|
Post by constonks on Mar 7, 2019 16:02:37 GMT
News story says 1st meeting of 2nd Dr & Master, but this overlooks the 1997 MA The Dark Path by David McIntee Also while the Doctor doesn't meet the Master (implied to be Delgado) in The Nameless City, Jamie does. But the very existence of the Dreyfus Master overlooks The Dark Path, so the same timebending explanations must be applied. For my money, I think it works like this: Harvest of Time has a moment when the Delgado Master is outside of the universe, and no longer connected to the gestalt entity that is his own Masterness - deep down, he wants to be free of the influence his other selves. It's a scene that paints the Master as something otherworldly - far more than just another Time Lord, some might say - and it meshes well with how we've seen the Masters interact in The Two Masters and especially in The Doctor Falls.
So let's imagine the Second Doctor meets Koschei in The Dark Path and is happy to see him. The events are exactly as described in the novel. The Master is born and thus the gestalt's influence spreads across time, all the way back to Gallifrey. This time around, the Master is worse. Thus, in The Destination Wars, the First Doctor is distrusting of the Master - he already knows him to be a villain.
So does The Dark Path take place in an earlier, alternate timeline? I'd actually posit that it could still happen, given something said in The Day of the Doctor.
In Day, it is established that the timelines can be out of sync - so that if the Eleventh Doctor changes an event in the War Doctor's life, the Ninth and Tenth Doctors will remember the event - Gallifrey burning. Time is preserved because it must be.
So when the Master and the Doctor reach the events of The Dark Path, the timelines are out of sync but the Dark Path is a fixed point in time that cannot be changed. So despite having run into each other at least twice since Gallifrey, they live out the original events where Koschei became the Master. Perhaps they both realize the discrepancy after.
Or you could just say it's an alternate timeline, an original, now averted - rather like the burned Gallifrey, or how I view Spiral Scratch.
Or you could ignore the book altogether, but that's no fun.
|
|
lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
|
Post by lidar2 on Mar 7, 2019 16:10:49 GMT
News story says 1st meeting of 2nd Dr & Master, but this overlooks the 1997 MA The Dark Path by David McIntee Also while the Doctor doesn't meet the Master (implied to be Delgado) in The Nameless City, Jamie does. But the very existence of the Dreyfus Master overlooks The Dark Path, so the same timebending explanations must be applied. For my money, I think it works like this: Harvest of Time has a moment when the Delgado Master is outside of the universe, and no longer connected to the gestalt entity that is his own Masterness - deep down, he wants to be free of the influence his other selves. It's a scene that paints the Master as something otherworldly - far more than just another Time Lord, some might say - and it meshes well with how we've seen the Masters interact in The Two Masters and especially in The Doctor Falls.
So let's imagine the Second Doctor meets Koschei in The Dark Path and is happy to see him. The events are exactly as described in the novel. The Master is born and thus the gestalt's influence spreads across time, all the way back to Gallifrey. This time around, the Master is worse. Thus, in The Destination Wars, the First Doctor is distrusting of the Master - he already knows him to be a villain.
So does The Dark Path take place in an earlier, alternate timeline? I'd actually posit that it could still happen, given something said in The Day of the Doctor.
In Day, it is established that the timelines can be out of sync - so that if the Eleventh Doctor changes an event in the War Doctor's life, the Ninth and Tenth Doctors will remember the event - Gallifrey burning. Time is preserved because it must be.
So when the Master and the Doctor reach the events of The Dark Path, the timelines are out of sync but the Dark Path is a fixed point in time that cannot be changed. So despite having run into each other at least twice since Gallifrey, they live out the original events where Koschei became the Master. Perhaps they both realize the discrepancy after.
Or you could just say it's an alternate timeline, an original, now averted - rather like the burned Gallifrey, or how I view Spiral Scratch.
Or you could ignore the book altogether, but that's no fun. I feel honour bound to mention that if dear old Magnus Magister were here, he would doubtless be insisting that they did meet on TV in The War Games ...
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Mar 7, 2019 16:16:11 GMT
News story says 1st meeting of 2nd Dr & Master, but this overlooks the 1997 MA The Dark Path by David McIntee Also while the Doctor doesn't meet the Master (implied to be Delgado) in The Nameless City, Jamie does. But the very existence of the Dreyfus Master overlooks The Dark Path, so the same timebending explanations must be applied. For my money, I think it works like this: Harvest of Time has a moment when the Delgado Master is outside of the universe, and no longer connected to the gestalt entity that is his own Masterness - deep down, he wants to be free of the influence his other selves. It's a scene that paints the Master as something otherworldly - far more than just another Time Lord, some might say - and it meshes well with how we've seen the Masters interact in The Two Masters and especially in The Doctor Falls.
So let's imagine the Second Doctor meets Koschei in The Dark Path and is happy to see him. The events are exactly as described in the novel. The Master is born and thus the gestalt's influence spreads across time, all the way back to Gallifrey. This time around, the Master is worse. Thus, in The Destination Wars, the First Doctor is distrusting of the Master - he already knows him to be a villain.
