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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 10:17:34 GMT
Complaint filed (ie: emailed Enquiries). I don't expect anything will change, but it never hurts to tell a business that they've done something absurd (so long as you say it nicely) and that their total lack of communication is deeply unprofessional (again, so long as you say it nicely).
Noting here that, despite claiming to reply to emails same day if received within business hours or within 48 hours if received outside, it is now 7 days/5 business days since I emailed them, and they haven't bothered to reply. Big Finish's commitment to communication continues to be outstanding EDIT: And in the interest of transparency, I'll let you folks decide whether you think I was so aggressive that I didn't merit a response:
{Spoiler}{Spoiler} Hello,
I'm writing today to express my dismay at your overseas pricing announcement. While I understand and respect the need for price increases over time to keep your company solvent, direct currency conversion to GBP is a nonsensical, poorly considered decision. For everyday people, your customers, cost of living among peer countries is more or less equal -- a £3 McMuffin is $3 in America, $3 in Canada, $3 in Australia, etc. This reality will be ignored in your new model -- £25 works out to nearly $40 where I live, for instance. If you were a frequent shopper for an item that costs £25, would you continue to buy it if on Monday afternoon the shop announced that starting Tuesday morning, that item will now cost £40?
Multiplying the price point for overseas customers does not level the playing field, nor does it make pricing more 'fair' to UK customers. Your own article indicates an increasing minority of UK residents engaging in price dodging by using false address information. It's hard to see this change in any other way than to punish international customers for the practices of UK domestic customers. A change this dramatic, paired with the ongoing trend toward less content per release (ie 3 disc sets rather than 4) escalates your products from being slightly pricey 'boutique' items (albeit worth every penny!), into simply being wildly overpriced for us non-UK folks.
I'm also very disappointed in Big Finish's continued failure to communicate with its customers. Some time ago, Big Finish announced price increases effective 1 November--and then never took the time to tell anyone what precisely that entailed. Then, just hours before what was widely anticipated to be an across-the-board price increase coming into effect, you've instead chosen to blindside effectively only your international customers. And even then, I only seem to be able to find this announcement via a Tweet. There is not one single mention of this anywhere in the month of October's updates on the Big Finish website, either as a standalone news item (as one would expect for a change of this magnitude), or even within any of the weekly update pages. I am astonished that this could go completely unreported on your own website.
Now, I've had to step back from my Big Finish purchases for some time now due to personal circumstances, so practically speaking this isn't going to have any immediate effect on my buying habits. But this predatory pricing scheme, combined with the lack of consideration shown to your customers, are experiences so overwhelmingly negative that it will influence my purchasing habits going forward. And while I hope that the company remains in good shape, I fear that I won't be the only international customer who feels misled, unfairly targeted, and priced out of the market based on reasoning that does not conform to reality.
Lastly...I wanted to make sure that I say: my one-on-one interactions with Big Finish staff over the years have been universally positive, including when I have emailed Enquiries in the past. I'm certain that you, the person reading this email, is not the person responsible for wider decision-making at the company, so I do apologize for making you be the one who is on the receiving end of this. You folks answering emails at Enquires, Sales, and so forth have been nothing but kind and helpful to me, and I am grateful to you for the work you do.
Regards, (my name)
FWIW, this recent mention of people cheating the system geographically came out of nowhere and feels like another attempt to justify a decision they told us was being made anyway. It's...like they found new evidence after the verdict was already in. Feels, not for the first time, like B.S. (Piracy specifically killed Sapphire & Steel being a classic of this. For some reason illegal downloaders LOVED them some relatively obscure ITV drama revival!). And it's also nonsense. I've worked in fraud prevention in insurance and you can tell very easily when someone is "fronting" (using false info for better rates). This CAN be done manually but services like Worldpay and Paypal will also tell you the country of origin of the funding source to avoid fraud. We've all heard the "the call may be recorded to monitor fraud" automated messages. This is why. And frankly, even saying "and some people took advantage of it!" just makes "So..why was it the policy?" an even more obvious question. I think the frustration is they can't just be honest and say they were idiots in this regards from day one. I ordered a bluray from Imprint Films in Australia last week. I do a LOT of importing from Oz with Imprint and Umbrella two terrific boutique film labels. I paid the AUS$ fee converted to pounds sterling directly. Pricy but that's what I need to do to get the bluray. I pay it..or I don't. That's the offer from every other company. If Imprint for YEARS set expectations that their releases were worth less than that because of a completely failure to understand economics then that would be on them. It would be their right to alter course, as BF have done, but that's almost a separate issue now. You condition people that "this is our product, it costs X..." for years? They are going to come round to