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Post by elkawho on May 27, 2017 16:12:42 GMT
I personally love both Batman and Superman for different reasons, but Superman will always be tops for me. As a kid, when I longed to read comics (my mother wouldn't allow it) it was Superman that I wanted to read. I fell in love with Chris Reeves portrayal when I was 8 and never looked back.
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Post by kurumais on May 27, 2017 19:44:23 GMT
my buddies and i are debating who is more popular in the world batman or superman? thanks Not a question here for my gang. Dredd you only get 2 choices batman or superman its not the most popular comic character or your favorite its about how the whole world as many world citizens of the world this forum has, giving their opinion who they believe is the more popular of these 2 superhero icons is. and i believe the folks around here have a pretty educated opinion how superheroes are seen. whether its in comics, video games, cartoons, tv , and movies. thanks again
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Post by charlesuirdhein on May 27, 2017 20:30:58 GMT
Not a question here for my gang. Dredd you only get 2 choices batman or superman its not the most popular comic character or your favorite its about how the whole world as many world citizens of the world this forum has, giving their opinion who they believe is the more popular of these 2 superhero icons is. and i believe the folks around here have a pretty educated opinion how superheroes are seen. whether its in comics, video games, cartoons, tv , and movies. thanks again Right so. I'll delete my post, smiley face and all.
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aztec
Chancellery Guard
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Post by aztec on May 27, 2017 21:06:18 GMT
I won't speak for my countrymen, but I don't like bats very much finding them rather creepy, but I do like soup, cream of mushroom or a good beef or lamb broth please.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 21:32:47 GMT
Personally, despite what one's personal preference may be, if we're going by modern times then I don't see how this is even really a debate. Batman has had more feature films, more successful and long running comic titles, more cartoons, more animated movies, more videogames, more popular spin-off characters, more merchandise released than not just Superman, but any other DC comic book character full stop. Superman has the edge as far as number of TV shows, but that's about it. And it is almost (but not quite) unheard of for any of the Bat franchise stuff to fail to do well financially. The Batman character is a global juggernaut and franchise behemoth, and though already hugely popular beforehand, has pretty much sat at the very top of the comic book character tree since Burton's Batman kicked off the era of Bat dominance. In terms of public awareness, financial success, widespread popularity, and just sheer cross platform content dominance, I honestly don't think any other comic character from DC, and only Spider-Man from Marvel, are in the same ballpark. There are quite a few other heavy hitters from both Marvel and DC, no doubt, and Superman is definitely still one of them, but for the last quarter century or so, Batman has been king of the DC hill without question.
That's my take on things, anyway.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 4:04:49 GMT
Personally, I prefer Superman. I love Bats, really, I do (best rogues gallery in comics EVER), but I just adore the sense of hope, optimism and compassion that Supes embodies and I don't care honestly if that isn't 'cool' enough.
Needless to say, I hate even the idea of Injustice. (WHHHHYHY? WHY DOES IT EVEN EXIST?)
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 4:16:21 GMT
Of course, comics are increasingly niche and the medium exists primarily to provide source material for the stuff that makes the real money. This is completely correct, but it still kind of breaks my brain to think about it. So many people know that the big comic companies are DC and Marvel--and yet the vast majority of single-issue publications do not exceed 50,000 units shipped, and most don't even come close to that. Meanwhile, the first Avengers film raked in $1.5 billion. I find that much of a contrast to be just staggering.
To be fair, in the US - and correct me if I'm wrong here - but isn't it true you can't exactly buy comics off the news rack anymore for the last twenty years or so? (You can in Australia, albiet delayed. I buy mine from a comic book shop which get's it's comics a few days post-US). Avaliability is a huge factor in reaching out to more casual audiences and while yes, you can buy comics digitally, Comixology does kind of steer towards a certain type of customer.
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Post by Digi on May 29, 2017 10:50:05 GMT
This is completely correct, but it still kind of breaks my brain to think about it. So many people know that the big comic companies are DC and Marvel--and yet the vast majority of single-issue publications do not exceed 50,000 units shipped, and most don't even come close to that. Meanwhile, the first Avengers film raked in $1.5 billion. I find that much of a contrast to be just staggering.
To be fair, in the US - and correct me if I'm wrong here - but isn't it true you can't exactly buy comics off the news rack anymore for the last twenty years or so? (You can in Australia, albiet delayed. I buy mine from a comic book shop which get's it's comics a few days post-US). Avaliability is a huge factor in reaching out to more casual audiences and while yes, you can buy comics digitally, Comixology does kind of steer towards a certain type of customer.
