When did fandom get it wrong?

I think it is a mistake to lump 'fandom' together as one big, erm, 'block'. The fans that, back in the 1980s, encouraged JNT to bring back elements from the past (after the success of the The Master's return in Keeper of Traken), and then criticised him for relying too much on the past - I think that mentality gets it wrong constantly, if it isn't too high-handed of me to say so. The 'entitled' vocal minority who demand things, and then criticise, criticise, criticise ... this gang of people are the one and only element of Doctor Who that enrages and frustrates me. Bring back Susan, the Master/Missy should have been The Rani, bring back Captain Jack, get rid of Clara, get rid of Bill, Moffat must go ... one thing I love already about Chris Chibnall is his quote "Doctor Who is not a focus group." Hooray for that! ("I agree, Doctor Who is not a focus group ... except when it goes against what I want for the show!") The Levine-styled fans who feel they somehow own the show get it wrong, in my view, constantly and really are best ignored. Tht's my rant of the day!

Seems okay to me. 


John, it doesn't really matter to me that much one way or another, but hey, maybe lighten up a little?

There is no right and wrong in fandom, just people with different opinions... some of which are a bit extreme at times granted, but it's still just an opinion at the end of the day.

For me? When the New Adventures wandered so far up itself trying to be "challenging" and "adult" and a certain section lapped it up and demanded more.

Rock n' Roll?

I think most fandom goes wrong when they begin to feel entitled to being treated or catered to in a certain way. The only thing any creative team owes anyone is to produce the best and most engaging material they can.

Er, I am of the Jon Pertwee/Tom Baker era...

That said, of course such things are, quite often, generational, I agree, but I still think Colin Baker especially gets hit with a lot more grief than any of the others, and certainly far, far more than he ever deserves to, regardless of one's personal feelings towards his, or the extended JNT, eras of the show.

I'm not quite sure how these two things got connected in one sentence - do you mean you think some of fandom might have got things wrong about Happiness Patrol? That could well be, because I think it may help to understand that it was meant as political commentary, and to understand the implications of that. Some of us in the states at the time might have had little idea it was some kind of comment on existing government somewhere. I always thought it was more like an abstract warning about what could happen anywhere if too much emphasis were placed on happiness at any cost, until reading up on the story behind the story the past few years.

On the other hand, I still think the show may have got that one just as wrong as any fans did, for having the villain go so far as doing things that might merit the degree of punitive measures that it maybe couldn't be implied that any real-life persons resembling the characters had coming. (Did I get all of those delicate bits right?) So after all the larger-than-life tyranny, the antagonist pouts and gets a gentle slap on the hand if even that much, which seems like very uncharacteristic behavior on The Doctor's part to be content with that. 

So things can already seem kind of farcical or a little surreal with Happiness Patrol even without Kandyman, and for the clever stuff involving lemonade I think maybe there was somehow an extremely thin line between absurdly camp and poetic justice? I still think of it as almost as bad as having Bat-Shark-Repellent in the Batcopter (which I'm certain must be camp at some of its most preposterous) for The Doctor to be wielding sugary beverages at something made of candy (I might still be able to accept it as poetic justice if I work hard and retrain myself), so for me there's been this number of things that seemed to be adding up wrong with the particular story, whereas, say, Paradise Towers didn't tip the scales as violently in favor against it even for it also seeming kind of silly in places, and also having what I think was a silly monster.

I similarly think Seven also seemed too lenient with Klein, although I can probably paste my head canon up a bit by maybe thinking he's having the odd horrible premonition of the Time War that he's not mentioning to anyone and therefore has far bigger things on his mind in places than personally making sure that a terrible tyrant or even a collaborator in galactic fascism gets every last thing that they might ordinarily be due, (or something like that) even if might ordinarily be irresponsible to give either one the chance to lapse into old ways for the price that others might have to pay for it?

Maybe sometimes it's good to remember that we can make our own adjustments like that to certain things we don't like. I probably don't get to complain quite as loudly about Kill The Moon, for example, if I can think of a 15-second scene to add that probably would have turned it into a great Doctor Who story (and I think I actually can, so I hope I'm about done bagging on that story). Likewise there are a couple of scenes from Big Finish audios that I may not allow near my head canon as-is, which really isn't any big deal at all. Amazing track record actually.

Dunno, maybe some fans get it wrong for allowing themselves to become too against change in a show that's been all about changes?

I know I got one very wrong for worrying so much as I did before the last season that it was going to repeat many of what I thought of as previous mistakes, because some of them almost seemed like they were becoming standards. I still manage some peeves about series 10, but I'm still pleasantly astonished at the number of things that I think were done right for Capaldi's final season. Currently at the top the list of NS episodes I'd like to watch again are all of series 10 and a handful of my favorite stories with the Tenth Doctor.

I know exactly what you mean. Bill Hartnell managed to be my first Doctor through reruns, but I think the closest thing I got to "my Doctors" (i.e. new incarnations onscreen while I was growing up) were probably the Ninth and Tenth. We were still using VHS tapes on a 4:3 television when they were first broadcasting. It's a weird feeling having more nostalgia for an incarnation fifty years past, instead of one that left only eight years ago. A very weird feeling.