believing that's the value. Because you made them believe that. As to their right to alter it? Well, it IS parity now. Just like my Imprint purchase, it's the price across the board converted so the company make the same from me here but you domestically. If the absolutely logical notion of "It's a UK product, you pay the price converted to your local currency.." had been, as WITH Imprint and...oh, just about every company...the case since day one? No-one would have a right to take umbrage. Sure they could say "too expensive for me" but they couldn't criticise the policy itself. I import a lot because varied markets have different prices for identical products. That's fine, I'm paying the domestic fee from the country of origin. I don't get a screen to say "OK..albums in the UK cost X, so...we're charging you less for this as....well, you're used to it, well done". But that screen (not literally) has been part of BF's policy for YEARS. That they mention this was a general price rise only for it to be about something else entirely is also pretty shady at best. "All will be revealed in November" we were told. Well, all we know is "Some releases will cost more, can't say which ones". That's the extent of the November price raise news they told people was coming. And we know what ones. The 60th special is gonna cost more than...Class Vol. 24. Well...wait...this is BF marketing..let's not assume that's correct! We expected this to be a furthering of when boxsets raised from £20 to £23. That's fine. Costs increase over time. That they let us all think thats what this was only for it to be the old international issue? That's deplorable. No wonder they just replied "Wait till November" when people asked "What kind of rise, should I panic buy?" - because it was a LIE. A lie that made people on here and elsewhere stock up on items they now find they didn't need to worry about buying. Omnishambles. There's also this undercurrent of "well, you people overseas have been underpaying". Well, true...IF that's what they knew to be the case. But you've all just been presented with prices and said yay or nay. Just as I have as a domestic customer. The more insidious part is the notion that you should be grateful they DID make the mistake for so long and didn't fix it post 2019 like they said so you got away with it even longer. It BAFFLES that they cannot understand why people overseas are so pissed to make further comment. Countries who are paying more NOW have saved more due to the pricing fiasco. People who have posted to say its barely an increase at all? They benefitted less as they paid closer to UK parity with their currency closer to the pound. It almost feels like it's been BF lottery with people "winning" or "losing" for years depending on the value of their domestic currency. HOW DID NO-ONE AT BF NOTICE THIS? I just...I come back to in what universe does someone believe all currencies are the same value? Did no accountant ever say "You DO know a pound, a Euro, a yen, a dollar (etc) are worth different amounts and that's why there's not a global currency?" How did Jason ever become a successful businessman? Seriously, my 8 year old nephew knows he needs to convert his pocket money when he is going on holiday. A disaster for BF all over. And lies that this was about a general price increase which had the by product of them picking up LOTS of panic purcahses. And most damningly, a refusal to comment further. A disaster? More a disgrace. I think the only way they could address this? And there was no easy way. To come clean and say "We were idiots who didn't factor in exchange rates and then we were cowards who tried to bury this as being about something else but that kinda worked out for us as we RACKED up panic sales". OK..I would perhaps let them paraphrase! But that's the truth in two sentences. It now can't go back the way or they would lose even more buyers domestically. How have they gotten away with being SO inept? I can only imagine a diehard fanbase. Niche, sure, but niche fans are loyal. So will they comment further? Will they have the gall to upload podcasts talking about favourite crisps when all this has gone on? It's BF. Only a fool would second guess. I never received a response, nor did others, when BF said explicitly Stranded would not reflect COVID as it was too recent and raw and they didn't want to lose escapism that many of us need and certainly needed from lockdowns. They backtracked on that too. And ignored emails. Because some questions are difficult to answer and its easier to hit "recycle bin". I used to adore BF. As a very early fan I used to get the Christmas card hand signed by all the team with newly comissioned art that was BEAUTIFUL. Jason, Nick, Sue..all would stick a signature in, and if there was an actor about, them too (my Dalek in the snow one is signed by Paul McGann and Ruth Bradley). It was...sweet to receive it. Felt like being more than a customer. Yet the last years have made me say..no, I'm not a Big Finish fan. I'm a fan of their actors, writers, directors, sound artists, composers etc, who take many franchises I love and expand them. But Big Finish as an entity has never felt more cold and distant. I miss those days when I'd get an email from Ian saying what he thought of the Matt era so far, or when a mistake WAS made like the licences for a bunch of shows vanishing overnight and being pulled from sale, it felt...innocent, not inept. They DID seem to care. Now it feels like we're all numbers and out in the cold just as much as the aforementioned Dalek in the snow! A rant, for sure, but I hope one that resonates with a lot.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 8, 2022 10:29:41 GMT
Well, Amen! to that, too, @davygallagher
Sadly I can see them being served their just desserts soon, since they have pushed away many of their foreign customers. The reckoning is coming and they will not like what they see. Yes, someone said foreign market is „only“ 20% of the BF customers, but losing a large proportion of 20% of revenue? That is massive.