Couldn't speak to how the US does things, but that's essentially correct here in Canada. You can still find things like Archie at the grocery store cash register, but if you're after Batman or Iron Man or The Walking Dead or whathaveyou, you can really only find them in comic shops.
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Post by constonks on May 29, 2017 11:33:06 GMT
If we go by comics sales, Batman outsells Superman by a significant factor. Of course, comics are increasingly niche and the medium exists primarily to provide source material for the stuff that makes the real money. Kinda puts the whole "you're not sticking close enough to the comics" thing in perspective, doesn't it? Anyway - on topic: Batman. I've not read a lot of comics, but those around me who have all lean Batman. And from just films and a handful of comics, I'd say Batman as well.
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Post by omega on May 29, 2017 11:46:04 GMT
In the Batman corner, his rogues are a lot more memorable. Ask someone to name Superman villains, and you'd probably get Lex Luthor and Brainiac. This also connects to villains who debuted in Batman's and Superman's respective animated series. Anyone here know who Livewire is, and not just because she was on the Supergirl TV show? Okay then, how about Harley Quinn? That's right, Harley was created for Batman: The Animated Series yet she and her Puddin' are so well known.
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Post by theotherjosh on May 29, 2017 12:48:32 GMT
In the Batman corner, his rogues are a lot more memorable. Ask someone to name Superman villains, and you'd probably get Lex Luthor and Brainiac. This also connects to villains who debuted in Batman's and Superman's respective animated series. Anyone here know who Livewire is, and not just because she was on the Supergirl TV show? Okay then, how about Harley Quinn? That's right, Harley was created for Batman: The Animated Series yet she and her Puddin' are so well known. I'm the biggest Superman booster around and even I will concede that point. Batman's villains are iconic. Only Spider-man ( maybe) has a better Rogue's Gallery. Batman has Joker, Bane and Poison Ivy. Superman is a ridiculously powerful demigod who could kill you with a hard stare and he's got two non-powered toy-themed adversaries (Prankster and Toyman). Step up your game, Supes!
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Post by theotherjosh on May 29, 2017 12:53:45 GMT
Personally, I prefer Superman. I love Bats, really, I do (best rogues gallery in comics EVER), but I just adore the sense of hope, optimism and compassion that Supes embodies and I don't care honestly if that isn't 'cool' enough.
Needless to say, I hate even the idea of Injustice. (WHHHHYHY? WHY DOES IT EVEN EXIST?) THIS! I wish DC would stop paying people who hate Superman to write stories about Superman. An evil Superman in an Elseworlds is only slightly less common than a dead Spider-man in an issue of "What If?" There are literally hundreds of variations on this, but they're all mostly the same story. It's not a good story, by itself, or a bad story. Much like anything, it depends on how its told. However, I tend to be suspicious of people whose only idea for a story about Superman is one where Superman turns evil, because I think an even more essential element to the character even than his great power is his great goodness. The central premise of these evil Superman stories really seems to come down to the belief that Superman is only a hero because he doesn't know any better, because he's never faced any challenge or tragedy, and that his naive idealism is so brittle that it will crumble with one good shock. A story with an evil Superman can sometimes work, if you contrast the man he has become against a character who has been defined by a lifetime of good deeds. Take the Justice Lords two-parter in the JLA series. But if your story opens with Superman suffering some tragedy and going, "I guess I'm evil now," so you can write a story where you destroy the character twice, once when he betrays his values and again when he's beaten down by tougher stronger, better heroes who stood tough and didn't break when the going got rough, well, pardon me if I don't want to pay my money to support this.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 13:00:54 GMT
In the People's Apple Republic of Snorsh, we have the off-brand Superbat whose parents were murdered by an angry planet.
