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Post by Ela on Jan 22, 2017 7:12:27 GMT
A tension fuelled emotional rollercoaster & it did feel like closure to the series. I found the solution that giving Eurus a hug was a very anticlimactic solution that jarred a otherwise amazingly tense episode, Eurus murdered & manipulated people for her own personal gains to try undo that & humanize her fell flat to me. No doubt I'm missing the point somewhere but that's my summary I'm with you, Timelord007. So much about the episode was just so disturbing, and a bit contrived, I felt. And the ending with Eurus just fell flat. It would be a shame if that's the way the series end, but it did sound like an ending.
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Post by Ela on Jan 22, 2017 7:14:13 GMT
Of course there's a thread hanging What on earth did they say to "Red Beards" parents? Regards mark687 That was the most disturbing (and horrifying) part of all.
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Post by Ela on Jan 22, 2017 17:47:12 GMT
So I'm gathering from comments on the previous page that people liked the season finale? Because I thought it was appalling and disappointing on so many levels: The revelation that Redbeard was a murdered childhood friend of Sherlock's and the Mycroft apparently knew all along is deeply disturbing. The treatment of Molly Hooper in this episode was appalling. The deaths and how they happened. The whole episode left a bad taste in my mouth.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jan 22, 2017 19:50:29 GMT
So I'm gathering from comments on the previous page that people liked the season finale? Because I thought it was appalling and disappointing on so many levels: The revelation that Redbeard was a murdered childhood friend of Sherlock's and the Mycroft apparently knew all along is deeply disturbing. The treatment of Molly Hooper in this episode was appalling. The deaths and how they happened. The whole episode left a bad taste in my mouth. Looking back over some of the earlier episodes, his treatment of Molly was no different - in fact at least he acknowledged he didn't want to do it. By comparison look at his treatment of her at Christmas (the Belgravia episode). Absolutely shocking! The deaths were graphic and uncalled for but I can understand why they were done by a Psychopath. They just didn't fit with her at the end (little girl lost who just wanted a friend to play with). Redbeard is an odd one. Surely Mycroft kept the secret as much for his parents as Sherlock. They either didn't know what happened and he just disappeared or were the ones who covered up the crime - Mycroft wouldn't have been old enough to do it but it wasn't really explained. A similar child/dog scene happened in Survivors with the shocking reveal at the end. I enjoyed the finale, and can see how they ended up there (after rewatching the earlier ones). I didn't like the Fantasy aspect (the plane, the gravestones, the house-set and her mind-controlling skills). And what was the Moriarty thing about. 5 minutes and he did all that? Was he the pawn or her accomplice? Too many threads and not enough explanation. They made it too complex. Take out all that "bobbins" and it would have been fantastic (psychopathic sister, locked away, escapes to psychologically play with Sherlock and Mycroft, fails and is caught or killed, everyone goes back to normal, the end). Cheers Tony
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Post by Ela on Jan 22, 2017 20:03:21 GMT
So I'm gathering from comments on the previous page that people liked the season finale? Because I thought it was appalling and disappointing on so many levels: The revelation that Redbeard was a murdered childhood friend of Sherlock's and the Mycroft apparently knew all along is deeply disturbing. The treatment of Molly Hooper in this episode was appalling. The deaths and how they happened. The whole episode left a bad taste in my mouth. Looking back over some of the earlier episodes, his treatment of Molly was no different - in fact at least he acknowledged he didn't want to do it. By comparison look at his treatment of her at Christmas (the Belgravia episode). Absolutely shocking! The deaths were graphic and uncalled for but I can understand why they were done by a Psychopath. They just didn't fit with her at the end (little girl lost who just wanted a friend to play with). Redbeard is an odd one. Surely Mycroft kept the secret as much for his parents as Sherlock. They either didn't know what happened and he just disappeared or were the ones who covered up the crime - Mycroft wouldn't have been old enough to do it but it wasn't really explained. A similar child/dog scene happened in Survivors with the shocking reveal at the end. I enjoyed the finale, and can see how they ended up there (after rewatching the earlier ones). I didn't like the Fantasy aspect (the plane, the gravestones, the house-set and her mind-controlling skills). And what was the Moriarty thing about. 5 minutes and he did all that? Was he the pawn or her accomplice? Too many threads and not enough explanation. They made it too complex. Take out all that "bobbins" and it would have been fantastic (psychopathic sister, locked away, escapes to psychologically play with Sherlock and Mycroft, fails and is caught or killed, everyone goes back to normal, the end). Cheers Tony Thanks for summing up your thoughts about it. I agree with some of what you said. I just found myself being more and more horrified as the episode went on, and the most horrific was the realization that Redbeard was a child, not a dog. (Not that it would be great if it was a dog, but I think you can get what I mean). True that he never treated Molly Hooper well, but this was just the final straw, for me.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 22, 2017 22:37:53 GMT
I assume that Redbeard's parents knew that Euras killed him. That is probably a bigger factor in her incarceration than burning their house down was. I thought the solution to the problem was pretty good. Throughout the story, Euras was trying to understand humanity. A part of her was always the scared little girl on the plane who just didn't want to be alone. Sherlock helped her to understand forgiveness and love, two of the most important parts of being human. Of course, that doesn't undo any of the terrible things she did, which is why she is still locked up in the end. This time though, she is treated as a human instead of as a monster.