And I agree, I am thoroughly unimpressed at the way this was handled. I still am, however, as you say, still a admirer of their creative talent. I just hope all of them weather the oncoming storm.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 8, 2022 10:30:42 GMT
Noting here that, despite claiming to reply to emails same day if received within business hours or within 48 hours if received outside, it is now 7 days/5 business days since I emailed them, and they haven't bothered to reply. Big Finish's commitment to communication continues to be outstanding EDIT: And in the interest of transparency, I'll let you folks decide whether you think I was so aggressive that I didn't merit a response:
{Spoiler}{Spoiler} Hello,
I'm writing today to express my dismay at your overseas pricing announcement. While I understand and respect the need for price increases over time to keep your company solvent, direct currency conversion to GBP is a nonsensical, poorly considered decision. For everyday people, your customers, cost of living among peer countries is more or less equal -- a £3 McMuffin is $3 in America, $3 in Canada, $3 in Australia, etc. This reality will be ignored in your new model -- £25 works out to nearly $40 where I live, for instance. If you were a frequent shopper for an item that costs £25, would you continue to buy it if on Monday afternoon the shop announced that starting Tuesday morning, that item will now cost £40?
Multiplying the price point for overseas customers does not level the playing field, nor does it make pricing more 'fair' to UK customers. Your own article indicates an increasing minority of UK residents engaging in price dodging by using false address information. It's hard to see this change in any other way than to punish international customers for the practices of UK domestic customers. A change this dramatic, paired with the ongoing trend toward less content per release (ie 3 disc sets rather than 4) escalates your products from being slightly pricey 'boutique' items (albeit worth every penny!), into simply being wildly overpriced for us non-UK folks.
I'm also very disappointed in Big Finish's continued failure to communicate with its customers. Some time ago, Big Finish announced price increases effective 1 November--and then never took the time to tell anyone what precisely that entailed. Then, just hours before what was widely anticipated to be an across-the-board price increase coming into effect, you've instead chosen to blindside effectively only your international customers. And even then, I only seem to be able to find this announcement via a Tweet. There is not one single mention of this anywhere in the month of October's updates on the Big Finish website, either as a standalone news item (as one would expect for a change of this magnitude), or even within any of the weekly update pages. I am astonished that this could go completely unreported on your own website.
Now, I've had to step back from my Big Finish purchases for some time now due to personal circumstances, so practically speaking this isn't going to have any immediate effect on my buying habits. But this predatory pricing scheme, combined with the lack of consideration shown to your customers, are experiences so overwhelmingly negative that it will influence my purchasing habits going forward. And while I hope that the company remains in good shape, I fear that I won't be the only international customer who feels misled, unfairly targeted, and priced out of the market based on reasoning that does not conform to reality.
Lastly...I wanted to make sure that I say: my one-on-one interactions with Big Finish staff over the years have been universally positive, including when I have emailed Enquiries in the past. I'm certain that you, the person reading this email, is not the person responsible for wider decision-making at the company, so I do apologize for making you be the one who is on the receiving end of this. You folks answering emails at Enquires, Sales, and so forth have been nothing but kind and helpful to me, and I am grateful to you for the work you do.
