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Post by Zagreus on Jul 3, 2016 17:55:00 GMT
So, I noticed a posting for Heiress of Collinwood up for pre-order on Amazon, and figured it might be a good time to dip into this novel range. I've listened to BF's take on Angelique's Descent, but haven't read (or even really read up on) Dreams of the Dark, The Salem Branch, or Wolf Moon Rising. Anyone able to give me a rundown on these? Recommendations? Critiques? General discussion? In particular, when do these take place, and do they mesh well with the Big Finish stuff? And most importantly, who will be reading the audiobook of Heiress? This is important!
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
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Post by bobod on Jul 3, 2016 19:15:27 GMT
So, I noticed a posting for Heiress of Collinwood up for pre-order on Amazon, and figured it might be a good time to dip into this novel range. I've listened to BF's take on Angelique's Descent, but haven't read (or even really read up on) Dreams of the Dark, The Salem Branch, or Wolf Moon Rising. Anyone able to give me a rundown on these? Recommendations? Critiques? General discussion? In particular, when do these take place, and do they mesh well with the Big Finish stuff? And most importantly, who will be reading the audiobook of Heiress? This is important! Lara read all the previous ones, so I can't imagine she'd not do this one. I've got all three of her books so far, but I need to find a cheap enough Dreams of the Dark (which she didn't write)
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 3, 2016 19:34:05 GMT
Lara read all the previous ones, so I can't imagine she'd not do this one. I've got all three of her books so far, but I need to find a cheap enough Dreams of the Dark (which she didn't write) I think I've got a couple Audible credits, so I might check those out. I gather from reviews online that Dreams takes place sometime prior to Angelique showing up as "Cassandra" in the show, and that Salem and Wolf take place not long after the original television run. Is that accurate? Assuming so, would these work well in the gap between the 1973 audios and the 1980s stuff? I've seen some sites that place Night Whispers in the 70s, as a prefigure to the 1980s stuff, rather than in the 90s, as has been stated elsewhere. In that, Barnabas has been turned back human and is in the process of settling down with Julia. That seems to be the general situation things are in in the beginning of Salem Branch, as far as I can tell. Heiress' blurb states that Victoria's come back, but Collinwood's empty. I wonder if it will dovetail nicely with the house being vacated in the wake of Strix's machinations prior to House of Despair.
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Post by Trace on Jul 3, 2016 21:55:14 GMT
For me, personally, Lara's books create their own distinct parallel timeline. All three (and I suspect The Heiress too) follow on well from the endpoint of the tv series, but they take very sharp detours from the BF timeline. Also, Lara's trips back to the past don't fit all that well with either the tv series OR the BF audios. However, many readers feel the need to make them all fit, and I have read very long, detailed suppositions about how a reader/listener can make them all gel. I prefer to enjoy them separately and distinctly from BF. Certainly, Lara has decided to NOT include the BF stories in her books, and likewise, BF has not followed any of Lara's storylines (with the exception of the abridged version of AD). That abridgment, read by Lara FOR BF, is considered BF canon. The rest of the book, not.
Lara's unabridged readings (all done by her) are not BF, and I'm sure she will do the same thing for The Heiress.
As for Dreams of the Dark, (and Mark Rainey's unpublished sequel Labyrinth of Souls), I've always heard that they were written as a follow up to the 1991 series, so they are more properly fitted to that continuity.
And Hawkes Harbor, while not an official DS book, clearly WAS written as a DS book and turned down by the publisher, so SEHinton changed all the names and released it anyway. It's a Willie/Jason origin story but you will recognize many characters from the series. So, it's really another early 60's to late 60's parallel time story.
I like to read them all in release order: AD DotD LoS HH tSB WMR tHoC (not released yet)
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 3, 2016 22:30:51 GMT
Interesting stuff! Hadn't heard about Labyrinth or Hawkes Harbor. I'll have to go look those up.
Would you be willing to give a brief summary of what the inconsistencies are with the parts of the books that take place in the past?
