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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 18:48:01 GMT
It seems funny that 15 years of so ago i would have been genuinely interested in this, having been aware of the what might have been nature of the unmade film (sadly without Sarah & Harry a full cast audio seems out).
From a current perspective of things, i see it not so much as case of tapping into a creative well that has yet to run dry, but the deep pockets of older fans by the executors of the writers estate. The Virgin Missing Adventures and BBC Past Doctor Adventures showed that good literature could be produced by fresh writers with original ideas.
I have no doubt James Goss will make a good read of it, but wonder how many purchases are destined to be unread but attractive hardback shelf adornments with Douglas Adams name adding prestige? As per last weeks announcement of a Vinyl Energy of the Daleks, i increasingly feel put off that BBC marketing seems to be seeking to produce high cost additions to collections rather than totally new products made for mass (paperback) consumption, as drove the novels range from Virgin New Adventures on-wards. The revived Target Range seems to have created a genuine buzz as they are being bought and quickly read with a lot of satisfaction.
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Post by constonks on May 10, 2018 22:04:42 GMT
I have no doubt James Goss will make a good read of it, but wonder how many purchases are destined to be unread but attractive hardback shelf adornments with Douglas Adams name adding prestige? Not this one, certainly. Adams had nothing to do with it. The script was written by Tom Baker, Ian Marter and James Hill. I do agree on wanting some original stories - the novels used to be the main wellspring of creativity for the expanded universe...
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Post by J.A. Prentice on May 10, 2018 22:30:42 GMT
I loved Goss's Adams adaptations and I've always wanted a proper Scratchman adaptation, so I'll definitely be ordering this.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2018 22:31:05 GMT
I have no doubt James Goss will make a good read of it, but wonder how many purchases are destined to be unread but attractive hardback shelf adornments with Douglas Adams name adding prestige? Not this one, certainly. Adams had nothing to do with it. The script was written by Tom Baker, Ian Marter and James Hill. I do agree on wanting some original stories - the novels used to be the main wellspring of creativity for the expanded universe... Thanks for the correction - speed reading the thread got his name tied up in my head - should have remembered/done some research to refresh my memory. Would have been a winner by Ian Marter as a Target Missing Adventure back in the day though?
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Post by iainmclaughlin on May 10, 2018 23:45:30 GMT
I have no doubt James Goss will make a good read of it, but wonder how many purchases are destined to be unread but attractive hardback shelf adornments with Douglas Adams name adding prestige? Not this one, certainly. Adams had nothing to do with it. The script was written by Tom Baker, Ian Marter and James Hill. I do agree on wanting some original stories - the novels used to be the main wellspring of creativity for the expanded universe... I love Big Finish and what they do. I listen to a couple of hours of Big Finish every day while I work - even when I'm actually doing work for them - but I have to say I really miss getting a couple of new novels every month. I'm greedy. I want the novels and the audios.
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Post by constonks on May 11, 2018 0:35:24 GMT
Not this one, certainly. Adams had nothing to do with it. The script was written by Tom Baker, Ian Marter and James Hill. I do agree on wanting some original stories - the novels used to be the main wellspring of creativity for the expanded universe... I love Big Finish and what they do. I listen to a couple of hours of Big Finish every day while I work - even when I'm actually doing work for them - but I have to say I really miss getting a couple of new novels every month. I'm greedy. I want the novels and the audios. More than anything, I miss novels that were their own thing, rather than just being three bonus standalone stories with the current TARDIS team. Not to say I haven't enjoyed the handful of New Series Adventures I've read, but I always like a good arc and would love an original novel companion. (Although the lull in publication does give us relative newbies time to catch up on all the Virgin and BBC books of the past!)
