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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 27, 2019 8:03:25 GMT
Hello again. "Even now, he is derided for his performance as the Seventh Doctor" Sorry Digi, there have been a few comments particularly from comedians such as Jimmy Carr that have sly digs at poor old Sylvester. Well, I think there are often comments here that can seem critical - in previous threads and in this one already he seems to be cited often enough for inconsistency in his performance, although I don't know if anyone is really meaning to be negative. I don't know if that's something I've experienced personally, I think he consistently does a fine job as The Doctor but that too is just a matter of opinion. I think sometimes his voice sounds a bit hoarse, lol, as I also think does Peter Davison's even more often, but that's the main thing I personally find inconsistent about either one and I don't think it's terribly relevant to their performances - I generally find Sylvester quite believable in his portrayals.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 27, 2019 8:07:15 GMT
The Seventh Doctor is one of the most fascinating incarnations to really pick apart from the perspective of the alien. He has a whole period of the show's history devoted almost solely to himself where he was neither fish, nor fowl. Neither classic, nor new. There's a temptation to describe his Doctor as mythic in the vein of: "Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair." Except, he isn't the statue of Ozymandias, he's the storm that felled it. He has a mystical bent to him and was the first incarnation who is deliberately depicted as having reached the end of his tether. This is the Doctor in his old age. Regrets? Many, quite many. Unfinished plans? Oh, yes. He's dancing the line between good and ill, and there's a very strong possibility (carried over from the fears of his predecessor) that he's becoming his enemy.
And in that deep and powerful examination... We have moments like him bursting into a 22nd century religious cult shouting in ancient Japanese: "Make way! For I am the official keeper of his majesty's penguins and I must hurry because his majesty's laundry basket is on fire." He still has his humanity, even if he doesn't quite recognise it anymore. Arguably the most complexly contradictory of Doctors. In Watchman terms, he's Manhattan and Adrian Veidt both. He's the end and the new beginning. The fact that he looks human is more a devotion to old habits. It helps him move in the circles he needs to, little more. At least, that's what he thinks...
This is such a wonderful description of the Seventh Doctor that I want to quote you simply so this remains on the front page awhile longer. Thank you for this!!
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 27, 2019 8:12:59 GMT
Well, although at first I could not stand him at all, he has since then grown on me. The new adventures of Bernice Summerfield box 1 was certainly the wrong place to start with him and put me off for a long while (yes, Sylvester had a lot of fun playing a stoned Doctor, but I found it just absolutely grating). Luckily I gave him a second chance and there are some really good stories with him, covering all media. There are, however, also a few pretty bad ones... I am not a fan of the comedy Doctor (or the stoned Doctor in the Benny boxset), and the manipulator is also sometimes very hard for me to swallow. I did read the book "Love and War" (because I was curious for Benny) and I HATED how the Doctor was portrayed there. I also do not share everybodies enthusiasm for "Curse of Fenric", however, I loved "Survival". So yeah, I am a bit ambivalent towards 7.
That being said, I met Sylvester at Comic Con last year and oh my god, the man is FANTASTIC. EVERYBODY loved him and he was easily the most popular actor at the whole event, blowing others like Andrew Scott out of the water. His panel was maybe the best one I have ever seen an actor do. He even came to my fanclub and had pictures taken with our club TARDIS. It was love on first sight.
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Post by doctorkernow on Mar 11, 2019 8:54:13 GMT
Hello again.
Well that's my first tranche of McCoy stories listened to and what a variety.
Flip Flop, a mind-bending story without some great villains and a TARDIS team that works well. Not to mention a story that can be listened to in any order.
We Are the Daleks, imagine if season 24 had opened with a Dalek story set in 1987? The Daleks as venture captalists using tried and tested techniques with an Eighties spin. An enjoyable story with a great cast.
Fires of Vulcan, another great story. The dynamic duo get well and truly immersed in a past culture. Lots of atmosphere and one I shall listen to again.
Red, umm, can I keep the lights on tonight? This is one of the scariest Who audios I've heard. McCoy is unrecognisably sinister, as is that flaming computer. The subject of violence is treated in an interesting way. To hear Bake-off's Sandi Toksvig as the chilling Vi Yulquen was a revelation. Poor old Mel is left to fight for answers and her life in this dystopian nightmare.
Next stop, its Monday, 3rd September, it's 7pm and a new series of Doctor Who begins with an old foe and a Doctor skating on Thin Ice...
