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Post by eric009 on Jan 19, 2019 13:51:47 GMT
Just for fun
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 19, 2019 14:50:22 GMT
I did not think it was too bad and I actually enjoyed parts of it.
I do get all the criticism levelled against it however.
It certainly is not Shakespeare.
Not being a native speaker, the accents were grating, yes, but not atrocious to me. In my opinion, much worse atrocities have been commited by Big Finish, in butchering the German language in such a way, that I have no clue what the supposed German words are supposed to mean- which completely breaks my immerson every single time. At a guess, other foreign languages might suffer the same fate, but I cannot really judge that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 14:59:43 GMT
I went with 'so-so' as it's not that bad, but it does have some strange elements to it. I didn't mind the accents or the orgy bit, but I did think Minuet In Hell was way too long. Plus, the Eighth Doctor losing his memory sub-plot was a big yawn for me after the events in the BBC EDA novels. We will never get a Doctor Who Main Range story as adult themed as this again so it's a pity the story wasted an opportunity for an interesting dark take on Doctor Who. Minuet In Hell tried to be different and it most certainly was, I just wish the story had been a bit more enjoyable.
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Post by eric009 on Jan 19, 2019 16:08:54 GMT
the only reason I put so so is the Brig is in it
if he not been it would be tried it once never again
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Post by eric009 on Jan 19, 2019 16:14:59 GMT
It certainly is not Shakespeare. sounds like the monkeys in the typing pool miss this time  |
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 19, 2019 16:28:15 GMT
It certainly is not Shakespeare. sounds like the monkeys in the typing pool miss this time What can I say... maybe I am not that difficult to please. Or more likely, my taste is weird.
But to be honest, it is not the worst Big Finish has done. Exile anyone? |
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Post by eric009 on Jan 19, 2019 16:45:21 GMT
Exile is for me hard for me to put a fair viewpoint as i never had a pint of beer as for being in pub last time as 1963(my dad took me and my brother to Everton football match he was very upset with me as I did not like football as I told him I wanted to go home and not watch 22 people kicking a ball around a field )the week after I got to stay at home and watch the repeat of unearthly child and the rest, as they say, is history
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Post by elkawho on Jan 19, 2019 17:00:02 GMT
For me this is the worst thing Big Finish has ever made. The only audio that I turned off without finishing and have no desire to ever hear again. What makes it worse for me is that is should have been terrific. Eight, The Brig (who was completely wasted in this one), the dark side of American politics.
I'm sure I have ranted on about this before. But everything about this story is wrong. Maybe because I'm an American it bothers me more. There could not be a "new state" in the way it was described in the story.That and the idea of calling it Malebolgia takes me out of the story immediately. "Ooo, you think this is a bad place?" The accents are horrendous, the use of Charley in this story is insulting, the Doctor losing his memory is a cop out, and he does so little in this story. As I said, a great character like the Brig is completely wasted. I am no prude, but the orgy scene does bother me.
Yes, Exile is bad and I will probably never listen to it again, but I could see what they were trying to do, they just missed the mark. I find Nekromantia boring as hell. But this one is just completely wrong in every way.
Interestingly though, there was that one podcast where Ran came up with this one and Nick proceeded to talk about how hard it was to make and the problems associated with it. I found it fascinating. It didn't change my about the story, but it softened my opinion regarding the making of it. I've heard that the original AV story was pretty good. I'd give that a shot some time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 18:53:12 GMT
I cannot lie, I enjoy listening to this. I'm from the UK, so that may be why I have no real problem with dodgy accents - occasional subsequent releases have been worse offenders, I feel - and the slightly more adult themes (primarily the orgy scene) seemed simply a way of separating the ongoing Eighth Doctor stories from earlier Doctor's eras. I liked the 'big sweaty red demon' and found Becky Lee to be a lot of fun. It's not all great, I'll admit - it is a little overlong, but it was great to have him around. All in all, I think this is a good release. It's my second favourite from McGann's initial run of four (only Sword of Orion was better, I thought).
