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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 24, 2018 1:52:07 GMT
Since it's creeped into a few discussions on here in recent weeks, might as well get this one out in the open: I think Who videos on YT, primarily concerning Series 11, have descended into a dumpster fire. Liking or not liking the show is fine and respectable, just look at reactions on here, but the lengths some are going to to frame simply not finding the show to their tastes as some sort of guerra santa can't be healthy. These people aren't joking or satirizing: they legitmately mean this notion that Who is sure to crash and Chibnall 'faiiled' and Jodie 'failed' because 'politics' and what can be generously termed as 'readings' of the ratings to mean negative outcomes. (Even though several of these indivudals don;t live in the Uk and have a limited grasp of what the TV landscape is like here, much less how BARB works).
Yes, obviously cranks are nothing new to fandom, but it seems to have gotten supercharged lately. The question is why? Why this series, why this Doctor?
What are the unforgivable, wholly unique crimes here that you could not level at pretty much every other era of the franchise's history? Mediocre stories here or there? hardly new. Unsubtle political commentary? paging Bob Holmes, Andrew Cartmel and Mac Hulke. Uncomfortable historical periods? Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve and Aztecs say hi. Educational emphasis and aiming more towards kids? Take it up with Syd, Donald, Bunny, David and Verity. Limited appeals to the lore and continuity? There were long stretches of Classic and Wilderness Who were the Doctor never met old villains. Ratings fluctuations? Almost all NuWho had midseries dips and even the vaunted Tennant era only cracked the 10+mill mark on special occassions. 6s, 7s and 8s were the norms: if you think the Beeb thought Jodie could guarantee 10mill every week and that was their mark of success... yeah no.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 24, 2018 5:20:23 GMT
I'm in complete agreement here. We've had maybe three seasons out of 37 that were arguably excellent television all the way through without a dud episode or story in them. The show has had people complaining about the quality of the latest episode and how it wasn't as good as it used to be since November 30 1963. There's complaints about it being too political and PC yet there were almost no murmurs about The Happiness Patrol containing a character who might as well have been Margaret Thatcher dying horribly. I've spoken about it before but the "fan" reaction to Deadly Assassin is amazingly modern in the way it deals with the current show runners having no clue or "reverence" about the history of the show or what sort of stories it should be telling. Laughable monsters, risible villains, appalling special effects, cliched dialogue and embarrassing costumes are as much a part of the show's legacy as "Have I the right?" or "Go forth in your beliefs..."
I would say that the reason for it seeming worse now than before is that we have the same negative reaction to a new doctor, plus the idea of it being a woman is more change than a lot of people are willing to cope with. I'm totally ok with criticism of a performance or mocking the choice with gags about the actors' previous work (Capaldi's Malcolm Tucker Doctor, Davison's Doctor taking the temperature of space monsters, etc) because that's fair game (predictable and boring, but fair). However the repetitive cries about women drivers (forgetting the first 25 years of the show where the doctor could barely control his ship), bras in the TARDIS, nurses were just hateful and infantile. I know there were a lot of people who were against the change on what we're pretty reasonable grounds but there were a lot - A LOT - of really borderline malicious and spiteful comments made.
,there's also the idea that in our modern world everyone has a voice and "nobodies" can be listened to as much as experts and be taken just as seriously. People get used to that equality that we get a lot of on the internet but are unprepared to apply it in real life yet.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 24, 2018 10:26:56 GMT
However the repetitive cries about women drivers (forgetting the first 25 years of the show where the doctor could barely control his ship), bras in the TARDIS, nurses were just hateful and infantile. I know there were a lot of people who were against the change on what we're pretty reasonable grounds but there were a lot - A LOT - of really borderline malicious and spiteful comments made. ,there's also the idea that in our modern world everyone has a voice and "nobodies" can be listened to as much as experts and be taken just as seriously. People get used to that equality that we get a lot of on the internet but are unprepared to apply it in real life yet. It's the pseudo-intellectual spin on the spite that really gets me: I may not agree often with Bob Chipman (moviebob) but he made a legit point in a recent video where he argued there's a problem in geekdom where people are trying their hardest to make their subjective opinions into some sort of objective impirical data they can feed into an algorithmn to show they are unquestionably right. In Who's case, use the ratings trend (ignoring all the context of how everyone in TV is down and what we've been compteing with) to back up their dislike of stories.
