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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 19:59:11 GMT
I think 1,000 copies of these LP's clearly isn't enough if people are going to be buying three copies at a time... be it for a 'friend' or to make a profit on eBay. I don't know who sets the figure for these Limited Editions; Big Finish themselves, Demon Records or the 'exclusive' retailer involved, but they are selling out quickly and being re-sold at extorionate prices on eBay. So maybe 1,000 copies is too low? These releases are obviously designed as collectables but I think the people who choose to collect Big Finish Doctor Who on vinyl would still buy these even if there was 2,000 copies or 2,500 copies, as that is still a relatively small amount in the big scheme of things. So it would make sense for these vinyl releases - or the next ones in the series - to have wider availabilty.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 28, 2019 22:37:56 GMT
I think 1,000 copies of these LP's clearly isn't enough if people are going to be buying three copies at a time... be it for a 'friend' or to make a profit on eBay. I don't know who sets the figure for these Limited Editions; Big Finish themselves, Demon Records or the 'exclusive' retailer involved, but they are selling out quickly and being re-sold at extorionate prices on eBay. So maybe 1,000 copies is too low? These releases are obviously designed as collectables but I think the people who choose to collect Big Finish Doctor Who on vinyl would still buy these even if there was 2,000 copies or 2,500 copies, as that is still a relatively small amount in the big scheme of things. So it would make sense for these vinyl releases - or the next ones in the series - to have wider availabilty. Perfect ongoing point .
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Post by shallacatop on May 28, 2019 23:05:32 GMT
I think you need to consider the amount of units in comparison to what the average Big Finish release shifts. We’ve not been told specific figures, but we do have some idea based on what has and hasn’t sold out. The special edition of The Legacy of Time is 4,000 units and hasn’t sold out. The Tenth Doctor Adventures Volume 1 sold out at 5,000 units. None of the 10,000 units have sold out and, given we’ve been told Legacy is their fastest selling pre-order, means there must be thousands left in the warehouse or on standby for production.
I think 2-2,500 units might be too much. The vinyls are a niche of an already existing niche. The 1,000 units are selling purely because they’re so limited. Their scarcity is the appeal. I think upping the numbers and running the risk of not selling out isn’t worth it to the retailers. After all, they’re not concerned about where the product ends up, only that it sells out. It’s not 1-1,500 fans missing out, it’s a relative handful.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 0:37:30 GMT
I think you need to consider the amount of units in comparison to what the average Big Finish release shifts. We’ve not been told specific figures, but we do have some idea based on what has and hasn’t sold out. The special edition of The Legacy of Time is 4,000 units and hasn’t sold out. The Tenth Doctor Adventures Volume 1 sold out at 5,000 units. None of the 10,000 units have sold out and, given we’ve been told Legacy is their fastest selling pre-order, means there must be thousands left in the warehouse or on standby for production. I think 2-2,500 units might be too much. The vinyls are a niche of an already existing niche. The 1,000 units are selling purely because they’re so limited. Their scarcity is the appeal. I think upping the numbers and running the risk of not selling out isn’t worth it to the retailers. After all, they’re not concerned about where the product ends up, only that it sells out. It’s not 1-1,500 fans missing out, it’s a relative handful. It goes back to that idea of good will, though. Fair-mindedness. The upset surrounding regarding their shift in international pricing policy could've easily been taken with a shrug and had them bank on international customers taking the load. Fortunately, Big Finish isn't that kind of a company. They listened to their consumer base and extended their preexisting status quo for a couple months while they sorted out the change. They even issued an apology. Wonderful PR reparation. Wonderful good will. It stopped international customers feeling like second-class citizens and retained that wider demographic. It may even have gotten a number of consumers to reconsider departing altogether after the change. It's a large pillar of what makes Big Finish. They listen to their customers, irrespective of where they come from, and treat them all fairly. It's part of their brand identity. Think about it, spread those 10,000 units over a global market and that handful expands to 327 million potential customers in the States alone. The numbers in the United Kingdom are a sound register for seeing what makes the overseas transition: the Tenth Doctor's something of a silver bullet, I imagine the Fourth Doctor and/or a Dalek story would likewise do the same. Start there, then if the market responds in gross, you expand to other lesser known properties at a lower unit count. The point is you begin with a selection that customers can purchase to open up that market. In addition to everything else, these sorts of deals also help to promote brand awareness. "You're listening to a Big Finish Production," as Nick says at the beginning, so people look into this Big Finish, tell other fans they know, the vinyls get sold, but also the website receives more traffic and other products get purchased. One of the great benefits of Doctor Who having a dedicated, active and international fanbase. We love talking to one another and talk in commerce sells.
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Post by shallacatop on May 29, 2019 8:09:27 GMT
I’m not really sure what it is you’re getting at. I said that 10,000 units didn’t sell and now you’re talking about rolling them across the world? These limited sets of 10,000 have always been able to buy from the Big Finish site.
