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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 17:04:30 GMT
I must admit the idea of Commie Daleks ensuring total equality by making everyone equally enslaved or dead does appeal to my satirical side! But villains in US films are always English aren't they? No. No, they're not. Well most villains in the world are English🤪 Just joking my English neighbours😂
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Post by Ela on Oct 5, 2018 17:05:22 GMT
You would say that. You're Scottish.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 17:19:44 GMT
You would say that. You're Scottish. Shhh dont tell EVERyone lol😂
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Post by Ela on Oct 5, 2018 17:26:45 GMT
You would say that. You're Scottish. Shhh dont tell EVERyone lol😂 Hey, you're the one who had a profile pic with a kilt.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 17:41:52 GMT
I must admit the idea of Commie Daleks ensuring total equality by making everyone equally enslaved or dead does appeal to my satirical side! But villains in US films are always English aren't they? No. No, they're not. Without going into an exhaustive list of especially 1990's Villains (Passenger 57, Die Hard, Robin Hood, Judge Dredd et al, - even the Stallone remake of Get Carter made Michael Caine the English Villain of the piece), what of those films where the Bad Guys(c) are supposed to be of other nationalities, but are played by the English. All the Indiana Jones Films. Nazi? Commie? Cast a Brit. Even Brosnan's last Bond, Die Another Day, with North Korea as the booh-hiss villains, somehow had Toby Stephens shoehorned in as the arch foe. Corrupted by Public School as only we do best. It has oft been claimed that for many English Actors, gaining a high profile Hollywood role meant accepting the role of the Villain. Jeremy Irons, Bruce Payne, James Mason, Alan Rickman, to name a few. Others have said that they never broke out of British TV roles because they would not do so. Yeah, skepticism is deserved when claiming to have turned ones nose up to the Yankee Dollar, but it's quite an easy excuse to swallow, focusing on certain genres of Popcorn seat fillers. The Patrick Stewarts, James McAvoy's and John Hurt's ad-infinitum contradict this, I know. Goldfinger though - being a British film, they cast Gert Frobe (German) as the English Villain. I guess we can play pot and kettle if we take it any way seriously..
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Post by Ela on Oct 5, 2018 17:50:44 GMT
Without going into an exhaustive list of especially 1990's Villains (Passenger 57, Die Hard, Robin Hood, Judge Dredd et al, - even the Stallone remake of Get Carter made Michael Caine the English Villain of the piece), what of those films where the Bad Guys(c) are supposed to be of other nationalities, but are played by the English. All the Indiana Jones Films. Nazi? Commie? Cast a Brit. Even Brosnan's last Bond, Die Another Day, with North Korea as the booh-hiss villains, somehow had Toby Stephens shoehorned in as the arch foe. Corrupted by Public School as only we do best. It has oft been claimed that for many English Actors, gaining a high profile Hollywood role meant accepting the role of the Villain. Jeremy Irons, Bruce Payne, James Mason, Alan Rickman, to name a few. Others have said that they never broke out of British TV roles because they would not do so. Yeah, skepticism is deserved when claiming to have turned ones nose up to the Yankee Dollar, but it's quite an easy excuse to swallow, focusing on certain genres of Popcorn seat fillers. The Patrick Stewarts, James McAvoy's and John Hurt's ad-infinitum contradict this, I know. Goldfinger though - being a British film, they cast Gert Frobe (German) as the English Villain. I guess we can play pot and kettle if we take it any way seriously.. If I had the time, energy, and inclination, I'm sure I could come up with a longer list of villains who are not British. Of all the movies I remember having seen or heard about in my life, very few had a British villain.
But not particularly interested in playing pot and kettle.
Nor having a prolonged debate about it.
How about we quit stereotyping?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 17:58:13 GMT
The argument is moot now that Hollywood has decreed Ben Mendelsohn must play every villain role going forward. Every. Last. One.