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Post by Trace on Jul 4, 2016 2:47:22 GMT
Labyrinth of Souls was never published, but Mark Rainey made it available in pdf format on his website for a time, and it's still there because I checked. It's a great story with Carolyn and Quentin at the center. Because it never got published, some of the DS diehards don't consider it official and some even consider it to be "fan fiction", although because Mark Rainey was originally to be one of the authors for Harper Collins continuation novels, I think it's got a bit more credibility than fan fiction. Mark has stated, though, that because it's in first draft (and only draft) format, it has to be considered no more than fan fiction, and thus he's able to offer it on his site for free e-book download. Here's a link to the download: Dark Shadows: Labyrinth of Soulsand to Mark's statement about it: What Mark Rainey has to say about Labyrinth of Souls
Hawkes Harbor was written by S.E. Hinton--the author of the young adult classic, The Outsiders, Tex, and Rumble Fish. She was commissioned by Harper Collins to write the next Dark Shadows novel, and apparently they felt that it was too much of a departure for the series. It's got adult themes and takes characters in very different directions. So, it was rejected for Dark Shadows, but accepted as long as all character names, and references to DS were changed. Interesting enough, the editors missed one change--apparently the "Find and Replace" function wasn't working up to snuff that day, because the name "Roger" still appears in the book once, for a character that was called a different name everywhere else! For DS fans, that's fun trivia....but you can imagine the confusion for non-DS fans of S.E. Hinton. Not only had their beloved classic young-adult author written a story that veered into the supernatural (when she had no prior history for that type of fiction), but it suddenly named a character "Roger" in only one spot! Needless to say, it was too much of a departure for S. E. Hinton fans, and too much of a departure for DS fans too! I happen to love it, for it's unique place in DS' world. Here's a link to Hawkes Harbor on Amazon: Hawkes Harbor on Amazon.comHere are some of the inconsistencies with BF and/or with the original series in Lara's books. {SPOILERS for the DS Novels} These details are sketchy to me because it's been some time since I read them all....so perhaps if I get a detail wrong, someone will correct it here.
The Old House burns down at the end of Dreams of the Dark, and Lara follows that up with an Angelique dead ringer, named Antoinette moving in to the rebuilt Old House (perfectly restored, every inch) with her teenage daughter Jacqueline. (Not Jackie Tate from BF) It seems that Jacqueline is actually the reincarnation of Miranda duVal (Antoinette, who actually looks just like Angelique is not.) David falls in love with Jackie. We are transported back to the days of Puritans and witch trials, and get the back story of Miranda and Judah Zachary.
Julia Hoffman becomes a vampire.
We go back to the 1920's and Liz Stoddard who is a flapper and in love with her great-uncle Quentin. Liz actually learns his secret. The dates are all a bit off and don't jive with the original series or BF. I think Liz was born in 1915 on the TV series, if I recall. If that's the case, she would only be approximately between the ages of 10-15 when Wolf Moon Rising takes place in the 1920's. Too young for Quentin.
Liz goes to Hollywood and becomes an actress of the silver screen (based on Joan Bennett) after the affair with Quentin and before she retires early and returns to Maine.
Jackie goes to Windcliff (I don't think Maggie is mentioned at all...or maybe just in passing.)
There are probably others....and I'll post them later if they come to me...or perhaps someone else will follow up. I would recommend though, that anyone use the "SPOILER" tag as it's not fair to ruin these fabulous novels for someone who wants to get them. They are imaginative and extremely well written!
