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Post by TinDogPodcast on Sept 14, 2017 6:00:01 GMT
I over reacted by locking this thread.
My apologies to anyone affected
I still stand by my last statements
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 12:30:58 GMT
I over reacted by locking this thread. Fair enough. (I did think out of all of the threads here it was a strange thread to get locked.)
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 14, 2017 17:58:54 GMT
I over reacted by locking this thread. My apologies to anyone affected I still stand by my last statements That's fine. No harm, no foul.
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Post by theotherjosh on Sept 15, 2017 12:45:20 GMT
Why does this thread exist on our forum? Seriously guys, when this place was set up after the closure of BF's forum can any of us imagine that this is what we'd be talking about? I certainly can't. And there are others like it. Although I'm not particularly interested in a discussion of the death penalty, I'm glad that the forum has an area to discuss topics outside the scope of Doctor Who. In general, I like everybody here and this forum is my only opportunity to interact with them. I think a lot of the discussion is well-written and reasonable, and I enjoy reading thoughtful posts, even if I don't agree with all of them.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 16:40:28 GMT
Do you believe in the old addage of 'eye for an eye' in law, order and justice, or do you see this punishment as outdated and ineffective as a deterant? it is ineffective as a deterrent, but it was a great deterrent when their were public hangings...if the law was worded differently, and cops and prosecutors face the same punishment for lying to convict, well, my whole argument would be a lot simpler....as it is, to end someone's life the trial should be beyond reproach...the evidence, overwhelming & every member of the jury plus the judge, debriefed about their judgement immediately following a death sentence...killing someone should not be easy, but is sometimes necessary, I'm very sorry to say.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 16:45:13 GMT
No crime is worth a person's life and the sooner we figure that out, the better off we are as a society. I'll strongly disagree with that...anyone capable of molesting, torturing, then killing a child under the age of 10, deserves a lot worse than a quick, execution...no excuses for that, period...
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 16:47:08 GMT
There's no evidence to that the death penalty serves as deterrence, Really? Have you ever been to Singapore? it does work there, as does their laws on theft and rape...
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 16:48:55 GMT
Really? Have you ever been to Singapore? Really. Have you been to Alpha-Centuri? this right here, is what's called, baiting for a fight, cause you don't like someone else's view, and it's not necessary.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 16:51:15 GMT
Strong nay. But I do fully support getting medieval on rapists, child molesters, and people who talk during movies. so cut off their uh huhs and such? And use gorilla tape over mouths in the theatres, Cause I agree with that.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 16:56:28 GMT
Why does this thread exist on our forum? Seriously guys, when this place was set up after the closure of BF's forum can any of us imagine that this is what we'd be talking about? I certainly can't. And there are others like it. bluntly, because everyone on here is supposed to be an adult, perceived to have an actual life, and raised very differently one from another...how can we learn, if we don't question? And how well do you learn when subjugated to the same kind of thinking that you already posses without the ability to hear other good folks opinions?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 19:01:27 GMT
No crime is worth a person's life and the sooner we figure that out, the better off we are as a society. I'll strongly disagree with that...anyone capable of molesting, torturing, then killing a child under the age of 10, deserves a lot worse than a quick, execution...no excuses for that, period... What if they are over 10?
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 21:19:55 GMT
To me, I would execute someone doing as described, to anyone from birth to death, but to a small child, that person has nothing but hatred, for everyone, and is pure evil...
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Dec 9, 2017 21:20:46 GMT
Oh look.
This thread is back...
Annoyed face.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2017 21:24:27 GMT
Oh look. This thread is back... Annoyed face. Why annoyed?
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 21:27:26 GMT
A very controversial subject. But one that needs dealing with...sorry K9, now lift up that head, and dry hose tears, you might rust...how you been tin dog?
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Post by mrperson on Dec 9, 2017 21:43:38 GMT
The only way I would accept it is in an impossible scenario in which the two following things are true:
1. The jury is infallible as to guilt.
2. The penalty is applied objectively.
Neither is true. I do not find it acceptable in any circumstances to execute people where we have and continue to excecute innocents. Further, we've known for quite some time of racial bias in application of the death penalty. Apart from that bias, juries are all different.
We have a non-DP related problem in MA. We have three versions of 1st degree murder, one of which is "extreme atrocity and cruelty". Yet, there are cases where someone has been convicted of 1st degree murder on that theory for killing someone with a single gunshot, while other people have gotten 2nd degree murder for beating someone to death horribly. Yet the guy with 2nd degree has a possibility of parole, while the guy with 1st does not.
