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Post by sherlock on Oct 21, 2018 22:28:20 GMT
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Oct 21, 2018 22:28:59 GMT
I loved it for the most part: it was respectful of the situation and event and gave us a good "caper" episode that had some depth as well as some real times-Wiley stakes. Great teamwork by the gang. I could have done with some more motivation from the villain but I hang around on Twitter and that plan was pretty deep for a guy like that.
My reservations come from the overall series: where did they eat? How did they pay for things like bus fares and repairs to the coat? And I was genuinely surprised by the decision to not have the title music over the end credits, although it didn't worry me that we didn't get an opening sequence to TWWFTE. Minor niggles, really. It was a great effort.
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Post by drj on Oct 21, 2018 22:32:24 GMT
Best one so far. Little wobble with the space bit at the end but overall, pulled off very well. Grim times, back then. The Asteroid exists discovered and named in 2014 according to the Web.
Regards
mark687
So it has! Feeling better about that bit now. Thanks!
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Post by pazzer on Oct 21, 2018 22:55:35 GMT
Lots to unpack and might have to rewatch. Bit disappointed it doesn't continue right from last weeks episode and they've had several more adventures. Was confused when guy knocked on Tardis then tried to break in. Though I guess that was setting him up as the villain. While the villain was well acted I would have liked to know more about him. Such as his crime and motivation beyond him just been a racist. The battle of wits at the end was good but this for me was the weakest part.Would rather one of the Tardis crew or even just there arrival had thrown history off track. Or the guy had turned out to be a time agent sent back to stop them missing up history.
For the most part it felt like a drama and so the sci fi elements felt out of place. Fishing scene and bus delivery scene didn't really fit the rest of the episode. The characters were great and their reactions felt real. Loved the scene near the end where they had to stay on the bus.
At times felt a bit like a lecture but still best episode of the series so far.
6.5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 0:55:39 GMT
It was quite an unbelievable episode. That Who was in the midst of the US civil rights era was quite surreal throughout. A Who-story that has Rosa Parks and MLK, while name-dropping Emmett Till that still managed to be fun, family oriented telly even more surreal.
I will say - that should have been a historical. The villain would have been so easy to remove from the whole thing and just keeping history on track by Team Tardis having the tragic task of intentionally taking seats up so Rosa had to take her stand would have been as profound and nasty a goal as anything we got here.
Had no issue with the message being very heavy handed - it's clear this era is skewing younger than we've had in yonks and I think talking about these kind of things so overtly to primary age kids is a good thing. There's a place to have subtext but sometimes you need to wave the flag proudly for your side. That's what this ep was doing. There was no "there's wrong on both sides" here. It's what makes Malorie's writing so powerful. She's not pretending to be subtle.
Loved the ep also addressing Yaz's heritage. Hearing the p-word was absolutely shocking. Jaw-dropping for TV Who. I was so impressed to have the "Let's not thing the UK is perfect...." scene. It would have been head-in-the-sand stuff to have the ep not address that Ryan and Yaz would still absolutely be victims of racism in this country even today. Yaz, though she gets more to do here, still hasn't had much character work yet. Again Ryan, and Graham got more developed. She really does need more love as Mandip nails what she is given.
I didn't mind the song at the end - was very much like Vincent And The Doctor using that Athlete song to devastating effect. Going from that ending, celebrating Rosa's life, into the Who sting would have been a bit odd, I can see why they didn't.
I'm also really glad the ep also mentioned Rosa having an incredibly tough life after this. She lived in poverty till she died. It would have been so easy to make it seem as though this event ended her story for a "happy" ending, instead of just being the end of her story's most famous chapter.
Another example of Chibnall tossing a continuity bone that doesn't alienate any newbies with the Stormcage and vortex manipulator.
A tiny bit of anecdotal testimony, my mate James who isn't even a casual fan, facebooked me this "Not joking mate, i started greeting watching that episode". If it can make a rather jaded laddish guy like him cry, it's clearly got more than a bit of power to it, this ep!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 4:03:23 GMT
Ooooh that was friggin awesome
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newt5996
Chancellery Guard
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Post by newt5996 on Oct 22, 2018 4:07:03 GMT
Am I the only one that felt some of the smaller parts were really hammy? Like not the dialogue but the delivery in places just took me out of the episode, especially that waitress lady and the cop.
Still I think the episode is worth 6/10. It puts a bit too much importance I think on Rosa Parks as the only cause of civil rights as the case that ends segregation had already been started by then. Also the pop song made me cringe and that scene would be way more powerful with no music.