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 4, 2016 3:15:17 GMT
Labyrinth of Souls was never published, but Mark Rainey made it available in pdf format on his website for a time, and it's still there because I checked. It's a great story with Carolyn and Quentin at the center. Because it never got published, some of the DS diehards don't consider it official and some even consider it to be "fan fiction", although because Mark Rainey was originally to be one of the authors for Harper Collins continuation novels, I think it's got a bit more credibility than fan fiction. Mark has stated, though, that because it's in first draft (and only draft) format, it has to be considered no more than fan fiction, and thus he's able to offer it on his site for free e-book download. Here's a link to the download: Dark Shadows: Labyrinth of Soulsand to Mark's statement about it: What Mark Rainey has to say about Labyrinth of Souls
Hawkes Harbor was written by S.E. Hinton--the author of the young adult classic, The Outsiders, Tex, and Rumble Fish. She was commissioned by Harper Collins to write the next Dark Shadows novel, and apparently they felt that it was too much of a departure for the series. It's got adult themes and takes characters in very different directions. So, it was rejected for Dark Shadows, but accepted as long as all character names, and references to DS were changed. Interesting enough, the editors missed one change--apparently the "Find and Replace" function wasn't working up to snuff that day, because the name "Roger" still appears in the book once, for a character that was called a different name everywhere else! For DS fans, that's fun trivia....but you can imagine the confusion for non-DS fans of S.E. Hinton. Not only had their beloved classic young-adult author written a story that veered into the supernatural (when she had no prior history for that type of fiction), but it suddenly named a character "Roger" in only one spot! Needless to say, it was too much of a departure for S. E. Hinton fans, and too much of a departure for DS fans too! I happen to love it, for it's unique place in DS' world. Here's a link to Hawkes Harbor on Amazon: Hawkes Harbor on Amazon.comGood stuff! I've downloaded the pdf of Labyrinth and added Hawkes Harbor to the Amazon cart. As I'm still winding my way through the original series, is there a handy reference guide to who is actually what character in the novel? Here are some of the inconsistencies with BF and/or with the original series in Lara's books. {Spoiler} {SPOILERS for the DS Novels}These details are sketchy to me because it's been some time since I read them all....so perhaps if I get a detail wrong, someone will correct it here.
The Old House burns down at the end of Dreams of the Dark, and Lara follows that up with an Angelique dead ringer, named Antoinette moving in to the rebuilt Old House (perfectly restored, every inch) with her teenage daughter Jacqueline. (Not Jackie Tate from BF) It seems that Jacqueline is actually the reincarnation of Miranda duVal (Antoinette, who actually looks just like Angelique is not.) David falls in love with Jackie. We are transported back to the days of Puritans and witch trials, and get the back story of Miranda and Judah Zachary.
Julia Hoffman becomes a vampire.
We go back to the 1920's and Liz Stoddard who is a flapper and in love with her great-uncle Quentin. Liz actually learns his secret. The dates are all a bit off and don't jive with the original series or BF. I think Liz was born in 1915 on the TV series, if I recall. If that's the case, she would only be approximately between the ages of 10-15 when Wolf Moon Rising takes place in the 1920's. Too young for Quentin.
Liz goes to Hollywood and becomes an actress of the silver screen (based on Joan Bennett) after the affair with Quentin and before she retires early and returns to Maine.
Jackie goes to Windcliff (I don't think Maggie is mentioned at all...or maybe just in passing.)
There are probably others....and I'll post them later if they come to me...or perhaps someone else will follow up. I would recommend though, that anyone use the "SPOILER" tag as it's not fair to ruin these fabulous novels for someone who wants to get them. They are imaginative and extremely well written! Interesting... Even more intrigued to see how Heiress turns out now :3
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Post by omega on Jul 4, 2016 5:15:21 GMT
As for Dreams of the Dark, (and Mark Rainey's unpublished sequel Labyrinth of Souls), I've always heard that they were written as a follow up to the 1991 series, so they are more properly fitted to that continuity. Dreams of the Dark takes place shortly after the 1795 storyline, a period Big Finish hasn't done much with. By the end of the story things are pretty much where they were at the start (something necessary with a new story set between previously established ones). It still works with the TV and Big Finish continuities. The only audio I can think of that'd be in any way relevant to that period is Echoes of Insanity, which takes place during the Cure storyline (shortly before the Cassandra storyline in terms of the timeline, with Willie being treated by Julia Hoffman at Windcliff after he was shot outside Maggie's cottage).
