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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 25, 2019 23:39:00 GMT
Classic monsters came roaring back in these two bleak-as-all-hell 80s Saward stories. But which is your preferred shot of grim?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 23:43:02 GMT
Earthshock. But where's the poll?
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Post by glutamodo on Jan 26, 2019 5:22:31 GMT
Who needs a poll when Earthshock is the clear "winner
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 26, 2019 11:45:09 GMT
Earthshock any day.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 26, 2019 12:45:53 GMT
Earthshock definitely
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Post by sherlock on Jan 26, 2019 12:49:28 GMT
Earthshock by far. No contest.
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Post by mark687 on Jan 26, 2019 13:21:43 GMT
Earthshock
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mark687
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 13:30:53 GMT
Of the two, I think Earthshock is the more cohesive. It's the feature that launched a thousand serials, it really made people sit up and pay attention to the new production team. Resurrection is great (not least because it gave us Terry Molloy), but I think the story needed a couple more episodes to explore all the ideas clustered around it. It could very easily have made a six-parter without much effort.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 26, 2019 15:56:47 GMT
Is anyone prepared to stick their neck out and make the case for Resurrection as tbe better of the 2?
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Post by mark687 on Jan 26, 2019 16:05:21 GMT
Is anyone prepared to stick their neck out and make the case for Resurrection as tbe better of the 2? No but I will say Resurrection is a lot better then Warriors of the Deep!
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mark687
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Post by smith11 on Jan 26, 2019 20:36:10 GMT
I will be the one to say Resurrection is the winner for me, I just really enjoy it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 22:17:42 GMT
I will be the one to say Resurrection is the winner for me, I just really enjoy it Well, that confrontation with Davros on the station is definitely one of the most iconic things of his tenure. So much so that when it's echoed in Davros, I can't help but imagine it shot in precisely the same way -- the Sixth Doctor and the shotgun. For the Fifth Doctor, though, it's such a watershed moment because of just how close he comes to pulling that trigger. It's set up very well prior with him unloading the magazine of that handgun into the mutant (that attack outside the incubator room in Genesis must have left a lasting impression).
Matthew Robinson's direction is also really strong and polished too. Particularly Tegan's departure. It's shot in close-up so we can see the actors' reactions and Tegan isn't meeting the Doctor's eye throughout the whole scene. You can see her looking everywhere -- at all the carnage around them -- but not at him. Only when she grips his hand and that's to get him to do it. Then, she runs off towards the camera's vanishing point and out of sight. It's very well done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2019 23:44:52 GMT
Watching Resurrection in 1984 was more of an event. I was bedridden with a broken arm and the family brought up the portable colour telly so that i could watch it with them (it was the main telly at the time - no Video recorder either at the time. Not hard up, but these goods weren't cheap once upon a time).
Catching up with Earthshock on its VHS release, i appreciated it far better than when I was 10. More atmosphere, character depth, pace, simple story telling and with a few well spaced and judged shocks.
Its Alien vs Aliens really. Both great Doctor Who, but some don't like the violence of the latter or casual killing. Not what we want from the show, but good to see it dip into with more flair than Season 22 managed. It was a blind alley they should have left alone for a good while after Androzani. But then that's hindsight really.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 0:41:09 GMT
Watching Resurrection in 1984 was more of an event. I was bedridden with a broken arm and the family brought up the portable colour telly so that i could watch it with them (it was the main telly at the time - no Video recorder either at the time. Not hard up, but these goods weren't cheap once upon a time). Catching up with Earthshock on its VHS release, i appreciated it far better than when I was 10. More atmosphere, character depth, pace, simple story telling and with a few well spaced and judged shocks. Its Alien vs Aliens really. Both great Doctor Who, but some don't like the violence of the latter or casual killing. Not what we want from the show, but good to see it dip into with more flair than Season 22 managed. It was a blind alley they should have left alone for a good while after Androzani. But then that's hindsight really. A side-effect of that particular time as well. A year later was A View to a Kill, which had its psychopathic arch-villain machine-gun his unarmed workforce while they drowned to death. He laughs all the way through it; it is a deeply, profoundly disturbing scene and there's something about the 1980s that is saturated with stuff like it. I think it might've been tied into a fascination with the era's "greed is good" Self-Made Man archetype. The crisp, amoral sociopath was a trendy character.
