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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 24, 2015 14:17:35 GMT
Title says it all
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Post by feefyefoefum on Sept 24, 2015 14:49:55 GMT
The influence of the flat earth society
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Post by kimalysong on Sept 24, 2015 15:15:01 GMT
Well they pretty much said it was creating to much extra work moderating it for them and I guess they didn't have staff and resources.
I do wish they hadn't just closed it without any notice. I don't think that was the best way to go about it. But I imagine they didn't want us to argue with them about it (which I admit I am sure we would do). Still I think there was a better way to announce it then to just suddenly see it closed.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 24, 2015 16:20:37 GMT
The influence of the flat earth society Damn them all!
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Post by kfbate on Sept 24, 2015 19:50:35 GMT
Ironically a US OP posted and created a rather, conversational post literally the day before it shut. It basically portrayed Who has not being ethnically in-correct, or politically negative, against todays society, next thing, I login and it shut down. I do however think that if you read through some of the posts on there, there was a lot of general negativity, and some pretty nasty sledging. Coupled with this the constant attacks then I suppose if it's extra work for a small team then it probably isn't worth the effort. However the flip side of this is I think personally it has lost them a great deal of credence, for all the bad things, it offered a good solid reliable arena to gain useful knowledge and also others thoughts on Who and all the other sort of BF output, sometimes other scifi fantasy drama from others. Real shame so more power to the people here....
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Post by jasonward on Sept 24, 2015 19:57:57 GMT
I messaged BF and was told: Bottom line, however, the moderation of the forums - both in combating the ever-increasing spam attacks, and having to deal with the considerable complaints and battles between members (most of which has gone on behind the scenes of the every day postings) - has got to a position where it is a full time job for someone, when both Joe and I have full time jobs already as production assistants. It's made for long days and weekends for us both - with the latter being days we don't get paid for. While I know many of the members are decent, kind people, there's an increasingly number with axes to grind - either at Big Finish, or at each other, or at the new series, or combinations of all three. If we clamp down heavily on this, we still destroy the community spirit, but again end up coming across as authoritarian or uncaring. With the advent of the new series coming up, we decided enough was enough, rather than 13 weeks of why Missy is a mistake, or Moffat must go, or why Big Finish shouldn't be doing New Series. It's been an issue for most of this year. And while people subsequently have offered to moderate, they'll be representing Big Finish officially and we in turn would have to moderate the moderators so it's no real help however well intentioned. The timing was rather forced on us by the combination of the return of the New Series, and Big Finish Day 7 (which was booked almost a year ago without awareness of when the show was returning), and us not wanting a day packed with stars and creatives dominated by questions about a forum being closed. Once it was closed at the weekend we worked to return it read-only this morning so that people could message each other to keep in touch, and to preserve what in places is an impressive information resource.
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Post by Timelord007 on Sept 25, 2015 8:04:44 GMT
My opinion is it's like we have all been punished because of a few posters inappropriate comments & spam posts which has nothing to do with us, I've lost respect for team Big Finish & there treatment to the loyal fans & customers has a get stuffed attitude, simply apply more spam filters & hire a moderator like Doctor Who Online does.
Amazing how there was never a issue when the late great Paul Spragg was in charge, he ran everything like clockwork.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Sept 25, 2015 10:02:59 GMT
I kind of get what Ian@bigfinish is saying: something like a forum, which has no measurable benefits for the site or the business, can be a chore, especially if there are some people who do nothing but whinge about creative choices made by people closer to the chalkface than themselves. I also get how it can be a thankless task to moderate a place frequented by people who see themselves as being blameless but do, in fact, cause problems simply by expressing emotions for something they love which contradicts the emotions of other people who are equally blameless. Being caught in the middle can be time-consuming and exhausting.
Please believe me when I say this that I mean no offence to anyone... but some of the disputes and issues that I saw raised on the forums were pretty bloody petty. They meant a lot to the people concerned, and were important in the context of shows that that we all love and have fairly strong opinions about, but in the grand scheme of things, they were pretty minor. Especially in the sense that BF can't influence the parent companies concerned and may have felt that the angst and energy devoted to keeping it under control was equivalent to controlling debate over how many angels dance on the head of a pin.
I'm not saying they were right or that I agree with them, but I can see where they are coming from.
Cheers
Ian
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Post by lidar on Sept 25, 2015 10:23:06 GMT
I can see their point about moderation becoming a full-time job and not having any choice but to draw a liine under the whole thing.
