|
Post by number13 on Dec 4, 2018 11:03:21 GMT
Amazing, moving and wonderfully uber-weird episode!
The frog was the personification of the lonely, sentient Solitract universe which couldn't/hadn't formed into matter and felt so alone because of that.
I wanted so much for the 'fairytale' to end by the Doctor discovering that Universe was asleep and dreaming, then kissing the frog and waking it into a Big Bang making that Universe full of stars and planets. With the Doctor's farewell promise that now it had potential homes, Life would evolve throughout the new universe and the Solitract would never be alone again.
(And if that sounds too surreal an ending, I reply: another universe seen as a sentient frog through a mirror in Norway. I rest my case. )
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 11:47:01 GMT
Sudden revelation just occurred to me while drinking tea.
What if the Solitract is the timeless child?
In 'The Ghost Monument' the remnants' words to the Doctor were something along the lines of..
"You're afraid of your own newness. We see deep though. Further back. The timeless child. We see what's hidden - even from yourself. The outcast, abandoned and unknown."
Isn't it possible that when Granny 5 was telling the young Doctor the Gallifreyan folklore of the Solitract that it was described to her as the "timeless child"?
It would certainly explain why the Doctor looked so shocked - if the Remnants could see that far back into her memories then they could see every secret she holds. It perfectly describes the Solitract as well - a child (it was desperately eager to please first Erik, then Graham by giving them back their dead wives. Then it threw a tantrum when it was rejected), cast out before the birth of everything, abandoned in a pocket dimension and forgotten with the passage of time. Hidden from the Doctor until a doorway opened in a bedroom mirror in a log cabin in Norway.. 🤔🤯
|
|
|
Post by whiskeybrewer on Dec 4, 2018 15:23:47 GMT
A beautiful and strangely told tale. had some interesting touches and actually didnt feel abrupt in the slightest, which was the case with couple of episodes this series. and the end with Graham and Ryan
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 16:03:42 GMT
I loved the frog thing. That's part of the "no other show would do this..." greatness of the scenario. A flash of light, a postcard view...that's what other shows would do with this scenario. This was completely unafraid to have the frog even after the exploration of grief, and far from negate the seriousness, it completely complements it. It's ridiculous but it wasn't ridiculous to Grace, and the sentient Universe's understanding of her made it the most pleasing shape to take. Come to think of it "it's the most pleasing shape" is the exact reason Frobisher stays as a penguin so spinoff fans should appreciate that even more. Also don't get the "it should be Susan" thing. In the most continuity free version of the show we've had in decades...bringing Susan back? Nah. That would be more out there than any frog. When even Moffat didn't do that sort of thing and he loves the continuity refs more than anyone, anyone even considering Susan to make her second appearance in 53 years was on a hiding to nothing. And sorry Timelord, your idea of Susan's Alex being a better idea is even worse than bring Susan back. The notion they'd put in an audio only character for this story is so far away from anything this show would even consider doing I'd bet my last penny they could have brainstormed the ep for a week and not thought "Got it! The Doctor's dead grandson from a handful of audios nearly a decade ago..." Yep. & also the Solitract knew that the Doctor knew how it was attempting to trick people into staying with it. So why try the same trick with someone who knows this?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 16:04:43 GMT
So moving from a discussion about annoying fandom to a discussion about annoying fandom, several people on reddit say instead of Universe-Frog, the Conciousness should've taken on the form of Susan. Because if you're trying to get an ancient alien to like you and stay with you, why bare yourself in a form you like, when you can potentially massively upset and offend them by wearing the mask of a dead grandchild? I've read that the frog 'should have been' Missy. Anyway, I look forward to seeing this episode on Wednesday, with no distractions! It seems to me as if the latter half of the series is stronger than the first. Where did you read this?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 16:38:16 GMT
It was a comment on a YouTube trailer for the next episode, I think.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 19:12:14 GMT
It was a comment on a YouTube trailer for the next episode, I think. AHH ok. More gossip I think.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 19:44:37 GMT
It was a comment on a YouTube trailer for the next episode, I think. AHH ok. More gossip I think. Well you asked me where I read it, I'm just telling you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 20:18:00 GMT
AHH ok. More gossip I think. Well you asked me where I read it, I'm just telling you. Yeah no problems. Just wondered if it was from a valid source. Turns out not.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 20:22:30 GMT
Well you asked me where I read it, I'm just telling you. Yeah no problems. Just wondered if it was from a valid source. Turns out not. Got you.
|
|
bobod
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 2,759
|
Post by bobod on Dec 4, 2018 21:36:23 GMT
I think Paz was meaning someone said 'it should have been' as in they 'wished it were' rather than 'it was supposed to be'.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 21:54:31 GMT
I think Paz was meaning someone said 'it should have been' as in they 'wished it were' rather than 'it was supposed to be'. Cheers, bobod , that's what I meant to imply. Sorry for any confusion.
