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Post by J.A. Prentice on Nov 26, 2018 6:46:56 GMT
I loved every second of this. Alan Cumming was hilarious as King James and actually did a pretty job as a caricature of the real King James. Exaggerated for comedic effect, certainly, but the character was rooted in real aspects of James I/VI – his witch obsession, his sexuality, etc. I've rarely seen an actor so obviously loving playing their part. Jodie Whittaker felt the most Doctor-like she's been so far, with lots of delightful moments like her debate with James while bound, her fury at the witch hunts, and her Arthur C. Clarke quotation. Was the ending a little rushed? Absolutely. But that's a pretty common problem with new Doctor Who and I didn't mind it that much. It certainly worked better than the nonsensical ending to Arachnids or the morally-ifffy end to Kerblam! And good monsters! It's been a while since we've had some great straight-up monsters – the last lot that meet both qualifications were the Cybermen. The corpses reanimating was delightfully macabre in the way Doctor Who should be and the idea of a tree binding an ancient prison, while making no sense as science fiction, plays brilliantly as fantasy. 9.5/10 = 5/5 My personal favourite this series so far.
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 26, 2018 7:30:00 GMT
Absolutely loved this from start to finish very Robert Holmes like in tone, yeah the ending was slightly rushed but overall this was a cracking story with featured some genuine scares, Jodies Doctor again gets involved in the action & leads while Alan Cummings was gloriously fun as as King James I adding emotion & a slight fallibility to a character which could've easily have been just played for laughs.
One of my favourite episode's of the series so far. 4/5.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 26, 2018 9:10:30 GMT
Competent and enjoyable, but this one just didn't grab me as much as some of the others. A bit predictable, somewhat rushed, nothing really original. But a nice atmosphere, and some good quips. Absolutely alright, but nothing special or memorable, in my book.
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Post by number13 on Nov 26, 2018 9:41:44 GMT
I went in trailer-free and this episode wasn't at all what I'd expected (which had been a basically serious historical, plus aliens) but I liked what we got instead! The historical 'accuracy' and mixed darkness and fun of 'The Romans' with guest monsters and Alan Cumming's fabulous James I, excellent!
It was all over too quickly and suddenly or I'd have given it five stars (instead of four), but there was so much to enjoy. A serious historical opening section taking in the evil and oppressiveness of 'witch hunting' - before something alien wriggles out of the mud, the dead rise and we're in Holmesian monster territory where the magic is (if not magic) real alien power - and then in breezes the King, all ruff, mask and pantaloons with his box of charms, 'instruments' and (the mind boggles!) 'body parts'!
Alan Cumming's James was pure genius in both writing and performance - moments of the real king among lots of the panto king. Excellent serious moments including that great standoff with the Doctor which showed some of his conflict between the desire for knowledge and the strength of his beliefs - and the tense scene where the Doctor is being ducked and you can see his inner conflict and doubt playing out across James' face. And he was also a brilliantly camp comic king who stole the show and a brave king who helped save the world by 'exorcising' a mud monster filled with the 'spirit' of an alien war criminal who wanted to conquer our planet, just as the Doctor locked them back into jail. Job done I'd say, Doctor and your Majesty! (Bows theatrically, doffs enormous hat. ) And proper monsters! We actually got proper, evil alien monsters this week who wanted to take over the Earth! (I was so pleased )
I thought the design was excellent including the ducking-stool tree - it had the significant look of 'sacred oaks' and for once I wasn't that surprised when it turned out to be (literally) the key to the prison. Whether King Arthur or others, the idea of a king and his sleeping army bound by magic comes up many times in our traditions - a nice twist that they turned out to be real, alien and evil but they were locked back into sleep under the green hill, just as the legends say.
