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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 26, 2018 13:16:14 GMT
What's your opinion? Do people fundamentally change after adolescence? Or is it more a question of new circumstances serving to emphasize traits that were already there? Something in between? Something else entirely?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 18:18:40 GMT
Mmm. But do we agree on a definition of the nature of man (& woman)?
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 26, 2018 18:56:05 GMT
In this context I'd define it as core personality and values. Do they change, or do they manifest differently in changed circumstances?
(The thread title is a quote of the central question of Planescape: Torment. I wasn't trying to exclude anyone.)
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 26, 2018 19:09:04 GMT
I don't know. In some ways I am exactly the same person I was 30 or 40 years ago and in other ways, I am fundamentally different.
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Post by jasonward on Jan 26, 2018 22:22:15 GMT
The question assumes a universal answer, to which I say, there is no universal answer, find the right person, the right circumstances and you could use them as proof of just about any possible outcome.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 27, 2018 0:53:55 GMT
We are all the product of our circumstances and how we react to those circumstances can change us. Given that our personality is usually set in stone by the mie we reach adolescence, I'd say that many of our traits and tics are established for us then but they can be modified and altered by experience or the realisation that they need to change for future benefit. A spendthrift who experiences a financial collapse can learn prudence; an addictive personality can learn to moderate their response to stimuli; a generous person can become stingy and vice versa. It depends on their reaction to events. Ironically how we react to events is something that we also learn at an early age.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 0:12:16 GMT
Torment hit it pretty well on the head. Conflict uniquely changes the nature of every human being, that is true. For better and/or for worse, extreme stress of body and/or mind in particular has an impact on the human psyche, but it's what people believe that changes them. And that doesn't necessarily mean religion, it doesn't even necessarily mean faith. It can be as life-changing as one human being standing before another, putting their body between a cudgel and its intended victim or something as simple as a young woman choosing to wear jeans instead of a dress. All these little beliefs shape a person's world.
Beliefs are what people battle for and rail against on a daily basis. Everything from the anthropocentric concepts of duty, compassion and integrity to the fundamental place of a roiling mudball in the greater fabric of the cosmos. Change the belief of the man, change the nature of a man. To turn a coward into a hero, a bully into a protector, a critic into an advocate, what it takes is largely the sentiments of a person's own experiences. Since man is an inherently emotional animal, his experiences rely almost entirely upon an emotional component.
It's why compassion in a community is so highly prized, a happy people can sculpt entire worlds in subtlety and style where an unhappy one would simply, leadenly and wastefully destroy. It's why one of the very first examinations when treating depression is to have a person reevaluate their thoughts and thus, their behaviour. Thought manifests experiences and experiences manifest thought. Change the experiences, change the beliefs and thereafter, change the nature of a man.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 9:54:19 GMT
In this context I'd define it as core personality and values. Do they change, or do they manifest differently in changed circumstances? (The thread title is a quote of the central question of Planescape: Torment. I wasn't trying to exclude anyone.) But are you starting from the idea that there are set core values that we all share? A set in stone nature of man? Or just that people change over time, which seems quite obvious to be honest.
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 28, 2018 14:51:48 GMT
But are you starting from the idea that there are set core values that we all share? A set in stone nature of man? Ah, okay. I see where I went wrong. I didn't mean to imply that I was talking about universal core values common to all human beings, but rather the values that form the indentity of a particular individual's identity. I am theotherjosh and I believe in (for example) - The inherent worth and dignity of every person
- Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
- That cats make better pets than dogs
and all my other beliefs are built on the framework of this core. Or just that people change over time, which seems quite obvious to be honest. People change, but I'm asking how deep the change goes. People act differently under different circumstances. Do different reactions indicate a different manifestation of the same values under altered circumstances or do they indicate that those core values themselves have been fundamentally altered by the circumstances?
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 29, 2018 8:38:40 GMT
Until i was sexually abused by a neighbour i was a optimistic happy 12 yr old, but one awful tortuous moment 30 yrs ago completely changed my life & my personality into a cynical, moody, angry person, as Josh says core values & outlook can & were altered by those horrific circumstances that were took out of my control, i literally woke up that day one person & went to bed another person entirely.
it's only through therapy i started recently putting some demons to rest but I'll never be again the person i was before that trauma as I've seen the evil side of humanity.
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