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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 21, 2018 22:30:48 GMT
Questions...to those who have listened to this Is Will Arrowsmith referenced in this story? Is the cliffhanger at the end of Daleks Among Us addressed? I’ve not heard the story, but from what I have heard along the grapevine, this story completely ignores the existence of that Cliffhanger and Will Arrowsmith. But it is set three years after that trilogy and Klein mentions the Dalek ship.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Nov 21, 2018 22:40:27 GMT
I don't even remember the cliffhanger from that trilogy.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Nov 21, 2018 23:30:41 GMT
I don't even remember the cliffhanger from that trilogy. I think it was something to do with the Doctor and Will being separated from Klein and having to go find her.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 22, 2018 10:38:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2018 4:07:33 GMT
I kinda liked the story itself but I didn't think it took Daniel any further than we left him last time and massively underuses Klein. SHe's such a fascinating character that having most of her actions be ones that could be written for someone else is quite disappointing. Richard Gibson as Colonel McKenna was pretty bad. He delivered every line the same - the line at the end where he stands down from the brink of destruction is delivered as flatly as the rest of it. The character is supposed to be, as the others were, in two minds and conflicted over Ship's orders but it's all one note from him. You'd think being an 'Allo, 'Allo fave he'd know how to play things up but not here. The story would have been massively improved with different casting for him. Daniel can easily be picked up on again if the need/want arises and I must admit I thought things would be more final for him here. Klein got her happiest ending yet, but again one we can pick her up from in the future. I thought someone else would have mentioned what seemed, to me at least, to be quite strong Quatermass And The Pit echoes. A buried ship that exerts a psychic influence on humans after its alien crew are long dead? Only for a Doctor and the military to have to save the day. Hmm. even the name of Warlock's Cross is quite Hobb's End. Certainly seems quite strong in parallels to me. McCoy was pretty great. He seems to be more consistent when companion-less. He rolls his r's less in this whole story than in the opening 60 seconds of The New Adventures too. So, yeah - it was OK. Not sure it wrapped the arc up very well or that Klein was needed but the story itself was fun enough UNIT sci-fi.
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Post by slithe on Nov 24, 2018 12:40:49 GMT
I thought this was a decent release. For some reason, I'm sitting on the fence with it though - usually I either like a story or not, but this one is more of a 'meh'. On the plus side, McCoy is good here and is considerably better, in my opinion, than in the previous two releases. Perhaps this is the way McCoy's releases need to be - companionless and towards the end of Seventh's Incarnation. It makes the character far more interesting and allows the Doctor to be scripted better. Interestingly, the recent announcement about the MR for 2019 might suggest a new direction that could see an improvement (especially now the last story-arc with Ace/Mel has come to an end).
Whilst it was great to see Steve Lyons writing again for BF, I wonder if he would have been better doing something separate with Klein in another adventure. As has already been noted, there just doesn't seem *much* for her to do, which is a shame as the character is an interesting one. The 'temptations' of Ship and her alternate timeline could really have been developed here, but I though they were neglected more for the UNIT angle. Fair enough, as UNIT was the theme of the trilogy, but Klein could have been used for a different release - certainly this story didn't need her in any particular way. The restrictions imposed by trying to 'fit' this into the trilogy perhaps meant that the story could not have gone in the direction that Lyons wanted, which I thought was a shame. The idea of people being manipulated and having alternate pathways does fit with the Seventh Doctor being a manipulator and the idea of the Doctor getting a taste of his own medicine for once, is quite an interesting idea (but sadly not developed enough in Part 4). I agree with the review above about the Quatermass feel (which ironically was used to inspire a lot of the Pertwee-era approaches). I also thought that there was an X-Files vibe to this, which probably linked to the 1990s setting. Certainly, had Doctor Who survived past-1989 this story could easily have been one we would have seen on TV (with Courtney no doubt having a cameo at some point!)
I did like the way that the story made subtle references to the other parts of the trilogy, but I would have been just as happy with an additional story for each Doctor. The development of UNIT is interesting and there is a distinct shift in approach between the three stories (perhaps reflecting the changing world of the 1980s to the mid-1990s). Although the story is dated as being 1994, I envisaged it as being earlier. Certainly, the stereotypical McKenna implied a more 80s vibe to me as by the 1990s, the Cold War mentality would have probably started to disappear and an older colonel (how I saw him) would have been pensioned off or quietly retired by this point. Perhaps not giving a definitive date would have been better here. Tennant's joke in 'School Reunion' to Sarah-Jane about the timing of their adventures is probably the better approach to take.