Great stuff from the Doctor (carrying most of the serious scenes and some action and I was just waiting for the 'Houdini' moment and name check -yay!) and the Companions (mostly having fun, especially Graham and Ryan) and I liked the literary details too. Quotes from the Old and New Testaments, the Book of Tarantino and the Laws of Clarke. And that book in Becka's bedroom 'Daemonologie' was a real work on fighting witchcraft penned by - guess who - King James.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 10:20:07 GMT
Well, that was rather delightful. The pseudo-historical format is pretty much defining the best of the best for this era thus far. Alan Cumming's absolutely glimmering as King James, this swaggering gentleman hiding the fear and resentment of his isolation behind his bonhomie. The Doctor's conversation with him right before her trial about knowledge and personal demons struck me as a defining moment for her character. Her assertion that truth and knowledge not only stems from a search of outer space, but inner space as well. I love how she knows all about James, but she can't get him to understand her empathy for him because of that different context (historical domain values vs. time traveller values). More of that, please. The mud leaking from Becca's eye as she breaks down -- both emotionally and physically -- is gloriously executed, I think it's my second favourite scene of the episode. The companions all feel as though they got a fair amount to do this particular episode as well. I rather liked Yaz's physicality with the tendrils at the grave, Graham's improvisational skills at the manor and the interplay between Ryan and James as they walked. It felt as though it squeezed every last drop of substance it could from the runtime it had. It was altogether rather fun. I'm very excited for It Takes You Away. Fingers crossed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 10:57:38 GMT
Brilliant. My favourite episode so far. A fun story, at last the Doctor had a bit more confidence & didn't feel as blandly written as I felt she has been in a few episodes. Alan Cumming was fantastic & the plot raced along. Very atmospheric with a folk horror feel. 5/5.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 26, 2018 11:05:13 GMT
5.66m overnight www.doctorwhonews.net/2018/11/the-witchfinders-overnight-viewing.htmlSeems like we have now stabilized: Jodie's staying in the high 5s overnight, which was roundabout Capaldi's overall average. Add the 1.5-2m from 7 days and yeah, we look like we're sticking in the 7s moving forward. Whether or not It Takes You Away might be too weird for the broader audience to enjoy and thus lead to a further dip, I don't know.
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Post by mark687 on Nov 26, 2018 11:23:48 GMT
5.66m overnight www.doctorwhonews.net/2018/11/the-witchfinders-overnight-viewing.htmlSeems like we have now stabilized: Jodie's staying in the high 5s overnight, which was roundabout Capaldi's overall average. Add the 1.5-2m from 7 days and yeah, we look like we're sticking in the 7s moving forward. Whether or not It Takes You Away might be too weird for the broader audience to enjoy and thus lead to a further dip, I don't know. So its stabilized down because its been shifted half an hour with was Moffatt's reasoning for Capaldi's low ratings, so that seems to hold true, don't move it pre or past 7-8PM if you want really impressive Overnight number.
Regards
mark687
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 26, 2018 11:27:35 GMT
This is a story that would have benefitted from being three or four episodes in "old money." The ending felt rushed, which has been my biggest issue since the show came back but the rest of it was great. I didn't feel the pacing was uneven rather that it was building and peaking and stepping back. King James and Becca were a great team: zealous but ambiguous in their morality. Willa was a classic supporting character and the three of them were so good that I didn't notice until afterwards that there were only four speaking parts aside from the regulars.
I'm not excited about this season like I was for last season or the one before but I'm really enjoying the overall consistency of the episodes and the overall "steadiness" of the Doctor: I feel safer with her than I've felt with any of the most recent incarnations except for series 10 Capaldi and Series 4 Tennant.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 26, 2018 14:54:46 GMT
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Post by fingersmash on Nov 26, 2018 15:31:36 GMT
Can Alan Cumming come back? I sincerely hope that he becomes the Churchill of the Chibnall era. He's so much fun and there's a lot of character development. Also, love that they didn't shy away from the fact that King James I was gay (and fell for Ryan to the point he tried to pull a King Peladon) and I love this episode in general. If Rosa was the serious side of Doctor Who, this was the fun side. Also, Jodie is finally on her feet as the Doctor. Overall, I feel like all these guest episodes should have been scattered about better through the series instead of the front-loaded Chibnall episodes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 15:52:14 GMT
I tell you one thing I dig about this era - Chibnall's got his 50 mins, longer than RTD or Moffat had. Yet he manages to stretch that even further by not having 5 mins of the TARDIS team talking then landing. It's BANG - straight in. And likewise the denouements tend to be very, very brief too. So that 50 mins gives you the story that an hour, maybe even a bit longer, would do in another era. It's really packed in, jack-in-the-box storytelling.