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Post by Digi on Mar 11, 2019 10:44:19 GMT
Nice! I managed to suppress my desire to revisit Seven, but you’re making me want to do it all over again
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 11, 2019 19:20:32 GMT
Hello again. Well that's my first tranche of McCoy stories listened to and what a variety. Flip Flop, a mind-bending story without some great villains and a TARDIS team that works well. Not to mention a story that can be listened to in any order. We Are the Daleks, imagine if season 24 had opened with a Dalek story set in 1987? The Daleks as venture captalists using tried and tested techniques with an Eighties spin. An enjoyable story with a great cast. Fires of Vulcan, another great story. The dynamic duo get well and truly immersed in a past culture. Lots of atmosphere and one I shall listen to again. Red, umm, can I keep the lights on tonight? This is one of the scariest Who audios I've heard. McCoy is unrecognisably sinister, as is that flaming computer. The subject of violence is treated in an interesting way. To hear Bake-off's Sandi Toksvig chilling Vi Yulquen was a revelation. Poor old Mel is left to fight for answers and her life in this dystopian nightmare. Next stop, its Monday, 3rd September, it's 7pm and a new series of Doctor Who begins with an old foe and a Doctor skating on Thin Ice... I really like "Red". I think McCoy is great in it. Come to think of it, need to put it on my "re-listen" list...
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Post by doctorkernow on Mar 30, 2019 13:14:39 GMT
Hello again.
Thin Ice is a interesting introduction to a possible Season 27. I liked the Russian setting,the lost tribe of Ice Warriors forced to eat crates of fish fingers and Ace being secretly assessed for entry to the Timelord Academy.
The cast are excellent particularly Ricky Groves as Markus, Beth Chalmers as Raina and John Albasiny as Major Felnikov.
A crime caper and a monster story that I really enjoyed. Sssssuperr.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Mar 30, 2019 14:08:10 GMT
There's a part of me that wants to set the Audio Adaptation of Nightshade before Fearmonger.
yes im one of those who say the VNA's are a seperate universe, only the Audio versions are part of what i call the Prime Universe lol
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Post by doctorkernow on Mar 30, 2019 17:53:43 GMT
Hello again.
I think that's fair enough Whiskeybrewer. For me, the New Adventures were simply an extension of the Seventh Doctor's run. I used to look forward to each monthly release although finances precluded purchasing all of them. The VNA's will always be an interesting version of how the Seventh Doctor could have developed and Human Nature, Love and War, Timewyrm: Exodus and Lungbarrow will always be special as the stories that saw me through the Wilderness years.
I was a latecomer to Big Finish due to lack of finances. It was only when downloads came in and that very generous reduction in price of those first 50 releases that I joined the party. My first McCoy Big Finish was Thin Ice! My first main range McCoy was the very NA like Shadow of the Scourge. It is only now that I'm running through my 35 odd McCoy stories that I can assimilate them into my own Seventh Doctor era. We are so fortunate that we have this extra collection of Seventh Doctor audio stories to enjoy.
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Post by doctorkernow on Jul 25, 2019 14:26:10 GMT
Hello again.
My journey through the Seventh Doctor stories first tackled the very New Adventures-like Scourge story and the very odd The Rapture. The latter in particular is very like a New Adventure in theme and style. I loved the setting and soundtrack. I found what seemed like the audio equivalent of very rapid jump cuts rather disconcerting. I will go back and listen again if only for ole Tony Blackburn!
I then started the Hex and Ace stories. Hex is a great companion and gives much-needed balance to the TARDIS. I like the fact that like Rory he is a gentler male character but with hidden strength and determination. He gets stuck in to using his nursing training in many of his stories.
The Harvest could have been done on tv. It would have been a great season opener. I enjoyed the historical stories The Settling and Angel of Scutari. Strong characters and story-telling in both. Recommended.
Live 34 is a fascinating immersion into a totalitarian state and how the TARDIS crew help the inhabitants of the planet discover the truth. Excellent.
The Magic Mousetrap is eerie, full of larger than life characters and you spend a lot of time at the start wondering what is going on. The payoff is great and the villain when revealed really creepy.