Regards, (my name)
FWIW, this recent mention of people cheating the system geographically came out of nowhere and feels like another attempt to justify a decision they told us was being made anyway. It's...like they found new evidence after the verdict was already in. Feels, not for the first time, like B.S. (Piracy specifically killed Sapphire & Steel being a classic of this. For some reason illegal downloaders LOVED them some relatively obscure ITV drama revival!). And it's also nonsense. I've worked in fraud prevention in insurance and you can tell very easily when someone is "fronting" (using false info for better rates). This CAN be done manually but services like Worldpay and Paypal will also tell you the country of origin of the funding source to avoid fraud. We've all heard the "the call may be recorded to monitor fraud" automated messages. This is why. And frankly, even saying "and some people took advantage of it!" just makes "So..why was it the policy?" an even more obvious question. I think the frustration is they can't just be honest and say they were idiots in this regards from day one. I ordered a bluray from Imprint Films in Australia last week. I do a LOT of importing from Oz with Imprint and Umbrella two terrific boutique film labels. I paid the AUS$ fee converted to pounds sterling directly. Pricy but that's what I need to do to get the bluray. I pay it..or I don't. That's the offer from every other company. If Imprint for YEARS set expectations that their releases were worth less than that because of a completely failure to understand economics then that would be on them. It would be their right to alter course, as BF have done, but that's almost a separate issue now. You condition people that "this is our product, it costs X..." for years? They are going to come round to believing that's the value. Because you made them believe that. As to their right to alter it? Well, it IS parity now. Just like my Imprint purchase, it's the price across the board converted so the company make the same from me here but you domestically. If the absolutely logical notion of "It's a UK product, you pay the price converted to your local currency.." had been, as WITH Imprint and...oh, just about every company...the case since day one? No-one would have a right to take umbrage. Sure they could say "too expensive for me" but they couldn't criticise the policy itself. I import a lot because varied markets have different prices for identical products. That's fine, I'm paying the domestic fee from the country of origin. I don't get a screen to say "OK..albums in the UK cost X, so...we're charging you less for this as....well, you're used to it, well done". But that screen (not literally) has been part of BF's policy for YEARS. That they mention this was a general price rise only for it to be about something else entirely is also pretty shady at best. "All will be revealed in November" we were told. Well, all we know is "Some releases will cost more, can't say which ones". That's the extent of the November price raise news they told people was coming. And we know what ones. The 60th special is gonna cost more than...Class Vol. 24. Well...wait...this is BF marketing..let's not assume that's correct! We expected this to be a furthering of when boxsets raised from £20 to £23. That's fine. Costs increase over time. That they let us all think thats what this was only for it to be the old international issue? That's deplorable. No wonder they just replied "Wait till November" when people asked "What kind of rise, should I panic buy?" - because it was a LIE. A lie that made people on here and elsewhere stock up on items they now find they didn't need to worry about buying. Omnishambles. There's also this undercurrent of "well, you people overseas have been underpaying". Well, true...IF that's what they knew to be the case. But you've all just been presented with prices and said yay or nay. Just as I have as a domestic customer. The more insidious part is the notion that you should be grateful they DID make the mistake for so long and didn't fix it post 2019 like they said so you got away with it even longer. It BAFFLES that they cannot understand why people overseas are so pissed to make further comment. Countries who are paying more NOW have saved more due to the pricing fiasco. People who have posted to say its barely an increase at all? They benefitted less as they paid closer to UK parity with their currency closer to the pound. It almost feels like it's been BF lottery with people "winning" or "losing" for years depending on the value of their domestic currency. HOW DID NO-ONE AT BF NOTICE THIS? I just...I come back to in what universe does someone believe all currencies are the same value? Did no accountant ever say "You DO know a pound, a Euro, a yen, a dollar (etc) are worth different amounts and that's why there's not a global currency?" How did Jason ever become a successful businessman? Seriously, my 8 year old nephew knows he needs to convert his pocket money when he is going on holiday. A disaster for BF all over. And lies that this was about a general price increase which had the by product of them picking up LOTS of panic purcahses. And most damningly, a refusal to comment further. A disaster? More a disgrace. I think the only way they could address this? And there was no easy way. To come clean and say "We were idiots who didn't factor in exchange rates and then we were cowards who tried to bury this as being about something else but that kinda worked out for us as we RACKED up panic sales". OK..I would perhaps let them paraphrase! But that's the truth in two sentences. It now can't go back the way or they would lose even more buyers domestically. How have they gotten away with being SO inept? I can only imagine a diehard fanbase. Niche, sure, but niche fans are loyal. So will they comment further? Will they have the gall to upload podcasts talking about favourite crisps when all this has gone on? It's BF. Only a fool would second guess. I never received a response, nor did others, when BF said explicitly Stranded would not reflect COVID as it was too recent and raw and they didn't want to lose escapism that many of us need and certainly needed from lockdowns. They backtracked on that too. And ignored emails. Because some questions are difficult to answer and its easier to hit "recycle bin". I used to adore BF. As a very early fan I used to get the Christmas card hand signed by all the team with newly comissioned art that was BEAUTIFUL. Jason, Nick, Sue..all would stick a signature in, and if there was an actor about, them too (my Dalek in the snow one is signed by Paul McGann and Ruth Bradley). It was...sweet to receive it. Felt like being more than a customer. Yet the last years have made me say..no, I'm not a Big Finish fan. I'm a fan of their actors, writers, directors, sound artists, composers etc, who take many franchises I love and expand them. But Big Finish as an entity has never felt more cold and distant. I miss those days when I'd get an email from Ian saying what he thought of the Matt era so far, or when a mistake WAS made like the licences for a bunch of shows vanishing overnight and being pulled from sale, it felt...innocent, not inept. They DID seem to care. Now it feels like we're all numbers and out in the cold just as much as the aforementioned Dalek in the snow! A rant, for sure, but I hope one that resonates with a lot.
... Can I print your response and frame it? Seriously.. This ^ ..
