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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 16:15:22 GMT
Not change a lot. It's generally fine. The main problem is the media, to be honest, but everyone knows they're liars by now. I'd also like to take a brief moment to say that people don't really consider the fact that we live in a great society and want to continue moaning about it. If we're honest, most of the political decisions won't effect us. I'd say it is the people's fault, not the government's. And democracy does prevail at the end of the day and people need to remember that. I mean, do we want to live in a world where we aren't allowed a choice? No. We don't. And democracy is here, but people now don't want it. The point about democracy is an important one, but I think at the moment the UK and the US both need to have some proper discussions about what a fair democracy should look like. The problem is, even democracy itself has become a partisan issue - if a system favours a party someone likes, they love that system and if it doesn't they hate it. I think the US system's cr*p, but it favors my party, generally.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 16:16:43 GMT
Not change a lot. It's generally fine. The main problem is the media, to be honest, but everyone knows they're liars by now. I'd also like to take a brief moment to say that people don't really consider the fact that we live in a great society and want to continue moaning about it. If we're honest, most of the political decisions won't effect us. I'd say it is the people's fault, not the government's. And democracy does prevail at the end of the day and people need to remember that. I mean, do we want to live in a world where we aren't allowed a choice? No. We don't. And democracy is here, but people now don't want it. I'm sorry, but I disagree with every single sentence you've written here. You're suggesting that we should be complacent because decisions by a government "won't effect (sic) us." They do. Ask the people of Flint or Standing Rock if they aren't affected by political decisions. Ask the citizens of Syria if they haven't been affected by political decisions. Complacency might make you feel better, but blaming other people for the world's ills while you say "Yeah, it's not too bad but any problems are other people's fault" doesn't help anyone. I did say most. Not all. A lot of them affect us, but very, very scarcely.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 26, 2017 17:00:41 GMT
Sitting back and blaming others isn't going to solve anything. That's what lead to this state of affairs to begin with. Think about it... People don't want democracy, you say. Where are you likely getting this information? If you're getting it from the media, I can see a fundamental paradox in your basic reasoning; i.e. that they are liars, yet the information is accepted anyway. Tbh, though, the US should change their electoral college, because it's rubbish, but nobody wants to. I agree with that, but I think that would involve ammending the constitution. I don't think there is going to be enough support to do that any time soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 17:02:41 GMT
Tbh, though, the US should change their electoral college, because it's rubbish, but nobody wants to. I agree with that, but I think that would involve ammending the constitution. I don't think there is going to be enough support to do that any time soon. I know. It's pretty silly that people stand by the constitution so much.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Jan 26, 2017 17:47:36 GMT
I agree with that, but I think that would involve ammending the constitution. I don't think there is going to be enough support to do that any time soon. I know. It's pretty silly that people stand by the constitution so much. More people, than can be counted, have died defending it, as would I. It's only been amended 27 times, and I support the electoral college. It takes overwhelming support to amend the constitution, about like it takes 75 percent to make the hall of fame in baseball, it's hard to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything, much less everything.
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Post by eldersensorite on Jan 26, 2017 18:50:18 GMT
Tbh, though, the US should change their electoral college, because it's rubbish, but nobody wants to. I agree with that, but I think that would involve ammending the constitution. I don't think there is going to be enough support to do that any time soon. Not necessarily - www.nationalpopularvote.com/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2017 18:57:55 GMT
I know. It's pretty silly that people stand by the constitution so much. More people, than can be counted, have died defending it, as would I. It's only been amended 27 times, and I support the electoral college. It takes overwhelming support to amend the constitution, about like it takes 75 percent to make the hall of fame in baseball, it's hard to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything, much less everything. But why do you defend it so much is my question. Surely there are definite problems with it. I know the Republicans want to keep the constitution as it is, but gun control is a big problem. Now on both sides. Many people have shot police officers and there have been a tons of hateful terror attacks killing many innocents. Also, trying to phrase this as best I can, why do people want to keep the electoral college. I can understand the system we have over in the UK, where we elect local representatives for our area. But in America it's quite severely different.
