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Post by omega on Mar 15, 2018 7:04:34 GMT
So, vote in the poll, rank the three seasons and if you want to, do a top five or ten of your favorite stories. Favorite season is a tough one, but I'll go with season 19. It's got good variety, plus two very solid stories in Kinda and Earthshock. Second place is season 21, simply because it's got Caves of Androzani and I think other stories have merit despite their flaws (Warriors of the Deep could have had brilliant atmosphere if it weren't lit up like a rugby field). Season 20 has some fine stories as well. 1) Caves of Androzani 2) Earthshock 3) Kinda 4) The Visitation 5) Enlightenment Season 19 - Castrovalva
- Four to Doomsday
- Kinda
- The Visitation
- Black Orchid
- Earthshock
- Time-Flight
Season 20- Arc of Infinity
- Snakedance
- Mawdryn Undead
- Terminus
- Enlightenment
- The King's Demons
- The Five Doctors
Season 21- Warriors of the Deep
- The Awakening
- Frontios
- Resurrection of the Daleks
- Planet of Fire
- The Caves of Androzani
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 9:31:36 GMT
I can't say I'm a big fan of the Fifth Doctor at all, but from what I've seen, Season 19 clearly wins out. Yes, it does have Time-Flight, but it also has Castrovalva and Earthshock which are both ace.
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Post by dalektimecontroller on Mar 15, 2018 9:56:03 GMT
Season 19 has two duds (Four to Doomsday and Time-Flight) but the rest are good. I particularly like The Visitation and Black Orchid (guilty pleasures and I have to be in the right mood for them to work). Earthshock and Kinda are both enjoyable too. Castrovalva was my first Fifth Doctor story, so I'm quite partial to it.
Season 20 has a few enjoyable stories (Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment and The Five Doctors) but the rest are mostly forgettable.
Season 21 only really has one good story - The Caves of Androzani. I've never cared much for any of the others except for maybe Resurrection of the Daleks.
Season 19 wins out for me.
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Post by omega on Mar 15, 2018 10:00:58 GMT
Season 19 has two duds (Four to Doomsday and Time-Flight) but the rest are good. I particularly like The Visitation and Black Orchid (guilty pleasures and I have to be in the right mood for them to work). Earthshock and Kinda are both enjoyable too. Castrovalva was my first Fifth Doctor story, so I'm quite partial to it. In Black Orchid, when the Doctor is wandering around secret passages and finds himself outside he asks himself why he ends up in these situations. The DVD production note subtitles respond by saying that there wouldn't be a story otherwise. Frontios has a lot of good things. It gives Turlough some background without that aspect taking up too much of the story and the first cliffhanger is a big one. The last episode also gives us a gap to slot Fifth Doctor and Tegan stories in, like the brilliant Time in Office. |
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Post by mark687 on Mar 15, 2018 10:31:51 GMT
Purely for consistency (with the notable exception of Kinda) Season 19
Regards
mark687
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Post by relativetime on Mar 15, 2018 23:11:34 GMT
I'm going to join the chorus for Season 19, though my favorite Fifth Doctor story on television is, predictably, The Caves of Androzani.
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Post by glutamodo on Mar 16, 2018 0:50:13 GMT
Now my favorite Davison story was Mawdryn Undead, not so much because the Brig was in it, but I liked the dual time zone stuff, that sort of thing was seldom done in the show. That kind of splits me as to choosing season 19 or 20.
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Post by number13 on Mar 16, 2018 1:35:48 GMT
Very difficult choice, surprisingly given there are only three seasons, but each of them contains at least two standout stories and at least one (imo) lemon.
But overall it was another fine era which I enjoyed at the time and still do now.
I went for Season 20 in the end, because the Black Guardian trilogy (even with Terminus) is excellent and The Five Doctors is priceless and has huge nostalgia value as the first story I ever home taped and so could watch again on demand. Words cannot express how big a deal that was in 1983! And it has the last proper appearance of my (Third) Doctor.
So, 20 it is. And my top 5 of the Fifth are, in broadcast order:
Earthshock, Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment, The Five Doctors, The Caves of Androzani.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 1:51:32 GMT
I'm going to exclude Caves just for the sake of variety. Hmm... I'd honestly say either Enlightenment or Frontios.
Enlightenment feels like delayed gratification for the end of Key to Time. I really wish we'd gotten more stories from Barbara Clegg on the show, there's an imagination and deftness to the story which makes it feel almost like a throwback to the Troughton era stories of The Mind Robber or The War Games. It's a nicely original idea as well, the concept of a yacht race through Earth's solar system organised by creatures that require "mortal" minds to sustain their existence. The interplay between Tegan and Marriner, in particular, ends up being rather hypnotic. It's not played as a romance or even an obsession, but instead a sort of fascination. Tegan being scrutinised like a songbird in a cage. Turlough is also used rather well here, probably at his best until Frontios in the next season. I particularly like how the ending -- the skirmish between light and dark -- can only be decided by the character who embodies both.