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 1:25:33 GMT
I love Big Finish and what they do. I listen to a couple of hours of Big Finish every day while I work - even when I'm actually doing work for them - but I have to say I really miss getting a couple of new novels every month. I'm greedy. I want the novels and the audios. More than anything, I miss novels that were their own thing, rather than just being three bonus standalone stories with the current TARDIS team. Not to say I haven't enjoyed the handful of New Series Adventures I've read, but I always like a good arc and would love an original novel companion. (Although the lull in publication does give us relative newbies time to catch up on all the Virgin and BBC books of the past!) I think the day of regular novels are well-past, though since the revival started. With a wider audience coming in since the revival, there was a wider preference for stories featuring the original actors over print and a conception that the novels were subsidary and the novels weren't exactly doing well towards the end, despite the legacy of The New/Missing Adventures and Eighth/Past Doctor Adventures, as well as the BBC wanted their audience to focus on the shiny new revival series. Winding down the divergent contiunties was a good move, regardless of intent. And honestly, I kind of prefer having a 'straight' narrative for Eight, regardless. Having multiple diverging contiunties is something that could only happen during The Wilderness Years and wasn't good for Who generally, despite a dedicated audience. Count me in as someone who was disappointed that Titan's Eighth Doctor series didn't do well enough to run for series.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 2:59:09 GMT
More than anything, I miss novels that were their own thing, rather than just being three bonus standalone stories with the current TARDIS team. Not to say I haven't enjoyed the handful of New Series Adventures I've read, but I always like a good arc and would love an original novel companion. (Although the lull in publication does give us relative newbies time to catch up on all the Virgin and BBC books of the past!) I think the day of regular novels are well-past, though since the revival started. With a wider audience coming in since the revival, there was a wider preference for stories featuring the original actors over print and a conception that the novels were subsidary and the novels weren't exactly doing well towards the end, despite the legacy of The New/Missing Adventures and Eighth/Past Doctor Adventures, as well as the BBC wanted their audience to focus on the shiny new revival series. Winding down the divergent contiunties was a good move, regardless of intent. And honestly, I kind of prefer having a 'straight' narrative for Eight, regardless. Having multiple diverging contiunties is something that could only happen during The Wilderness Years and wasn't good for Who generally, despite a dedicated audience. Count me in as someone who was disappointed that Titan's Eighth Doctor series didn't do well enough to run for series. Big Finish have kind of unwittingly cornered the market on Past Doctor stories, that for anyone coming in or don't know about stories spun in other mediums, stories in other mediums kind of seem subsidary. I'm not sure if an Eighth Doctor Time War novel would quite be seen as a big deal now, for instance.
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Post by constonks on May 11, 2018 4:49:56 GMT
I think the day of regular novels are well-past, though since the revival started. With a wider audience coming in since the revival, there was a wider preference for stories featuring the original actors over print and a conception that the novels were subsidary and the novels weren't exactly doing well towards the end, despite the legacy of The New/Missing Adventures and Eighth/Past Doctor Adventures, as well as the BBC wanted their audience to focus on the shiny new revival series. Winding down the divergent contiunties was a good move, regardless of intent. And honestly, I kind of prefer having a 'straight' narrative for Eight, regardless. Having multiple diverging contiunties is something that could only happen during The Wilderness Years and wasn't good for Who generally, despite a dedicated audience. Count me in as someone who was disappointed that Titan's Eighth Doctor series didn't do well enough to run for series. Big Finish have kind of unwittingly cornered the market on Past Doctor stories, that for anyone coming in or don't know about stories spun in other mediums, stories in other mediums kind of seem subsidary. I'm not sure if an Eighth Doctor Time War novel would quite be seen as a big deal now, for instance. That's very true - but the big gap for me is for those characters that BF can't use regularly - Sarah, Harry, Dodo, the Delgado Master, the Brigadier, Liz... But I also don't think an alternate line would be impossible to follow - let's imagine that Peter Capaldi's novels had starred a new companion and took place between Kill the Moon and Mummy. Heck, put the placement on the back of the book like the good old days. (Bit of wishful thinking, really, though - as of now, the books do in fact serve the show, rather than building their own thing.)
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 6:38:00 GMT
Big Finish have kind of unwittingly cornered the market on Past Doctor stories, that for anyone coming in or don't know about stories spun in other mediums, stories in other mediums kind of seem subsidary. I'm not sure if an Eighth Doctor Time War novel would quite be seen as a big deal now, for instance. That's very true - but the big gap for me is for those characters that BF can't use regularly - Sarah, Harry, Dodo, the Delgado Master, the Brigadier, Liz... But I also don't think an alternate line would be impossible to follow - let's imagine that Peter Capaldi's novels had starred a new companion and took place between Kill the Moon and Mummy. Heck, put the placement on the back of the book like the good old days. (Bit of wishful thinking, really, though - as of now, the books do in fact serve the show, rather than building their own thing.) We might get something like in the future, given the BBC seem keen on reviogating Who's non-TV series material. I think Ten or Eleven are stronger candiates for a set of novels after trial releases, though and then go for some kisses to the past. (Maybe have the Second and Eleven Doctors team up?)
