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Post by Ela on Mar 21, 2019 19:07:03 GMT
Big Finish uses a shipping company that has very high rates. It's possible to ship things overseas from the UK for less money than they are paying and charging. I've certainly ordered things of equal size/value from the UK that cost a lot less to ship. Shipping prices are a huge factor in my decision to buy digital only most of the time, and sometimes I am even put off buying sale items on deep discount, as the shipping costs is often 4 times the price of the actual item.
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Post by chuckr on Mar 21, 2019 19:14:22 GMT
Wading in with two example and some numbers. I'm a long-time customer from Australia.
The 42 title supersub was offered in late 2015 (from memory) and again in early 2016. I set up a cancelled order on Jan 6th, 2016 to work out the pricing. At $325AU, on that date, the calculated cost was 158.96GBP. Equivalent to 3.78GBP per new release.
Or, in November 2014, for $95AU, you could get the entire 8th Doctor/Lucie Miller series. 52GBP for the entire set of adventures.
I can understand why Big Finish would want to change this - It's a significant loss of income. With the physical CD's, we're seeing Big Finish moving away from offering large amounts of stock. And although I'd love to buy the physical CDs, I honestly can't justify the additional cost.
Before I found the Big Finish site, I bought the early MR CDs (in 2001-2003) from Minotaur in Melbourne. For ~$40/CD. A CD subscription was a great lure to buy from Big Finish directly.
I'm not privy to the breakdown of UK based vs non-UK based customers, but it would be great to have true parity. In the end, we all want to support Big Finish, and see these ranges continue.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2019 19:21:38 GMT
Hmm. Since I am following other British pop-culture companies (for example Games Workshop, which is actually quite a good example because they have this implemented for years now)- I have been VERY surprised from the beginning that the pricing system was working out for BF. I just stopped questioning it. When I started up I was always wondering if the 1:1 pricing was actually right.
So they have finally caught up on it (or had someone with some economic sense look into their books).
I agree with everybody on here that this "sneaky behind the back" information policy is kind of rude and leaves a bad taste. Several ads on social media today but no information on this? Shame on you. Go to your room. However, I also understand that this needed changing (since even I had picked up on it ages ago and was wondering about it).
Well, since I am also often tight for money, this also means I will have to save money and buy less and wait for sales.
Right now, I am just happy I pre-ordered most of the things I was interested in for this year already, so that is not going to change.
Reading the reactions here, I am now mainly wondering one thing- Is Big Finish saving more money with this move than they lose by putting off overseas customers? This would be an interesting calculation. People here are right when they say that BF products are already very pricey (although in the same category as, for example, Black Library products), and when absolute nutters like myself have already come to the conclusion that they will have to cut back because of the pricing change, what will happen to casuals? Or will it drive up piracy even more than it already is?
Just asking.
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Post by masterdoctor on Mar 21, 2019 19:32:59 GMT
Hmm. Since I am following other British pop-culture companies (for example Games Workshop, which is actually quite a good example because they have this implemented for years now)- I have been VERY surprised from the beginning that the pricing system was working out for BF. I just stopped questioning it. When I started up I was always wondering if the 1:1 pricing was actually right. So they have finally caught up on it (or had someone with some economic sense look into their books). I agree with everybody on here that this "sneaky behind the back" information policy is kind of rude and leaves a bad taste. Several ads on social media today but no information on this? Shame on you. Go to your room. However, I also understand that this needed changing (since even I had picked up on it ages ago and was wondering about it). Well, since I am also often tight for money, this also means I will have to save money and buy less and wait for sales. Right now, I am just happy I pre-ordered most of the things I was interested in for this year already, so that is not going to change. Reading the reactions here, I am now mainly wondering one thing- Is Big Finish saving more money with this move than they lose by putting off overseas customers? This would be an interesting calculation. People here are right when they say that BF products are already very pricey (although in the same category as, for example, Black Library products), and when absolute nutters like myself have already come to the conclusion that they will have to cut back because of the pricing change, what will happen to casuals? Or will it drive up piracy even more than it already is? Just asking. Well said. I understand this move completely, but saying it is because of complaints from UK either is disingenuous or is disappointing that it was such a big deal. Like I had mentioned earlier, there is now very little incentive to buy download when it should be a cheaper alternative and it is almost exactly the same price as CD’s. It also upsets me, if that’s even the right word, that for a policy change supposedly in the name of parity, UK customers get perks like free shipping and 10% discounts unlike the rest of the world, which means those(supposedly) asking for parity, do so hypocritically and the true test would to extend the benefits to all or no one gets them. Because of this, the policy change seems less about parity for the UK. I also worry about piracy as well, this price jump will probably lead to more horrible practices... I truly believe this was a non-issue, and if it was, this is not the way to do it.