I cannot countenance executing someone in such circumstances. And besides, the way I see it, I'd rather be executed than face life without possibility of parole.
I might say otherwise if I was actually being walked to the injection table, but that's natural. If I consider objectively, neutrally, then I'd much rather not bother with the whole life in prison thing. Seems a worse overall punishment to me. That's especially true if the person ends up in Federal Supermax Prison, like the "boston marathon bomber".
He will spend the rest of his life slowly losing his sanity in a bright, tiny, and empty cell, every second taking an hour to pass, with - I think - one hour a day to walk in circles in an enclosed "exercise" yard. To me, that is hell. I'd demand execution if I could, in that circumstance.
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Post by ulyssessarcher on Dec 9, 2017 23:17:56 GMT
The only way I would accept it is in an impossible scenario in which the two following things are true: 1. The jury is infallible as to guilt. 2. The penalty is applied objectively. Neither is true. I do not find it acceptable in any circumstances to execute people where we have and continue to excecute innocents. Further, we've known for quite some time of racial bias in application of the death penalty. Apart from that bias, juries are all different. We have a non-DP related problem in MA. We have three versions of 1st degree murder, one of which is "extreme atrocity and cruelty". Yet, there are cases where someone has been convicted of 1st degree murder on that theory for killing someone with a single gunshot, while other people have gotten 2nd degree murder for beating someone to death horribly. Yet the guy with 2nd degree has a possibility of parole, while the guy with 1st does not. I cannot countenance executing someone in such circumstances. And besides, the way I see it, I'd rather be executed than face life without possibility of parole. I might say otherwise if I was actually being walked to the injection table, but that's natural. If I consider objectively, neutrally, then I'd much rather not bother with the whole life in prison thing. Seems a worse overall punishment to me. That's especially true if the person ends up in Federal Supermax Prison, like the "boston marathon bomber". He will spend the rest of his life slowly losing his sanity in a bright, tiny, and empty cell, every second taking an hour to pass, with - I think - one hour a day to walk in circles in an enclosed "exercise" yard. To me, that is hell. I'd demand execution if I could, in that circumstance. thank you...your opinion is far too logical...have y'all watched, the big bang theory, it's bout me, a nerd, just kidding. It's the story of Sheldon Cooper...a very wise, and confounded man, in his own way.... Well, your post is early Sheldon, logical...honest, well thought out and should be in du hall of fame, I'm drunk.anyway Not all of us, can be that logical, because folks like me, we care too dam much...bout the victim's and the possible future victim s. We are the worries, yep spelled right..at least I am. It's not logical, but neither is our actual existence..
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Post by mrperson on Dec 9, 2017 23:34:52 GMT
The only way I would accept it is in an impossible scenario in which the two following things are true: 1. The jury is infallible as to guilt. 2. The penalty is applied objectively. Neither is true. I do not find it acceptable in any circumstances to execute people where we have and continue to excecute innocents. Further, we've known for quite some time of racial bias in application of the death penalty. Apart from that bias, juries are all different. We have a non-DP related problem in MA. We have three versions of 1st degree murder, one of which is "extreme atrocity and cruelty". Yet, there are cases where someone has been convicted of 1st degree murder on that theory for killing someone with a single gunshot, while other people have gotten 2nd degree murder for beating someone to death horribly. Yet the guy with 2nd degree has a possibility of parole, while the guy with 1st does not. I cannot countenance executing someone in such circumstances. And besides, the way I see it, I'd rather be executed than face life without possibility of parole. I might say otherwise if I was actually being walked to the injection table, but that's natural. If I consider objectively, neutrally, then I'd much rather not bother with the whole life in prison thing. Seems a worse overall punishment to me. That's especially true if the person ends up in Federal Supermax Prison, like the "boston marathon bomber". He will spend the rest of his life slowly losing his sanity in a bright, tiny, and empty cell, every second taking an hour to pass, with - I think - one hour a day to walk in circles in an enclosed "exercise" yard. To me, that is hell. I'd demand execution if I could, in that circumstance. thank you...your opinion is far too logical...have y'all watched, the big bang theory, it's bout me, a nerd, just kidding. It's the story of Sheldon Cooper...a very wise, and confounded man, in his own way.... Well, your post is early Sheldon, logical...honest, well thought out and should be in du hall of fame, I'm drunk.anyway Not all of us, can be that logical, because folks like me, we care too dam much...bout the victim's and the possible future victim s. We are the worries, yep spelled