I guess there must be some technical solution to the problem of the spambots but maybe BF didn't want to spend the money. As for the problem of the arguments etc I suppose the alternate solution was to ban the offenders, but as these are potential BF customers I guess they were reluctant to risk alienating them and to risk the negative publicity of being seen as anti-free speech etc.
So I kind of understand why they did it. Doesn't mean I 'm not saddened
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Post by kimalysong on Sept 25, 2015 10:31:31 GMT
I sympathize with it becoming a full time job and people having to work late or on the weekends (because who wants to do that) but I don't recall that many bad arguments. I've been on a lot of forums and the Big Finish one was one of the most pleasant I've ever been on. So I find it ironic that it closed for something like that.
That not to say people didn't disagree but disagreement is just a part of discussion. It's not a crises and I don't necessarily think disagreements need moderation if people aren't outright insulting each other.
The other thing is I don't understand what is so wrong about "negative opinions". If people don't like the new series (which I do) I think they have the right to say so. Again opinions whether positive or negative are just part of discussion. I certainly think people can take their negativity too far but again compared to other Doctor Who boards were people really that negative? I didn't see it!
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Post by mrfuggleboppins on Sept 25, 2015 10:52:51 GMT
I'm blaming Dalekbuster and free passports.
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Post by elkawho on Sept 25, 2015 12:19:34 GMT
I sympathize with it becoming a full time job and people having to work late or on the weekends (because who wants to do that) but I don't recall that many bad arguments. I've been on a lot of forums and the Big Finish one was one of the most pleasant I've ever been on. So I find it ironic that it closed for something like that. That not to say people didn't disagree but disagreement is just a part of discussion. It's not a crises and I don't necessarily think disagreements need moderation if people aren't outright insulting each other. The other thing is I don't understand what is so wrong about "negative opinions". If people don't like the new series (which I do) I think they have the right to say so. Again opinions whether positive or negative are just part of discussion. I certainly think people can take their negativity too far but again compared to other Doctor Who boards were people really that negative? I didn't see it! I completely agree. I don't mean to offend, but can the idea that "we don't want to hear negative opinions" be a cultural thing? Here in the US we are used to being bombarded with all kinds of opinions. I never thought anything that was said was over the top.(Except for the one or two exceptions like Dalekbuster or paulmorris777) The idea of a forum is for discussion, and boy would they be boring if everyone liked the same things. I don't have a problem with people not liking what I like, unless they get insulting. If the folks at BF can't handle some friendly, heated disagreement, then maybe they did the right thing and shouldn't be hosting a forum. But it also causes me to lose some respect for those folks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2015 20:21:48 GMT
I agree, I have lost a lot of respect for Big Finish, mainly because of the way they done things last weekend. But also not wanting negative opinions kind of defeats the purpose of a forum. A forum is for discussions and on the whole I thought the Big Finish forums were very civilised compared to other online Doctor Who sites.
They could have appointed moderators from within the community, it's done on a lot of other sites and works ok. Sure, some supervision initially might have been required, but it could have been done if they wanted to. So it shows what they really thought of us I suppose.
As I won't be on the site reading the forums daily I can see myself buying less from Big Finish over time.
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Post by kfbate on Sept 25, 2015 21:08:20 GMT
My opinion is it's like we have all been punished because of a few posters inappropriate comments & spam posts which has nothing to do with us, I've lost respect for team Big Finish & there treatment to the loyal fans & customers has a get stuffed attitude, simply apply more spam filters & hire a moderator like Doctor Who Online does. Amazing how there was never a issue when the late great Paul Spragg was in charge, he ran everything like clockwork. I totally agree, I read this and wandered off onto another part of the forum. I kept thinking about this, and I know at some point we have to stop talking about why it shut and just get on with it. However, Timelord007 as struck a chord with me. The fact that BF have shut the Forum, does make me view their web page less, and I find myself relying on other sites and I only really check when I hear or read of a release that I have subscribed to. So if BF wanted to stop "keyfall" shoppers who read something on the forum leading them to perhaps then making a purchase they have certainly lost my business in that respect. In fact at this moment in time although I will continue to purchase BF stuff as I really enjoy it, their site now is going to act more like Amazon for me, where I go there when I need too. What a shame.