Beautifully executed by the production team as well. Particularly the lighting crew, it forgoes BBC floodlights for something altogether much more atmospheric. They'd do equally amazing things for Varos when the time came as well. I cannot recommend it enough.
While not quite as seamless, Frontios definitely appeals to my sense of worldbuilding. "Frontios buries its own dead," is a chillingly evocative line. Placing the world outside of the Time Lords's sphere of influence really highlights the sense of decay and isolation as these people struggle against what seems like an almost inevitable end. Obliterating the TARDIS does one better. It's another one of those stories where they just manage to get away with it, despite the budget. You can see the Fifth Doctor from Androzani begin to form here as well. He's on the ground, in the dark, saving lives and restoring the light (quite literally at the beginning). The Tractators still manage to cut a somewhat imposing figure despite the limitations of the costumes and their powers of gravity make for a really interesting quirk (the novelisation has a rather more gruesome interpretation of their mining machine).
Really enjoyable with a lot of great ideas, very well executed.
1. Enlightenment
2. Frontios
3. Snakedance
4. Kinda
5. The Visitation
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 10:30:22 GMT
I had to go for Season 21... Silurians/Sea Devils, Daleks and The Caves of Androzani.
(Season 21 also gets bonus points for the departure of Tegan Jovanka and the introduction of the lovely Peri.)
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Post by bohnny on Mar 16, 2018 11:06:08 GMT
It certainly is tough - as each season has a mix of great, good, OK and stinkers. But I think I'm ending up with season 21 ( but it's not a choice I'm really comfortable with TBH). If sort of comes down to how you assess it I think - do you offset good stories against stinkers, or just consider the quality of the top stories and ignore the dross. And what about the stories that are good or just OK?
I ruled out season 19 as if has the highest number of stinkers (four to doomsday and time flight) and the weakest of the two parters (the story itself is ok, as the novelisation shows, but too much was cut from the televised version for it to work, IMO). So, despite also having two great stories (Earthshock and Kinda) and two good stories ( castrovalva and the visitation) the balance is only just in the positive.
Season 20 was the hardest for me -as if is really all over the map - one stinker (arc), one great (snakedance), one very good (enlightenment), one good (mawdryn), one super fun but no classic on conventional measures (5 Drs), two ok that could have been better (demons, terminus). How to score all of that?
But in the end season 21 pips those two at the post: the stinker is the strongest of the 'stinkers' and had potential - the flaws are with design and execution rather than concept, the best of the season is 'the best'. And the rest are good to very good.
But ask me again tomorrow ....
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Post by Hieronymus on Mar 24, 2018 21:39:40 GMT
I can't vote for one as best nor rank one as worst. Each has its high points, and each has its abysmal depths.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Mar 25, 2018 18:32:29 GMT
I'm having a Pixies moment. My fave Pixies album is Doolittle, but my fave Pixies song, Gigantic, isn't on that album. My fave season is 20, but...shock!...my fave 5th Doctor story is Black Orchid, and it's in 19. So there you go.
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Post by constonks on Mar 27, 2018 15:57:45 GMT
So while I like more stories in the other two seasons, Season 19 gets my vote for its arc dealing with the aftermath of Logopolis - Getting Tegan to Heathrow, Adric dealing with the new Doctor and his place in the TARDIS, Nyssa finding her place as well, the Master being in the premiere and the... (sigh) finale. So as a complete season - 19.