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Post by Ela on Oct 5, 2018 17:59:14 GMT
Okay, that made me laugh.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 18:03:56 GMT
Without going into an exhaustive list of especially 1990's Villains (Passenger 57, Die Hard, Robin Hood, Judge Dredd et al, - even the Stallone remake of Get Carter made Michael Caine the English Villain of the piece), what of those films where the Bad Guys(c) are supposed to be of other nationalities, but are played by the English. All the Indiana Jones Films. Nazi? Commie? Cast a Brit. Even Brosnan's last Bond, Die Another Day, with North Korea as the booh-hiss villains, somehow had Toby Stephens shoehorned in as the arch foe. Corrupted by Public School as only we do best. It has oft been claimed that for many English Actors, gaining a high profile Hollywood role meant accepting the role of the Villain. Jeremy Irons, Bruce Payne, James Mason, Alan Rickman, to name a few. Others have said that they never broke out of British TV roles because they would not do so. Yeah, skepticism is deserved when claiming to have turned ones nose up to the Yankee Dollar, but it's quite an easy excuse to swallow, focusing on certain genres of Popcorn seat fillers. The Patrick Stewarts, James McAvoy's and John Hurt's ad-infinitum contradict this, I know. Goldfinger though - being a British film, they cast Gert Frobe (German) as the English Villain. I guess we can play pot and kettle if we take it any way seriously.. If I had the time, energy, and inclination, I'm sure I could come up with a longer list of villains who are not British. Of all the movies I remember having seen or heard about in my life, very few had a British villain.
But not particularly interested in playing pot and kettle.
Nor having a prolonged debate about it.
How about we quit stereotyping? Absolutely! It's a non-starter really. I think I tried to point out the contradictions myself in the supposed argument/debate. We are all secretly pleased to see ourselves in big films (something we no longer make over here anymore).
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 5, 2018 18:30:00 GMT
Well, to throw in my 2 cents- NOTHING beats a good Nazi villain. (hides behind desk) Although, when you can get a Blofeld- like villain, and a sinister cat, stick to that. Tried and tested and why would you try anything new?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 18:33:11 GMT
Well, to throw in my 2 cents- NOTHING beats a good Nazi villain. (hides behind desk) Although, when you can get a Blofeld- like villain, and a sinister cat, stick to that. Tried and tested and why would you try anything new? I have never been a fan of Nazi villains/alien help influence, humanity doesn’t need any help in fulfilling its evil. In a way i always think nope never let humanity off this planet we would ruin what must be a beautiful universe ðŸ¤
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 5, 2018 18:36:38 GMT
Well, to throw in my 2 cents- NOTHING beats a good Nazi villain. (hides behind desk) Although, when you can get a Blofeld- like villain, and a sinister cat, stick to that. Tried and tested and why would you try anything new? I have never been a fan of Nazi villains/alien help influence, humanity doesn’t need any help in fulfilling its evil. In a way i always think nope never let humanity off this planet we would ruin what must be a beautiful universe 🤠But that is exactly the point- EVERYBODY agrees to hate Nazis (well, except for Nazis obviously), even most German people do. It is the de-humanizing evil that we all fear. This is why they make such good villains. Heck, they even are recurring villains in my own nightmares. No joke.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 18:46:24 GMT
I have never been a fan of Nazi villains/alien help influence, humanity doesn’t need any help in fulfilling its evil. In a way i always think nope never let humanity off this planet we would ruin what must be a beautiful universe 🤠But that is exactly the point- EVERYBODY agrees to hate Nazis (well, except for Nazis obviously), even most German people do. It is the de-humanizing evil that we all fear. This is why they make such good villains. Heck, they even are recurring villains in my own nightmares. No joke. Their misguided ideology is evil as was communism-they failed,Thank God.My German friends used to carry a heavy burden about it all as if it was them.That used to sadden me. The Scots of the past before the Irish Potato famine and the rush of immigrants from Ireland were quite an obnoxious bunch when you read history lol.The Scots gentry were so much a part of the slave trade etc,shouldn’t we have more Scottish villains. Am one of those people who tend to hate slightly comedic takes on them Let’s Kill Hitler for instance. Best villain though ever in fiction is Outlanders Captain Jack Randall now that was evil...sent chills down me especially Tobias Menzies take on the character
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 18:49:22 GMT
I have never been a fan of Nazi villains/alien help influence, humanity doesn’t need any help in fulfilling its evil. In a way i always think nope never let humanity off this planet we would ruin what must be a beautiful universe 🤠But that is exactly the point- EVERYBODY agrees to hate Nazis (well, except for Nazis obviously), even most German people do. It is the de-humanizing evil that we all fear. This is why they make such good villains. Heck, they even are recurring villains in my own nightmares. No joke. Also - let's remember how the Daleks evolved to become a representation of Nazism (or subconsciously from the start, if Terry Nation was sincere on this point, rather than having it pointed out to him of the potential). They have become a symbolic example of Humanities capacity for Evil and how difficult it can be to disengage/resist when a form of (mass hysteria?) normalisation takes place. It think Quatermass and the Pit hinted at this too (Though thankfully The Daemons did not plagiarise this bit too heavily as the Wicker Man got there first).