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Post by masterdoctor on Mar 21, 2019 19:37:10 GMT
Finally, I have to ask, did the 1:1 policy really effect UK customers? I see some felt it was unfair, but the fact that many jobs pay more or equally(numerically) in th uk than other countries caused me to question this. I also am disappointed that people gamed the system and kindness Big Finish showed to international countries. I don’t think it’s come into effect because UK customers have any issue with it. That seems like a little addition they’ve added to redirect the blame. You don’t see big rants about it all that often, for example. It’s always been a bizarre thing that Big Finish have done - completely unlike any other business - and is alongside the postage charges fiasco from a few years back as an appalling bit of business the company have done. Now it’s being dealt with in a secretive way that leaves a lot to be desired. It’s unfortunate for fans overseas, but I think it’s important to consider that you’re not at a disadvantage as such. It marks the end of essentially being able to take advantage of Big Finish’s bad business. We do suffer from similar issues here in the UK, with exchange rates and pricing. The popular things that immediately spring to mind are Apple and LEGO products. It’s the overseas postage and per order charge that Big Finish really want to be looking at from now on. I missed this originally, but well said. I do think that this is something people don’t often rant about publicly, but through emails. But we can’t be sure either way as there is an absence of proof on both sides. But you have fair points in general, so I do have to relent a bit in my stance on this issue.
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Post by Ela on Mar 21, 2019 19:39:43 GMT
Reading the reactions here, I am now mainly wondering one thing- Is Big Finish saving more money with this move than they lose by putting off overseas customers? This would be an interesting calculation. People here are right when they say that BF products are already very pricey (although in the same category as, for example, Black Library products), and when absolute nutters like myself have already come to the conclusion that they will have to cut back because of the pricing change, what will happen to casuals? Or will it drive up piracy even more than it already is? Just asking. That's a good question. People wondered the same about Big Finish losing sales from overseas customers when they drastically raised the shipping cost and added a per order fee for non-UK buyers. I have no idea how that worked out for them, as we are not privy to their sales records. For myself, I know it made me less willing to spend money on a physical products, for reasons I explained upthread.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2019 19:43:58 GMT
Hmm. Since I am following other British pop-culture companies (for example Games Workshop, which is actually quite a good example because they have this implemented for years now)- I have been VERY surprised from the beginning that the pricing system was working out for BF. I just stopped questioning it. When I started up I was always wondering if the 1:1 pricing was actually right. So they have finally caught up on it (or had someone with some economic sense look into their books). I agree with everybody on here that this "sneaky behind the back" information policy is kind of rude and leaves a bad taste. Several ads on social media today but no information on this? Shame on you. Go to your room. However, I also understand that this needed changing (since even I had picked up on it ages ago and was wondering about it). Well, since I am also often tight for money, this also means I will have to save money and buy less and wait for sales. Right now, I am just happy I pre-ordered most of the things I was interested in for this year already, so that is not going to change. Reading the reactions here, I am now mainly wondering one thing- Is Big Finish saving more money with this move than they lose by putting off overseas customers? This would be an interesting calculation. People here are right when they say that BF products are already very pricey (although in the same category as, for example, Black Library products), and when absolute nutters like myself have already come to the conclusion that they will have to cut back because of the pricing change, what will happen to casuals? Or will it drive up piracy even more than it already is? Just asking. Well said. I understand this move completely, but saying it is because of complaints from UK either is disingenuous or is disappointing that it was such a big deal. Like I had mentioned earlier, there is now very little incentive to buy download when it should be a cheaper alternative and it is almost exactly the same price as CD’s. It also upsets me, if that’s even the right word, that for a policy change supposedly in the name of parity, UK customers get perks like free shipping and 10% discounts unlike the rest of the world, which means those(supposedly) asking for parity, do so hypocritically and the true test would to extend the benefits to all or no one gets them. Because of this, the policy change seems less about parity for the UK. I also worry about piracy as well, this price jump will probably lead to more horrible practices... I truly believe this was a non-issue, and if it was, this is not the way to do it. I understand where you are coming from. I have, however, only ever bought a handful of physical releases since I have been living in different countries and was moving about and just had no space, so at least for me, the shipping is less of a worry.