It's like some of these people conviniently forget about Netflix and Amazon when it suits them. We're not just competing with ITV and 4 anymore.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Nov 24, 2018 11:32:12 GMT
I love the Rosa Marguilles reactions to this latest series. Her one on Arachnids in the UK was brilliant
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,659
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 24, 2018 11:53:55 GMT
yet there were almost no murmurs about The Happiness Patrol containing a character who might as well have been Margaret Thatcher dying horribly. Not Helen A, though. Wasn’t she was left mourning over Fifi, in one of THE best McCoy-era pieces of acting?! Yes, you're right: I haven't seen THP for yonks. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 12:06:34 GMT
yet there were almost no murmurs about The Happiness Patrol containing a character who might as well have been Margaret Thatcher dying horribly. Not Helen A, though. Wasn’t she was left mourning over Fifi, in one of THE best McCoy-era pieces of acting?! An astonishing scene, and one that gets to me even now. Its not often that Doctor Who at its most fantastical can be so emotionally powerful. A woman dressed as a stick of candyfloss mourning a not very convincing puppet - and yet it is mesmerising.
As for various YouTubers and their spite - its just another variation of the kind of high-handed bedroom philosophers trying to push their personal dislike as the unmasking of some political agenda, a modern day version of those people who produced fanzines in the 80s that went to extraordinary lengths to dismiss the show. The internet gives these people what they believe is status and a platform. They should listen to The Man Who Destroyed Torchwood from the latest boxset! It is unpleasant viewing, as are the comments that vilify them, but it is just alternative opinions, I suppose. One reason this series attracts that kind of thing is that it is a success, broadly speaking, and that success doesn't sit well with some! Cobblers to 'em.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 13:00:22 GMT
Not Helen A, though. Wasn’t she was left mourning over Fifi, in one of THE best McCoy-era pieces of acting?! An astonishing scene, and one that gets to me even now. Its not often that Doctor Who at its most fantastical can be so emotionally powerful. A woman dressed as a stick of candyfloss mourning a not very convincing puppet - and yet it is mesmerising. Serious props to the production team for not only giving the villain a character arc, but just the right level of humanity to trigger your empathy at the end. A Thatcher pastiche, sure, but still a human being. I really love the whole ethos behind The Happiness Patrol, I love that it's all about how understanding sadness is a healthy part of being happy. Adult, yet hopeful. I don't even notice that Terra Alpha's golf carts seem to run on the same 1 horsepower engines that the Varosian security cards do.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 13:29:34 GMT
An astonishing scene, and one that gets to me even now. Its not often that Doctor Who at its most fantastical can be so emotionally powerful. A woman dressed as a stick of candyfloss mourning a not very convincing puppet - and yet it is mesmerising. Serious props to the production team for not only giving the villain a character arc, but just the right level of humanity to trigger your empathy at the end. A Thatcher pastiche, sure, but still a human being. I really love the whole ethos behind The Happiness Patrol, I love that it's all about how understanding sadness is a healthy part of being happy. Adult, yet hopeful. I don't even notice that Terra Alpha's golf carts seem to run on the same 1 horsepower engines that the Varosian security cards do.
Some say The Happiness Patrol should have ended on that scene with Helen A. And I can see that. But I can also see why the production team, or Graeme Curry, went for a more upbeat ending. Either way, it's one heck of a story.
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Post by kinghumble on Nov 24, 2018 22:00:01 GMT
Yeah. The YouTube videos and comments by all them haters are showing a level of vitriol that's blinding. I saw one by this American woman, hating on Jodie Whittaker, ranting, way-over-the-top - and then she stops her cussing mid-sentence to say, "By the way, SNOWFLAKES, sorry if me EXPRESSING my thoughts and feelings causes you to MELTDOWN." And she cackles at the thought of 13-fans having a meltdown or something, before going back to her ranting and raving
Sometimes the hypocrisy you just want to smash someone's face into a mirror, I swear, in the hopes of getting them to spend a half-second on self-reflection.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 25, 2018 9:08:01 GMT
Haha, how sad that a certain troll was banned from this forum, he could have shed some light on this from personal experience...  I have to admit I have been keeping away from flame wars and toxic hatred recently and when I see it on social media or youtube, I try my best to ignore it and click on. I have tried to argue with certain types of people, but that does not get you anywhere (except an asylum possibly). If I want this type of behaviour, I honestly just go to work, where I can experience toxic people in glorious 3D. I think the only Doctor Who related Youtubers I follow right now are Council of Geeks (I do not agree with everything he says, but the calm and sensible way he makes his points impresses me; funnily enough, he just uploaded a video talking about this topic), Stubagful (for my dose of the sarcastic and cynical, plus he also raises some good points) and the Host Productions (although he is still very young and overly enthusiastic). I do not have the time and the mental capacity to deal with flaming hatred and also avoid overly argumentative comment sections. That said, I am actually surprised that the wave of toxic hatred towards series 11 was not as bad as I had expected, at least judging from my social media feeds. Yes, there still is hatred there, but most people are at least cautiously positive. But that might just be me having tailored my feed to my preferences. I am really very happy that I found this forum to be honest. It is like an oasis and it is just enjoyable to hang out with the people here. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 11:00:32 GMT