Top Ten? Mawdryn, Castrovalva, Five Docs, Snakedance, Kinda, Caves, Planet of Fire, Enlightenment, Black Orchid, Frontios.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Mar 27, 2018 17:44:37 GMT
Now my favorite Davison story was Mawdryn Undead, not so much because the Brig was in it, but I liked the dual time zone stuff, that sort of thing was seldom done in the show. That kind of splits me as to choosing season 19 or 20. Shame they messed up the UNIT timeline. |
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Post by constonks on Mar 27, 2018 17:55:42 GMT
Now my favorite Davison story was Mawdryn Undead, not so much because the Brig was in it, but I liked the dual time zone stuff, that sort of thing was seldom done in the show. That kind of splits me as to choosing season 19 or 20. Shame they messed up the UNIT timeline. Bound to happen, though. Other than novelisations (or perhaps access to the scripts?) there was no way to get those original stories. It's no wonder people forgot something that requires knowledge of specific lines in The Abominable Snowmen, Web of Fear and The Invasion (all fully or partially lost) and then assumed that the UNIT stories took place roughly when they aired. The only way it really could have been avoided would be having the Brig say "five years ago" for the whole story instead of 1978/1983, but I expect Grimwade didn't know he was creating such a controversy at the time. |
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Post by thethirddoctor on Mar 27, 2018 18:10:53 GMT
Shame they messed up the UNIT timeline. Bound to happen, though. Other than novelisations (or perhaps access to the scripts?) there was no way to get those original stories. It's no wonder people forgot something that requires knowledge of specific lines in The Abominable Snowmen, Web of Fear and The Invasion (all fully or partially lost) and then assumed that the UNIT stories took place roughly when they aired. The only way it really could have been avoided would be having the Brig say "five years ago" for the whole story instead of 1978/1983, but I expect Grimwade didn't know he was creating such a controversy at the time. Well, SJS was from 1980. |
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Post by constonks on Mar 27, 2018 18:49:14 GMT
Bound to happen, though. Other than novelisations (or perhaps access to the scripts?) there was no way to get those original stories. It's no wonder people forgot something that requires knowledge of specific lines in The Abominable Snowmen, Web of Fear and The Invasion (all fully or partially lost) and then assumed that the UNIT stories took place roughly when they aired. The only way it really could have been avoided would be having the Brig say "five years ago" for the whole story instead of 1978/1983, but I expect Grimwade didn't know he was creating such a controversy at the time. Well, SJS was from 1980. Yeah, that's true - Pyramids was the most recent example pre-Mawdryn (and the only one to explicitly say a date) and that one is more glaring as (I've just learned) Peter Grimwade was a PA on that story! But still totally possible that he simply forgot/misremembered. [And then I go away and do some research and come back realising I've been totally wrong this whole time]From Shannon Sullivan's A Brief History of Time (Travel): "Although it was not a natural fit for the character, Grimwade inserted the Brigadier into his storyline, the idea being that he was now retired from UNIT and teaching maths. Levine pointed out that setting part of the story in 1977 would now break with the continuity of Lethbridge-Stewart's original serials, which had been set a few years ahead of their broadcast dates. It would be inconsistent to depict the Brigadier as being retired in 1977 when stories such as Pyramids Of Mars indicated that he was still active with UNIT into the Eighties. Nathan-Turner liked the hook of the Silver Jubilee setting, however, and did not act on Levine's advice... in the process birthing what is perhaps the most notorious contradiction in the Doctor Who chronology." Huh. |
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Post by thethirddoctor on Mar 27, 2018 19:12:52 GMT
Yeah, that's true - Pyramids was the most recent example pre-Mawdryn (and the only one to explicitly say a date) and that one is more glaring as (I've just learned) Peter Grimwade was a PA on that story! But still totally possible that he simply forgot/misremembered. [And then I go away and do some research and come back realising I've been totally wrong this whole time]From Shannon Sullivan's A Brief History of Time (Travel): "Although it was not a natural fit for the character, Grimwade inserted the Brigadier into his storyline, the idea being that he was now retired from UNIT and teaching maths. Levine pointed out that setting part of the story in 1977 would now break with the continuity of Lethbridge-Stewart's original serials, which had been set a few years ahead of their broadcast dates. It would be inconsistent to depict the Brigadier as being retired in 1977 when stories such as Pyramids Of Mars indicated that he was still active with UNIT into the Eighties. Nathan-Turner liked the hook of the Silver Jubilee setting, however, and did not act on Levine's advice... in the process birthing what is perhaps the most notorious contradiction in the Doctor Who chronology." Huh.It was originally going to be Ian Chesterton. That would have been something to watch. |
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Post by constonks on Mar 27, 2018 19:16:49 GMT
Yeah, that's true - Pyramids was the most recent example pre-Mawdryn (and the only one to explicitly say a date) and that one is more glaring as (I've just learned) Peter Grimwade was a PA on that story! But still totally possible that he simply forgot/misremembered. [And then I go away and do some research and come back realising I've been totally wrong this whole time]From Shannon Sullivan's A Brief History of Time (Travel): "Although it was not a natural fit for the character, Grimwade inserted the Brigadier into his storyline, the idea being that he was now retired from UNIT and teaching maths. Levine pointed out that setting part of the story in 1977 would now break with the continuity of Lethbridge-Stewart's original serials, which had been set a few years ahead of their broadcast dates. It would be inconsistent to depict the Brigadier as being retired in 1977 when stories such as Pyramids Of Mars indicated that he was still active with UNIT into the Eighties. Nathan-Turner liked the hook of the Silver Jubilee setting, however, and did not act on Levine's advice... in the process birthing what is perhaps the most notorious contradiction in the Doctor Who chronology." Huh.It was originally going to be Ian Chesterton. That would have been something to watch. Although I wonder if they would have had him married to Barbara or not. Probably not, given JNT's usual attitude towards romance/sex/the concept of grandchildren on the show... Also, I'd be surprised if she hadn't mentioned the Doctor once in six years... So for their fictional sakes (and the sake of Ace's music collection) it's better it wasn't Ian. |
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