I also did not read the news as if it was UK customers in particular who have complained, just that some crafty UK buggers exploited the system (was per usual, a few bastards spoil the party for everyone, what a surprise. This is why we can't have nice things I guess).
Well, looking at how long it took for BF to catch up on this, I do not really have much confidence in BF's business model and economic sense I am afraid. I just hope they won't maneuver themselves into a corner out of sheer "cleverness".
The whole move was a bit "awkward and clumsy" to say the least. I just hope they did some market research beforehand and they know what they are doing.
Scaring off overseas customers because of "Brexit panic" is not really going to help anyone...
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Post by masterdoctor on Mar 21, 2019 19:44:30 GMT
I guess ultimately, my question is to what extent should Big Finish apply parity to customers.
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Post by Digi on Mar 21, 2019 19:44:37 GMT
Finally, I have to ask, did the 1:1 policy really effect UK customers? I see some felt it was unfair, but the fact that many jobs pay more or equally(numerically) in th uk than other countries caused me to question this. I also am disappointed that people gamed the system and kindness Big Finish showed to international countries. I don’t think it’s come into effect because UK customers have any issue with it. That seems like a little addition they’ve added to redirect the blame. You don’t see big rants about it all that often, for example. It’s always been a bizarre thing that Big Finish have done - completely unlike any other business - and is alongside the postage charges fiasco from a few years back as an appalling bit of business the company have done. Now it’s being dealt with in a secretive way that leaves a lot to be desired. It’s unfortunate for fans overseas, but I think it’s important to consider that you’re not at a disadvantage as such. It marks the end of essentially being able to take advantage of Big Finish’s bad business.
We do suffer from similar issues here in the UK, with exchange rates and pricing. The popular things that immediately spring to mind are Apple and LEGO products. It’s the overseas postage and per order charge that Big Finish really want to be looking at from now on. On the contrary: if I'm paying $20 while making $50k/year in a $50k/year median economy, and you're paying £20 while making £50k/year in a £50k/year median economy--I am absolutely not 'taking advantage' of Big Finish, and I am being unfairly screwed if the prices are suddenly jacked up to $40 for me and left unchanged for you. (I use the 'royal you' here, shallacatop, I absolutely do not mean to be accusatory or mean-spirited towards you and hope that you won't take it as such )
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 21, 2019 20:04:13 GMT
I don’t think it’s come into effect because UK customers have any issue with it. That seems like a little addition they’ve added to redirect the blame. You don’t see big rants about it all that often, for example. It’s always been a bizarre thing that Big Finish have done - completely unlike any other business - and is alongside the postage charges fiasco from a few years back as an appalling bit of business the company have done. Now it’s being dealt with in a secretive way that leaves a lot to be desired. It’s unfortunate for fans overseas, but I think it’s important to consider that you’re not at a disadvantage as such. It marks the end of essentially being able to take advantage of Big Finish’s bad business.
