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Post by Digi on Mar 21, 2019 21:05:01 GMT
And I think that's flat-out incorrect. If Big Finish were some kind of boutique or etsy seller where everything was made to order or there were only 5 or 10 units being made in total, you'd be absolutely correct and I'd be right there alongside you. But they're not. They're a business that's selling the exact same product in multiple markets--which is kind of why I asked the question upthread a ways about other products being sold by other businesses selling products in multiple markets. If you're going to operate as a business selling a mass-produced product in an international market, you have to adjust pricing by sale area. Imposing a fixed, identical price on all areas regardless of economic circumstance is ludicrous. If McDonald's is running a store in a place where the only business is sweatshops that pay their workers 50 cents for a week's work, that store isn't going to do a great deal of business if they refuse to price their McMuffins at less than the 'standard' $4.50. I'm not talking about boutiques either. If I buy a bluray from Amazon.com (decidedly the opposite of a small outlet) I pay the US price. Not a price adjusted by sale area- I pay the US one converted to UK currency. And McDonalds, correct me if I'm wrong, is franchised, the outlet that worker you talk about from the sweatshop isn't getting their order from the US, it's a domestic sale. Not so for you buying BF - you're importing a UK product, at a UK price, paying into the British economy. As Tuigirl says, she had to double check this way of BF doing things was right as it seemed to good to be true, turns out it was. BF overlooked it knowingly for years but all things must pass. If you’re shopping on Amazon, you’re paying region-adjusted priding. American shoppers are on Amazon.com, paying prices that reflect the American economic realities. If you’re in UK, you’re on Amazon.co.uk, paying prices that reflect UK economic realities. It is not unrealistic or even remotely unusual to find a US Blu-ray set for $20 on .com and the same for £20 on .co.uk
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Mar 21, 2019 21:06:40 GMT
I think the download thing is fair enough, but isnt it about time BF sorted out the sky-high cost of shipping physical media to overseas destinations. Some of the prices you guys quote to Australia (etc) are eye watering. Many thanks, ljwilson (a.k.a. Cletus Jnr III from Alabama...when it suits) Are you from Australia too? Yes. I basically haven't bought a cd from BF in a couple years now. All the $ales are effectively null and void with the "per order charge" of AUST $11.94 . I pretty much only buy Spec Ed releases etc like the box sets- or whatever comes signed.
I will forever be a physical cd purchaser that will never change, it's my cost to bare. But.. wow..
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Post by randomcomments on Mar 21, 2019 21:09:56 GMT
This is really unfortunate news. What with shipping, their CDs (and other physical products) often double (or more!) the price of items which are already rather expensive. (This makes physical sales for impulse buys pretty impossible). Overseas folks basically have to do downloads for the most part. If the download costs are going to nearly double, too, I, for one, will be buying far less. Not out of animosity, it's just /everything/ is going to be prohibitively expensive now.
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Post by Star Platinum on Mar 21, 2019 21:14:44 GMT
This really hurts. Money has been tight so I’ve scaled back over the last few month.
Now if I want to pick up everything I’d like I’ve got to shell out about $400. After April that will be about $800.
This is going to kill all spinoffs for me. I’m even considering leaving by and just ordering directly from book depository. It’ll be a similar price, but at least I’d get something physical for it.