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Post by jasonward on Jan 26, 2017 19:15:16 GMT
More people, than can be counted, have died defending it, as would I. It's only been amended 27 times, and I support the electoral college. It takes overwhelming support to amend the constitution, about like it takes 75 percent to make the hall of fame in baseball, it's hard to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything, much less everything. But why do you defend it so much is my question. Surely there are definite problems with it. I know the Republicans want to keep the constitution as it is, but gun control is a big problem. Now on both sides. Many people have shot police officers and there have been a tons of hateful terror attacks killing many innocents. Also, trying to phrase this as best I can, why do people want to keep the electoral college. I can understand the system we have over in the UK, where we elect local representatives for our area. But in America it's quite severely different. I have long thought the biggest problem with the US constitution is not the US constitution itself, but that many in the US seems to treat it as if it embodies all that is good and true and correct about the world and anything that challenges it is clear bad, false and incorrect. The US constitution is great, but it needs updating for the modern world, its a working, living document, not tablets of stone handed down by some deity or other. It should be a frame work from which law and governance hang, not a straight jacket.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 26, 2017 19:17:08 GMT
More people, than can be counted, have died defending it, as would I. It's only been amended 27 times, and I support the electoral college. It takes overwhelming support to amend the constitution, about like it takes 75 percent to make the hall of fame in baseball, it's hard to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything, much less everything. But why do you defend it so much is my question. Surely there are definite problems with it. I know the Republicans want to keep the constitution as it is, but gun control is a big problem. Now on both sides. Many people have shot police officers and there have been a tons of hateful terror attacks killing many innocents. Also, trying to phrase this as best I can, why do people want to keep the electoral college. I can understand the system we have over in the UK, where we elect local representatives for our area. But in America it's quite severely different. The constitution isn't perfect, but overall it is a very good document that does an amazing job protecting our rights. Certain people like the electoral college system because it gives power to the parts of the country where nobody lives. People who live in those parts of the country like having that power.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 26, 2017 20:38:38 GMT
As for the UK? Well, the first past the post system needs to go. But AV was deemed too difficult to use by the Tories when the vote on changing to it happened. What baffled me was the likes of UKip coming out against it. If it had happened they would have made huge gains in the last election rather than the single seat they have.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 0:01:14 GMT
Sitting back and blaming others isn't going to solve anything. That's what lead to this state of affairs to begin with. Think about it... People don't want democracy, you say. Where are you likely getting this information? If you're getting it from the media, I can see a fundamental paradox in your basic reasoning; i.e. that they are liars, yet the information is accepted anyway. What I mean is people who want rid of Trump and Brexit, even though they won democratically. Particularly the latter. Tbh, though, the US should change their electoral college, because it's rubbish, but nobody wants to. The fundamental problem there is one with any long-standing democratic system. Tampering is often socially seen as an autocratic process that is intending to do more harm than good, even if the thing being altered doesn't work. If the overhaul becomes more dramatic, the question then becomes what kind of democracy you want to be because there are many. Some have direct democracy, some have representational, some parliamentary and some presidential. The States is a presidential republic, India has a parliamentary republic, Canada and Australia have parliamentary constitutional monarchies under the United Kingdom, etc. That said, both nations are entitled to protest as democracy is a political system which is all about the people being represented by their leaders not the other way around. If people are being told to sit down and shut up even though the people in charge don't represent their interests (in a move which I've seen time and time again done as "Get over it," which wouldn't work on a child whose puppy has just been hit by a car, never mind someone who feels robbed of their democratic right), then there's a fundamental problem here that needs addressing with the people themselves. Because if you don't respect your peers' right to have an opinion other than yours, why the hell do you have a democracy to begin with? I agree with that, but I think that would involve ammending the constitution. I don't think there is going to be enough support to do that any time soon. I know. It's pretty silly that people stand by the constitution so much. Oh, and very tellingly only certain parts of the constitution. Second amendment is a big one -- "The right to bear arms as part of a well-organised militia," not "The right to bear arms as an American citizen." It's very much part of the U.S. cultural mentality, there are other countries that have just as many arms, but quite a number less shootings -- both intentional and accidental. What I find utterly appalling is that people have been tricked into believing such a terrible epidemic is normal. Such a thing should never be even under the best circumstances, but this... This is horrific.