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Post by Timelord007 on May 11, 2018 6:48:40 GMT
A few more Lizzie Windsors to spend.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 8:24:40 GMT
That's very true - but the big gap for me is for those characters that BF can't use regularly - Sarah, Harry, Dodo, the Delgado Master, the Brigadier, Liz... But I also don't think an alternate line would be impossible to follow - let's imagine that Peter Capaldi's novels had starred a new companion and took place between Kill the Moon and Mummy. Heck, put the placement on the back of the book like the good old days. (Bit of wishful thinking, really, though - as of now, the books do in fact serve the show, rather than building their own thing.) We might get something like in the future, given the BBC seem keen on reviogating Who's non-TV series material. I think Ten or Eleven are stronger candiates for a set of novels after trial releases, though and then go for some kisses to the past. (Maybe have the Second and Eleven Doctors team up?) Here's hoping they commission new material as opposed to repackaging reprints in a larger format paperback as they did with the 50th anniversary 12 doctors and later monsters collections. I picked up the complete first set at 'the works' (discount/clearance bookstore for those overseas readers) on one of their 2 for a pound deals or something silly like that - great for me but not exactly an endorsement for producing any more. Any analysis would tell them that, but things have gone quiet with those ranges and new-new novels haven't followed on from them.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 9:59:21 GMT
We might get something like in the future, given the BBC seem keen on reviogating Who's non-TV series material. I think Ten or Eleven are stronger candiates for a set of novels after trial releases, though and then go for some kisses to the past. (Maybe have the Second and Eleven Doctors team up?) Here's hoping they commission new material as opposed to repackaging reprints in a larger format paperback as they did with the 50th anniversary 12 doctors and later monsters collections. I picked up the complete first set at 'the works' (discount/clearance bookstore for those overseas readers) on one of their 2 for a pound deals or something silly like that - great for me but not exactly an endorsement for producing any more. Any analysis would tell them that, but things have gone quiet with those ranges and new-new novels haven't followed on from them. In DWM, it was stated that the Anniversary reprints were to see if there was intrest in reprinting older material and releasing these stories to a wider audience and the releases were popular enough to do further reprints and generate audiobook versions. How long was it since publication when you picked them up? (I'm guessing your from the UK?) In promoting the Corpse Marker audiobook, there was even discussion of the possibility of the novel readings replacing the novelisations readings once they were done, but given that only Corpse Marker, The Roundheads, Last of the Gaderene, Human Nature, The Witch Hunters, The Shadow in the Glass, Amorality Tale, Illegal Alien and The Scales of Injustice were covered, it seems sales weren't as high as expected. The Dorsten's Curse was released in 2015 and In The Blood in 2016, both by high profile writers, alongside the Douglas Adams adapations, as well as original Short Story collections ( Twelve Doctors of Christmas (2016), Tales of Terror (2017)), featuring The Doctor in all his incarnations bar The War Doctor, so the reprints and the Penguin Anniversary original short stories, must have shown there was a bit of a market in doing original stories with original and past revival Doctors.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 20:08:03 GMT
Here's hoping they commission new material as opposed to repackaging reprints in a larger format paperback as they did with the 50th anniversary 12 doctors and later monsters collections. I picked up the complete first set at 'the works' (discount/clearance bookstore for those overseas readers) on one of their 2 for a pound deals or something silly like that - great for me but not exactly an endorsement for producing any more. Any analysis would tell them that, but things have gone quiet with those ranges and new-new novels haven't followed on from them. In DWM, it was stated that the Anniversary reprints were to see if there was intrest in reprinting older material and releasing these stories to a wider audience and the releases were popular enough to do further reprints and generate audiobook versions. How long was it since publication when you picked them up? (I'm guessing your from the UK?) In promoting the Corpse Marker audiobook, there was even discussion of the possibility of the novel readings replacing the novelisations readings once they were done, but given that only Corpse Marker, The Roundheads, Last of the Gaderene, Human Nature, The Witch Hunters, The Shadow in the Glass, Amorality Tale, Illegal Alien and The Scales of Injustice