To be honest, it goes back to what I was saying originally: you need an overseas retailer to take an interest. It’s what has happened in the UK and it’s how these have come into existence.
Making 10,000 and putting them on the Big Finish site isn’t the way to go, or even having them distributed across different retailers. If they can’t shift that many units on their special editions, or even their actual CD / download releases, they’re not going to do it for coloured vinyl. It’s a niche of a niche and the appeal is that it’s so limited. If you make more and they don’t sell, then they won’t do any more.
The stuff about increasing Big Finish’s reputation is wishful thinking. The people who buy these vinyls are those who already own the CDs or downloads. There’s no new custom.
Look, I understand that you would like the opportunity to get some of these, but I think that’s influencing the point you’re making. The post just reads like dragging every bit of marketing technobabble in support of your point, despite it going against everything we know about sales figures. The argument is getting convoluted and I don’t think we will reach an agreement, so I’m going to bow out. I hope Big Finish can liaise with a retailer to offer a number of units overseas without damaging the limited nature too much so it doesn’t put people off purchasing and therefore damaging the reputation of these releases.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 9:08:15 GMT
I’m not really sure what it is you’re getting at. I said that 10,000 units didn’t sell and now you’re talking about rolling them across the world? These limited sets of 10,000 have always been able to buy from the Big Finish site. To be honest, it goes back to what I was saying originally: you need an overseas retailer to take an interest. It’s what has happened in the UK and it’s how these have come into existence. Making 10,000 and putting them on the Big Finish site isn’t the way to go, or even having them distributed across different retailers. If they can’t shift that many units on their special editions, or even their actual CD / download releases, they’re not going to do it for coloured vinyl. It’s a niche of a niche and the appeal is that it’s so limited. If you make more and they don’t sell, then they won’t do any more. The stuff about increasing Big Finish’s reputation is wishful thinking. The people who buy these vinyls are those who already own the CDs or downloads. There’s no new custom. Look, I understand that you would like the opportunity to get some of these, but I think that’s influencing the point you’re making. The post just reads like dragging every bit of marketing technobabble in support of your point, despite it going against everything we know about sales figures. The argument is getting convoluted and I don’t think we will reach an agreement, so I’m going to bow out. I hope Big Finish can liaise with a retailer to offer a number of units overseas without damaging the limited nature too much so it doesn’t put people off purchasing and therefore damaging the reputation of these releases. Well, naturally it's influencing the point, I'm an overseas consumer voicing an expression of interest. It'd be unreasonable to assume otherwise. I respect that UK consumers are quite naturally interested in the UK market. As for denouncing the view as marketing technobabble, that's rather belittling, I feel. Particularly considering that a large part of my employment involves marketing practices. You may not agree with it, but it is a valid school of thought. As for the closing statement here: That sounds an awful lot like argument from a position of privileged luxury. That the reputation of releases would be damaged by expanding to an overseas market is a concerning idea, to say the least. It holds the rest of us below the UK market as a subclass who can't be trusted. We might ruin it. That doesn't send a good message to me. Moreover, it ignores the concept of good will entirely, which was a key facet of that previous post and to BF's previous actions regarding international price changes. Anyway, as you said, it's a moot point. Big Finish are already looking into it as aussiedoctorwhofan noted, so we'll see what comes of it. I hope they do find retailers interested in stocking their product, there's certainly a demand.
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Post by shallacatop on May 29, 2019 9:18:27 GMT
Regarding your comment about “privileged luxury”, not at all. I don’t actually own any of these exclusives. It’s a niche too far for me personally. Now you might wonder why I’m involved in the conversation if I’m not purchasing? I am a collector of vinyl and these are the sorts of discussions I have back and forth with other bands and artists. I find it fascinating, as aussiedoctorwhofan said. I understand that the selling point of these vinyls is that they’re so limited and that you damage that by upping the run or not even making them exclusive. Morrissey is a good example. There are a few different retailers who release his albums on coloured vinyl exclusive to them, including his own store. Some of these are in-store in their respective countries and cause a similar issue to these Doctor Who vinyls we’re discussing. If the retailer coughs up the money to have their own exclusive, then I think that’s fair play. That’s all the Doctor Who vinyls need, a retailer that’s online and offers worldwide shipping. Amazon do exclusives of the 60s soundtracks don’t they? I wonder what they’d think to having a couple of Big Finish’s? They could get away with a larger quantity of units too, I reckon.