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Post by Trace on Jul 4, 2016 5:51:56 GMT
As for Dreams of the Dark, (and Mark Rainey's unpublished sequel Labyrinth of Souls), I've always heard that they were written as a follow up to the 1991 series, so they are more properly fitted to that continuity. Dreams of the Dark takes place shortly after the 1795 storyline, a period Big Finish hasn't done much with. By the end of the story things are pretty much where they were at the start (something necessary with a new story set between previously established ones). It still works with the TV and Big Finish continuities. The only audio I can think of that'd be in any way relevant to that period is Echoes of Insanity, which takes place during the Cure storyline (shortly before the Cassandra storyline in terms of the timeline, with Willie being treated by Julia Hoffman at Windcliff after he was shot outside Maggie's cottage). True, but since it deals with Victoria Winters {Spoiler} meeting and falling in love with a new character that never appeared on the series, I don't see how it can fit. I feel like the novel takes a different path, and goes with the assumption that Vicki continues at Collinwood after going to 1795 and the story ignores Burke Devlin and Jeff Clark. Not only that, but remember that Barnabas (I think) puts a torch to the Old House at the end. Can't happen because the original Old House still exists in the BF audios.
And did you ever hear as I did, that DotD was written as if it picks up where the 1991 series ended, and continues THAT storyline, but simply adjusts the dates so that it's now 1967-1970. If that's the case then I think it seems to fit better because we never got the continuing story of Vicki when that series ended after 13 episodes.
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Post by Trace on Jul 4, 2016 5:53:46 GMT
I'll be anticipating reading your thoughts as you finish each book, Srandom.
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Post by omega on Jul 4, 2016 6:14:44 GMT
Dreams of the Dark takes place shortly after the 1795 storyline, a period Big Finish hasn't done much with. By the end of the story things are pretty much where they were at the start (something necessary with a new story set between previously established ones). It still works with the TV and Big Finish continuities. The only audio I can think of that'd be in any way relevant to that period is Echoes of Insanity, which takes place during the Cure storyline (shortly before the Cassandra storyline in terms of the timeline, with Willie being treated by Julia Hoffman at Windcliff after he was shot outside Maggie's cottage). True, but since it deals with Victoria Winters {Spoiler} meeting and falling in love with a new character that never appeared on the series, I don't see how it can fit. I feel like the novel takes a different path, and goes with the assumption that Vicki continues at Collinwood after going to 1795 and the story ignores Burke Devlin and Jeff Clark. Not only that, but remember that Barnabas (I think) puts a torch to the Old House at the end. Can't happen because the original Old House still exists in the BF audios.
And did you ever hear as I did, that DotD was written as if it picks up where the 1991 series ended, and continues THAT storyline, but simply adjusts the dates so that it's now 1967-1970. If that's the case then I think it seems to fit better because we never got the continuing story of Vicki when that series ended after 13 episodes. {Spoiler} Vicki forgets about Burke Devlin pretty quickly once she gets to 1795 (part of it may have been that Angelique was proving popular with viewers so got the limelight and Anthony George wanting to leave the show cutting Jeremiah's time short). There some minor continuity quirks (Carolyn working at the antique store, the presence of Chris Jennings), but those could be chalked up to the writers not quite getting their dates lined up correctly. Like I said, it's a necessity for books like these to have no impact on the continuity it's based on. The Doctor Who Missing and Past Doctor Adventures don't have any impact on the TV stories they take place between (they may explain some things, but not add anything). The Interference novels are different, but the change made is ultimately reset in The Ancestor Cell. The range of books that was meant to have come from this is based on the original series.
It's also the Jonathan Frid Barnabas on the cover BTW, not Ben Cross. Maggie isn't a fortune teller, although I will admit that David's behaviour is more in line with the JGL David than the DH David. The DH David had grown out of those tendencies by the post-1795 storyline.
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 4, 2016 16:45:20 GMT
When do Labyrinth and Hawke's Harbor take place in relation to the Original Series?
And would Dreams go between Clothes of Sand and Echoes of Insanity in a timeline? or thereabouts?
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 4, 2016 17:35:01 GMT
So I just skimmed through this: www.collinsport.sarawebsite.com/misc/hawkesharbor.htmlAnd it sounds like Echoes of Insanity covers much of the same material... only not in the form of dime-store smut. Still, I'll give it a read, for the sake of historical curiosity. Was also interesting reading on another site that Big Finish briefly considered giving Labyrinth of Souls the same treatment as Angelique's Descent, before moving on with other plans. As the author has since written some Dark Shadows releases for Big Finish, I wonder if any of the stuff from the book has made it into BF's stuff along the way... will be interesting to find out
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 4, 2016 22:07:04 GMT
If I might ask, what are the differences between the novel and the Dramatic Reading of Angelique's Descent?