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Post by elkawho on Sept 26, 2015 12:24:57 GMT
Hmm, with the announcement of the postponements of Gallifrey and Charley, I get the feeling like they have taken on a bit more than they can chew with all of the new releases coming. I think they are completely overwhelmed. It seems like the forum and these releases have all been victims of a business with some major growing pains.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Sept 26, 2015 13:56:27 GMT
Hmm, with the announcement of the postponements of Gallifrey and Charley, I get the feeling like they have taken on a bit more than they can chew with all of the new releases coming. I think they are completely overwhelmed. It seems like the forum and these releases have all been victims of a business with some major growing pains. I think you are probably right. In a way I guess we should be pleased that they are so busy creating new audio dramas. The loss of the forum and the delay to some of their existing ranges is annoying, but it is not as if there is nothing being released to fill the void.
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Post by jasonward on Sept 26, 2015 15:27:21 GMT
My biggest issue with the forum closing, is not actually the closing of it, but the way BF handled it.
There was a vibrant community, and clearly one that loved BF and what they do. But BF doesn't in any sense "owe" that community a forum, and if BF needed to stop running the forum for their own reasons then so be it. But what BF did owe, still owes in my view is some respect, respect for the love and support and commitment that community has for BF and respect for just the fact that a community existed, it is in my view inherent on anyone and any organisation to consider carefully before destroying or dismantling a community, and at the very least the community should be given warning of what is to come.
BF did none of those things, they just and up closed the community, no warning, no consultation and giving the community no opportunity to mitigate the impact on itself (the community).
I also find the timing cynical, BF, by their own admission I feel from Ian's message to me, that they closed the forum when they did because they knew the community would be excited by both the BF day and new TV episode, but both of these events were entire predictable, known about at least weeks, perhaps even months ahead of time, that the community would be excited by these events was also entirely predictable, BF wasn't caught out by surprise, they just ran the community right up to the moment of excitement and then took an axe to the community. As far as I'm concerned that a cynical move by an organisation that has lost touch with that what being a fan means and which increasingly doesn't care.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Sept 26, 2015 15:51:59 GMT
Yes it is just like how they handled the loss of the Subscriber special release and the reduction of the booklets into advertising leaflets.
I note that those online Writers Notes are a bit behind on the monthly range and never did appear on the Fourth Doctor Adventures.
In the end of the day they are a business and they have to make tough decisions. Also like so many other businesses they are more concerned with attracting new customers than keeping their existing ones. But that is just the way of the commercial world.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 16:22:25 GMT
My biggest issue with the forum closing, is not actually the closing of it, but the way BF handled it. [...] As far as I'm concerned that a cynical move by an organisation that has lost touch with that what being a fan means and which increasingly doesn't care. I agree with you 100% Jason. Big Finish seems to be run by marketing people these days and the community that has supported them over their years of growth are now irrelevant. Sure with the new series licence aren't new fans going to be flocking in, who needs these moaning ninny's around the place?! ... ££$$€€ ... Big Finish don't owe us a forum obviously, but they did have a great community of fans of their products under the one roof supporting them through thick and thin. You'd think they'd be happy to have fans around who are passionate about the stuff they produce?! I hope the attracting new customers and neglecting the old ones policy works for them in the long run...
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Post by elkawho on Sept 26, 2015 18:15:36 GMT
My biggest issue with the forum closing, is not actually the closing of it, but the way BF handled it. There was a vibrant community, and clearly one that loved BF and what they do. But BF doesn't in any sense "owe" that community a forum, and if BF needed to stop running the forum for their own reasons then so be it. But what BF did owe, still owes in my view is some respect, respect for the love and support and commitment that community has for BF and respect for just the fact that a community existed, it is in my view inherent on anyone and any organisation to consider carefully before destroying or dismantling a community, and at the very least the community should be given warning of what is to come. BF did none of those things, they just and up closed the community, no warning, no consultation and giving the community no opportunity to mitigate the impact on itself (the community). I also find the timing cynical, BF, by their own admission I feel from Ian's message to me, that they closed the forum when they did because they knew the community would be excited by both the BF day and new TV episode, but both of these events were entire predictable, known about at least weeks, perhaps even months ahead of time, that the community would be excited by these events was also entirely predictable, BF wasn't caught out by surprise, they just ran the community right up to the moment of excitement and then took an axe to the community. As far as I'm concerned that a cynical move by an organisation that has lost touch with that what being a fan means and which increasingly doesn't care. Very well said, Jason. I think we all feel the way you do.
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