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 19, 2019 19:04:21 GMT
I cannot lie, I enjoy listening to this. I'm from the UK, so that may be why I have no real problem with dodgy accents - occasional subsequent releases have been worse offenders, I feel - and the slightly more adult themes (primarily the orgy scene) seemed simply a way of separating the ongoing Eighth Doctor stories from earlier Doctor's eras. I liked the 'big sweaty red demon' and found Becky Lee to be a lot of fun. It's not all great, I'll admit - it is a little overlong, but it was great to have him around. All in all, I think this is a good release. It's my second favourite from McGann's initial run of four (only Sword of Orion was better, I thought). We seem to have a similar taste.  I also loved Sword of Orion by the way...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 19:55:21 GMT
I did not think it was too bad and I actually enjoyed parts of it. I do get all the criticism levelled against it however. It certainly is not Shakespeare. Not being a native speaker, the accents were grating, yes, but not atrocious to me. In my opinion, much worse atrocities have been commited by Big Finish, in butchering the German language in such a way, that I have no clue what the supposed German words are supposed to mean- which completely breaks my immerson every single time. At a guess, other foreign languages might suffer the same fate, but I cannot really judge that. Funny enough - I am currently as I type watching an episode of 'Maigret' with Michael Gambon (Dumbledore) in the lead. Everyone is delivering in Home Counties English accents as if it was a Joan Hickson Miss Marple 'English Heritage' production. I wondered about the lack of any attempt at accents, then thought 'Its made after Allo Allo'. That really killed off English actors doing ' Le French and Ze Germans' caricature accents outside of comedy. At least modern TV 'Who' seeks out genuine American actors these days for suitable supporting roles. The Classic series had its own exhibits - Claws of Axos & Bill Filer anyone? |
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 19, 2019 20:15:27 GMT
I did not think it was too bad and I actually enjoyed parts of it. I do get all the criticism levelled against it however. It certainly is not Shakespeare. Not being a native speaker, the accents were grating, yes, but not atrocious to me. In my opinion, much worse atrocities have been commited by Big Finish, in butchering the German language in such a way, that I have no clue what the supposed German words are supposed to mean- which completely breaks my immerson every single time. At a guess, other foreign languages might suffer the same fate, but I cannot really judge that. Funny enough - I am currently as I type watching an episode of 'Maigret' with Michael Gambon (Dumbledore) in the lead. Everyone is delivering in Home Counties English accents as if it was a Joan Hickson Miss Marple 'English Heritage' production. I wondered about the lack of any attempt at accents, then thought 'Its made after Allo Allo'. That really killed off English actors doing ' Le French and Ze Germans' caricature accents outside of comedy. At least modern TV 'Who' seeks out genuine American actors these days for suitable supporting roles. The Classic series had its own exhibits - Claws of Axos & Bill Filer anyone? Well, Big Finish is certainly improving on that front, I was overjoyed they got a German speaking actress for the 7th Doctor New Adventures box set last year. There were certainly some bad examples in New Who in the past, the Daleks in Journeys End come to mind... And of course Twice upon a Time, with the German soldier in the crater, which was atrocious. But it is partially forgiven, since it was Toby Whithouse's last chance to play a role in the series. I just wish someone would have at least tried to call up a German speaking friend to at least help him with the pronounciation...
And thinking back to watching the War Games- believe it or not, I think there was at least one German speaking guy in there and not all fake...
What really breaks my immersion is an example from Sherlock (I think it is in this mini-episode where Sherlock comes back making his way through Europe). There they made an effort of getting some native speakers in, BUT there are a couple non-native speakers (plus the fact we do not have juries in court over here). I was just thinking: "So close. But not quite."
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Post by theotherjosh on Jan 20, 2019 1:41:21 GMT
This is the only Big Finish story I describe as "bad". There are certainly some stories I don't enjoy, sure, but that's because they're not to my taste. If I don't like X, and a story is all about X, of course I'm not going to like it. I do understand the difference between a bad work and a good work that doesn't happen to appeal to me. Big Finish stories almost always fall into the latter category.
But as a general rule, Big Finish stories tend to work. They successfully tell the story that they set out to tell in an entertaining manner. Not everything is going to appeal to me, and that's fine, because there is an enormous supply of stuff that does.
But those accents, man. Nice to see that Foghorn Leghorn can still find work as a dialect coach.
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Post by slithe on Jan 20, 2019 9:40:11 GMT
Sorry... One of the rare misses from BF and, as already has been pointed out, a real waste of the Brig here.
This was a real disappointment for me as I loved The Stones of Venice and thought Storm Warning was good (Sword of Orion was so-so for me). Overly long, boring and hammy accents spoilt something that could have been a more adult themed release. Sadly, it rather put me off the 8th Doctor Adventures and I wasn't in a hurry for the next lot in 2002 after this.