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 4, 2018 22:16:52 GMT
Another point for Childs: having everything be flipped in the mirror universe. That's a neat bit of detail and thought he put in.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 4, 2018 22:38:24 GMT
Inthink the best choice for Solitract would have been... the kid who played the Doctor as a child in Listen. In effect, the Doctor talkingbto a version ot themself Who hasn’t had adventures yet. The very child Granny 5 told the stories to.
|
|
|
Post by agentten on Dec 4, 2018 23:13:46 GMT
I think the choice to go with the frog shows that the Solitract is actually taking its first steps toward maturity. After its tantrums fail, it seems to recognize that trying to deceive and cajole aren't going to win it anything lasting. Had it then tried to appear to the Doctor as someone she was separated from and might long to be with again such as Susan, Rose, River, or even Granny 5, it would have just been another trick. Instead, it appears to have learned something about relationships and chooses to represent that by acknowledging the meaningful nature of the necklace that Graham wears. At first it seems so bonkers for the Doctor to be talking to a frog, but it may be one of the most meaningful choices the script makes.
Fabulous episode.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 9:29:18 GMT
I think Paz was meaning someone said 'it should have been' as in they 'wished it were' rather than 'it was supposed to be'. Cheers, bobod , that's what I meant to imply. Sorry for any confusion. Ah. I see. Actually I misinterpreted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 12:12:45 GMT
Cheers, bobod , that's what I meant to imply. Sorry for any confusion. Ah. I see. Actually I misinterpreted. I should have made things clearer
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 13:41:48 GMT
Finally seen this and for the second week I have to say, what an utterly superb tale. The team of regulars are great, fully 'gelled' and extremely likeable. Possible under-writing has made it a while before I've fully felt comfortable with them - or maybe it has been a deliberately slow-burning evolution. Whatever, they have a real sense of cohesion, consistency and I hope not one of them leaves any time soon. Big, soft, gentle Ryan; lovely, optimistic Yaz (whom I still don't think we know enough about) and poor, funny Graham.
The episode looks terrific. Such beautiful scenery is conveyed really well by Director Jamie Childs - not only the Nordic panoramas but the (presumed) studio sets too. Not only is Segun Akinola's score wonderful (I can't review an episode without pointing this out), but this week he lends a kind of Norse flavour the music. I love it that his ambient musical drone blends with the sound effects in the background to help extend the atmospherics; you're not sure where one ends and the other begins.
Why is it the more I enjoy an episode, the less it rates (Wikipedia has the AI at 80 for this - not bad, but surely it should be higher; possibly the talking frog was too much for some). On the subject of that, how can a computer-enhanced amphibian on a chair in the middle of nowhere be so utterly heart-breaking? That and Graham's dilemma with his dead wife made this, for me, the most emotional episode since, what, The Angels Take Manhatten?
It Takes You Away. It Blew Me Away. Absolutely brilliant.
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Dec 5, 2018 21:39:13 GMT
It pointlessly went a tad far with the frog thing. I get it, I do, but it was gratuitous at that point.
Have it be a shining room or glorious view or something....just not because I like your frogs hehe
I thought it was great but.....eh... there you go. 4/5 or 5/5.... (these really need to be out of 10) ?
"Because I like frogs" was what made it endearing to me. It injected a lot of personality into something that could have been boring or underwhelming. I understand what you're saying. In the moment it struck me as rather odd, almost forced quirkiness. I did end up voting 5/5, so it didn't strike me as some big fault. Just sort of ....eh..
If anything was weirder it was the idea of "a conscious universe". The frog was more of a "wait.... what?" moment.
|
|
|
Post by newt5996 on Dec 6, 2018 16:44:54 GMT
Yes I am late to the party so to speak on commenting but as it's exams week you will have to forgive me for not commenting. It Takes You Away scratched a Virgin New Adventures itch for me this week partially due to the high concept nature of the frog as God (I could easily see this episode connected to The Also People and that's a high compliment as The People are such a fun concept). I think some of the direction could be better as the lower light scenes were a bit difficult to see what was going on in a while, but the episode was a lot of fun.
|
|