Just.. wow. Beautifully yet truthfully said.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 10:38:53 GMT
FWIW, this recent mention of people cheating the system geographically came out of nowhere and feels like another attempt to justify a decision they told us was being made anyway. It's...like they found new evidence after the verdict was already in. Feels, not for the first time, like B.S. (Piracy specifically killed Sapphire & Steel being a classic of this. For some reason illegal downloaders LOVED them some relatively obscure ITV drama revival!). And it's also nonsense. I've worked in fraud prevention in insurance and you can tell very easily when someone is "fronting" (using false info for better rates). This CAN be done manually but services like Worldpay and Paypal will also tell you the country of origin of the funding source to avoid fraud. We've all heard the "the call may be recorded to monitor fraud" automated messages. This is why. And frankly, even saying "and some people took advantage of it!" just makes "So..why was it the policy?" an even more obvious question. I think the frustration is they can't just be honest and say they were idiots in this regards from day one. I ordered a bluray from Imprint Films in Australia last week. I do a LOT of importing from Oz with Imprint and Umbrella two terrific boutique film labels. I paid the AUS$ fee converted to pounds sterling directly. Pricy but that's what I need to do to get the bluray. I pay it..or I don't. That's the offer from every other company. If Imprint for YEARS set expectations that their releases were worth less than that because of a completely failure to understand economics then that would be on them. It would be their right to alter course, as BF have done, but that's almost a separate issue now. You condition people that "this is our product, it costs X..." for years? They are going to come round to believing that's the value. Because you made them believe that. As to their right to alter it? Well, it IS parity now. Just like my Imprint purchase, it's the price across the board converted so the company make the same from me here but you domestically. If the absolutely logical notion of "It's a UK product, you pay the price converted to your local currency.." had been, as WITH Imprint and...oh, just about every company...the case since day one? No-one would have a right to take umbrage. Sure they could say "too expensive for me" but they couldn't criticise the policy itself. I import a lot because varied markets have different prices for identical products. That's fine, I'm paying the domestic fee from the country of origin. I don't get a screen to say "OK..albums in the UK cost X, so...we're charging you less for this as....well, you're used to it, well done". But that screen (not literally) has been part of BF's policy for YEARS. That they mention this was a general price rise only for it to be about something else entirely is also pretty shady at best. "All will be revealed in November" we were told. Well, all we know is "Some releases will cost more, can't say which ones". That's the extent of the November price raise news they told people was coming. And we know what ones. The 60th special is gonna cost more than...Class Vol. 24. Well...wait...this is BF marketing..let's not assume that's correct! We expected this to be a furthering of when boxsets raised from £20 to £23. That's fine. Costs increase over time. That they let us all think thats what this was only for it to be the old international issue? That's deplorable. No wonder they just replied "Wait till November" when people asked "What kind of rise, should I panic buy?" - because it was a LIE. A lie that made people on here and elsewhere stock up on items they now find they didn't need to worry about buying. Omnishambles. There's also this undercurrent of "well, you people overseas have been underpaying". Well, true...IF that's what they knew to be the case. But you've all just been presented with prices and said yay or nay. Just as I have as a domestic customer. The more insidious part is the notion that you should be grateful they DID make the mistake for so long and didn't fix it post 2019 like they said so you got away with it even longer. It BAFFLES that they cannot understand why people overseas are so pissed to make further comment. Countries who are paying more NOW have saved more due to the pricing fiasco. People who have posted to say its barely an increase at all? They benefitted less as they paid closer to UK parity with their currency closer to the pound. It almost feels like it's been BF lottery with people "winning" or "losing" for years depending on the value of their domestic currency. HOW DID NO-ONE AT BF NOTICE THIS? I just...I come back to in what universe does someone believe all currencies are the same value? Did no accountant ever say "You DO know a pound, a Euro, a yen, a dollar (etc) are worth different amounts and that's why there's not a global currency?" How did Jason ever become a successful businessman? Seriously, my 8 year old nephew knows he needs to convert his pocket money when he is going on holiday. A disaster for BF all over. And lies that this was about a general price increase which had the by product of them picking up LOTS of panic purcahses. And most damningly, a refusal to comment further. A disaster? More a disgrace. I think the only way they could address this? And there was no easy way. To come clean and say "We were idiots who didn't factor in exchange rates and then we were cowards who tried to bury this as being about something else but that kinda worked out for us as we RACKED up panic sales". OK..I would perhaps let them paraphrase! But that's the truth in two sentences. It now can't go back the way or they would lose even more buyers domestically. How have they gotten away with being SO inept? I can only imagine a diehard fanbase. Niche, sure, but niche fans are loyal. So will they comment further? Will they have the gall to upload podcasts talking about favourite crisps when all this has gone on? It's BF. Only a fool would second guess. I never received a response, nor did others, when BF said explicitly Stranded would not reflect COVID as it was too recent and raw and they didn't want to lose escapism that many of us need and certainly needed from lockdowns. They backtracked on that too. And ignored emails. Because some questions are difficult to answer and its easier to hit "recycle bin". I used to adore BF. As a very early fan I used to get the Christmas card hand signed by all the team with newly comissioned art that was BEAUTIFUL. Jason, Nick, Sue..all would stick a signature in, and if there was an actor about, them too (my Dalek in the snow one is signed by Paul McGann and Ruth Bradley). It was...sweet to receive it. Felt like being more than a customer. Yet the last years have made me say..no, I'm not a Big Finish fan. I'm a fan of their actors, writers, directors, sound artists, composers etc, who take many franchises I love and expand them. But Big Finish as an entity has never felt more cold and distant. I miss those days when I'd get an email from Ian saying what he thought of the Matt era so far, or when a mistake WAS made like the licences for a bunch of shows vanishing overnight and being pulled from sale, it felt...innocent, not inept. They DID seem to care. Now it feels like we're all numbers and out in the cold just as much as the aforementioned Dalek in the snow! A rant, for sure, but I hope one that resonates with a lot.