We do suffer from similar issues here in the UK, with exchange rates and pricing. The popular things that immediately spring to mind are Apple and LEGO products. It’s the overseas postage and per order charge that Big Finish really want to be looking at from now on. On the contrary: if I'm paying $20 while making $50k/year in a $50k/year median economy, and you're paying £20 while making £50k/year in a £50k/year median economy--I am absolutely not 'taking advantage' of Big Finish, and I am being unfairly screwed if the prices are suddenly jacked up to $40 for me and left unchanged for you. (I use the 'royal you' here, shallacatop, I absolutely do not mean to be accusatory or mean-spirited towards you and hope that you won't take it as such ) I understand where you’re coming from, but that’s not how it tends to work, unfortunately. You could earn more in your economy than what I earn in mine once exchanged into the relevant currency. Ultimately, what’s going in Big Finish’s bank account is £20 from me and £11 from you, if we’re to take the Australian rate into account. That’s the “royal you”! And no offence intended whatsoever, in the same way I hope you don’t take offence at anything I say. I completely understand where you’re coming from with your points.
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Post by vivdunstan on Mar 21, 2019 20:09:34 GMT
The 1:1 pricing issue has been discussed a lot on Gallifrey Base in the past, with many posts, and some extremely heated views. I generally stayed out of it, but a lot of other UK based people were angry.
My suspicion is that Big Finish will lose out in the short term on sales, and longer term may have to adjust the download prices for everyone. Which might make them cheaper overall I think, albeit more expensive than at the moment for overseas folks.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2019 20:17:08 GMT
The 1:1 pricing issue has been discussed a lot on Gallifrey Base in the past, with many posts, and some extremely heated views. I generally stayed out of it, but a lot of other UK based people were angry. My suspicion is that Big Finish will lose out in the short term on sales, and longer term may have to adjust the download prices for everyone. Which might make them cheaper overall I think, albeit more expensive than at the moment for overseas folks. I am so happy I stay away from certain other forums... does wonders for keeping my temper and nerves....
Yeah, I think you are right with your long- term outlook.
Just a shock for us in the short term.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 20:22:20 GMT
I don’t think it’s come into effect because UK customers have any issue with it. That seems like a little addition they’ve added to redirect the blame. You don’t see big rants about it all that often, for example. It’s always been a bizarre thing that Big Finish have done - completely unlike any other business - and is alongside the postage charges fiasco from a few years back as an appalling bit of business the company have done. Now it’s being dealt with in a secretive way that leaves a lot to be desired. It’s unfortunate for fans overseas, but I think it’s important to consider that you’re not at a disadvantage as such. It marks the end of essentially being able to take advantage of Big Finish’s bad business.
We do suffer from similar issues here in the UK, with exchange rates and pricing. The popular things that immediately spring to mind are Apple and LEGO products. It’s the overseas postage and per order charge that Big Finish really want to be looking at from now on. On the contrary: if I'm paying $20 while making $50k/year in a $50k/year median economy, and you're paying £20 while making £50k/year in a £50k/year median economy--I am absolutely not 'taking advantage' of Big Finish, and I am being unfairly screwed if the prices are suddenly jacked up to $40 for me and left unchanged for you. (I use the 'royal you' here, shallacatop, I absolutely do not mean to be accusatory or mean-spirited towards you and hope that you won't take it as such ) I think shallacatop's point though is that this is the way the pricing system should always have been and as such the pricing was wrong from inception hence you having saved. It's really not the way things work to give the importer a cheaper price based on their economy - you pay based on the seller's market not your country's circumstances. When I order something from overseas the only time my address comes into play is the shipping, not the price of the product itself. That should rightly be a flat rate at current exchange rates. It's the way the global retail economy works, not sure why BF thought they were exempt from it... As more than one person - quite a few - have said now, literally no other company does it the way BF have been. The new status quo brings them into line with any other retailer who ships internationally. I think the communication has been awful and the explanation poor but as Tuigirl says it's more bizarre that BF ever thought it was a good idea in the first place as a blind man could see some countries were getting much better, and thus others much worse, deals. As to the point elsewhere about will this save BF more money than they would lose through overseas customers now not buying or pre-ordering....you've got to think someone has punched the projections and thinks it will or they wouldn't do it. But then you'd think they'd have a better shipping system for overseas orders in 2019 and you'd think a primary school kid could see the flaw with 1:1 static exchange rates!