Most of the ones i have seen have been reasonable apart from Bowlestrek who is a very very pathetic man (i really want to use the c word but we gotta keep it PG) as are the comentors in his comment section (i sometimes look at it if im playing an angry character as it helps rile me up 😂) ugg he is so annoying
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Nov 25, 2018 21:42:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 6:26:44 GMT
Haha, how sad that a certain troll was banned from this forum, he could have shed some light on this from personal experience... I have to admit I have been keeping away from flame wars and toxic hatred recently and when I see it on social media or youtube, I try my best to ignore it and click on. I have tried to argue with certain types of people, but that does not get you anywhere (except an asylum possibly). If I want this type of behaviour, I honestly just go to work, where I can experience toxic people in glorious 3D. I think the only Doctor Who related Youtubers I follow right now are Council of Geeks (I do not agree with everything he says, but the calm and sensible way he makes his points impresses me; funnily enough, he just uploaded a video talking about this topic), Stubagful (for my dose of the sarcastic and cynical, plus he also raises some good points) and the Host Productions (although he is still very young and overly enthusiastic). I do not have the time and the mental capacity to deal with flaming hatred and also avoid overly argumentative comment sections. That said, I am actually surprised that the wave of toxic hatred towards series 11 was not as bad as I had expected, at least judging from my social media feeds. Yes, there still is hatred there, but most people are at least cautiously positive. But that might just be me having tailored my feed to my preferences. I am really very happy that I found this forum to be honest. It is like an oasis and it is just enjoyable to hang out with the people here. yes forum at least tries to be reasonable I have filled in my complaint form and sent it off 🤪 |
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Post by Bazoolium on Nov 26, 2018 13:57:21 GMT
I feel that you could add JNT to the list and the form still works. On a completely unrelated note, what would Hinchcliffe's nickname be? Hinch? The Cliffster? |
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,659
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Post by shutupbanks on Nov 26, 2018 18:41:01 GMT
I feel that you could add JNT to the list and the form still works. On a completely unrelated note, what would Hinchcliffe's nickname be? Hinch? The Cliffster? PHinchcliffe. |
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Post by Bazoolium on Jan 27, 2019 16:04:07 GMT
These videos keep popping up as suggestions for me, it's very annoying. Every now and then I watch one to see what they have to say and it's just the same old rubbish. I just watched one where the creator suggested that Jodie took the part to purposefully destroy the show. How on earth could anyone think that? It's just mad. They seem to pick apart any tiny soundbite that she says, without actually defending their stance or backing up their claims.
It's one think to dislike the show, but good god, why would you bother putting so much effort into something you hate. Apparently Brie Larson is terrible too, I must have missed that one and I learnt a new word Shill, so I guess that's being widely used now.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 27, 2019 18:07:53 GMT
These videos keep popping up as suggestions for me, it's very annoying. Every now and then I watch one to see what they have to say and it's just the same old rubbish. I just watched one where the creator suggested that Jodie took the part to purposefully destroy the show. How on earth could anyone think that? It's just mad. They seem to pick apart any tiny soundbite that she says, without actually defending their stance or backing up their claims. It's one think to dislike the show, but good god, why would you bother putting so much effort into something you hate. Apparently Brie Larson is terrible too, I must have missed that one and I learnt a new word Shill, so I guess that's being widely used now.Yeah, I know.  Pretty much sours Youtube when these verbal derailments appear as "recommended" videos.
If I had rats or cockroaches at my place, I could play these as toxic pest control.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jan 27, 2019 21:39:07 GMT
Hello again.
Just out curiosity and with my new knowledge of Classic Who I'd love to know Shutupbanks, your selection of the top three seasons out of 37.
P.S Happiness will prevail, the quest is the quest, Eldrad must live and answers on a postcard please can anybody help me rid myself of that earworm 'The Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon'?
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,659
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 28, 2019 0:39:32 GMT
Hello again. Just out curiosity and with my new knowledge of Classic Who I'd love to know Shutupbanks, your selection of the top three seasons out of 37. I'd argue that Seasons 7, 14 and (revived) Series 4 are the ones that can be sat through without a story that really makes you worry about the state of television at the time of production. They seem to get the most love from fandom at any rate. Obviously YMMV, but they're the ones that most people seem to enjoy as pieces of entertainment. Every other series has a story that lets the side down but those three carry the least amount of baggage as pieces of television (politics aside, of course). Other people will have different opinions but, for me at least, each one of those seasons comes as close to "each episode/ story works" as the show gets. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 5:01:56 GMT
'Nobody hates Doctor Who as much as Doctor Who fans.' - Gary Russell.
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