I'm not sure how Sherlock could have treated Molly any differently. Making her say "I love you" was mean, but at least she's not dead.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 22, 2017 23:04:16 GMT
To me the ending made a bit more sense. The whole story was Euros trying to understand people to connect with them due to her inability to empathise due to her beyond genius intellectual (albeit in a very psycopathic way). The plane is designed as a puzzle which if they solve she is not alone in her intelligence-thus making a connection to her.
It's not perfect, but it makes a kind of sense,
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 6:47:08 GMT
So I'm gathering from comments on the previous page that people liked the season finale? Because I thought it was appalling and disappointing on so many levels: The revelation that Redbeard was a murdered childhood friend of Sherlock's and the Mycroft apparently knew all along is deeply disturbing. The treatment of Molly Hooper in this episode was appalling. The deaths and how they happened. The whole episode left a bad taste in my mouth. I enjoyed it because it left a bad taste in my mouth if that makes sense. I agree with the points you mentioned, but they only heightened my enjoyment. I guess normally Sherlock balances between light comedic stuff and darker material and keeps a wider audience happy. This one abandoned attempts to include any lightness and just went for full on dark.
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Post by Ela on Jan 23, 2017 7:30:36 GMT
I guess I can see what you mean, @brians.
It seems to have strayed fairly far from canon in this episode, though. That, together with the violence, was disturbing.
The deductive reasoning that took place while he was solving the puzzles set by Euros was kind of interesting.
And I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't on the edge of my seat the whole time.
The revelation about the child, though, really put me over the edge, so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 11:18:34 GMT
I guess I can see what you mean, @brians. It seems to have strayed fairly far from canon in this episode, though. That, together with the violence, was disturbing. The deductive reasoning that took place while he was solving the puzzles set by Euros was kind of interesting. And I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't on the edge of my seat the whole time. The revelation about the child, though, really put me over the edge, so to speak. First time in years I haven't been able to sleep after watching a TV programme.
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Post by Ela on Jan 23, 2017 16:13:36 GMT
I guess I can see what you mean, @brians. It seems to have strayed fairly far from canon in this episode, though. That, together with the violence, was disturbing. The deductive reasoning that took place while he was solving the puzzles set by Euros was kind of interesting. And I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't on the edge of my seat the whole time. The revelation about the child, though, really put me over the edge, so to speak. First time in years I haven't been able to sleep after watching a TV programme. I hear that. I couldn't stop thinking about it when I went to bed, either, for a while. But I did fall asleep, eventually. And didn't dream about it.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 23, 2017 18:52:31 GMT
I guess I can see what you mean, @brians . It seems to have strayed fairly far from canon in this episode, though. That, together with the violence, was disturbing. The deductive reasoning that took place while he was solving the puzzles set by Euros was kind of interesting. And I'd be lying if I told you I wasn't on the edge of my seat the whole time. The revelation about the child, though, really put me over the edge, so to speak. First time in years I haven't been able to sleep after watching a TV programme. I think the only time that happenned to me was the first time I saw Children of Earth.
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Post by Ela on Jan 23, 2017 20:47:30 GMT
First time in years I haven't been able to sleep after watching a TV programme. I think the only time that happenned to me was the first time I saw Children of Earth. Children of Earth could definitely have that effect. That's one series I have qualms about ever re-watching.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 23, 2017 21:07:17 GMT
I think the only time that happenned to me was the first time I saw Children of Earth. Children of Earth could definitely have that effect. That's one series I have qualms about ever re-watching. I love Children of Earth, and I think that the fact that it had that effect on me is part of the reason why I love it so much.
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Post by Ela on Jan 23, 2017 21:29:27 GMT
It was a good story, to be sure. Just very creepy.
I don't love horror and don't go out of my way to watch it, though there are exceptions.
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Post by aemiliapaula on Jan 24, 2017 0:01:54 GMT
Children of Earth was very well done, and so scary I can't watch it again. {Spoiler} The scene where they are hiding the kids reminded me too much of the lockdown drills we have to do with the students. Sherlock, the first 2-3 seasons I enjoyed because they used the orignal stories and put their own modern twist on them. I didn't like this last set since the mysteries had little to no connection to the original stories.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 24, 2017 2:20:12 GMT
Children of Earth was very well done, and so scary I can't watch it again. {Spoiler} The scene where they are hiding the kids reminded me too much of the lockdown drills we have to do with the students. Sherlock, the first 2-3 seasons I enjoyed because they used the orignal stories and put their own modern twist on them. I didn't like this last set since the mysteries had little to no connection to the original stories. The Six Thatchers was pretty much exactly like the original story, until Sherlock broke the bust open.
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Post by acousticwolf on Jan 24, 2017 8:53:15 GMT
Watched the Reichenbach Fall last night - it's almost as complex as The Final Problem, and similarly weird.
Cheers
Tony
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 24, 2017 20:21:35 GMT
Quick straw poll: at the midpoint twist, how many of you thought, even for a moment, that Moriarty was back?
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Post by mark687 on Jan 24, 2017 20:34:38 GMT
Quick straw poll: at the midpoint twist, how many of you thought, even for a moment, that Moriarty was back? No
To be honest it was the only point in this series I thought was unnecessarily and over indulgent.
Regards
mark687
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