|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 1, 2018 0:59:29 GMT
Usuaully in discussion of horror, mostly in modern movies, these are often the go-to-whipping boy of laziness. But do you think this is always the case, or do you think jump scares have a valid reason to be there and can be legitimately good?
|
|
|
Post by jasonward on Dec 1, 2018 1:06:04 GMT
Even if they were in all cases 100% born out of laziness, why would they automatically also be (using the mirror of your language) invalid, illegitimate and bad?. They wouldn't, so by definition yes they can be valid, legitimate and good.
|
|
|
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Dec 1, 2018 1:15:55 GMT
I enjoy them. Been an avid horror movie fan for about 35 years now. All types of scares I enjoy, it's about how effective they make it in context to the movie
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2018 5:45:33 GMT
There are definitely some stunningly clever ones out there, particularly in the realms of video games nowadays. One of the best I've seen -- I won't mention where it's from, for spoilers -- is actually part of the environment from the moment you step through into the room. What makes it work is that you don't notice it until you've been given enough information from the rest of the level. It doesn't leap out at you literally, but conscientiously instead.
|
|
|
Post by glutamodo on Dec 1, 2018 5:53:42 GMT
I think they do if they serve the storytelling - even cheap throwaway ones, they allow them to craft a mood - little punctuation marks here and there can really make that which surrounds them work better. (but yes, they can be abused, downgraded into rubbish - it comes down to good direction of good writing) Not that I really like "horror" that much, so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much.
Then again, back in the day, I think my favorite sci-fi movie was Aliens, which I saw early on in the theatrical run... (and I had not yet seen the original at that point), in the end, that movie was largely action/adventure, but it did have some slower scenes and a couple of points where I about jumped out of my seat in surprise and I think this is a good example of using such in a good way.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Dec 1, 2018 8:35:48 GMT
Only in the right places, sound or music is what i find more scary, take Friday The 13th you have the most memorable final jump scare saved for the climax done to maximum effect all heightened by Harry Manfredini atmospheric musix score now if you removed the "Ki Ma" the film wouldn't be half as scary.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2018 10:54:26 GMT
I think jump scares definitely have a place in horror. And now for the achingly obvious statement - as long as they are done well, and the fiction doesn't rely solely upon them to create an atmosphere. If they work, the reaction is wonderful - and even if they don't, they can sometimes be effective. A scene at the end of the 1976 film Carrie never fails to make me jump a mile high. And I love it. If you can pull of a moment like that, then the scene stays with you. Job done! If you have a film ful of scenes like that, the effect is lessened each time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2018 11:11:21 GMT
yes.
|
|
|
Post by whiskeybrewer on Dec 4, 2018 14:42:58 GMT
They do they just need to be used right
|
|
|
Post by Jeedai on Dec 4, 2018 18:39:37 GMT
They have a place right next to that SURPRISE CAT!
|
|
|
Post by omega on Dec 4, 2018 19:16:09 GMT
I think they do if they serve the storytelling - even cheap throwaway ones, they allow them to craft a mood - little punctuation marks here and there can really make that which surrounds them work better. (but yes, they can be abused, downgraded into rubbish - it comes down to good direction of good writing) Not that I really like "horror" that much, so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much.
Then again, back in the day, I think my favorite sci-fi movie was Aliens, which I saw early on in the theatrical run... (and I had not yet seen the original at that point), in the end, that movie was largely action/adventure, but it did have some slower scenes and a couple of points where I about jumped out of my seat in surprise and I think this is a good example of using such in a good way.
Aliens gave me a proper jump scare, when the face hugger attacks the side of the tank it’s in.
|
|
|
Post by muckypup on Dec 4, 2018 20:09:55 GMT
Just watch the haunting of hill house to see that the answer is defiantly yes.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 4:06:42 GMT
Only in the right places, sound or music is what i find more scary, take Friday The 13th you have the most memorable final jump scare saved for the climax done to maximum effect all heightened by Harry Manfredini atmospheric musix score now if you removed the "Ki Ma" the film wouldn't be half as scary. Jaws has a really brilliant one similarly tied into sound: {Spoiler}Throughout the film, the shark's presence can always be felt through the soundtrack. The creature is pretty much synonymous with that iconic tune. But there is one instance where the film deliberately leaves us in the dark about its presence. When it emerges from the water, it's a hell of a shock for all involved and somehow that makes the shark even more powerful as a result. It doesn't have to follow the film's pre-established conventions, it can cheat and have a scare both ways. I tend to be in the camp that enjoy a slow build up of tension (e.g. the Cyber-signal from The Invasion dropping people in the street), but sometimes a well-devised jump can really get you just when the story needs it. There's a real skill to the truly memorable ones.
|
|
|
Post by agentten on Dec 5, 2018 5:25:23 GMT
They do, but unfortunately, not all makers of horror films can distinguish between different types of scares. A jump scare is there to relieve a bit of tension so that tension can be built up again in an even more intense way. The jump scare in the second act of Alien when the alien takes one of the crew after a long build up exists to relieve the tension of the scene but also create a memory of what can happen when the alien finds you so that we fear more for the surviving characters later in the film. A good jump scare puts its tension in the bank and then reaps the interest later in the story. Generally, jump scares work best in the first two acts but have little place by the third act because the film's tension should already, by that point, be long past the jump scare stage. Sadly, some filmmakers build an entire film around jump scares, The Nun for example, but the problem with that is first of all, the audience gets wise to it after three or four jumps and learns not to be as scared - thus giving you diminishing returns, and second, they're exhausting to the audience. Being constantly scared like that over ninety minutes actually gets wearisome. Without a longer term sense of dread or terror to reinforce the scares, such as the existential dread of The Exorcist or The Thing, then the jump scares just become annoying.
|
|
|
Post by omega on Dec 5, 2018 5:50:34 GMT
What’s more effective, even it may only work once, is the realisation that something bad is there. A good example is people in the dark, and and one of them says they’re holding the other’s hand. Naturally this is not the case, and may be the monster or a corpse. Even using this to indicate lack of feeling can be eerie, like in Scherzo where the Doctor and Charley squeeze their hardest but the other only feels the slightest of sensations.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 5, 2018 6:16:00 GMT
I think they do if they serve the storytelling - even cheap throwaway ones, they allow them to craft a mood - little punctuation marks here and there can really make that which surrounds them work better. (but yes, they can be abused, downgraded into rubbish - it comes down to good direction of good writing) Not that I really like "horror" that much, so maybe my opinion doesn't mean much.