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Post by omega on May 30, 2017 9:25:59 GMT
In the Batman corner, his rogues are a lot more memorable. Ask someone to name Superman villains, and you'd probably get Lex Luthor and Brainiac. This also connects to villains who debuted in Batman's and Superman's respective animated series. Anyone here know who Livewire is, and not just because she was on the Supergirl TV show? Okay then, how about Harley Quinn? That's right, Harley was created for Batman: The Animated Series yet she and her Puddin' are so well known. I'm the biggest Superman booster around and even I will concede that point. Batman's villains are iconic. Only Spider-man ( maybe) has a better Rogue's Gallery. Batman has Joker, Bane and Poison Ivy. Superman is a ridiculously powerful demigod who could kill you with a hard stare and he's got two non-powered toy-themed adversaries (Prankster and Toyman). Step up your game, Supes! This also shows in the movies. For villains Batman has had Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Mr Freeze, Bane and Ra's Al Ghul, and that's just off the top of my head not counting Suicide Squad. Meanwhile Superman has had Lex Luthor (the movie, Returns and Dawn of Justice), Zod (II, Man of Steel) and while Doomsday was in Dawn of Justice, it wasn't in any great capacity. Darkseid is the ultimate goal for the DC Cinematic Universe, but he's yet to appear in person. In the extras on the DVD for Superman: The Complete Animated Series, the writers admitted they had to work to come up with genuine threats for Superman to face. While he's not as powerful as he is sometimes depicted (his respiratory system can't handle space or being asphyxiated), the villains are tailored to make the fights harder. Ironically Mxyzptlk, a fifth dimensional reality warper, was seen as an annoyance by Supes and he easily outfoxed Mxy many times (one of them we see Mxy leave his dimension in a robot suit and five seconds later he's back with the suit broken, warning his girlfriend "Not. One Word.") once the condition of his name spelled backwards was introduced. In order to keep up with Supes, some of his villains need to be brainy to compensate for lack of brawn. Lex Luthor often relies on his mind for his latest scheme to stop Superman, he can't just wave a handful of Kryptonite around. The fact Clark could have ended the plot of the episode was evident in later seasons of Smallville, where the writers had to make it so he couldn't just knock out the bad guy and save the people is trouble or he didn't find out about it until the twenty minute mark where he could get the location from Chloe and speed in to bring the episode's conflict to a conclusion. It did help the supporting cast were getting their own subplots and ongoing storylines independent of Clark.
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Post by theotherjosh on May 30, 2017 13:33:29 GMT
This also shows in the movies. For villains Batman has had Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Mr Freeze, Bane and Ra's Al Ghul, and that's just off the top of my head not counting Suicide Squad. Meanwhile Superman has had Lex Luthor (the movie, Returns and Dawn of Justice), Zod (II, Man of Steel) and while Doomsday was in Dawn of Justice, it wasn't in any great capacity. Darkseid is the ultimate goal for the DC Cinematic Universe, but he's yet to appear in person. In the extras on the DVD for Superman: The Complete Animated Series, the writers admitted they had to work to come up with genuine threats for Superman to face. While he's not as powerful as he is sometimes depicted (his respiratory system can't handle space or being asphyxiated), the villains are tailored to make the fights harder. Ironically Mxyzptlk, a fifth dimensional reality warper, was seen as an annoyance by Supes and he easily outfoxed Mxy many times (one of them we see Mxy leave his dimension in a robot suit and five seconds later he's back with the suit broken, warning his girlfriend "Not. One Word.") once the condition of his name spelled backwards was introduced. In order to keep up with Supes, some of his villains need to be brainy to compensate for lack of brawn. Lex Luthor often relies on his mind for his latest scheme to stop Superman, he can't just wave a handful of Kryptonite around. The fact Clark could have ended the plot of the episode was evident in later seasons of Smallville, where the writers had to make it so he couldn't just knock out the bad guy and save the people is trouble or he didn't find out about it until the twenty minute mark where he could get the location from Chloe and speed in to bring the episode's conflict to a conclusion. It did help the supporting cast were getting their own subplots and ongoing storylines independent of Clark. I can’t dispute a single thing you’ve said here. Superman’s pool of villains is extraordinarily shallow, and it’s further limited by real-world timing. I’ve heard that Braniac was off the table because of concerns that he would appear too similar to Ultron, and while it seems that they’re saving Darkseid as an overarching Big Bad, they’re probably reluctant to introduce him because it’s going to look like they’re ripping off Thanos, which is kind of funny, given their history. I think Superman was poorly treated in the DCAU. In Superman: The Animated Series: {Spoiler} I would preferred that Superman not be the villain in the final episodes of his own series. In Justice League/JLU, he either argues with Batman and is shown to be wrong about everything, or he’s curbstomped by the villain of the week to show how tough the latest baddie is. Near the end, he gets the World of Cardboard speech, but even after that, he’s immediately knocked on his face. Re: Villains: Zod is pretty great. I’d put him right up with Luthor and Brainiac as a top tier Superman villain. I guess Doomsday is