... Can I print your response and frame it? Seriously.. This ^ ..
Just.. wow. Beautifully yet truthfully said.
I'll be selling signed copies through my Youtube channel. £20 each....or $739 AUS. (not including shipping) (and boy, I didn't even touch on the shipping debacle of a few years back with the "We've actually lost money sending items you know.." nonsense as though that was not their own bloody fault!
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 8, 2022 10:38:58 GMT
My worry is that they will lose so much revenue from international customers that they will be forced to recoup some of that money by putting up prices for UK customers.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 8, 2022 10:42:28 GMT
... Can I print your response and frame it? Seriously.. This ^ ..
Just.. wow. Beautifully yet truthfully said.
I'll be selling signed copies through my Youtube channel. £20 each....or $739 AUS. (not including shipping) (and boy, I didn't even touch on the shipping debacle of a few years back with the "We've actually lost money sending items you know.." nonsense as though that was not their own bloody fault! Oh the postage and handling alone for all the vinyls I have bought through them.. PHEW!
And another zinger from you ^ "we've actually lost money..." I had forgotten about that one!
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Post by mark687 on Nov 8, 2022 10:49:34 GMT
My worry is that they will lose so much revenue from international customers that they will be forced to recoup some of that money by putting up prices for UK customers. Well we already know their changing for all on releases yet to be announced on "a release by release basis" and today's AWOL's release still had . All the above prices include the special pre-order discount and are subject to change after general release. From November 2022, new pre-order prices will apply for unreleased box sets. on it. Regards mark687
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 10:51:15 GMT
My worry is that they will lose so much revenue from international customers that they will be forced to recoup some of that money by putting up prices for UK customers. Which is of course what they've said they are reserving the right to do anyway and is what we expected was actually last week's announcement, the new price stricture. That they won't come up with a new price model is also a pretty bad idea and just leads to the notion some have already expressed of "are they going to try and gauge based on popularity of the character not cost or production?" (ie. would a Tennant set cost more than a Colin one just because he is David Tennant?) Sure, some more deluxe items would cost more case by case but that's fine. To use blurays again as an example, Arrow Video put out deluxe boxsets of cult and classic movies. The price is not fixed - it depends on the contents. From the disc amount, to the miscellany like posters, postcards, pins etc. BUT when they release a perfectly standard one disc bluray? RRP is £18. That doesn't alter. BF have made a very vague "it will be case by case" statement that helps no-one. It's a non-announcement.
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 8, 2022 11:23:45 GMT
Superb post @davygallagher! My worry is that they will lose so much revenue from international customers that they will be forced to recoup some of that money by putting up prices for UK customers. Arguably that’s what has happened already. If they’d sorted their overseas pricing out from the start, then we may not have had price increases of recent years. Or may not be having this discussion now about the increases they’ve yet to announce. That’s not to say the prices wouldn’t have increased - that’s just part and parcel of business - but less of a rise and more targeted certainly. It’ll be very interesting to see how it all pans out over the next few months. There’ll be a decrease in international sales definitely but financially Big Finish may find themselves no worse off. It depends entirely if, say, 50% price increase reflects as buying 50% less product. It will absolutely alter the scope of their releases, though, and I think we will see less spin-offs and perhaps less success for the recasts, etc. Almost like reverting back to the Big Finish of old, albeit with their attitudes of recent years.
