT
What's interesting is the update of the final conversation in the novel as to why the Doctor doesn't remember previous meet-ups. It's gibberish in the book, and the audio isn't much clearer! How many times did he/they meet Omega, anyway?!! Omega? Let's see... There's The Three Doctors, Arc of Infinity, Omega and Search for the Doctor. But here's the thing, they're talking about meeting Omega in the context of multi-Doctor stories. "Now, both times we met Omega that was strict Blinovitch conservation" "That was true all X times, but that doesn't apply here" In the book, X = 3. In the audio, X = 4. I suppose it may be a reference to the number of televised multi-Doctor stories (except I can think of 6 that meet that criteria), but I still reckon that speech is a bit confused.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2016 23:46:27 GMT
Omega? Let's see... There's The Three Doctors, Arc of Infinity, Omega and Search for the Doctor. But here's the thing, they're talking about meeting Omega in the context of multi-Doctor stories. "Now, both times we met Omega that was strict Blinovitch conservation" "That was true all X times, but that doesn't apply here" In the book, X = 3. In the audio, X = 4. I suppose it may be a reference to the number of televised multi-Doctor stories (except I can think of 6 that meet that criteria), but I still reckon that speech is a bit confused. In hindsight, more than a little. The Doctors seem to be finishing each other's thoughts as much as sentences. My guess it's a way to Houdini oneself out of making any concrete statements.
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Post by chapwithwings on Dec 26, 2016 13:07:32 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Dec 26, 2016 20:52:57 GMT
Perfect Season 19 style with added VNA flavour.
Davison and McCoy play it exactly as I hoped.
Again I can still take or leave the House and Loom Born stuff.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 26, 2016 21:37:10 GMT
FWIW, other then the screaming shower of idioms, "Bruce" really does Sound like a Queenslander, not a Brisbanite though, but certainly someone from west of the Great Dividing Range.
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 27, 2016 9:14:03 GMT
Hurry up & dispatch the CDs Big Finish.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 9:20:16 GMT
FWIW, other then the screaming shower of idioms, "Bruce" really does Sound like a Queenslander, not a Brisbanite though, but certainly someone from west of the Great Dividing Range. Definitely a country town accent. I fell off my chair when Tegan said -- "Like hell he is!"
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 27, 2016 9:22:45 GMT
I understand why it was changed, but I do sort of miss the "yes, I've seen Blake's 7" reply from Tegan while the Doctor was explaining a teleport. You could have had a cheeky couple of notes from the B7 theme just as she said it.
I mean, after all Benny confirms that both the TV series and the terrorist group exist (she knew someone who claims to have dated someone in Blake's 7, the terrorist group)
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 27, 2016 9:23:33 GMT
FWIW, other then the screaming shower of idioms, "Bruce" really does Sound like a Queenslander, not a Brisbanite though, but certainly someone from west of the Great Dividing Range. Definitely a country town accent. I fell off my chair when Tegan said -- "Like hell he is!" A former Barcaldine barkeeper of my passing acquaintance for example.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 9:27:45 GMT
Definitely a country town accent. I fell off my chair when Tegan said -- "Like hell he is!" A former Barcaldine barkeeper of my passing acquaintance for example. My nanny hasn't managed to shake it from her childhood days. Contrast that with the latest Thunderbirds Are Go episodes where the thick, affected Steve Irwin accent just grates against your eardrums.
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