were covered, it seems sales weren't as high as expected. The Dorsten's Curse was released in 2015 and In The Blood in 2016, both by high profile writers, alongside the Douglas Adams adapations, as well as original Short Story collections ( Twelve Doctors of Christmas (2016), Tales of Terror (2017)), featuring The Doctor in all his incarnations bar The War Doctor, so the reprints and the Penguin Anniversary original short stories, must have shown there was a bit of a market in doing original stories with original and past revival Doctors. Quite a thorough background on these, thanks. I don't dispute that the BBC have kept releases coming, and well received they are too - perhaps working on a less is more logic. I do however find it a shame that the 50th anniversary set found their way into an overstocks retailer after 12 months as when i purchased them, suggesting a tailing off of sales or maybe over estimated production numbers. As i suggested, its a short term gain financially as it suggests more caution in future (i.e now) - although it was successful enough for a follow on range of monster oriented releases after all. The crux of the matter is less of a complaint, but more a lament that the market is not quite strong enough for the volume of choice we had in the wilderness years in terms of original classic era MA, PDA and NA who novels aimed at a late/post teenage fan. Some pruning of ranges is wise i think, as there were a few a short while back with very different targeted demographics. I suppose i would just like to see more of the likes of Dorsten's Curse, Wheel of Ice, Harvest of Time, and indeed The Silent Stars Go by (reprinted in PP as part of the aforementioned set), as forming a more regular and varied range of paperbacks aimed at a potentially older readership than the successful new series range (older teens?). The addition of City of Death, Pirate Planet, Shada, Krikkit Men and now Scratchman, are long overdue and welcome, but finite as a source for a more frequent, say bi monthly, range. Apologies for the long reply - i do not wish any of this to appear a complaint or criticism, but merely a sounding to the viability of opening out the range, lower cost and more frequent. Economies of scale perhaps obviates any case for, inevitably, as a loss making range kills itself off.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 21:52:54 GMT
In DWM, it was stated that the Anniversary reprints were to see if there was intrest in reprinting older material and releasing these stories to a wider audience and the releases were popular enough to do further reprints and generate audiobook versions. How long was it since publication when you picked them up? (I'm guessing your from the UK?) In promoting the Corpse Marker audiobook, there was even discussion of the possibility of the novel readings replacing the novelisations readings once they were done, but given that only Corpse Marker, The Roundheads, Last of the Gaderene, Human Nature, The Witch Hunters, The Shadow in the Glass, Amorality Tale, Illegal Alien and The Scales of Injustice were covered, it seems sales weren't as high as expected. The Dorsten's Curse was released in 2015 and In The Blood in 2016, both by high profile writers, alongside the Douglas Adams adapations, as well as original Short Story collections ( Twelve Doctors of Christmas (2016), Tales of Terror (2017)), featuring The Doctor in all his incarnations bar The War Doctor, so the reprints and the Penguin Anniversary original short stories, must have shown there was a bit of a market in doing original stories with original and past revival Doctors. Quite a thorough background on these, thanks. I don't dispute that the BBC have kept releases coming, and well received they are too - perhaps working on a less is more logic. I do however find it a shame that the 50th anniversary set found their way into an overstocks retailer after 12 months as when i purchased them, suggesting a tailing off of sales or maybe over estimated production numbers. As i suggested, its a short term gain financially as it suggests more caution in future (i.e now) - although it was successful enough for a follow on range of monster oriented releases after all. The crux of the matter is less of a complaint, but more a lament that the market is not quite strong enough for the volume of choice we had in the wilderness years in terms of original classic era MA, PDA and NA who novels aimed at a late/post teenage fan. Some pruning of ranges is wise i think, as there were a few a short while back with very different targeted demographics. I suppose i would just like to see more of the likes of Dorsten's Curse, Wheel of Ice, Harvest of Time, and indeed The Silent Stars Go by (reprinted in PP as part of the aforementioned set), as forming a more regular and varied range of paperbacks aimed at a potentially older readership than the successful new series range (older teens?). The addition of City of Death, Pirate Planet, Shada, Krikkit Men and now Scratchman, are long overdue and welcome, but finite as a source for a more