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Post by slithe on Aug 10, 2019 13:56:40 GMT
Hello again. My journey through the Seventh Doctor stories first tackled the very New Adventures-like Scourge story and the very odd The Rapture. The latter in particular is very like a New Adventure in theme and style. I loved the setting and soundtrack. I found what seemed like the audio equivalent of very rapid jump cuts rather disconcerting. I will go back and listen again if only for ole Tony Blackburn! I then started the Hex and Ace stories. Hex is a great companion and gives much-needed balance to the TARDIS. I like the fact that like Rory he is a gentler male character but with hidden strength and determination. He gets stuck in to using his nursing training in many of his stories. The Harvest could have been done on tv. It would have been a great season opener. I enjoyed the historical stories The Settling and Angel of Scutari. Strong characters and story-telling in both. Recommended. Live 34 is a fascinating immersion into a totalitarian state and how the TARDIS crew help the inhabitants of the planet discover the truth. Excellent. The Magic Mousetrap is eerie, full of larger than life characters and you spend a lot of time at the start wondering what is going on. The payoff is great and the villain when revealed really creepy. The Harvest is definitely a stand out story and would work, as you say, in any medium. The first episode is a good pastiche of An Unearthly Child and the Doctor is kept very much in the background. Establishing the 'family'/ensemble cast in the first episode is also very much in tune with the new series approach and echoes what Rose would do a year later. The premise of The Harvest is a good one and I am surprised that Cybermen in a hospital environment has not been done before. The idea of a EuroGovernment does seem rather far-fetched now (although at time of release it was a distinct possibility). I like Live 34, but see it as a more advanced/updated version of The Fearmonger from 2000. Whilst I think both stories are excellent, Fearmonger edges it a bit for me as I think it is so relevant to today that it is untrue - playing on people's fears, fake news and rabble rousing politicians might have seemed so far fetched in 2000, but are par for the course today. Sadly. Both fit McCoy well here.
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Post by doctorkernow on Aug 14, 2019 13:38:12 GMT
Hello again.
Nearing the end of the surprising Seventh Doctor now. The Word Lord is a truly malevolent creation. Both iterations in The Word Lord and A Death in the Family are as clever and dangerous as the Doctor. The latter story is one of my favourite stories and heartily recommended.
My Hex stories ended with Protect and Survive and Gods and Monsters. The former was a superb Doctor-lite story with a great atmosphere. Gods and Monsters was a bit more difficult to get into but that finale. What a great cliffhanger.
There were a few solo Doctor stories, Master, Valhalla and Robophobia. A great trio of stories that show McCoy at his manipulative but charming best. Robophobia is an effective and claustrophobic sequel to Robots of Death.
As for Master, I dare you to listen to it with the lights off. Brrr.
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Post by doctorkernow on Aug 14, 2019 13:55:27 GMT
Hello again.
The Klein trilogy I originally listened to on BBC Radio 4 extra. Now, it is best listened to as a quartet with Steve Lyons's Colditz as the first story.
Next up, A Thousand Tiny Wings is a creepy classic. A house under seige from an uprising, ladies with a variety of views and expertise and a truly original alien presence. You then add to this a renewal of Klein and the Doctor's arguments as to whose is the true historical path.
Klein's Story and Survival of the Fittest carries on the story of the Doctor and Dr. Elizabeth Klein. Again there is an interesting alien world. Another conflict of ideas and what is the right thing to do.
I won't reveal much about The Architects of History except to say that it is a fine ending to this assured set of stories. Also recommended is the interview with Steve Lyons.
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Post by doctorkernow on Aug 14, 2019 14:28:46 GMT
Hello again.
We finish with two adaptations from the Virgin New Adventures.
Love and War is very special. I've read it several times and find different things in it each time. The audio version does a great job. It was fascinating to hear the voices of the Travellers as they battle for survival.
The Hoothi are a truly repulsive creation and are just as horrid in audio. Getting Bernard Hollis as Phaedrus is a coup. His interpretation of the extremist priest is excellent.
Sylvester McCoy , Sophie Aldred and Lisa Bowerman are the heart of this story. All three put their all into bringing to life the love, laughter, terror, anger and despair that the events on Heaven bring.
This is heartily recommended as one of the best New Adventures.
I have never read Damaged Goods. The audio version is a tragic story. It is full of scares featuring one the most chilling scenes I've heard on audio. The Capper is a ferocious character and quite terrifying when you listen to it first.
Ros and Chris don't get that much to do. Mainly, using their skills as Adjudicators. Not surprising as this story is all about the characters on the estate. Both Michelle Collins and Georgie Fuller are a very convincing mother and daughter.
Harry and David are well-drawn characters too. David and Chris provide the only much-needed levity in this grim tale set in 80's Britain.
It is a fascinating glimpse into where Russell's vision of the monsters affecting real people in domestic situations came from. It is strange to think that from this, his first full length novel, he was chosen to resurrect Doctor Who in 2005 and the Tyler's name was reused.
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Post by doctorkernow on Aug 14, 2019 15:05:00 GMT
Hello again.
Well that's it. I found the Seventh Doctor's stories an odd bunch. I have fewer of them but there's much to enjoy. There's a rehabilitation for poor old Mel in Fires of Vulcan, Red and We Are The Daleks. Ace is given a mentoring role when Hex joins the Tardis crew in The Gathering.