What they need to do is make the 10% discount universal. Otherwise it’s a middle finger to international buyers.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 21:25:00 GMT
I'm not talking about boutiques either. If I buy a bluray from Amazon.com (decidedly the opposite of a small outlet) I pay the US price. Not a price adjusted by sale area- I pay the US one converted to UK currency. And McDonalds, correct me if I'm wrong, is franchised, the outlet that worker you talk about from the sweatshop isn't getting their order from the US, it's a domestic sale. Not so for you buying BF - you're importing a UK product, at a UK price, paying into the British economy. As Tuigirl says, she had to double check this way of BF doing things was right as it seemed to good to be true, turns out it was. BF overlooked it knowingly for years but all things must pass. If you’re shopping on Amazon, you’re paying region-adjusted priding. American shoppers are on Amazon.com, paying prices that reflect the American economic realities. If you’re in UK, you’re on Amazon.co.uk, paying prices that reflect UK economic realities. It is not unrealistic or even remotely unusual to find a US Blu-ray set for $20 on .com and the same for £20 on .co.uk That's rather my point though - if I'm going overseas to make a purchase by using Amazon.com, I pay the price charged by that host country. As you would by shopping at Amazon.co.uk. You're buying from a UK seller in BF, they're going to now charge the UK price converted directly to USD, or AUS, or CAN etc. Paying prices that reflect the UK economic realities. Unless anyone actually thinks the pound, the Euro, the US, Canadian or Aus Dollars are equal - a straight 1:1 exchange makes zero sense. None whatsoever. If BF had a US site or store I can see the argument about having to fit in to an American pricing system but they don't. You're choosing to import their item, even digitally. I don't think there's a right or wrong here, I have zero issue with anyone getting BF for less and I wouldn't have complained in a million years, as long as I can keep up I'm happy. Indeed with the level of output now I think they should be looking at ways of rewarding those who support so much, and should certainly revise their shipping options ASAP. I think they should be the ones defending their polices though so anyone who does complain I hope you share any answers. I don't think there's anything much to be gained by us having the internal debate when it's BF who should be answering this kinda stuff. As I said above, it should be a podcast special rather than playing trailers everyone has heard already and it should be a news story, not buried. And yes, the 10% discount being made universal would be a good gesture though I'd remind people it doesn't apply to subs, bundles and pre-orders anyway so it's not a straight 10% everytime a Brit spends £50. Anyone who stays current with BF will scarcely use it. It really makes me sad to see people say "I'll have to cut way back" - again, it's not their fault this has happened and everyone has a budget. Though there may be valid reasons for this...it doesn't make your disposable income double.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 21:26:34 GMT
Must've happened a couple minutes ago, but the website now has a red banner leading to the notice. So, they're not trying to bury it at least. Still... It's not good news. It turns a single Monthly Release into a $52AUD purchase, not including tariffs and taxes, so any sort of physical media is well out now. That leaves the downloads. I can't jump right in before the price is raised because of how I'm paid, so there are a few orders/preorders which I'll just have to drop entirely. It pretty much curve-stomps plans I had to look into Ravenous.
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Post by muckypup on Mar 21, 2019 21:30:24 GMT
The thing we are forgetting is has this 1:1 policy grown its overseas base as was intended or just maintained it with less funds coming in........as it’s ending I suspect the answer is not really. But I suspect that by closing this policy down, be it to close a loophole, stop a perceived injustice or to sleathly raise prices.....in long term it will push up piracy certainly for overseas listeners and probally reduce income..........leading to less ranges and less releases......... And to try and put a positive spin this might be better for us all, as some times you can have too much of a good thing......hehe You've got to hope someone has done their sums and come up with the rationale that this helps BF out financially as otherwise it'd be an insane move. I think, certainly short term, it'll decrease overseas pre-orders and see a lot more people waiting on sales. What BF must be hoping is that enough just accept it to cover the windfall of any lost revenue and then some. Eitherway just sliding this out and giving people 10 days notice isn't good. You could see the point if people had been doing something wrong but everyone here from overseas just paid what they were asked too. Now with no real notice I'd imagine a fair few will be panicking over how to get their pre-orders in or pay a lot more for them. It reflects poorly on BF. They should own it, rather than bury it. Devote a podcast to it, "we know this isn't good but here's why it had to be..../" etc. Saying "we've had complaints"...I don't remember this being an issue outside when the Per Order charge started. I don't know how many people used overseas fake addresses but surely if it were significant they should have improved checks on that, or take action against people knowingly committing fraud. But it’s not really fraud......they paying what they are asked, big finish are still getting 60% of the cost.......and using aunty June’s address who emerigrated to Australia 20 years ago to get a big discount is understandable...... the stupid thing was, they try to hide policy changes is more criminal....... BF have Been about for twenty years and they increasing handle this stuff badly........weather its piracy, price rises, shipping, or discontinued bonuses or ranges......this sort of thing happens a lot....... i know of two people who won’t buy big finish stuff because of past actions i feel the right corse has been taken just not communicated well.......