right..at least I am. It's not logical, but neither is our actual existence.. Well it is Saturday, it is snowing, and I have had a few glasses of whiskey. Wouldn't say I'm drunk, but cheers. Anyway, on the more general point, I think the most important thing that anyone who wants to affect or even talk about public policy is to try to be purely logical. None of us are Spock. That's impossible. But I find that if you seek to identify what you are feeling and why you are feeling it, you have a much better shot at assessing things dispassionately, logically. The death penalty debate is one of the bigger tests for this (as are things like abortion debates). People feel strongly. And there really is a perfectly natural inclination to want to inflict pain, to inflict vengeance, to be brutal so as to protect one's tribe. Among the many things that civilization is is an arduous climb towards simply being better. Besides, like I said, life w/o parole seems worse than death, at least when I'm behind a keyboard and not facing a guillotine.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 9, 2017 23:35:43 GMT
And take it from someone who was saved from execution near the last minute..... "Well, at all events it is a good thing that there's no pain when the poor fellow's head flies off," he remarked. "Do you know, though," cried the prince warmly, "you made that remark now, and everyone says the same thing, and the machine is designed with the purpose of avoiding pain, this guillotine I mean; but a thought came into my head then: what if it be a bad plan after all? You may laugh at my idea, perhaps—but I could not help its occurring to me all the same. Now with the rack and tortures and so on—you suffer terrible pain of course; but then your torture is bodily pain only (although no doubt you have plenty of that) until you die. But here I should imagine the most terrible part of the whole punishment is, not the bodily pain at all—but the certain knowledge that in an hour,—then in ten minutes, then in half a minute, then now—this very instant—your soul must quit your body and that you will no longer be a man—and that this is certain, certain! That's the point—the certainty of it. Just that instant when you place your head on the block and hear the iron grate over your head—then—that quarter of a second is the most awful of all. "This is not my own fantastical opinion—many people have thought the same; but I feel it so deeply that I'll tell you what I think. I believe that to execute a man for murder is to punish him immeasurably more dreadfully than is equivalent to his crime. A murder by sentence is far more dreadful than a murder committed by a criminal. The man who is attacked by robbers at night, in a dark wood, or anywhere, undoubtedly hopes and hopes that he may yet escape until the very moment of his death. There are plenty of instances of a man running away, or imploring for mercy—at all events hoping on in some degree—even after his throat was cut. But in the case of an execution, that last hope—having which it is so immeasurably less dreadful to die,—is taken away from the wretch and certainty substituted in its place! There is his sentence, and with it that terrible certainty that he cannot possibly escape death—which, I consider, must be the most dreadful anguish in the world. You may place a soldier before a cannon's mouth in battle, and fire upon him—and he will still hope. But read to that same soldier his death-sentence, and he will either go mad or burst into tears. Who dares to say that any man can suffer this without going mad? No, no! it is an abuse, a shame, it is unnecessary—why should such a thing exist? Doubtless there may be men who have been sentenced, who have suffered this mental anguish for a while and then have been reprieved; perhaps such men may have been able to relate their feelings afterwards. Our Lord Christ spoke of this anguish and dread. No! no! no! No man should be treated so, no man, no man!" The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoyevsky - Free Ebook
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Dec 10, 2017 11:48:01 GMT
Why does this thread exist on our forum? Seriously guys, when this place was set up after the closure of BF's forum can any of us imagine that this is what we'd be talking about? I certainly can't. And there are others like it. bluntly, because everyone on here is supposed to be an adult, perceived to have an actual life, and raised very differently one from another...how can we learn, if we don't question? And how well do you learn when subjugated to the same kind of thinking that you already posses without the ability to hear other good folks opinions? Bluntly? Because a death penalty solves nothing. We're not talking about "I damn well saw him murder those children, he confessed and its on camera" and so on. Law applies down the spectrum. When it comes to the death penalty the only question you need to ask is would you prefer that a killer live on in prison or an innocent die due to the human frailty of a judge and jury, or the corruption of evidence, or prejudice? My answer is yes to living. There are variations on this approach, as for example given by Mr Person above, unlike him I do favour life internment, possibly in that small cell he describes. And in once sense that is possibly crueler, but I know which I'd prefer if I were wrongly convicted. Over and Out.
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