McCoy's Doctor is playful and cunning and given some great opponents particularly Elizabeth Klein and The Word Lord. He can be extremely sinister as in Red and Master. He appears completely ridiculous in Boom-Bang-A-Boom and yet be totally in control as in LIVE 34.
It is great that Big Finish has also adapted some of the New Adventures and it has been a pleasure to travel with the Machiavelian trickster, if at times a little disconcerting.
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Post by slithe on Aug 14, 2019 18:51:49 GMT
Hello again. The Klein trilogy I originally listened to on BBC Radio 4 extra. Now, it is best listened to as a quartet with Steve Lyons's Colditz as the first story. Next up, A Thousand Tiny Wings is a creepy classic. A house under seige from an uprising, ladies with a variety of views and expertise and a truly original alien presence. You then add to this a renewal of Klein and the Doctor's arguments as to whose is the true historical path. Klein's Story and Survival of the Fittest carries on the story of the Doctor and Dr. Elizabeth Klein. Again there is an interesting alien world. Another conflict of ideas and what is the right thing to do. I won't reveal much about The Architects of History except to say that it is a fine ending to this assured set of stories. Also recommended is the interview with Steve Lyons. Great trilogy of stories here. They made me really sit up and take notice of the Seventh Doctor and, without doubt, are some of the strongest releases in the BF catalogue. Klein is an excellent foil for the Seventh Doctor and the fact that the Doctor manipulates her timeline as much as he does says as much about his character as it does about hers. Sadly, I don't think subsequent Klein stories have been as good. The second trilogy is a pale imitation (in my honest opinion) and was a real let down. Warlock's Cross wasn't much of an improvement either.
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Post by doctorkernow on Aug 14, 2019 20:43:35 GMT
Hello again.
I couldn't agree more Slithe. Elizabeth Klein is a great creation. I really enjoyed her verbal battles with the Seventh Doctor. Sorry to hear her later stories are a bit disappointing.
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Post by project37 on Aug 15, 2019 0:56:58 GMT
I'm borrowing from a post I'd made elsewhere ages ago, but I think the first run of Klein stories holds up and forms the best and most cohesive "trilogy" for BF Doctor Who.
It's remarkable just how strongly the three (well, four) stories click together, even though there are different authors and wildly different settings. Unlike my experience with a lot of the trilogies, this one felt like they had some time to plan it out and create a *journey* out of the overall narrative. I love how things started on a seemingly innocuous note with a cozy (so to speak) story to bring the leads together before effortlessly moving into a clever "flashback" episode to underscore their very uncomfortable and tenuous partnership.
Solid guest casting from start to finish (including the phenomenal use of Schmidt!), and I loved how the stakes get bigger and bigger as the arc continues. The "visual budget" seems to grow exponentially as the settings (and the soundtrack) increase in scale. Even though the Seventh Doctor and Klein can seem like a cold pairing on the surface, the writing manage to stir emotions in me, especially by the time we got to Rachel's fate (and Klein's).
The stories themselves aren't particularly unique (humans destroying an otherwise peaceful world, book-ended by variations of "base under siege" adventures), but the dynamic between the Doctor and Klein is well-charted throughout the stories (there's a meaningful sense of progression) and I found their relationship to be both uncomfortable yet compelling.