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Post by jasonward on Jan 27, 2017 0:22:39 GMT
As for the UK? Well, the first past the post system needs to go. But AV was deemed too difficult to use by the Tories when the vote on changing to it happened. What baffled me was the likes of UKip coming out against it. If it had happened they would have made huge gains in the last election rather than the single seat they have. The people that like first past the post tend to like it because it tends to (or certainly has in our past) produce strong stable government, I suspect most UKIP supporters would prefer that and few seats to say the Italian way of politics and lots of seats.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 27, 2017 8:26:45 GMT
Yeah the worlds crappy, nothing hits harder than life & i know this from experience, you can either take the beating or fight back.
I come close to jacking it in, one extreme disaster after another, I've been sexually abused, violently bullied, cheated on, battled self medication & self harm & continue to battle my mental health issues everyday but why do i bother?....because i have two cousins who i love like my brothers & a wonderful 16 yr old niece who needs my support & advice.
The small things in life are the ones worth fighting for the most.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2017 8:44:07 GMT
Yeah the worlds crappy, nothing hits harder than life & i know this from experience, you can either take the beating or fight back. I come close to jacking it in, one extreme disaster after another, I've been sexually abused, violently bullied, cheated on, battled self medication & self harm & continue to battle my mental health issues everyday but why do i bother?....because i have two cousins who i love like my brothers & a wonderful 16 yr old niece who needs my support & advice. The small things in life are the ones worth fighting for the most. Precisely. At the end of the day, it's the small, beautiful things that are what life is really all about.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jan 28, 2017 17:56:53 GMT
Yeah the worlds crappy, nothing hits harder than life & i know this from experience, you can either take the beating or fight back. I come close to jacking it in, one extreme disaster after another, I've been sexually abused, violently bullied, cheated on, battled self medication & self harm & continue to battle my mental health issues everyday but why do i bother?....because i have two cousins who i love like my brothers & a wonderful 16 yr old niece who needs my support & advice. The small things in life are the ones worth fighting for the most. That's because you, mate, are a gent. Good to know you, even if it is only virtually.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Jan 28, 2017 18:38:38 GMT
More people, than can be counted, have died defending it, as would I. It's only been amended 27 times, and I support the electoral college. It takes overwhelming support to amend the constitution, about like it takes 75 percent to make the hall of fame in baseball, it's hard to get 3 out of 4 people to agree on anything, much less everything. But why do you defend it so much is my question. Surely there are definite problems with it. I know the Republicans want to keep the constitution as it is, but gun control is a big problem. Now on both sides. Many people have shot police officers and there have been a tons of hateful terror attacks killing many innocents. Also, trying to phrase this as best I can, why do people want to keep the electoral college. I can understand the system we have over in the UK, where we elect local representatives for our area. But in America it's quite severely different. Many of us think of it as the written word of many of our freedoms. Much like a guaranteed contract between we, the people of the United States of America, and our elected officials. Like peace treaties and such today, talk is cheap, and nothing is confirmed until it is committed to paper, and signed. We the people, have signed our part in the blood of our ancestors who have served this country, it may seem a bit, simplistic, but that's just the way I see it. There are problems with it, but as far as gun control goes, that is one topic that many of us are not willing to budge on. We have made it very hard for a good law abiding citizen to obtain a gun, but a criminal still has no problem buying one from another criminal. While not agreeing with Obama on much, I did like his idea of adding a tracker to every new gun manufactured, so that you can always keep up with where it is, was and when it was used, but the cost would have been extraordinary. I also liked his idea of guns that basically work only to a person's hand or fingerprint, that's something from the world's of doctor who. As far as tons of hateful terror attacks killing innocent people, well, 4 planes killed 2977 innocent people, but I don't see anyone wanting to ban airplanes. Because it wasn't the airplane's fault, It was the fault of the 19 hijackers, nobody forced them to use an airplane, just as nobody forces someone to use a gun against their will. As the old saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. The electoral college is a system that is hard to understand, the way it was explained to me, many years ago, was even