Wasn't quite sure what to make of Hopkins in this. In contrast the first two stories, he doesn't interact as much with the Doctor here. McCoy's Doctor is probably the best incarnation to deal with Hopkins at the end - Five would be too compassionate and Sixie would end up arguing, leaving the guy to rot is probably the best approach. Interesting that there is no 'definitive' end for Hopkins - I was surprised at that, which does leave the door open for a return (assuming Harrington would want to?)
Not as good as Hour of the Cybermen, but better than the Helliax Rift (still lots of loose ends there!).
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Post by eric009 on Nov 29, 2018 17:09:51 GMT
try it again Richard Gibson as Colonel McKenna was a let down must have been a cyberman in a former life same tone all the way thought ,he was better in Flip Flop as Mitchell
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 6, 2018 1:26:26 GMT
Man I just don't know. I liked all the Umbrella Man & Klein stuff but everything else just left me cold. Which is weird because usually I love anything Steve Lyons writes. I really don't see the purpose of this loose trilogy.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 6, 2018 17:18:50 GMT
Thinking about it further the more I feel like, with two releases left, this is the weakest MR release of the year and maybe the worst thing I’ve heard of BF this year.
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Post by Bazoolium on Dec 6, 2018 18:08:40 GMT
I kinda liked the story itself but I didn't think it took Daniel any further than we left him last time and massively underuses Klein. SHe's such a fascinating character that having most of her actions be ones that could be written for someone else is quite disappointing. Richard Gibson as Colonel McKenna was pretty bad. He delivered every line the same - the line at the end where he stands down from the brink of destruction is delivered as flatly as the rest of it. The character is supposed to be, as the others were, in two minds and conflicted over Ship's orders but it's all one note from him. You'd think being an 'Allo, 'Allo fave he'd know how to play things up but not here. The story would have been massively improved with different casting for him. Daniel can easily be picked up on again if the need/want arises and I must admit I thought things would be more final for him here. Klein got her happiest ending yet, but again one we can pick her up from in the future. I thought someone else would have mentioned what seemed, to me at least, to be quite strong Quatermass And The Pit echoes. A buried ship that exerts a psychic influence on humans after its alien crew are long dead? Only for a Doctor and the military to have to save the day. Hmm. even the name of Warlock's Cross is quite Hobb's End. Certainly seems quite strong in parallels to me. McCoy was pretty great. He seems to be more consistent when companion-less. He rolls his r's less in this whole story than in the opening 60 seconds of The New Adventures too. So, yeah - it was OK. Not sure it wrapped the arc up very well or that Klein was needed but the story itself was fun enough UNIT sci-fi. He must choose when to roll his Rs, I guess he thinks he should use it more when his Doctor is being more fun. Anyone know of all companionless stories happen at same time or are there gaps between Ace and Chris/Roz? I suppose there is Mags coming soon and that must be post Ace?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 20:58:41 GMT
Rather off topic, but each time I see "Warlock's Cross" heading the thread posts, I cannot help but think of this exchange:
WARLOCK: Don't blame Collins. Forced entry, sir.
NAMIN: This is outrageous.
WARLOCK: Call it what you like. I've a few questions to put to you.
NAMIN: All right, Collins.
(Collins leaves.)
NAMIN: So you have some questions?
WARLOCK: My name is Warlock. Doctor Warlock. I live in the village, and Professor Scarman is my oldest friend.
NAMIN: I am Ibrahim Namin.
WARLOCK: I know your name. It's your business that I am concerned with. Called at the lodge on my way up. Had a word with Scarman's brother, Laurence. He tells me you've had the infernal impudence to bar him from this house.
NAMIN: I am acting under instructions from Professor Scarman.
WARLOCK: I don't believe it.
NAMIN: I have his letter of authority. I have brought back from Egypt all the relics discovered by the Professor on his recent expedition. My orders are to store them safely and allow no one admittance to the Professor himself returns. That is an end to it, Doctor Warlock.
(Namin snatches the letter back from Warlock's hands.)
WARLOCK: Oh, no, sir. Not by a long chalk!
I cannot be the only one surely?
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Post by mrperson on Dec 6, 2018 22:18:51 GMT
So....at the end....the Doctor's the one influenced? This leads into another w/ him and Klein or did I catastrophically misunderstand?
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Post by mark687 on Dec 6, 2018 23:08:20 GMT
So....at the end....the Doctor's the one influenced? This leads into another w/ him and Klein or did I catastrophically misunderstand? No Klein picks up on the fact the Doctor's acting off, so the Presence leaves him, then tries to go for the Colonel but the Doctor convinces it to take all of itself back to the ship and leave, however this has the side effect of leaving Daniel a broken man, locked into repeating the 7 x Table.