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 21, 2019 20:28:30 GMT
On the contrary: if I'm paying $20 while making $50k/year in a $50k/year median economy, and you're paying £20 while making £50k/year in a £50k/year median economy--I am absolutely not 'taking advantage' of Big Finish, and I am being unfairly screwed if the prices are suddenly jacked up to $40 for me and left unchanged for you. (I use the 'royal you' here, shallacatop, I absolutely do not mean to be accusatory or mean-spirited towards you and hope that you won't take it as such ) I think shallacatop's point though is that this is the way the pricing system should always have been and as such the pricing was wrong from inception hence you having saved. It's really not the way things work to give the importer a cheaper price payed on their economy - you pay based on the seller,'s market not your country's circumstances. As more than one person - quite a few - have said now, literally no other company does it the way BF have been. The new status quo brings them into line with any other retailer who ships internationally. I think the communication has been awful and the explanation poor but as Tuigirl says it's more bizarre that BF ever thought it was a good idea in the first place as a blind man could see some countries were getting much better, and thus others much worse, deals. As to the point elsewhere about will this save BF more money than they would lose through overseas customers now not buying or pre-ordering....you've got to think someone has punched the projections and thinks it will or they wouldn't do it. But then you'd think they'd have a better shipping system for overseas orders in 2019 and you'd think a primary school kid could see the flaw with 1:1 static exchange rates! Yeah, well, as you said, I could see that there was something wrong a while back and I am notorious for my bad handling of finances and am chronically broke... THAT is what has me worried for this and future endeavours...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 20:33:49 GMT
I think shallacatop's point though is that this is the way the pricing system should always have been and as such the pricing was wrong from inception hence you having saved. It's really not the way things work to give the importer a cheaper price payed on their economy - you pay based on the seller,'s market not your country's circumstances. As more than one person - quite a few - have said now, literally no other company does it the way BF have been. The new status quo brings them into line with any other retailer who ships internationally. I think the communication has been awful and the explanation poor but as Tuigirl says it's more bizarre that BF ever thought it was a good idea in the first place as a blind man could see some countries were getting much better, and thus others much worse, deals. As to the point elsewhere about will this save BF more money than they would lose through overseas customers now not buying or pre-ordering....you've got to think someone has punched the projections and thinks it will or they wouldn't do it. But then you'd think they'd have a better shipping system for overseas orders in 2019 and you'd think a primary school kid could see the flaw with 1:1 static exchange rates! Yeah, well, as you said, I could see that there was something wrong a while back and I am notorious for my bad handling of finances and am chronically broke... THAT is what has me worried for this and future endeavours...
BF have always known this problem exists too, it was raised a lot when the Per Order charge came in as part of the wider debate on the old forum. They chose to ignore it then, presumably because doing the Per Order charge and this DL change at the same time would have killed the international sales.
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Post by Digi on Mar 21, 2019 20:41:09 GMT
On the contrary: if I'm paying $20 while making $50k/year in a $50k/year median economy, and you're paying £20 while making £50k/year in a £50k/year median economy--I am absolutely not 'taking advantage' of Big Finish, and I am being unfairly screwed if the prices are suddenly jacked up to $40 for me and left unchanged for you. (I use the 'royal you' here, shallacatop, I absolutely do not mean to be accusatory or mean-spirited towards you and hope that you won't take it as such ) It's really not the way things work to give the importer a cheaper price payed on their economy - you pay based on the seller,'s market not your country's circumstances. As more than one person - quite a few - have said now, literally no other company does it the way BF have been. The new status quo brings them into line with any other retailer who ships internationally. And I think that's flat-out incorrect. If Big Finish were some kind of boutique or etsy seller where everything was made to order or there were only 5 or 10 units being made in total, you'd be absolutely correct and I'd be right there alongside you. But they're not. They're a business that's selling the exact same product in multiple markets--which is kind of why I asked the question upthread a ways about other products being sold by other businesses selling products in multiple markets. If you're going to operate as a business selling a mass-produced product in an international market, you have to adjust pricing by sale area. Imposing a fixed, identical price on all areas regardless of economic circumstance is ludicrous. If McDonald's is running a store in a place where the only business is sweatshops that pay their workers 50 cents for a week's work, that store isn't going to do a great deal of business if they refuse to price their McMuffins at less than the 'standard' $4.50 per sandwich. I'm not working in a sweatshop for 50 cents a week, ( ) but the principle is the same, and equally as ludicrous.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 20:51:26 GMT