Interestingly, this was the last 8th Doctor release with the 'Copper' Logo - any reason why BF abandoned that (or used it in the first place)? I notice that on the site the logo is now Blue, but the release I have is copper/brown.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 11:44:47 GMT
Interestingly, this was the last 8th Doctor release with the 'Copper' Logo - any reason why BF abandoned that (or used it in the first place)? I notice that on the site the logo is now Blue, but the release I have is copper/brown. Short answer; they wasn't supposed to be using the gold Doctor Who logo in the first place! Once the BBC pointed it out the logo returned to it's proper colour, blue. I assume Gary Russell wanted the gold Doctor Who logo to differentiate between the new season of Eighth Doctor audios from the rest of the monthly Doctor Who releases. |
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Post by Ela on Jan 20, 2019 20:33:19 GMT
It was an okay story. I don't have the complaints about it I've seen from many people. Certainly not the best BF story ever, but I enjoyed it overall.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 21, 2019 12:14:11 GMT
It could have been so much better, but i did hear somewhere that they were editing the script AS they were recording. So that probably didnt help
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 21, 2019 18:58:55 GMT
"Malebolgia" has been taking me out of the story since before I ever heard it and the Americans all sounding like Yosimite Sam doesn't help either, but somewhere in there is a pretty decent Eight Doctor and Brigadier story after all.
"Not my favorite story" might be putting it mildly, but I do still enjoy hearing it once in awhile.
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Post by number13 on Feb 23, 2019 11:28:39 GMT
So I guess this is where I play devil's advocate (almost literally) for just a minuet and say - I actually enjoyed this story!  Before someone sprinkles me with holy water (or goes to fetch sulphur and brimstone), here's my case for the defence... If I thought 'Minuet in Hell' was meant to be an entirely serious story, I wouldn't like it - some of the the acting would be awful, some of the characters would be insulting stereotypes and some of the content would be offensive. But come on - the new state of Malebolgia? That hornswaggling yee-har varmint the former senator Yosemite Sam? Pretty little (etc. !!) Brigham Elisha Dashwood III, part-time tele-evangelist, part-time politician and part-time devil worshipper? How could anyone take this seriously??! In those parts it's a satirical comedy and a very very broad one, not 'The Devil Rides Out' but 'Carry On Up the Pitchfork'.  And the big red 'devil' Marchosias is much more sarcastic than scary and has some great lines and a great voice to deliver them in. Charley's predicament would have been deeply offensive IF this was a serious story - but the tone of her reactions suggests otherwise. And I knew that when things threatened to turn ugly at the orgy, she'd get herself out of trouble and sure enough she does, with a strong right hook ( well done Ms. Pollard!) and her new friend Buffy Lee  kicking "gentlemen members" butts all round their mock-Hellfire Club with her super-powers. The serious science-fiction side of the story is the electronic mind-storing/editing machine at the Institute and I thought this worked very well as an idea and could easily have been a Counter-Measures plotline. I know the Eighth Doctor has had repeating amnesia, but only because I've read about it. So for me this was the first time (apart from the usual regeneration crisis on TV) and I thought the way this was handled plus the character of Gideon Crane was really well done and Paul McGann and Nicholas Briggs were excellent together. Was Gideon a fellow Time Lord trying to help? Or an enemy? Or even a figment of the Doctor's imagination? This mystery kept me guessing and I liked the solution - he's just a chap who was in the wrong place when the TARDIS landed out of control with a beserk Vortisaur and the Vortex getting into places it shouldn't. And this played well with the guest appearance of the Brig. - I too would have liked him to meet the Doctor sooner for maximum fan-pleasure, but keeping us waiting and guessing if/when he'd find the right Doctor did add to the plot in its own way. And oh how grand to hear Nicholas Courtney as the Brig one more time, bringing all his usual warmth and charm and typing his emails two-fingered before sending them off with a state-of-the-art dial-up modem! Even if he could have had a larger role (and should definitely have appeared in more stories), with him around there's the reassuring sense that he and the Doctor will come out on top, even if all the powers of darkness are against them. Which of course, they are not. Just some evil aliens feeding on fear and psychic energy - and what a great line that Charley is no use to them because she's already dead...!! (Obviously, listening now I know something of Charley's future which should never have been, but in 2001 that must have been a great teaser line.) Having done a bit of background reading, I now know something of the chaotic history of this story, but on reflection there are two major changes I'd have made. First, the ex-senator's comments on his visit to the asylum were simply offensive and should have been cut or at least toned-down. Second, the TV show broadcasting Dashwood's true nature to his electors was OK for a political story and he eventually ends up where he deserves to be, but I'd have preferred it to be replaced by one big showdown at the Hellfire Club in which Marchosias broke free of Dashwood and invited in lots of his horned friends, dragging all the corrupt "gentlemen" down to the hellish dimension they richly deserved and cleaning the Malebolgian stables for a fresh start. So it's far from the best of BF, but imo it's nowhere near as bad as it's often painted and I preferred it to some preachy, po-faced stories I could name.
Fellow DUers, I rest my case. |
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And the big red 'devil' Marchosias is much more sarcastic than scary and has some great lines and a great voice to deliver them in.
kicking "gentlemen members" butts all round their mock-Hellfire Club with her super-powers.