Then again, back in the day, I think my favorite sci-fi movie was Aliens, which I saw early on in the theatrical run... (and I had not yet seen the original at that point), in the end, that movie was largely action/adventure, but it did have some slower scenes and a couple of points where I about jumped out of my seat in surprise and I think this is a good example of using such in a good way.
Aliens gave me a proper jump scare, when the face hugger attacks the side of the tank it’s in. Alien does a great jump scare with Jones the Cat, followed by a great use of darkness and stillness to reveal only once you realise its there the Alien itself.
|
|
|
Post by omega on Dec 5, 2018 6:58:02 GMT
Aliens gave me a proper jump scare, when the face hugger attacks the side of the tank it’s in. Alien does a great jump scare with Jones the Cat, followed by a great use of darkness and stillness to reveal only once you realise its there the Alien itself. When it blends in so perfectly with the hanging chains that you wouldn't see it unless you were specifically looking for it. Sometimes the best scares are the retroactive ones. The novel Jurassic Park The Lost World has a great one where it's revealed that an area the protagonists have been traversing a lot is actually Carnosaur territory. There is are a couple of terrifying ones in the first novel, one where the characters in the computer room realise the park has been on auxilary power since it first went out (which means the raptors are out) and another where they recalibrate the dinosaur counter (it'd capped at the expected number) and the rising numbers instill a sense of dread when the characters realise just how much the dinos had bred. The books delve into horror a lot more than the films do. Heck, the 2011 TellTale game has plenty of horror elements, especially where the Troodon are concerned.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Dec 5, 2018 8:32:21 GMT
Only in the right places, sound or music is what i find more scary, take Friday The 13th you have the most memorable final jump scare saved for the climax done to maximum effect all heightened by Harry Manfredini atmospheric musix score now if you removed the "Ki Ma" the film wouldn't be half as scary. Jaws has a really brilliant one similarly tied into sound: {Spoiler}Throughout the film, the shark's presence can always be felt through the soundtrack. The creature is pretty much synonymous with that iconic tune. But there is one instance where the film deliberately leaves us in the dark about its presence. When it emerges from the water, it's a hell of a shock for all involved and somehow that makes the shark even more powerful as a result. It doesn't have to follow the film's pre-established conventions, it can cheat and have a scare both ways. I tend to be in the camp that enjoy a slow build up of tension (e.g. the Cyber-signal from The Invasion dropping people in the street), but sometimes a well-devised jump can really get you just when the story needs it. There's a real skill to the truly memorable ones. Yeah Jaws theme has to be one of the most simple iconic music cues to create a atmospheric jump scare in movies, the scene the shark attacks Hooper in the cage always makes me jump.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 8:49:35 GMT
Jaws has a really brilliant one similarly tied into sound: {Spoiler}Throughout the film, the shark's presence can always be felt through the soundtrack. The creature is pretty much synonymous with that iconic tune. But there is one instance where the film deliberately leaves us in the dark about its presence. When it emerges from the water, it's a hell of a shock for all involved and somehow that makes the shark even more powerful as a result. It doesn't have to follow the film's pre-established conventions, it can cheat and have a scare both ways. I tend to be in the camp that enjoy a slow build up of tension (e.g. the Cyber-signal from The Invasion dropping people in the street), but sometimes a well-devised jump can really get you just when the story needs it. There's a real skill to the truly memorable ones. Yeah Jaws theme has to be one of the most simple iconic music cues to create a atmospheric jump scare in movies, the scene the shark attacks Hooper in the cage always makes me jump. Same! There's something about absolute silence in film that makes the hairs on the back of the neck stand on end. You don't hear it too often, so when it happens, the scene suddenly becomes very claustrophobic and breathless. Reminds me of something else too, I can't remember if this is myth or fact, but the sound that the Reapers make in Mass Effect was devised from researching which frequencies triggered a panic response in human beings. The low-pitched growl of a wild thing's aggression and the high-pitched scream of something in danger. Really visceral foley jammed together into the airhorn from hell. It was one of my least favourite things to hear over the course of the games, it got me every single time.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Dec 5, 2018 14:02:15 GMT
Yeah Jaws theme has to be one of the most simple iconic music cues to create a atmospheric jump scare in movies, the scene the shark attacks Hooper in the cage always makes me jump. Same! There's something about absolute silence in film that makes the hairs on the back of the neck stand on end. You don't hear it too often, so when it happens, the scene suddenly becomes very claustrophobic and breathless. Reminds me of something else too, I can't remember if this is myth or fact, but the sound that the Reapers make in Mass Effect was devised from researching which frequencies triggered a panic response in human beings. The low-pitched growl of a wild thing's aggression and the high-pitched scream of something in danger. Really visceral foley jammed together into the airhorn from hell. It was one of my least favourite things to hear over the course of the games, it got me every single time. The reapers sounded terrifying, it definitely made the game more intense.
|
|