Was this just a matter of luck in terms of things lining up so smoothly, or was there actually a bit more time (and space) to develop an overall vision before heading into the studio? Either way, this for me is among the pinnacle of audio Doctor Who and is an easy highlight of the overall range. It's strange to think that it's been almost ten years (!) since this was released, but I'm hard-pressed to think of any other trilogies that hit similar heights in terms of concept and execution.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 2:07:26 GMT
I'm borrowing from a post I'd made elsewhere ages ago, but I think the first run of Klein stories holds up and forms the best and most cohesive "trilogy" for BF Doctor Who. It's remarkable just how strongly the three (well, four) stories click together, even though there are different authors and wildly different settings. Unlike my experience with a lot of the trilogies, this one felt like they had some time to plan it out and create a *journey* out of the overall narrative. I love how things started on a seemingly innocuous note with a cozy (so to speak) story to bring the leads together before effortlessly moving into a clever "flashback" episode to underscore their very uncomfortable and tenuous partnership. Solid guest casting from start to finish (including the phenomenal use of Schmidt!), and I loved how the stakes get bigger and bigger as the arc continues. The "visual budget" seems to grow exponentially as the settings (and the soundtrack) increase in scale. Even though the Seventh Doctor and Klein can seem like a cold pairing on the surface, the writing manage to stir emotions in me, especially by the time we got to Rachel's fate (and Klein's). The stories themselves aren't particularly unique (humans destroying an otherwise peaceful world, book-ended by variations of "base under siege" adventures), but the dynamic between the Doctor and Klein is well-charted throughout the stories (there's a meaningful sense of progression) and I found their relationship to be both uncomfortable yet compelling. Was this just a matter of luck in terms of things lining up so smoothly, or was there actually a bit more time (and space) to develop an overall vision before heading into the studio? Either way, this for me is among the pinnacle of audio Doctor Who and is an easy highlight of the overall range. It's strange to think that it's been almost ten years (!) since this was released, but I'm hard-pressed to think of any other trilogies that hit similar heights in terms of concept and execution. It's also a great deconstruction of that archetypal power dynamic between Doctor and companion. Both sides vie for control in a way that you fundamentally just don't see in other teams. From the Doctor's perspective, she's the product of a historical mistake. A rogue from another timeline that should never have come to pass anyway. He's responsible not just for her presence, but for her actions in this new world. The disruption of that was necessary. From Klein's perspective, he's taken everything away from her. Friends, colleagues, even a sense of surety about her place in history. But it was her overreaching that lead to her becoming lost in the first place. They're both alien, but in fundamentally different ways and that's where the special brand of conflict arises. It's why I think later trilogies didn't land as much as this one. Here, Klein considers herself a moderate, but she is still unrepentent about the nature of her background. Nor is the Doctor repentent about the nature of his. I think what makes it work is that it's not an arc about Klein's redemption, as such. The focus is more on whether people are guided more by nature or nurture and whether it's possible to overturn either. Why I think the dynamic is so effectively uncomfortable is that Klein, despite her views, is still written like a human being. Nowadays, we'd use an example like Thanos from Infinity War, but the New Adventures also dabbled in some disturbingly ordinary adversaries. She had friends, family, she was doted on, she experiences grief at an innocent's death and can hold a normal conversation. She's not uneducated, she's not inexperienced. In another timeline, she could've been the equivalent of Elizabeth Shaw. But there was something in who she was or how she was raised that she still followed that fascist ideology. The evil was ordinary. There's something quite frightening about that. It's a credit to writers Andy Lane, Jonathan Clements, John Ainsworth and Lee Mansfield, and Steve Lyons that such heavily explored topics in Who feel entirely fresh and new in this trilogy.
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Post by project37 on Aug 15, 2019 10:25:53 GMT
They're both alien, but in fundamentally different ways and that's where the special brand of conflict arises. It's why I think later trilogies didn't land as much as this one. Here, Klein considers herself a moderate, but she is still unrepentent about the nature of her background. Nor is the Doctor repentent about the nature of his. I think what makes it work is that it's not an arc about Klein's redemption, as such. The focus is more on whether people are guided more by nature or nurture and whether it's possible to overturn either. Why I think the dynamic is so effectively uncomfortable is that Klein, despite her views, is still written like a human being. Nowadays, we'd use an example like Thanos from Infinity War, but the New Adventures also dabbled in some disturbingly ordinary adversaries. She had friends, family, she was doted on, she experiences grief at an innocent's death and can hold a normal conversation. She's not uneducated, she's not inexperienced. In another timeline, she could've been the equivalent of Elizabeth Shaw. But there was something in who she was or how she was raised that she still followed that fascist ideology. The evil was ordinary. There's something quite frightening about that. It's a credit to writers Andy Lane, Jonathan Clements, John Ainsworth and Lee Mansfield, and Steve Lyons that such heavily explored topics in Who feel entirely fresh and new in this trilogy. This is such an outstanding articulation of why Klein and this trilogy worked so well - i.e., nothing about it is straightforward or obvious when it comes to her character arc. That's why the tightly-crafted "Klein's Story" chapter in particular was such a powerful episode. As you said, it humanized her and that makes for incredibly challenging listening because we're naturally supposed to hate her and distance ourselves as far as possible from someone with her beliefs.
UNIT: Dominion wasn't perfect (DID I MENTION MY WIFE'S EXPECTING A BABY???), but I think that Klein was well-served as a character. She definitely got to be Elizabeth Shaw and was great at it (even holding her own against "The Doctor"). I never heard the follow-up trilogy, but from what I'd gleaned from reviews and forum responses elsewhere, I think it's better that my experience with her character ended where it did.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but other than Steve Lyons, it seems that none of the other writers returned to the main range.
On another note, I'm sad that writer Steven Hall and his creation the Word Lord never returned either. But they definitely went out on the highest of possible highs.
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