Where I think they misstepped later in Who was not having the Doctor or Peri call it out. Aside from The Mark of the Rani and bits of Revelation of the Daleks, it ceased to be as disturbing to our protagonists as it should've been given their characters and it's that juxtaposition that makes it work. The intensity of the conflict being another obstacle for the moral characters to push through.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 1:42:57 GMT
This was of course the era where Sylvester Stallone broke records for $10m a film for punch drunk sequels to Rocky and First Blood (Rambo) plus Arnold Schwarzenegger's shoot em up break their bones fests.
No doubt fanboys were delighted that their old show could hold its own and still somehow retain a pre-watershed slot (i was impressed for many years - oh dear), but really its not what anyone called for from the show. The same way M.R James Ghost Stories always scored for many against the Pan Books of Horror fare. 'Everybody Lives!' exclaimed Eccleston's celebratory Doctor, as opposed to a dubious 'Everybody Dies!'. At least the likes of Fan Rock were non-violent and more a process of elimination than an opportunity to show any gratuity or gore. The melting faces from the gas in Resurrection sticks in my mind as being intentionally unpleasant, as does the shooting down of Chloe (play school) Ashcroft. Not sure modern Who would be allowed to portray such events. But yeah - it was the 80's to a 'T'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 3:06:48 GMT
Which is interesting because you can flip back through the pages of history to the Pat Troughton years for The Seeds of Death or Bill Hartnell's The Daleks' Master Plan before that for stories with just as high body counts. On and off, there's been an aspect of it in the programme for ages. I don't find it objectionable, personally. If the purpose is to shock and disturb, that's the story doing its job. Kids love it, it's one of the most appealing aspects of it. It feels adult to them. But, for me, I think it's at its most effective and best served when its contributing to the narrative.
It's why I think it works so well in Resurrection, it's all building up to that final denouncement with Tegan. By the end of the story, she's had enough and after everything the audience has seen... It's hard to fault her reaction. It nearly works in Attack of the Cybermen -- and I still really enjoy Attack for its stylishness -- but the emotional emphasis is off. By the end, it should've been about how history is made or broken by the contributions of those who don't even get a footnote (the Cryons, Russell, Griffiths, et al.). All the people who get forgotten and, for an optimistic note, the Doctor and Peri would choose to remember them. Even if no one else would. That would make it come full circle and solidify that impact.
I'm wondering a bit about the strictures of NuWho actually. A childrens' show, The Amazing World of Gumball, had a bomb on a school bus in one of their storylines, except that no one referred to it as a bomb. It was a "ticking briefcase". If at any point said the word, the scene would cut away or it would be drowned out by ambient noise. I wonder what the guidelines for taboo content actually are in this day and age?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 13:46:56 GMT
Even I would have to go with Earthshock! Both of those Fifth Doctor stories saw the end of an annoying companion but I thought Earthshock was a better story and had a more satisfying ending. Resurrection of the Daleks is lacking in so many departments, the only real highlight was Terry Molloy's Davros. (After Gooderson's woeful version in Destiny.) So of the two I enjoyed Earthshock more.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on Jan 30, 2019 23:10:57 GMT
Even I would have to go with Earthshock! Both of those Fifth Doctor stories saw the end of an annoying companion but I thought Earthshock was a better story and had a more satisfying ending. Resurrection of the Daleks is lacking in so many departments, the only real highlight was Terry Molloy's Davros. (After Gooderson's woeful version in Destiny.) So of the two I enjoyed Earthshock more. I think David Gooderson is great, the only issue is that no one added an effect to the voice. (I wonder what he'd sound like doing it now for Big Finish.) Mind you, I don't find Adric or Tegan annoying either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 12:21:55 GMT
Mind you, I don't find Adric or Tegan annoying either. I don't now... but back then, oh my, listening to Tegan whining was like finger nails scraping down a black board. She whined and threw more strops than Adric even... and that's saying something!
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 31, 2019 14:14:37 GMT
Mind you, I don't find Adric or Tegan annoying either. I don't now... but back then, oh my, listening to Tegan whining was like finger nails scraping down a black board. She whined and threw more strops than Adric even... and that's saying something! I think Tegan is great but here in Australia we've become quite a bit disenchanted with redheaded Queenslanders who complain, dislike people from other places and always ask "please explain."
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