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Post by sherlock on Nov 8, 2022 11:55:00 GMT
Big Finish’s business decisions do baffle me. Simultaneously this exchange rate correction is so urgent for their finances it needs to happen now whilst also they’ve been able to have it on backburner for three years presumably so their PR team try to figure out a way of making it palatable, cos they are pathologically afraid of putting out bad news. As it turned out said way turned out to be a giant con with the threat of increases across the board.
In fairness, I get this correction was needed. It was baffling Big Finish didn’t take exchange rates into account in the first place - and that it took them 20 years to figure this out! I get that it stings international customers badly, but that’s just international purchases in a nutshell. It’s Big Finish's attempt to mask this decision after three years of not having the courage to own it that really irks me. Be honest with your customers.
If Big Finish really is afraid of their finances what really baffles me if why they are still making so. much. content. It’s rare for a month to pass with less than five releases! Before unilaterally jacking up prices and shoving the burden on customers, maybe just maybe they need to look at letting up on the production side of things.
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Post by cjr on Nov 8, 2022 11:56:25 GMT
I’ve kept starting to write, paused and then deleted for the last few days. Mostly, I’m upset. The bait and switch. The outright lying that pricing was going up for pre-orders on Nov. 1st. And each time that I see the price of the releases, I shudder. I’ve supported buying from BF since about 2000. I used to buy from Minotaur books in Melbourne. This has never been a cheap hobby. And I never found myself attacking the logic behind the inspiration for a story or box set. But akin to St Paul after his blindness on the way to Damascus, the scales have fallen from my eyes. I’ll be much more discerning going forward. Not enamoured of Vienna, or Class, or whatever? Simple. Not buying the stories.
Would I suggest much of the current output to a new listener? No. The production values are great. The sound design, wonderful. Many of the stories? A bit like the recovered unused footage from episode 6 of Fury from the Deep. An interesting novelty, but not a substitute for the real thing. Most of the stories I absolutely adore are from the first 5-10 years of BF. When BF was all the Doctor Who we would get. And that gave BF a lot of leeway. But times, and our economy have changed. Going forwards, I’ll only order what’s top shelf. The rest of it I leave to those of you with more disposable income.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 8, 2022 12:17:51 GMT
My worry is that they will lose so much revenue from international customers that they will be forced to recoup some of that money by putting up prices for UK customers. Oh, tag, you are it then. As I said, the price did not go up for me as much, but Germany is only a minute niche market. Losing much of the customer base ( except like for crazy people like aussiedoctorwhofan ) from Oz and Canada however will sting a lot. I cannot see many people shelling out 50$ for a normal boxset anymore, I am afraid. Not at the moment. So yeah, be prepared to also do you bit in paying the bill for incompetence.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 8, 2022 12:18:57 GMT
Big Finish’s business decisions do baffle me. Simultaneously this exchange rate correction is so urgent for their finances it needs to happen now whilst also they’ve been able to have it on backburner for three years presumably so their PR team try to figure out a way of making it palatable, cos they are pathologically afraid of putting out bad news. As it turned out said way turned out to be a giant con with the threat of increases across the board. In fairness, I get this correction was needed. It was baffling Big Finish didn’t take exchange rates into account in the first place - and that it took them 20 years to figure this out! I get that it stings international customers badly, but that’s just international purchases in a nutshell. It’s Big Finish's attempt to mask this decision after three years of not having the courage to own it that really irks me. Be honest with your customers. If Big Finish really is afraid of their finances what really baffles me if why they are still making so. much. content. It’s rare for a month to pass with less than five releases! Before unilaterally jacking up prices and shoving the burden on customers, maybe just maybe they need to look at letting up on the production side of things. Good points.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 8, 2022 12:19:35 GMT
Big Finish’s business decisions do baffle me. Simultaneously this exchange rate correction is so urgent for their finances it needs to happen now whilst also they’ve been able to have it on backburner for three years presumably so their PR team try to figure out a way of making it palatable, cos they are pathologically afraid of putting out bad news. As it turned out said way turned out to be a giant con with the threat of increases across the board. No one will ever like a price rise, but there are ways to make it more palatable that don't require a marketing or financial genius. Be up front, tell customers what is going to happen and when, giving them a few weeks' notice. That's really not difficult. The other possibility in the specific case of the FX rate was a phased increase - instead of jumping overnight from 1:1 to the market spot rate, announce on 1 November that they are phasing it in over time and that from 1 January 2023 they are moving to 1:1.05. Then, on 1 May 2023 announce they are moving to 1:1.10 with effect from 1 July, etc. The exact increase at each stage would need to be looked at on a currency-by-currency basis, and the final destination in 2024 might be a new system of quarterly reviews to be in and around the market rate. I've worked for companies that have done things like this - it's not rocket science.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,819