So does The Dark Path take place in an earlier, alternate timeline? I'd actually posit that it could still happen, given something said in The Day of the Doctor.
In Day, it is established that the timelines can be out of sync - so that if the Eleventh Doctor changes an event in the War Doctor's life, the Ninth and Tenth Doctors will remember the event - Gallifrey burning. Time is preserved because it must be.
So when the Master and the Doctor reach the events of The Dark Path, the timelines are out of sync but the Dark Path is a fixed point in time that cannot be changed. So despite having run into each other at least twice since Gallifrey, they live out the original events where Koschei became the Master. Perhaps they both realize the discrepancy after.
Or you could just say it's an alternate timeline, an original, now averted - rather like the burned Gallifrey, or how I view Spiral Scratch.
Or you could ignore the book altogether, but that's no fun. Well Done
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Mar 7, 2019 16:17:46 GMT
Also while the Doctor doesn't meet the Master (implied to be Delgado) in The Nameless City, Jamie does. But the very existence of the Dreyfus Master overlooks The Dark Path, so the same timebending explanations must be applied. For my money, I think it works like this: Harvest of Time has a moment when the Delgado Master is outside of the universe, and no longer connected to the gestalt entity that is his own Masterness - deep down, he wants to be free of the influence his other selves. It's a scene that paints the Master as something otherworldly - far more than just another Time Lord, some might say - and it meshes well with how we've seen the Masters interact in The Two Masters and especially in The Doctor Falls.
So let's imagine the Second Doctor meets Koschei in The Dark Path and is happy to see him. The events are exactly as described in the novel. The Master is born and thus the gestalt's influence spreads across time, all the way back to Gallifrey. This time around, the Master is worse. Thus, in The Destination Wars, the First Doctor is distrusting of the Master - he already knows him to be a villain.
So does The Dark Path take place in an earlier, alternate timeline? I'd actually posit that it could still happen, given something said in The Day of the Doctor.
In Day, it is established that the timelines can be out of sync - so that if the Eleventh Doctor changes an event in the War Doctor's life, the Ninth and Tenth Doctors will remember the event - Gallifrey burning. Time is preserved because it must be.
So when the Master and the Doctor reach the events of The Dark Path, the timelines are out of sync but the Dark Path is a fixed point in time that cannot be changed. So despite having run into each other at least twice since Gallifrey, they live out the original events where Koschei became the Master. Perhaps they both realize the discrepancy after.
Or you could just say it's an alternate timeline, an original, now averted - rather like the burned Gallifrey, or how I view Spiral Scratch.
Or you could ignore the book altogether, but that's no fun. I feel honour bound to mention that if dear old Magnus Magister were here, he would doubtless be insisting that they did meet on TV in The War Games ... LOL
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Mar 7, 2019 19:16:12 GMT
We don’t know much about either story, but the cast list and writers are enough to make me look forward to them! I take it the second story is The Doctor, Jamie & Zoe bumping into Steven? Daughter of the Gods makes me think of Katarina; a recast maybe? And Peter Purves playing the First Doctor, even if it’s a cameo? Curious!
It’s a touch disappointing that there’s only two stories, and they’re not even in a boxset, which DWM claimed. Perhaps there’ll be another set of two earlier in 2020? Splitting the range up, rather like the First Doctor Adventures.
The bundle price is good, but they typically are for the Early Years. Big Finish should really apply those sorts of discounts to the other ranges. I understand it’s because a lot have a “pre-order price”, but I doubt all that many buy after they’ve been released. Not when there’s so many sales!
|
|
|
Post by chronotis on Mar 7, 2019 22:43:01 GMT
We don’t know much about either story, but the cast list and writers are enough to make me look forward to them! I take it the second story is The Doctor, Jamie & Zoe bumping into Steven? Daughter of the Gods makes me think of Katarina; a recast maybe? And Peter Purves playing the First Doctor, even if it’s a cameo? Curious!
This opens up more questions than it answers. Is this instead of the Second Doctor's run of stories? Will the Second Doctor get next year's run instead? If so, this would presumably shift it so that the First and Second Doctors get their Companion Chronicles and Early Adventures in the same year.
Given that Daughter of the Gods features Padbury and Purves and the title seems to imply Katarina, does that mean that it is a Second Doctor story featuring Steven? or does that mean that it is a multi Doctor with the First and Second Doctor? I suspect it won't be the later, but I'd love it if it was.
We also don't know where the Dalek story that Hines has recorded fits in.