frequent, say bi monthly, range. Apologies for the long reply - i do not wish any of this to appear a complaint or criticism, but merely a sounding to the viability of opening out the range, lower cost and more frequent. Economies of scale perhaps obviates any case for, inevitably, as a loss making range kills itself off. Keep in mind it was the anniversary year, so there was higher level of stock then usual. While I don't deny that it wasn't a consideration to gauge the market to do more regular material with Past Doctors with less high profile authors, it wasn't the primary consideration. The books themselves are for the family audience since 2005, which doesn't negate heavy themes. With the return to more optimistic 'trip of a life time'/rollercoaster ride into unknown with the Thirteenth Doctor, it's possible we might see some new material for the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 23:04:06 GMT
Quite a thorough background on these, thanks. I don't dispute that the BBC have kept releases coming, and well received they are too - perhaps working on a less is more logic. I do however find it a shame that the 50th anniversary set found their way into an overstocks retailer after 12 months as when i purchased them, suggesting a tailing off of sales or maybe over estimated production numbers. As i suggested, its a short term gain financially as it suggests more caution in future (i.e now) - although it was successful enough for a follow on range of monster oriented releases after all. The crux of the matter is less of a complaint, but more a lament that the market is not quite strong enough for the volume of choice we had in the wilderness years in terms of original classic era MA, PDA and NA who novels aimed at a late/post teenage fan. Some pruning of ranges is wise i think, as there were a few a short while back with very different targeted demographics. I suppose i would just like to see more of the likes of Dorsten's Curse, Wheel of Ice, Harvest of Time, and indeed The Silent Stars Go by (reprinted in PP as part of the aforementioned set), as forming a more regular and varied range of paperbacks aimed at a potentially older readership than the successful new series range (older teens?). The addition of City of Death, Pirate Planet, Shada, Krikkit Men and now Scratchman, are long overdue and welcome, but finite as a source for a more frequent, say bi monthly, range. Apologies for the long reply - i do not wish any of this to appear a complaint or criticism, but merely a sounding to the viability of opening out the range, lower cost and more frequent. Economies of scale perhaps obviates any case for, inevitably, as a loss making range kills itself off. Keep in mind it was the anniversary year, so there was higher level of stock then usual. While I don't deny that it wasn't a consideration to gauge the market to do more regular material with Past Doctors with less high profile authors, it wasn't the primary consideration. The books themselves are for the family audience since 2005, which doesn't negate heavy themes. With the return to more optimistic 'trip of a life time'/rollercoaster ride into unknown with the Thirteenth Doctor, it's possible we might see some new material for the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors. Thanks for the additional thoughts and insight - it does put it into a broader perspective. I have no issue as to which Doctor it need be - the nature of the series suggests we should not be tied to such matters, as it is the quality and scope of the story range that matters ultimately.
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melkur
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Post by melkur on May 11, 2018 23:51:35 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to it, buuuuuut for me I think this might be a library read...
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 12, 2018 19:16:52 GMT
Why are they crediting it to Tom Baker and James Goss? I thought Ian Marter wrote the bulk of it, and that James Hill (?) had had input as well? (Mind you, 'City of Death' used to be part-credited to Graham Williams, and he seems to be left by the wayside nowadays with all credit to Douglas Adams and David Fisher).
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Post by iainmclaughlin on May 12, 2018 19:49:42 GMT
Why are they crediting it to Tom Baker and James Goss? I thought Ian Marter wrote the bulk of it, and that James Hill (?) had had input as well? (Mind you, 'City of Death' used to be part-credited to Graham Williams, and he seems to be left by the wayside nowadays with all credit to Douglas Adams and David Fisher). Marketing, I'd guess, plain as that. I assume they decided Tom Baker is a name more likely to sell a book than Ian Marter or James Hill, so he goes on the cover. I'd be extraordinarily surprised if the other two aren't heavily credited inside the book. I guess it's just that Tom Baker is a name they can market.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 18:09:45 GMT
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