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Post by tuigirl on Oct 5, 2018 19:10:42 GMT
But that is exactly the point- EVERYBODY agrees to hate Nazis (well, except for Nazis obviously), even most German people do. It is the de-humanizing evil that we all fear. This is why they make such good villains. Heck, they even are recurring villains in my own nightmares. No joke. Their misguided ideology is evil as was communism-they failed,Thank God.My German friends used to carry a heavy burden about it all as if it was them.That used to sadden me. The Scots of the past before the Irish Potato famine and the rush of immigrants from Ireland were quite an obnoxious bunch when you read history lol.The Scots gentry were so much a part of the slave trade etc,shouldn’t we have more Scottish villains. Am one of those people who tend to hate slightly comedic takes on them Let’s Kill Hitler for instance. Best villain though ever in fiction is Outlanders Captain Jack Randall now that was evil...sent chills down me especially Tobias Menzies take on the character Well, my grandparents suffered a lot during the Nazis and both of my granddads were press-ganged into the army to invade Russia. Luckily both granddads made it back, but both that PTSD afterwards which also made my dad and my mum suffer.
But I am totally with you. You have to see the comedic side of it. A few years ago a great German novel came out- "He is back" which is about Hitler being transferred in time and coming back in modern times.
It is an amazing book which I found absolutely gripping. It is very controversial in Germany (as you can imagine) because the older generation still believes that you should not make jokes about Hitler and his regime because it was so dead serious. But this book is great because it mixes comedy with realism and absolutely, CHILLINGLY, made it clear that Hitler would also succeed today.
You laugh one moment, the next moment chills run down your spine. The last scene of the book was especially scary... Hitler, now boss of a media empire, leaning back in his chair, looking at his trusted followers (among them his press secretary who is a goth (!!) with a Jewish grandma no less!) and saying: "Well now. This is a good start."
They also made a movie out of it but that was kind of crap.
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Post by jasonward on Oct 5, 2018 19:12:42 GMT
But that is exactly the point- EVERYBODY agrees to hate Nazis (well, except for Nazis obviously), even most German people do. It is the de-humanizing evil that we all fear. This is why they make such good villains. Heck, they even are recurring villains in my own nightmares. No joke. Their misguided ideology is evil as was communism-they failed,Thank God.My German friends used to carry a heavy burden about it all as if it was them.That used to sadden me. The Scots of the past before the Irish Potato famine and the rush of immigrants from Ireland were quite an obnoxious bunch when you read history lol.The Scots gentry were so much a part of the slave trade etc,shouldn’t we have more Scottish villains. Am one of those people who tend to hate slightly comedic takes on them Let’s Kill Hitler for instance. Best villain though ever in fiction is Outlanders Captain Jack Randall now that was evil...sent chills down me especially Tobias Menzies take on the character To conflate Nazism with Communism as both evil is rather strange. Nazism has as an ideology has notion of superiority and inferiority baked right into it, it supports from the get go the idea that treating as inhuman anyone not of the correct "whatever" as OK, even good. Communism does not. Communism starts with the principle we are all equal or should be. That is not to say that evil things have not been done in the name of communism, but equally evil things have been done in the name of democracy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 19:16:30 GMT
Their misguided ideology is evil as was communism-they failed,Thank God.My German friends used to carry a heavy burden about it all as if it was them.That used to sadden me. The Scots of the past before the Irish Potato famine and the rush of immigrants from Ireland were quite an obnoxious bunch when you read history lol.The Scots gentry were so much a part of the slave trade etc,shouldn’t we have more Scottish villains. Am one of those people who tend to hate slightly comedic takes on them Let’s Kill Hitler for instance. Best villain though ever in fiction is Outlanders Captain Jack Randall now that was evil...sent chills down me especially Tobias Menzies take on the character Well, my grandparents suffered a lot during the Nazis and both of my granddads were press-ganged into the army to invade Russia. Luckily both granddads made it back, but both that PTSD afterwards which also made my dad and my mum suffer.