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Post by rarewolf on May 29, 2019 9:34:15 GMT
The stuff about increasing Big Finish’s reputation is wishful thinking. The people who buy these vinyls are those who already own the CDs or downloads. There’s no new custom.. Yes, they aren’t there on the shelves long enough to attract new customers. They should persuade each branch to stock 2 CD copies for every vinyl. I’ve got a full collection of CDs, not touched vinyl. Fortunately. But with neither a HMV, Sainsbury’s or Asda in town I’d have been looking at a day off work on the off chance no other collectors lived in Exeter.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 9:36:02 GMT
Regarding your comment about “privileged luxury”, not at all. I don’t actually own any of these exclusives. It’s a niche too far for me personally. Now you might wonder why I’m involved in the conversation if I’m not purchasing? I am a collector of vinyl and these are the sorts of discussions I have back and forth with other bands and artists. I find it fascinating, as aussiedoctorwhofan said. Morrissey is a good example. There are a few different retailers who release his albums on coloured vinyl exclusive to them, including his own store. Some of these are in-store in their respective countries and cause a similar issue to these Doctor Who vinyls we’re discussing. If the retailer coughs up the money to have their own exclusive, then I think that’s fair play. That’s all the Doctor Who vinyls need, a retailer that’s online and offers worldwide shipping. Amazon do exclusives of the 60s soundtracks don’t they? I wonder what they’d think to having a couple of Big Finish’s? They could get away with a larger quantity of units too, I reckon. Yup, Amazon Australia has both The Daleks' Master Plan and The Tomb of the Cybermen on vinyl as part of catalogue. They'd certainly be a contender worth investigating, there's only five LPs left for the former and just one for the latter (circa this post). JB Hi-Fi could be another candidate, having a sturdy history of stocking Doctor Who merchandise and vinyl records. It's now the seventh largest consumer electronics retailer in the world, so it wouldn't be too much off their nose to try. It'd also open up opportunities to stock in New Zealand, since they have a presence there as well.
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Post by shallacatop on May 29, 2019 9:39:54 GMT
As an aside, please don’t go thinking I’m some horrible person depriving you of your purchases. It’s not like that at all. I’m just not convinced the current method of distributing these exclusives is made for overseas distribution. It needs a different approach that allows those overseas to have the opportunity to purchase, as well as maintaining the limited nature which is the selling point. That I’m sure we can agree on.
You never know, it might be as simple as Big Finish asking HMV that they’ll contribute towards the costs and produce, say, 1,500 units. 1,000 for HMV in store as usual, and 500 for selling on the Big Finish site. That seems more realistic too, as we know 500 units has sold out on the BF site prior, with the Class sets.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2019 10:03:02 GMT
As an aside, please don’t go thinking I’m some horrible person depriving you of your purchases. It’s not like that at all. I’m just not convinced the current method of distributing these exclusives is made for overseas distribution. It needs a different approach that allows those overseas to have the opportunity to purchase, as well as maintaining the limited nature which is the selling point. That I’m sure we can agree on. You never know, it might be as simple as Big Finish asking HMV that they’ll contribute towards the costs and produce, say, 1,500 units. 1,000 for HMV in store as usual, and 500 for selling on the Big Finish site. That seems more realistic too, as we know 500 units has sold out on the BF site prior, with the Class sets. Horrible person? Nah, it was just a misunderstanding. Happens to us all, between us all, don't worry about it. There we can definitely agree. I do think there'll be a shift in how they distribute some of their content to accommodate its more unusual nature. Back to basics, whatever else happens, it should certainly prove fascinating.
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Post by shallacatop on May 29, 2019 16:55:43 GMT
Something I forgot to mention. The Death and the Queen vinyl that’s been seen with a HMV sticker on (albeit the wrong one) is presumably part of HMV’s vinyl week from 7th - 16th June. The actual exclusive pressings will probably launch Saturday 15th.
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Post by Timelord007 on May 30, 2019 10:05:36 GMT
Not so much BF but BBC are releasing Evil Of The Daleks on vinyl in July, i just pre-ordered 3 copies from Amazon.
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Post by mark687 on May 30, 2019 16:08:26 GMT
Regards
mark687
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Post by rompers on Jun 6, 2019 23:44:12 GMT
Any more hints or news on that Death and the Queen spoiler?
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jun 7, 2019 2:41:19 GMT
Any more hints or news on that Death and the Queen spoiler? Nothing as of yet.. Interesting HHMM..
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Post by mark687 on Jun 7, 2019 9:49:00 GMT
Any more hints or news on that Death and the Queen spoiler? Maybe keep an eye open next week at
And be up early next Saturday (15th June)
Regards
mark687
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Post by rompers on Jun 7, 2019 9:59:46 GMT
Any more hints or news on that Death and the Queen spoiler? Maybe keep an eye open next week at
And be up early next Saturday (15th June)
Regards
mark687
I had that bit worked out... But cheers, waiting to somehow have it collected for me so it can posted over with the ASDA one...
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jun 7, 2019 10:05:34 GMT
Maybe keep an eye open next week at
And be up early next Saturday (15th June)
Regards
mark687
I had that bit worked out... But cheers, waiting to somehow have it collected for me so it can posted over with the ASDA one... Yes. :-)
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Post by andrew on Jun 8, 2019 12:25:53 GMT
Still two copies of The Creeping Death on vinyl in my local Asda. If anyone was unable to track down a copy, I’d be happy to buy and send one in the post.
(Sorry if this sort of post is against the rules).
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