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Mar 7, 2019 22:45:56 GMT
With this announcement and only 2 instead of stories, I’m pretty sure that Big Finish is starting to bank up Early Adventures, like with Tom Baker.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 22:47:15 GMT
Grief, I'm tempted to do the Stien quote from Ressurection of the Daleks!
|
|
|
Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 8, 2019 4:44:49 GMT
With this announcement and only 2 instead of stories, I’m pretty sure that Big Finish is starting to bank up Early Adventures, like with Tom Baker. When most of your potential cast members are 70+ years, that is a wise strategy.
|
|
|
Post by agentten on Mar 8, 2019 21:36:41 GMT
Always excited to hear that there's more Early Adventures on the way, especially with Two squaring off against the Master.
|
|
|
Post by Bazoolium on Mar 8, 2019 22:18:47 GMT
We don’t know much about either story, but the cast list and writers are enough to make me look forward to them! I take it the second story is The Doctor, Jamie & Zoe bumping into Steven? Daughter of the Gods makes me think of Katarina; a recast maybe? And Peter Purves playing the First Doctor, even if it’s a cameo? Curious!
This opens up more questions than it answers. Is this instead of the Second Doctor's run of stories? Will the Second Doctor get next year's run instead? If so, this would presumably shift it so that the First and Second Doctors get their Companion Chronicles and Early Adventures in the same year.
Given that Daughter of the Gods features Padbury and Purves and the title seems to imply Katarina, does that mean that it is a Second Doctor story featuring Steven? or does that mean that it is a multi Doctor with the First and Second Doctor? I suspect it won't be the later, but I'd love it if it was.
We also don't know where the Dalek story that Hines has recorded fits in.
Oh, I had not thought of it being a Multi Doctor story, that would be fun. Shame there's only the two stories.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Mar 18, 2019 12:44:33 GMT
Well I never thought that Character would return!
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by dannybl on Mar 18, 2019 12:58:16 GMT
We don’t know much about either story, but the cast list and writers are enough to make me look forward to them! I take it the second story is The Doctor, Jamie & Zoe bumping into Steven? Daughter of the Gods makes me think of Katarina; a recast maybe? And Peter Purves playing the First Doctor, even if it’s a cameo? Curious!
This opens up more questions than it answers. Is this instead of the Second Doctor's run of stories? Will the Second Doctor get next year's run instead? If so, this would presumably shift it so that the First and Second Doctors get their Companion Chronicles and Early Adventures in the same year.
Given that Daughter of the Gods features Padbury and Purves and the title seems to imply Katarina, does that mean that it is a Second Doctor story featuring Steven? or does that mean that it is a multi Doctor with the First and Second Doctor? I suspect it won't be the later, but I'd love it if it was.
We also don't know where the Dalek story that Hines has recorded fits in.
SPOT ON www.bigfinish.com/news/v/katarina-returns
|
|
|
Post by Whovitt on Mar 18, 2019 13:02:12 GMT
These last couple of years seem to have a number of Doctor Who 'K's being brought back that no-one was really asking for: first the Kandyman, then Kamelion, and now Katarina. Given how well done the last couple of returns have been, I'm super pumped for this one! (Plus, a 1st/2nd multi-Doc! I've been dreaming about this day for years! )
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Mar 18, 2019 13:24:21 GMT
"Oh my giddy aunt!" "Hmmm! Quite so, quite so!"
Katerina thought she was on her way to 'heaven'... I think BF have just showed me the way to EA heaven! What a cast (and writer)
|
|
|
Post by axelotl38 on Mar 18, 2019 13:27:40 GMT
I've never been more glad to be wrong or cynical/unoptimistic. It turns out it's exactly what people thought, AND I'M SO GLAD! Holy Hell, I never thought we'd ever get a Classic Doctor multi-Doc story (barring token cameos in The Light at the End naturally). Chuck in a fan-damn-tastic writer to boot and what sounds like a juicily delicious dilemma and we've got the potential for a brilliant story.
Throw in a Ben Polly Master story (even if the actor is ahem, questionable) and we've got a brilliant run on our hands! Just a shame that there's only two stories this year as opposed to the usual 4.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Mar 18, 2019 13:36:38 GMT
This sounds great; it’s nice to be right for a change! Fan pleasing elements that seem justified and it’s another first for Big Finish. I love the mention of the two eras being different and clashing in the story. Really looking forward to it!
|
|
|
Post by newt5996 on Mar 18, 2019 13:47:53 GMT
Wasn't expecting more Katarina and I kind of hope they don't try to shoehorn adventures into the non-existent gap but it seems that Daughter of the Gods is at least going to be a sideways in time. And Frazer Hines and Peter Purves together is too good to pass up.
|
|
|
Post by Max Kashevsky on Mar 18, 2019 14:27:37 GMT
The EAs have always been unusually superb. But this is really scratching my fannish itch. Daleks written by Barnes, a Katarina return that may be more than meets the eye, and a multi-Doctor story that's actually about tones and eras colliding, rather than just two actors sharing a 'screen'? I'm really excited.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on Mar 18, 2019 15:34:35 GMT
If i hadn't have already pre ordered these this latest news would've convinced me, awesomeness 2018 shaping up very nicely for Big Finish.
Now if only Tom & David would do a story together...
|
|