It's really not the way things work to give the importer a cheaper price payed on their economy - you pay based on the seller,'s market not your country's circumstances. As more than one person - quite a few - have said now, literally no other company does it the way BF have been. The new status quo brings them into line with any other retailer who ships internationally. And I think that's flat-out incorrect. If Big Finish were some kind of boutique or etsy seller where everything was made to order or there were only 5 or 10 units being made in total, you'd be absolutely correct and I'd be right there alongside you. But they're not. They're a business that's selling the exact same product in multiple markets--which is kind of why I asked the question upthread a ways about other products being sold by other businesses selling products in multiple markets. If you're going to operate as a business selling a mass-produced product in an international market, you have to adjust pricing by sale area. Imposing a fixed, identical price on all areas regardless of economic circumstance is ludicrous. If McDonald's is running a store in a place where the only business is sweatshops that pay their workers 50 cents for a week's work, that store isn't going to do a great deal of business if they refuse to price their McMuffins at less than the 'standard' $4.50. I'm not talking about boutiques either. If I buy a bluray from Amazon.com (decidedly the opposite of a small outlet) I pay the US price. Not a price adjusted by sale area- I pay the US one converted to UK currency. And McDonalds, correct me if I'm wrong, is franchised, the outlet that worker you talk about from the sweatshop isn't getting their order from the US, it's a domestic sale. Not so for you buying BF - you're importing a UK product, at a UK price, paying into the British economy. As Tuigirl says, she had to double check this way of BF doing things was right as it seemed to good to be true, turns out it was. BF overlooked it knowingly for years but all things must pass.
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Post by muckypup on Mar 21, 2019 20:54:27 GMT
The thing we are forgetting is has this 1:1 policy grown its overseas base as was intended or just maintained it with less funds coming in........as it’s ending I suspect the answer is not really.
But I suspect that by closing this policy down, be it to close a loophole, stop a perceived injustice or to sleathly raise prices.....in long term it will push up piracy certainly for overseas listeners and probally reduce income..........leading to less ranges and less releases.........
And to try and put a positive spin this might be better for us all, as some times you can have too much of a good thing......hehe
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Mar 21, 2019 20:59:22 GMT
Well, there goes a lot of my purchases, but hey sales are still a thing. Why? Do you still prefer CD?
Regards
mark687
Always will be a CD purchaser.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 21:02:47 GMT
The thing we are forgetting is has this 1:1 policy grown its overseas base as was intended or just maintained it with less funds coming in........as it’s ending I suspect the answer is not really. But I suspect that by closing this policy down, be it to close a loophole, stop a perceived injustice or to sleathly raise prices.....in long term it will push up piracy certainly for overseas listeners and probally reduce income..........leading to less ranges and less releases......... And to try and put a positive spin this might be better for us all, as some times you can have too much of a good thing......hehe You've got to hope someone has done their sums and come up with the rationale that this helps BF out financially as otherwise it'd be an insane move. I think, certainly short term, it'll decrease overseas pre-orders and see a lot more people waiting on sales. What BF must be hoping is that enough just accept it to cover the windfall of any lost revenue and then some. Eitherway just sliding this out and giving people 10 days notice isn't good. You could see the point if people had been doing something wrong but everyone here from overseas just paid what they were asked too. Now with no real notice I'd imagine a fair few will be panicking over how to get their pre-orders in or pay a lot more for them. It reflects poorly on BF. They should own it, rather than bury it. Devote a podcast to it, "we know this isn't good but here's why it had to be..../" etc. Saying "we've had complaints"...I don't remember this being an issue outside when the Per Order charge started. I don't know how many people used overseas fake addresses but surely if it were significant they should have improved checks on that, or take action against people knowingly committing fraud.
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