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Post by omega on Jul 5, 2016 6:37:34 GMT
I was developing a pattern of listening to the BF audio every year or so, then was surprised how much I enjoyed the unabridged version when I heard it this past year, having forgotten the modern day story. I like them all. If I were to suggest one, start with the BF audio. It's about 2 hours long. Then perhaps read the book or get the unabridged version. (If you subscribe to Audible, you will likely amass points, so you'll probably end up downloading all of Lara's books as I did. It almost feels like getting the books for free.) Both releases that make up the story are each two discs, so it's four hours in total. They're actually closer to two and a half hours each, so five hours total.
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Post by omega on Jul 5, 2016 6:52:59 GMT
Angelique's Descent initially being framed as Angelique's diary actually makes a lot of sense with the Big Finish audio reading. When it reaches the 1795 storyline it's pretty much all about Angelique's love for Barnabas and the lengths she goes to in pursuit of that love. There's not mention of Vicki the time travelling governess or Abigail and Trask's accusations of witchcraft, which were the B-plot until Angelique first shuffled off this mortal coil.
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Post by omega on Jul 5, 2016 6:55:38 GMT
>As the author has since written some Dark Shadows releases for Big Finish, I wonder if any of the stuff from the book has made it into BF's stuff along the way... will be interesting to find out The author is prolific and I didn't notice anything verbatim or even very similar. I did notice, however, that he has a good grasp of writing Carolyn Stoddard in both the Labyrinth novel and at least one of the BF audios (I think Curse of the Pharaoh). Also I forgot to mention that in his novel Dreams of the Dark he had a firm visualization of the Collinwood estate which helped him write it vividly (and even included a map inside the book). If I recall correctly, it was reminiscent of the Lyndhurst estate where the MGM movies were filmed. The Angelique character was more of a spirit, as in MGM's Night of Dark Shadows (1971), which Lara Parker said she didn't care for in this novel. There was one little bit somewhere that may have seemed a little rough to me. But on the whole this was a very professional, well-written novel. It also included a new vampire character that was very well done, as well as a starring role for Victoria Winters. I love Curse of the Pharaoh, even if some of the emotional backdrop relied on a storyline I had yet to see. Was the map included as an insert? I can't find it in my copy of the book.
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 5, 2016 22:12:27 GMT
Have started reading Labyrinth of Souls while I wait for other physical books to arrive. Presently a couple chapters in. So far nothing egregious that wouldn't work with BF continuity. Assuming we use a date of mid to early 1970 for Quentin's sudden disappearance (ala The Original Series), this takes place Christmas time, 1972, which would put it between The Ghost Watcher and Curse of the Pharaoh on my lists (I know Trace's are a little different as far as specific years go).
At present time, I would use David Selby and Nancy Barrett for a hypothetical Dramatic Reading adaption of the novel, as was apparently the plan at one point.
Am enjoying it thus far. The writing's decent, and I can hear in my head the actors reading their lines. We'll see how things go as I get further into it.
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Post by Trace on Jul 5, 2016 23:22:13 GMT
I don't recall the map at all! I only have the paperback edition. Come to think of it, that may be the only edition....
I wish I could get at it readily so I could look for the map, but alas, it's part of my life that remains in storage!
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Post by Zagreus on Jul 6, 2016 0:55:43 GMT
And Angelique's Descent has arrived in the mail! Bigger than I expected it to be. I think the plan, going forward, will be: - Finish up my Return to Collinwood writeup for the chronological listen-through thread.
- Listen to the audio of Angelique's Descent.
- Read the novel of Angelique's Descent (and I happen to have gotten the newer edition, with the extra chapter)
- Read Dreams of the Dark.
- Re-start & finish The Labyrinth of Souls
- Read Hawkes Harbor, possibly throwing it in the bin part-way through
- Read The Salem Branch
- Read Wolf Moon Rising
- Complain loudly that I have to wait for Heiress of Collinwood to be released
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