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 22, 2018 4:51:42 GMT
I will say - that should have been a historical. The villain would have been so easy to remove from the whole thing and just keeping history on track by Team Tardis having the tragic task of intentionally taking seats up so Rosa had to take her stand would have been as profound and nasty a goal as anything we got here. That's the closest thing to a criticism I've come up with is that the TARDIS crew ended up so involved with history that it almost risks inviting the perception that history was too contingent on them, but I'm willing and able to see it as a consequence of the restraint that may be one of this Doctor's strengths, that the situation became more complex than it needed to be - I got a real sense of last resort even from Ryan about doing what finally made short work of the villain. With the level of involvement though, I think it managed a takeaway message that racism can be abusive of tolerance or leniency, and can be especially dangerous when it's combined with deviousness and relentlessness - in this case, one person methodically setting events in motion that would still take four people with foreknowledge of the future everything they could think of to correct, including assuming a proximity to history that they were demonstrably reluctant to assume. Most of all, I don't think their degree of involvement managed to diffuse any message about just how much the outcome of the unfolding events was contingent on Rosa herself, regardless of what the TARDIS team did. (I still felt more like it was they and not Rosa Parks who were the guest stars here, which made the closing music seem that much more appropriate). Others might not find the episode so flawless, but I was rather awed by the whole thing. It's bolstered my faith in Chibnall even further, right along with my enthusiasm for the show. (Also I do like the TARDIS interior having seen it light up now, it looks really nice. I think I'm especially liking the way this Doctor is written - subtle enough, so you might almost begin to wonder if maybe she's being depicted as a little bit ineffectual, then she takes charge of the situation and suddenly you realize just how in charge of it she really is. That just makes my day every time).
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Post by TimPendragon on Oct 22, 2018 6:33:02 GMT
Copy and paste from my Facebook, because I don't feel like re-writing the whole thing:
Doctor Who, Series 11, Episode 3 - "Rosa"
This is a superbly executed hour of television, wonderfully acted and written with both honesty and respect. But it is going to divide a lot of people. Not even necessarily over it's social content, but in terms of what people expect from Doctor Who.
The TARDIS team is in top form here, but the star of this episode is undoubtedly the title character, portrayed by Vinette Robinson. I'm still digesting everything - even having seen it twice now - but it is indeed Rosa Parks who carries the episode, in every way. A careless writer could easily have written her as a kind of messianic figure, and a lesser actor could have played her with an Edith Keeler-like earnestness that would have undercut the reality of who Rosa was. A forthright and determined woman, both idealistic and pragmatic, who had enough self-respect to recognize she deserved to be treated as well as anyone else, and the courage to act on that belief.
There are no monsters, no aliens. The sci-fi elements are kept to a minimum. This is as close to a "pure historical" as the revived series has ever gotten, and could easily have fit well in the First Doctor era, something that seems more and more to be Chris Chibnall's intent with each episode that airs. The nearest to a "pure" historical that NuWho has done to this point was probably "Vincent and the Doctor."
People will complain about the villain and his resolution, and there are many unanswered questions about that, certainly. Perhaps we will get those answers down the line. Series 11 may not have an overall "arc," in the way of the RTD or Moffat eras, but each episode is definitely laying groundwork for the future.
But what this episode does, more than anything else I've ever seen in Doctor Who, from 1963 until now, is make the viewer feel uncomfortable. It's meant to, and we *need* to be made uncomfortable by what we see happening throughout the episode. It's not over-the-top, it's not heavy-handed (despite what certain segments of the Twitterverse will claim). It's merely accurate. And the fact that is is so accurate, is what makes it uncomfortable. If that discomfort leads to a greater awareness, then so much the better.
Whether this will really feel like "Doctor Who" to some people will depend a lot on what they bring to it. For me, it's unlike anything else the show has done. I tend to think of certain episodes of Doctor Who as more "Star Trek-y" than others, but if this one took a page out of any other show's playbook, it wasn't Star Trek. It was Quantum Leap. For the first time in my life that I remember, I felt like Sam Beckett was riding shotgun with the Doctor, or at the very least, standing over her shoulder with a look of encouragement and pride. Not that the Doctor would ever have needed Sam's help to fix something, really, but it's just the style and tone of this episode put it in such a different space than the rest of modern Who, it feels like it would easily have been in Quantum Leap's top ten.
And I have a feeling this will be the episode that everyone looks back on the Jodie Whittaker/Chris Chibnall era and will remember the way people remember Vincent and the Doctor.
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Post by Timelord007 on Oct 22, 2018 7:35:07 GMT
Fantastic episode that doesn't shy away or hold back on showing the appalling racism of the era, it sees hard to believe that a person of colour would have to give up there seat for a "white" person it seems hard to imagine that actually happened & portraying signs in hotels "whites only" it beggars belief that we as a human race treated other races so appallingly, Ryan being slapped, racially slurred & threatened to be hung was a shock for a family drama but needed to shock & educate how far we as humans evolved & how far we still need to evolve.