But I am totally with you. You have to see the comedic side of it. A few years ago a great German novel came out- "He is back" which is about Hitler being transferred in time and coming back in modern times.
It is an amazing book which I found absolutely gripping. It is very controversial in Germany (as you can imagine) because the older generation still believes that you should not make jokes about Hitler and his regime because it was so dead serious. But this book is great because it mixes comedy with realism and absolutely, CHILLINGLY, made it clear that Hitler would also succeed today.
You laugh one moment, the next moment chills run down your spine. The last scene of the book was especially scary... Hitler, now boss of a media empire, leaning back in his chair, looking at his trusted followers (among them his press secretary who is a goth (!!) with a Jewish grandma no less!) and saying: "Well now. This is a good start."
They also made a movie out of it but that was kind of crap.
I think I wasn’t clear perhaps bad writing on my part I am of the opinion of not making too many jokes about it either.But i understand people who do.Oh yes and i believe Hitler would also find many a willing ear nowadays,sad. perhaps not a book for me but i can imagine it humanity is sometimes very very easily led but we live amid many many moral/ethical problems and traps it is understandable
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 19:19:14 GMT
Their misguided ideology is evil as was communism-they failed,Thank God.My German friends used to carry a heavy burden about it all as if it was them.That used to sadden me. The Scots of the past before the Irish Potato famine and the rush of immigrants from Ireland were quite an obnoxious bunch when you read history lol.The Scots gentry were so much a part of the slave trade etc,shouldn’t we have more Scottish villains. Am one of those people who tend to hate slightly comedic takes on them Let’s Kill Hitler for instance. Best villain though ever in fiction is Outlanders Captain Jack Randall now that was evil...sent chills down me especially Tobias Menzies take on the character To conflate Nazism with Communism as both evil is rather strange. Nazism has as an ideology has notion of superiority and inferiority baked right into it, it supports from the get go the idea that treating as inhuman anyone not of the correct "whatever" as OK, even good. Communism does not. Communism starts with the principle we are all equal or should be. That is not to say that evil things have not been done in the name of communism, but equally evil things have been done in the name of democracy.
Am in a good mood so i wont enter a big argument it didn’t work in China it didn’t work in Russia the only way it would work is removing humanity from the face of the planet. Millions dead more than the Nazis killed far far more.Communism failed its principles for the good its practical application by humans a total failure
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2018 19:22:41 GMT
we have a very famous prophecy part of our rich history The Prophecies of Our Lady Of Fatima, she appeared in 1917 she prophesied the second worl war nations being annihilated etc and she warned of the errors of Russia not mentioning the rise of the Nazis obviously the errors of Communism were of more concern than those of Nazism.Communism comes in a great disguise .In My Opinion
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Post by number13 on Oct 5, 2018 19:26:37 GMT
The TARDIS would be forever disguised as a hot dog stand after the chamaeleon circuit broke while the Ship was parked outside a ball game. The First Doctor would look like James T. Kirk, be equally good at fist-fights and would have got his top off on a similarly improbably high number of occasions.
He would be heavily armed with Time Lord weapons (and stories would be over a lot quicker!) The food machine would produce branded products linked to the sponsors.
The villains in Earthbound stories would all be posh and English.
Historicals would all take place in America during the War of Independence. And the villains would be posh English redcoat officers. Preferably with titles.
Daleks would speak with posh English accents and say 'God Save the King' instead of 'exterminate'. Davros would drink tea and be English (and posh.) Stereotyping much? Surely not? Fwiw I don't mind at all being from a nation of screen villains famed for their style, accents, suavity etc. Many's the time in America that someone has been kind enough to say 'I love your British accent'. Though sadly I don't have the undersea base etc. to go with it. My serious point was that, if 'Doctor Who' had originated in 50s/60s America it would likely have turned out more like 'Star Trek' for the same reasons that 'Star Trek' did - I believe the original pitch was something along the lines of 'Wagon train to the stars.'
And the 'hot dog stand' was a genuine attempt to think of something very American and small enough to be movable, but large enough for a few actors to run into and slam the door on whatever was chasing them!
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