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Post by randomcomments on Mar 21, 2019 21:40:11 GMT
In fairness, there's a big honking red banner on the site now.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 21, 2019 21:44:25 GMT
So as someone who mostly purchases CDs, I'm not going to be paying much more, right? I will say I think I have all of my digital gaps filled, so whew in that regard. It would be lovely if BF looked at the dreaded and rage inducing Per Order charge but that is probably a different subject.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Mar 21, 2019 21:45:24 GMT
As a Canadian all I can say is that this change in policy is unfortunate. Due to the significant increase in cost that this means to me, it is highly unlikely that I will be purchasing anything until it is on sale. The cost of everything is going up, but wages aren't. Thankfully I have already made the decision to drastically reduce the amount I purchase (dropped Torchwood for starters) and had planned to shift the bulk of my orders to sale items only, the rest has been pre-ordered for a while so I'm good for the next little while.
It seems to me that BF has significant issues in how it relays information of this nature to customers. Pricing increases (no matter the reason) are always going to be unwelcome by customers, but the way BF communicates them has been terrible. They give little notice and draft notifications that are not always well thought out. This one was better explained than when they upped the postage fees, though not by much. Frankly I think the line about U.K. customers gaming the system was poorly thought out and should have been avoided, all it does is raise more questions - some of which others have asked in this thread.
I deal with a number of companies which are smaller than BF and when they make changes to pricing or products, they send an email directly to clients so that everyone is aware, they also post the information to their website - though in a way that is more readily spotted than what BF has up right now. An email to customers would make sense - not everyone goes to the BF main page frequently, some have their bookmarks set to their account page.
While I don't think this move will cost BF customers (or at least not many), it will lead to many of us making significant changes in our buying habits. Cutting back the amount we buy and shifting to grabbing sales items only being obvious options to consider.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 21, 2019 21:52:27 GMT
Masters of business & public relations they are not.
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Post by vivdunstan on Mar 21, 2019 21:57:02 GMT
In fairness, there's a big honking red banner on the site now. Is that for overseas folks viewing the site? Cos I don’t see it myself. To be fair I’m not the person who does need to see it. I just hope that if they’re doing it geo-based it’s visible to everyone who needs to see it.
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Post by Digi on Mar 21, 2019 21:58:11 GMT
I think they should be the ones defending their polices though so anyone who does complain I hope you share any answers. I don't think there's anything much to be gained by us having the internal debate when it's BF who should be answering this kinda stuff. As I said above, it should be a podcast special rather than playing trailers everyone has heard already and it should be a news story, not buried. On that at least, we are in absolute agreement. It really makes me sad to see people say "I'll have to cut way back" - again, it's not their fault this has happened and everyone has a budget. Though there may be valid reasons for this...it doesn't make your disposable income double. Yeah...and I'm very sad to count myself among them =\
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Post by mark687 on Mar 21, 2019 21:59:05 GMT
So as someone who mostly purchases CDs, I'm not going to be paying much more, right? I will say I think I have all of my digital gaps filled, so whew in that regard. It would be lovely if BF looked at the dreaded and rage inducing Per Order charge but that is probably a different subject. As I understand it No but you've still got the Per Order charge and maybe shipping charges you get now
Regards
mark687
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Post by Digi on Mar 21, 2019 21:59:42 GMT
In fairness, there's a big honking red banner on the site now. Is that for overseas folks viewing the site? Cos I don’t see it myself. To be fair I’m not the person who does need to see it. I just hope that if they’re doing it geo-based it’s visible to everyone who needs to see it. On my browser it's kind of a dark brownish font atop the normal dark grey/blue background, so it's a bit hard to see. It's noticeable because it's bounced the page formatting slightly askew, but yeah...could be much clearer.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 21, 2019 22:08:22 GMT
The notice also appears at the top of the page of every sub-section on the web site. I do agree that this roll-out is marginally better than past policy changes but also agree every subscriber should have received an email by this point detailing the changes and a dedicated podcast on this subject with Jason & Nick would not be a bad idea. Oh and yes, the color of the banner could use a tweak so it stands out more and yes, listing "complaints from some people" as one of the reasons for the change is kind of lame and is poorly worded.