up there too, but he’s so one-note that I tend not to like his stories. I think something could be done with what he eventually became in the comics, where his backstory was retconned to be a bio-engineered creature designed to kill Kryptonians, and which adapted to what killed him. I think he’s a bit “Grrrr….Arg!” to serve as a primary adversary however. Bizarro could work if handled right, but he’s probably best as somebody else’s muscle. So that takes us to the second tier, Metallo, Mongul. Parasite could work. The Eradicator. Cyborg Superman, but Supergirl has probably shut down that avenue for a while. I’m sure we could scrape the bottom of the barrel and find some Conduits or Imperiexes to fight. Oh, heck, why not throw in a Solaris the Tyrant Sun while we’re at it? We could also steal a bunch of LOSH villains. That’s working out pretty well for Supergirl. I think this is just a symptom of the real problem. It’s a common criticism that he’s too powerful to be easily challenged. Pre-Crisis Superman, you’re certainly willing to address these claims if you’re not too busy beating up God and pushing around suns. I like Superman, but the stories which suit him best don’t ask if he CAN do something, but if he SHOULD. Unfortunately, these are the kind of stories that are not well suited to animation. (And frankly, even speaking as someone who really enjoys these stories, I think a steady diet of them would be boring.) I think the Brandon Routh movie (aka “Superman lifts successively heavier things”) showed that Superman does need some overt conflict to work. He’s a tricky character to write well. Alfred Bester was considered to write the screenplay for the 1978 Superman movie. He wanted to focus the story on Clark Kent as the real hero, while Superman was only "his gun." (Which, of course, makes me think of The Iron Giant.) I like that turn of phrase, though I doubt I would have said it that way myself. But my favorite interpretation of Superman is the super-powered Kansas farm boy who never wants to see anyone hurt or scared or hungry. All-Star Superman gets him better than any other work, I think. When he’s speaking at Johnathan Kent’s funeral, he says his father taught him that the strong have to “stand up” for the weak. I like the wording there, because the connotation is less parochial than if he had said “protect”. To me, it means that Superman recognizes that it’s not his place to chart humanity’s course. He’ll intervene to protect them from outside context threats because he’s best suited to do so, but that’s just an intermediate stage. He’s just standing up for humanity until they get strong enough to do it themselves. He’s a mentor, not a savior.
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Post by Ela on Jun 5, 2017 3:51:37 GMT
I knew about Superman first, as a kid. When I found out about Batman, I was buying Batman and Superman comics equally often.
I don't like some of the changes that have been made to the Superman character in recent years, I'll say that.
I still remember watching Superman on TV in black and white with George Reeves as Superman.
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Post by omega on Jun 5, 2017 4:03:41 GMT
I do think Bizarro could be done in the DCEU, just not as the main bad guy. It would give Henry Cavill something different to work with and a villain with more depth than is usually done in a superhero movie. Wonder Woman would be a good mentor for him, since she faced and survived the worst of humanity in her movie. At least in what I've seen if Bizarro, he's a tragic figure, someone looking for a place to call home rather than an out and out bad guy. Written as someone trying to work out his identity (him saying "Me am" is a bit cartoony), it could just work.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Jun 5, 2017 8:10:05 GMT
Having just read "The Caped Crusade" by Glen Weldon, an examination of Batman and the rise of nerd culture, it seems that Superman, despite "dorkiness", has overall outsold Batman, however cool Bats may be, or is perceived to be.
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Post by kurumais on Jun 10, 2017 18:22:49 GMT
very surprising to me
it just seems to me bats is so much more popular than superman
i'm a big comic book fan as you might know. since the 80's batman just shot to super duper stardom
starting with the dark knight returns, batman and the outsiders, batman year one.
then the tim burton movies and the other ones not so much
batman the animated series spawned a whole new generation of bat fans. i use to say in the early 2000's, scratch a fangirl you will find she started with batman TAS.
in the justice league cartoon superman was always getting punched around, meanwhile batman would dodge throw something and it a win.
then the nolan movies nuff said
the arckam games made what like a bazillion dollars
i just dont see superman with that sort of pop culture footprint
thanks again to everyone who responded
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Post by doctorkernow on Jul 9, 2017 10:02:16 GMT
Hello again.
One hero is quite enough for me..! However, Spiderman always been my favourite because he was an accidental hero who makes mistakes.
I'm afraid Batman was almost irreversibly destroyed by Batman and Robin, still the worst film I have ever watched in the cinema. Although I did enjoy the 60s version and the first two 90s Batman films.
Superman is only ever Christopher Reeve really. Although the first two series of the Dean Cain and Terri Hatcher's Superman 'sitcom' was quite entertaining. More interesting was the first two series of Smallville. A prequel where we learnt about Superman before he moved to Metropolis.
As characters, they all have strengths, weaknesses and interesting stories, but as for me I'll always be on Team Doctor...
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