If I have one silly reservation about this ep - Siobhan Finneran is one of the country's best actors, and though she was great....no-one was upstaging Alan Cumming here! I'd like to have had Siobhan in an ep where she got to shine. From Downton to Benidorm via Happy Valley, she's a mainstay on UK telly. Also starred in one of my favourite British films: Rita, Sue And Bob Too which is not for the prudish!
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Post by Tim Bradley on Nov 26, 2018 18:21:24 GMT
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 26, 2018 18:51:30 GMT
You knew this was coming. Someone asked about King James flirting with Ryan and...
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Nov 26, 2018 20:32:30 GMT
I’d like to have another story where we meet James again, later on in his life. Also, I think it would have been better if he HAD said “let her go...” when asked if to dunk the Doctor, Mad Bekka would still have dunked the Doctor therefore we could have still gotten the Houdini etc comments, but it would have shown that the man who one day will question his actions in relation to witch hunting DOES question his actions. It ould have also learnt power to the Doctor’s philosophy of words win wars.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 21:16:54 GMT
I know Chibnall is making this series as continuity free as possible so it wasn't gonna get mentioned but how odd to think when Jodie was chatting to James....she's talking to the first-cousin-twice-removed of her wife Elizabeth I. James wasn't just a guest star - he's a relative of The Doctor!
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Post by number13 on Nov 27, 2018 0:19:21 GMT
I know Chibnall is making this series as continuity free as possible so it wasn't gonna get mentioned but how odd to think when Jodie was chatting to James....she's talking to the first-cousin-twice-removed of her wife Elizabeth I. James wasn't just a guest star - he's a relative of The Doctor!lol very good point but best not mentioned to James... 'I'm the Doctor and by the way we're family and my wife had your mother executed!' #Tactless
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 0:53:57 GMT
I know Chibnall is making this series as continuity free as possible so it wasn't gonna get mentioned but how odd to think when Jodie was chatting to James....she's talking to the first-cousin-twice-removed of her wife Elizabeth I. James wasn't just a guest star - he's a relative of The Doctor!lol very good point but best not mentioned to James... 'I'm the Doctor and by the way we're family and my wife had your mother executed!' #Tactless Absolutely, I think it's right not to mention it...but just shows how eager Chris is to really make this a "new" show. A really right, obvious connection like that and it's not even hinted at, because the show now is not catering just to those who remember the jokey coda to The Shakespeare Code, the silly opening to End Of Time Part 2 or the slightly dodgy middle act of Day Of The Doctor. If this was Moffat or RTD's era we'd absolutely have something in there about it, I have zero doubt. If The Doctor meets Joe DiMaggio or Arthur Miller and doesn't reference being engaged to Marilyn Monroe when she was in her Eleventh body, I'll be peeved though.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 27, 2018 2:59:47 GMT
Let's see. A number of the quips felt like sorely misplaced humor, but then at the same time, I actually liked Capaldi's quip about the dead soldier being the top layer of goo in Into the Dalek. Sooo I can't claim any consistency there... For me the main thing was that the central question set within the historical - whodunnit - was resolved by a villain monologue. It was almost bond villain in style, but fell short because they failed to explain every last detail of how they were going to take over. No matter. 1.5 hours would have served it a whole lot better. I suppose the villain itself was a pretty generic bad guy. Debating whether to vote 3 or 4, but am leaning towards 4. There really was a whole lot of good stuff but, bleh, the rushed generic ending kind of brought it down. I'd bet if this got a good 1.5h or a little more, I'd be saying 5/5.
I might have preferred yet another straight-forward historical even though that would be quite a few in one season.
All said, I continue to look forward to further episodes more than I have in a while. But we're.....we're almost...ugh.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 27, 2018 3:13:58 GMT
Enjoyable enough but I'm not sure that ending followed any kind of logic but the visuals sure were good. 6/10 Right I forgot to mention that.
Not only was I let down by the reveal-by-monologue aspect (rather than another 10-20m of investigation or whatever), the solution didn't get any real airtime. It reminded me of Smile - an episode I thoroughly enjoyed right up to the "oh, I'll just wave my sonic at it and fix everything" ending.
She cooked something up mainly off screen and stuck it in a stump. Boom. Solved.
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