Regards
mark687
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Post by mrperson on Dec 7, 2018 0:47:37 GMT
So....at the end....the Doctor's the one influenced? This leads into another w/ him and Klein or did I catastrophically misunderstand? No Klein picks up on the fact the Doctor's acting off, so the Presence leaves him, then tries to go for the Colonel but the Doctor convinces it to take all of itself back to the ship and leave, however this has the side effect of leaving Daniel a broken man, locked into repeating the 7 x Table.
Regards
mark687
But the last scene in the TARDIS?
Ok now this is embarrassing. I must have stopped the episode early. I thought it ended in the TARDIS after a conversation w/ Klein in which he said he had the power to back and prevent it all (while the whispering was going on in his head)
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Post by barnabaslives on Dec 7, 2018 15:05:37 GMT
Man I just don't know. I liked all the Umbrella Man & Klein stuff but everything else just left me cold. Which is weird because usually I love anything Steve Lyons writes. I really don't see the purpose of this loose trilogy. I'm not sure it's Steve Lyons' fault, I think they were all very good stories but I really don't see the point of introducing new and disappointing companions like Mathew or Daniel (who I really liked for awhile there) or a UNIT anniversary arc that somehow hasn't left me with a very good impression of UNIT. I'm not at all sure I like where the Main Range seems to be going with companions lately come to think of it. I was going to hold my tongue about it but I'm inferring that Static being followed up in the UNIT set might mean I shouldn't expect Constance and Flip back anytime soon if it all, which would probably be another disappointment for me, sorry to say. :-(
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Post by barnabaslives on Dec 7, 2018 18:58:22 GMT
I'm not at all sure I like where the Main Range seems to be going with companions lately come to think of it. Oh, see what happens when you say disparaging stuff like that, my forum status has suddenly been demoted from Doctor to Chancellery Guard. Very well, I'm proud to have spent my last moments as Doctor defending Adric, Nyssa, Tegan, Constance, Flip, Ace and Mel. :-)
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 7, 2018 20:50:22 GMT
Man I just don't know. I liked all the Umbrella Man & Klein stuff but everything else just left me cold. Which is weird because usually I love anything Steve Lyons writes. I really don't see the purpose of this loose trilogy. I'm not sure it's Steve Lyons' fault, I think they were all very good stories but I really don't see the point of introducing new and disappointing companions like Mathew or Daniel (who I really liked for awhile there) or a UNIT anniversary arc that somehow hasn't left me with a very good impression of UNIT. I'm not at all sure I like where the Main Range seems to be going with companions lately come to think of it. I was going to hold my tongue about it but I'm inferring that Static being followed up in the UNIT set might mean I shouldn't expect Constance and Flip back anytime soon if it all, which would probably be another disappointment for me, sorry to say. :-( I'm willing to bet Lyons was given a laundry list of things he needed to include but as Davy & I were chatting about in private, Klein could have been any generic companion. Generally I don't believe in being overly negative or going on & on about it but the more I think about this, the less I like it.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 7, 2018 23:05:25 GMT
I tbought this was ok. Not as vad as some of the reviews here has ked ne to expect, but ok.
I think Klein shoukd turn up in a UNIT boxset. Possibky Daniel but I'm not so sure about him
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 9:54:32 GMT
I'm not at all sure I like where the Main Range seems to be going with companions lately come to think of it. Oh, see what happens when you say disparaging stuff like that, my forum status has suddenly been demoted from Doctor to Chancellery Guard. Very well, I'm proud to have spent my last moments as Doctor defending Adric, Nyssa, Tegan, Constance, Flip, Ace and Mel. :-) I dont think its a demotion its a promotion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 9:56:53 GMT
Man I just don't know. I liked all the Umbrella Man & Klein stuff but everything else just left me cold. Which is weird because usually I love anything Steve Lyons writes. I really don't see the purpose of this loose trilogy. I'm not sure it's Steve Lyons' fault, I think they were all very good stories but I really don't see the point of introducing new and disappointing companions like Mathew or Daniel (who I really liked for awhile there) or a UNIT anniversary arc that somehow hasn't left me with a very good impression of UNIT. I'm not at all sure I like where the Main Range seems to be going with companions lately come to think of it. I was going to hold my tongue about it but I'm inferring that Static being followed up in the UNIT set might mean I shouldn't expect Constance and Flip back anytime soon if it all, which would probably be another disappointment for me, sorry to say. :-( I enjoy the companions mention and Mathew in particular-Lure of the Nomad is a very good story and i would have enjoyed a few adventures with Mathew as a companion before the twisted reveal in fact it would have made a great trilogy ending.But alas...was not to be
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