Chibnall brought the risk & boldness to this episode & co-wrote with Malorie Blackman a powerful, emotional brilliantly acted episode, high praise for actress Vinette Robinson as Rosa Parks, this season has returned the show to top form & the mature tone feels more serious & dramatic & less pantomime, loved Bradley Walsh subtle performance as Graham in this when witnessing Rosa refusal to give up her seat he's a amazing actor, his facial reactions say far more than words.
Only quibble the time agent gone rogue, one assumes he'll be turning up here & there in other episodes as he was dispatched far to easy, i think he'll feature in a couple more episodes building up a potential arc despite Chibnall saying no arcs this year.
This gets a 5/5 from me.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Oct 22, 2018 7:46:22 GMT
It's been on Australian now for like 6 minutes.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Oct 22, 2018 8:40:29 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 8:47:24 GMT
Rosa: 6.39 million overnights.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Oct 22, 2018 8:55:44 GMT
Rosa: 6.39 million overnights. Another drop but not quite as large as ep 1 - 2. I think we will end up averaging about 5.5million for the overnights
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Post by TimPendragon on Oct 22, 2018 8:59:31 GMT
Only quibble the time agent gone rogue, one assumes he'll be turning up here & there in other episodes as he was dispatched far to easy, i think he'll feature in a couple more episodes building up a potential arc despite Chibnall saying no arcs this year.
I'm sure he'll figure into some episode in the future, yeah, but there's no evidence he was a rogue time agent. He could be, but he said he got the vortex manipulator through the prison black market in Stormcage. Other than that, all we really know is he's a mass murderer who thinks history went wrong with desegregation, and had his time displacement gun set to send things to the 79th century. Elsewhere, they're assuming that means he's from the 79th century, but that's not necessarily true. Stormcages and the tech he used all seem consisted with the 49th-52nd century era. But who knows. Lots of unanswered questions, and hopefully we'll find out more.
That's my only quibble with the episode. By having the villain there, instead of just making it a pure historical, they set up a lot that felt like it got no pay off. In that sense, the episode feels unfinished.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Oct 22, 2018 9:02:17 GMT
Ohh my God. What a story.
It was an interesting choice to focus on Graham during the critical moment, because in effect he was the only member of the crew with agency in that situation, the Doctor was a woman, Yaz and Ryan “coloureds”. If any of the others spoke up, Blake ould have ignored them, but a fellow white man would have been different...
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Post by relativetime on Oct 22, 2018 9:05:41 GMT
Maybe it's just because I finished watching the episode, but I'm inclined to say I thought this was easily a 10/10 episode. In fact, I'd almost say this is 13's "Vincent and the Doctor," but it's still very early to say! What I will say is that it's just about everything I've been missing from historical stories in New Who without actually making it a pure historical. I really hope this is the standard for historical stories moving forward - if there has to be aliens or some outside influence, I really hope they tone it down like I thought they did here. My eyes were glued to the screen the entire time.
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Post by stcoop on Oct 22, 2018 9:08:26 GMT
Rosa: 6.39 million overnights. I'm guessing this will be the regular level now.
On the final figures it'll still beat every episode from last series.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Oct 22, 2018 9:13:25 GMT
Rosa: 6.39 million overnights. I'm guessing this will be the regular level now.
On the final figures it'll still beat every episode from last series.
With the twitter buzz it's getting, it could shoot up to maybe 8.5-9 million easily over the next 7 days.
Of course, expect numbskulls to start going 'HURR HURR, DUKTUR WHO IS DEAD!', ignoring the fact that several Smith and Tenant episodes scored lower than this did, better than about 75%of Capaldi's, and the BBC don't make decisions based on overnights anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 9:13:47 GMT
Only quibble the time agent gone rogue, one assumes he'll be turning up here & there in other episodes as he was dispatched far to easy, i think he'll feature in a couple more episodes building up a potential arc despite Chibnall saying no arcs this year.
I'm sure he'll figure into some episode in the future, yeah, but there's no evidence he was a rogue time agent. He could be, but he said he got the vortex manipulator through the prison black market in Stormcage. Other than that, all we really know is he's a mass murderer who thinks history went wrong with desegregation, and had his time displacement gun set to send things to the 79th century. Elsewhere, they're assuming that means he's from the 79th century, but that's not necessarily true. Stormcages and the tech he used all seem consisted with the 49th-52nd century era. But who knows. Lots of unanswered questions, and hopefully we'll find out more.
That's my only quibble with the episode. By having the villain there, instead of just making it a pure historical, they set up a lot that felt like it got no pay off. In that sense, the episode feels unfinished.
I know what you mean. Also, the villain's dispatch was so quick, that too made me think the story may not be over.
I wonder if this is deliberate though? Just as Ryan's dyspraxia failed to magically disappear at the end of episode one, so Rosa didn't pretend that the issues contained in the story had been completely wiped away - or would ever be, perhaps.
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