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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 18, 2018 0:03:11 GMT
For those not in the know, look up 'Twilight Zone The Movie'.
Part of me wants to very much like Landis: I enjoy several of his films, he has a great passion for horror and has cultivated the persona of an amiable, movie-loving, name-dropping goofball. However, his attitude towards 'the incident' has never sat well with me, and I don't known if I, if ever given a chance, would be comfortable speaking to him, much less be in his general vicinity.
How would anyone else react in this situation?
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 18, 2018 3:15:05 GMT
I've met him. He is a pretty jovial dude. Very engaged and smart. Bringing up something like, "Hey love American Werewolf and Animal House but murdering Vic Morrow and those kids was really uncool." didn't really factor into the conversation. Nor do I think it should.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 23, 2021 10:09:35 GMT
I felt like bringing this one back up, not only post so much controversies (Barrowman, Clarke as well as renewal on Woody Allen and Victor Salva among others. Also, Max) but also with the news of Alec Baldwin accidentally shooting a DP this last week with a prop gun (don't know, here: uk.yahoo.com/news/alec-baldwin-given-loaded-prop-010100078.html). It seems like there has been a shifting in attitudes vis-a-vi 'making something I like doesn't excuse or invalidate your bad actions', which is good, but I find a sense of dissonance, given for how long it seemed like what Landis did was just brushed aside, and he kept being invited to podcasts and festivals by people who, surely, were so geeky that they had to have had some knowledge of this. Certainly, in the post internet world at least: news articles, books and more talked about this, this wasn't some Wizard of Oz urban legend. And given what we later saw with Max, yeah, dad's career may have tanked but his name carried weight for years after. I think there's stuff to unpack, not just with culpability of production but with fandom's part too. |
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 23, 2021 10:22:28 GMT
Do we know the full details of what happened on set that led to the sad death of Halyna Hutchins. What bad actions are we discussing? Behaviour from Clarke & Barrowman is not the same as Woody Allen nor is it the same as John Landis. Are we putting Alec Baldwin in the same category? I am trying to understand what point you are making with regards to the Alec Baldwin incident.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 23, 2021 10:29:54 GMT
Do we know the full details of what happened on set that led to the sad death of Halyna Hutchins. What bad actions are we discussing? Behaviour from Clarke & Barrowman is not the same as Woody Allen nor is it the same as John Landis. Are we putting Alec Baldwin in the same category? I am trying to understand what point you are making with regards to the Alec Baldwin incident. The point being made is all were examples of power being grossly misused on the vulnerable and then covered up or trivialized by both industry and more hardcore members of the respective creator's audiences.
(And as you brought up Baldwin, well look at the timing:
and
)
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 23, 2021 10:44:32 GMT
Do we know the full details of what happened on set that led to the sad death of Halyna Hutchins. What bad actions are we discussing? Behaviour from Clarke & Barrowman is not the same as Woody Allen nor is it the same as John Landis. Are we putting Alec Baldwin in the same category? I am trying to understand what point you are making with regards to the Alec Baldwin incident. The point being made is all were examples of power being grossly misused on the vulnerable and then covered up or trivialized by both industry and more hardcore members of the respective creator's audiences.
(And as you brought up Baldwin, well look at the timing:
and
)
Yes I have read this & the "cold gun" report but as yet not seen anything yet to say Alec Baldwin had responsibility for this, although he is a producer on the film. It was you that mentioned Baldwin in reviving this thread. Although I take your valid point about the misuse of power I would rather wait for some clarity on this before adding Baldwin to this group of individuals. |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 23, 2021 13:59:14 GMT
Yes I have read this & the "cold gun" report but as yet not seen anything yet to say Alec Baldwin had responsibility for this, although he is a producer on the film. It was you that mentioned Baldwin in reviving this thread. Although I take your valid point about the misuse of power I would rather wait for some clarity on this before adding Baldwin to this group of individuals. Well yes, I did mention him - I was just putting up these reports for additional context.