complicated. In some parts of the country you have hundreds of people living in the same building, in other parts you might have 1 or 2 people living on square miles of property. now you have all of those hundreds of people working at different jobs all making a living, and those few people employing others to work, paying more in taxes, and working just as hard as the hundreds of others. The teacher then asked so who is worth more? I told you this was many years ago. Then she tried to answer her own question. All are worth the same, and not one person is valued more than another, but with 2 very different types of living, and living spaces, the electoral college was the system that our founding fathers came up with. Is it fair? I think it is, and in being the first system of it's kind, in the first free country in the whole world, I think it's held up pretty well. (This was the first time I ever got to use a voting machine, and I remember voting for John Anderson, while also on the ballot was Ronald Regan, and Jimmy Carter, if yall cant figure out the year, then learn some history. ) One question for you, do you folks not get to vote for your Prime Minister? As far as local elections goes, some of the lines drawn up for local and state representatives are a pure joke, they(the politicians) are always trying to redraw the lines in order to help assure themselves re-election. If you google some of the lines in some states, some of them look like weird figure 8's or even animal balloons, but the elected officials want to reshape their 'territory' to fit their chosen party, like I said, to help insure re-election. Hope that helps. U.S.A.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 28, 2017 20:21:27 GMT
But why do you defend it so much is my question. Surely there are definite problems with it. I know the Republicans want to keep the constitution as it is, but gun control is a big problem. Now on both sides. Many people have shot police officers and there have been a tons of hateful terror attacks killing many innocents. Also, trying to phrase this as best I can, why do people want to keep the electoral college. I can understand the system we have over in the UK, where we elect local representatives for our area. But in America it's quite severely different. As far as tons of hateful terror attacks killing innocent people, well, 4 planes killed 2977 innocent people, but I don't see anyone wanting to ban airplanes. Because it wasn't the airplane's fault, It was the fault of the 19 hijackers, nobody forced them to use an airplane, just as nobody forces someone to use a gun against their will. As the old saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people. After 9/11, airport security changed a lot though. Nowadays, you have to go through a metal detector and an xray machine, take off your shoes, get rid of any liquid, and be patted down before you can get on an airplane. They made these changes because, after 9/11, they realized that airplanes are dangerous and we shouldn't let any idiot get on one without taking precautions. No one is seriously suggesting that we completely ban guns (though I wouldn't complain if we did). We just want it to be much more difficult to buy a gun, just like it is now much more difficult to get on an airplane.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 28, 2017 23:02:03 GMT
This ad from a couple of years ago pretty much sums up how I feel about guns laws. I do not advocate the repeal of the 2nd Amendment. I do advocate common sense gun control laws including mandatory background checks, closing the gun show loopholes, proficiency testing in order to obtain a license, semi-annual proficiency testing and insurance. Basically what anyone who wants to own & operate a car has to go through plus the background checks. It has always struck me as hypocritical that conservatives argue for an originalist interpretation of the US Constitution except when it applies to the 2nd Amendment. That the gun lobby aka the NRA, refuses to even allow debate on these items is absurd. That the GOP in Congress have made it illegal for the CDC to do scientific studies of the effects of gun violence is also absurd. And the ridiculous thing of course is up until the late 2000's the 2nd Amendment didn't even say what the NRA insisted it did. This is what former Chief Justice Warren Burger, a conservative who was against gay rights and voted in favor of Roe v. Wade, said back in 1990 –
“The Gun Lobby’s interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime. The real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies – the militia – would be maintained for the defense of the state. The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires.”
Burger is clear on this issue – the Second Amendment is not an individual rights law. The framers clearly lived in a world where they expected weapons to be used for self-defense and game, but that was left to the state laws.
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Post by icecreamdf on Jan 29, 2017 0:17:16 GMT
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Post by kimalysong on Jan 29, 2017 0:47:23 GMT
I've literally been crying looking at some of the tweets. He had no right to do this. These people were entering the country legally.
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