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Post by vivdunstan on Mar 21, 2019 22:17:54 GMT
The notice also appears at the top of the page of every sub-section on the web site. Definitely not seeing it myself. So again I'm wondering if it's something for overseas people to see.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Mar 21, 2019 22:23:02 GMT
The notice also appears at the top of the page of every sub-section on the web site. I do agree that this roll-out is marginally better than past policy changes but also agree every subscriber should have received an email by this point detailing the changes and a dedicated podcast on this subject with Jason & Nick would not be a bad idea. Oh and yes, the color of the banner could use a tweak so it stands out more and yes, listing "complaints from some people" as one of the reasons for the change is kind of lame and is poorly worded. It makes me wonder who wrote and approved the notice, as to me it would seem to be someone with no background in marketing or in public relations. Everyone who does business with companies in different countries is used to being hit with exchange rates, duties fees and crazy shipping fees, so I think it is safe to say for the most part price increases lead to grumbling and prioritizing purchases and not much else. BF needs to realize that there are ways to communicate these changes in a way which mitigates the backlash. I've done marketing and pr (heck, pr was a focus of my political science degree), BF's history in communicating policy changes would be great in class examples of how to do thing the wrong way.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Mar 21, 2019 22:27:47 GMT
The notice also appears at the top of the page of every sub-section on the web site. I do agree that this roll-out is marginally better than past policy changes but also agree every subscriber should have received an email by this point detailing the changes and a dedicated podcast on this subject with Jason & Nick would not be a bad idea. Oh and yes, the color of the banner could use a tweak so it stands out more and yes, listing "complaints from some people" as one of the reasons for the change is kind of lame and is poorly worded. It makes me wonder who wrote and approved the notice, as to me it would seem to be someone with no background in marketing or in public relations. Everyone who does business with companies in different countries is used to being hit with exchange rates, duties fees and crazy shipping fees, so I think it is safe to say for the most part price increases lead to grumbling and prioritizing purchases and not much else. BF needs to realize that there are ways to communicate these changes in a way which mitigates the backlash. I've done marketing and pr (heck, pr was a focus of my political science degree), BF's history in communicating policy changes would be great in class examples of how to do thing the wrong way. I mentioned this to David on Messenger but if Big Finish is an example of how Jason runs his other businesses,I'm frankly astonished he is a successful as he appears to be. It really is very often a master class in the wrong way to break bad news to your customer base.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 22:28:17 GMT
The notice also appears at the top of the page of every sub-section on the web site. I do agree that this roll-out is marginally better than past policy changes but also agree every subscriber should have received an email by this point detailing the changes and a dedicated podcast on this subject with Jason & Nick would not be a bad idea. Oh and yes, the color of the banner could use a tweak so it stands out more and yes, listing "complaints from some people" as one of the reasons for the change is kind of lame and is poorly worded. It makes me wonder who wrote and approved the notice, as to me it would seem to be someone with no background in marketing or in public relations. Everyone who does business with companies in different countries is used to being hit with exchange rates, duties fees and crazy shipping fees, so I think it is safe to say for the most part price increases lead to grumbling and prioritizing purchases and not much else. BF needs to realize that there are ways to communicate these changes in a way which mitigates the backlash. I've done marketing and pr (heck, pr was a focus of my political science degree), BF's history in communicating policy changes would be great in class examples of how to do thing the wrong way. Funny you say that. The paragraph that's caught my attention in the notice: Feels like a pretty solid counterargument to the new pricing scheme, so I'm experiencing a non sequitur moving from the fourth to fifth paragraph. Might just be where I'm standing, though.
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