Thing is, Baldwin does have a great deal of responsibility in this situation, as more news has emerged about the use of non-union prop masters, constant penny pinching and using a faulty weapon that was pointed out multiple times as being faulty. www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set As both a lead actor and producer (clearly, this project was in some capacity his baby), Baldwin here has a duty of care, as well as playing a key role in saying yes or no to who is hired, what is spent and what can and can't be used. That is literally the producer's job, and if he didn't catch that, that's a sign of badly set up communication which, again, falls on his shoulders for not setting the standard. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2021 15:05:08 GMT
To go back to the title, I thought this was pretty creepy, when John Landis did a Trailers From Hell commentary on Tora, Tora, Tora and points out an aerial stunt gone wrong and a stuntman running for his life. 3.37 in. Perhaps not the best thing for Landis to focus on... www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG_CaIUhX6A |
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Post by pawntake on Oct 27, 2021 9:45:26 GMT
I felt like bringing this one back up, not only post so much controversies (Barrowman, Clarke as well as renewal on Woody Allen and Victor Salva among others. Also, Max) but also with the news of Alec Baldwin accidentally shooting a DP this last week with a prop gun (don't know, here: uk.yahoo.com/news/alec-baldwin-given-loaded-prop-010100078.html). It seems like there has been a shifting in attitudes vis-a-vi 'making something I like doesn't excuse or invalidate your bad actions', which is good, but I find a sense of dissonance, given for how long it seemed like what Landis did was just brushed aside. quote from wiklpedia/ Vic Morrow Landis and four other defendants, including the helicopter pilot Dorsey Wingo, were ultimately acquitted of involuntary manslaughter after a nearly nine-month trial. The parents of Le and Chen sued and settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Both of Morrow's daughters also sued and settled for an undisclosed amount. Not on anyone's side here merely observing,but a nine-month trial does not suggest this was brushed aside? |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 27, 2021 12:27:07 GMT
I felt like bringing this one back up, not only post so much controversies (Barrowman, Clarke as well as renewal on Woody Allen and Victor Salva among others. Also, Max) but also with the news of Alec Baldwin accidentally shooting a DP this last week with a prop gun (don't know, here: uk.yahoo.com/news/alec-baldwin-given-loaded-prop-010100078.html). It seems like there has been a shifting in attitudes vis-a-vi 'making something I like doesn't excuse or invalidate your bad actions', which is good, but I find a sense of dissonance, given for how long it seemed like what Landis did was just brushed aside. quote from wiklpedia/ Vic Morrow Landis and four other defendants, including the helicopter pilot Dorsey Wingo, were ultimately acquitted of involuntary manslaughter after a nearly nine-month trial. The parents of Le and Chen sued and settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Both of Morrow's daughters also sued and settled for an undisclosed amount. Not on anyone's side here merely observing,but a nine-month trial does not suggest this was brushed aside? The issue is there was no real follow through from that - Landis was still gainfully employed thereafter, practically no heads rolled on the production side and it seems like fans made the choice, deliberate or not, to memory hole it ever happening. How many festivals, podcasts, documentaries and more has Landis been on? Mention Polanski, everyone immediately brings up 'that', but not with Landis. It's always American Werewolf or Blues Brothers or one of the Eddie Murphys he did. Even a book that did a tell-all about the trial has been out of print for years, and so was Twilight Zone the Movie too until it got a HD release in the late 00s. |
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 27, 2021 12:36:38 GMT
quote from wiklpedia/ Vic Morrow Landis and four other defendants, including the helicopter pilot Dorsey Wingo, were ultimately acquitted of involuntary manslaughter after a nearly nine-month trial. The parents of Le and Chen sued and settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. Both of Morrow's daughters also sued and settled for an undisclosed amount. Not on anyone's side here merely observing,but a nine-month trial does not suggest this was brushed aside? The issue is there was no real follow through from that - Landis was still gainfully employed thereafter, practically no heads rolled on the production side and it seems like fans made the choice, deliberate or not, to memory hole it ever happening. How many festivals, podcasts, documentaries and more has Landis been on? Mention Polanski, everyone immediately brings up 'that', but not with Landis. It's always American Werewolf or Blues Brothers or one of the Eddie Murphys he did. Even a book that did a tell-all about the trial has been out of print for years, and so was Twilight Zone the Movie too until it got a HD release in the late 00s. Once again, how are the two equatable? An accident happening on a film set for which a trial was held with Landis & those involved in making the film eventually acquitted of manslaughter & Polanski who didn't face trial for sexual offences against a minor & became a fugitive from justice? I understand it appears to be very important to you but I fail to see how the two individuals actions are comparable. But in answer to the initial question, yes i would be comfortable meeting John Landis. |
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 27, 2021 13:16:13 GMT
The issue is there was no real follow through from that - Landis was still gainfully employed thereafter, practically no heads rolled on the production side and it seems like fans made the choice, deliberate or not, to memory hole it ever happening. How many festivals, podcasts, documentaries and more has Landis been on? Mention Polanski, everyone immediately brings up 'that', but not with Landis. It's always American Werewolf or Blues Brothers or one of the Eddie Murphys he did. Even a book that did a tell-all about the trial has been out of print for years, and so was Twilight Zone the Movie too until it got a HD release in the late 00s. Once again, how are the two equatable? An accident happening on a film set for which a trial was held with Landis & those involved in making the film eventually acquitted of manslaughter & Polanski who didn't face trial for sexual offences against a minor & became a fugitive from justice? I understand it appears to be very important to you but I fail to see how the two individuals actions are comparable. But in answer to the initial question, yes i would be comfortable meeting John Landis. I'm not equating the crimes themselves (and to be clear, this is not any manner of excuse for Polanski), but more making the point that film culture, fandom, however you want to dub it, rightfully came down on one unrepetant filmmaker but not the other. Citing the verdict doesn't mean much as it's not in dispute that children died on Landis' watch, that they were illegally on the set, and that Landis did not follow procedure. We can umm and ahh on the letter of the verdict, but surely that can't be the only metric for this discussion (and that's all this is, discussion) with this type of subject.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Oct 27, 2021 14:02:58 GMT
Once again, how are the two equatable? An accident happening on a film set for which a trial was held with Landis & those involved in making the film eventually acquitted of manslaughter & Polanski who didn't face trial for sexual offences against a minor & became a fugitive from justice? I understand it appears to be very important to you but I fail to see how the two individuals actions are comparable. But in answer to the initial question, yes i would be comfortable meeting John Landis. I'm not equating the crimes themselves (and to be clear, this is not any manner of excuse for Polanski), but more making the point that film culture, fandom, however you want to dub it, rightfully came down on one unrepetant filmmaker but not the other. Citing the verdict doesn't mean much as it's not in dispute that children died on Landis' watch, that they were illegally on the set, and that Landis did not follow procedure. We can umm and ahh on the letter of the verdict, but surely that can't be the only metric for this discussion (and that's all this is, discussion) with this type of subject.
But by saying this you are comparing the two.It is far more complex than that. I don't see what point you are making tbh using these as examples. In what way is Landis unrepentant? The incident was dealt with in a court of law, the other wasn't. If Landis had absconded to avoid the law I could see a reason behind the comparison. But this was not the case. |
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