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Post by lidar2 on Nov 8, 2022 12:24:45 GMT
In fairness, I get this correction was needed. It was baffling Big Finish didn’t take exchange rates into account in the first place - and that it took them 20 years to figure this out! I get that it stings international customers badly, but that’s just international purchases in a nutshell. It’s Big Finish's attempt to mask this decision after three years of not having the courage to own it that really irks me. Be honest with your customers. This is the thing - they deliberately and consciously adopted the 1:1 FX policy around 2013/4. At the time it was announced we discussed it and debated it on the old BF forum - many of the points made there are the points that have subsequently been made over the years - unfairness to UK customers, loss of revenue to BF, etc. At the time there was the usual radio silence from BF and the forum debate went on for 2 or 3 days before Paul Spragg posted something about it. But keep in mind that the 1:1 policy was not something BF accidentally and/or naively "fell into". It was a deliberate commercial decision on BF's part - one with drawbacks as fans pointed out at the time and BF themselves seem to have belatedly realised around 2019. Despite the potential drawbacks, low pricing to open up or grow a new market is not an inherently bad thing to do. However once the market has matured and you want to raise prices to a similar level to other markets (again a normal business practice, not an inherently wicked thing to do) you need to take a softly softly, catchee monkey approach to the price rises.
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Post by timleschild on Nov 8, 2022 12:38:21 GMT
BF are LIARS plain & simple. At first it felt like they were just incompetent when it came to marketing but it is much worse, they are deceitful. People moan about Disney getting involved in Who. Would they have as much disrespect for the fans as BF do? At least they would function as competent business. I have not always enjoyed all the content BF put out but that is of course just personal preferences but this is far worse & damning. I mean this when I say they don't deserve the licence anymore. I hope when it expires it is not renewed for them. I hope all the talented writers, actors, production team etc find a company to employ them that are better. Sorry but I do not condone piracy but in this instance sadly I don't blame or condemn anyone that resorts to that method.
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Post by sherlock on Nov 8, 2022 13:16:08 GMT
In fairness, I get this correction was needed. It was baffling Big Finish didn’t take exchange rates into account in the first place - and that it took them 20 years to figure this out! I get that it stings international customers badly, but that’s just international purchases in a nutshell. It’s Big Finish's attempt to mask this decision after three years of not having the courage to own it that really irks me. Be honest with your customers. This is the thing - they deliberately and consciously adopted the 1:1 FX policy around 2013/4. At the time it was announced we discussed it and debated it on the old BF forum - many of the points made there are the points that have subsequently been made over the years - unfairness to UK customers, loss of revenue to BF, etc. At the time there was the usual radio silence from BF and the forum debate went on for 2 or 3 days before Paul Spragg posted something about it. But keep in mind that the 1:1 policy was not something BF accidentally and/or naively "fell into". It was a deliberate commercial decision on BF's part - one with drawbacks as fans pointed out at the time and BF themselves seem to have belatedly realised around 2019. Despite the potential drawbacks, low pricing to open up or grow a new market is not an inherently bad thing to do. However once the market has matured and you want to raise prices to a similar level to other markets (again a normal business practice, not an inherently wicked thing to do) you need to take a softly softly, catchee monkey approach to the price rises. Oh well that makes them seem even more naive than I thought there were already. What even was their reasoning for that?
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Post by mark687 on Nov 8, 2022 13:38:33 GMT
This is the thing - they deliberately and consciously adopted the 1:1 FX policy around 2013/4. At the time it was announced we discussed it and debated it on the old BF forum - many of the points made there are the points that have subsequently been made over the years - unfairness to UK customers, loss of revenue to BF, etc. At the time there was the usual radio silence from BF and the forum debate went on for 2 or 3 days before Paul Spragg posted something about it. But keep in mind that the 1:1 policy was not something BF accidentally and/or naively "fell into". It was a deliberate commercial decision on BF's part - one with drawbacks as fans pointed out at the time and BF themselves seem to have belatedly realised around 2019. Despite the potential drawbacks, low pricing to open up or grow a new market is not an inherently bad thing to do. However once the market has matured and you want to raise prices to a similar level to other markets (again a normal business practice, not an inherently wicked thing to do) you need to take a softly softly, catchee monkey approach to the price rises. Oh well that makes them seem even more naive than I thought there were already. What even was their reasoning for that? To encourage more International DL Customers and discourage piracy ironically. Regards mark687
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 13:38:41 GMT
This is the thing - they deliberately and consciously adopted the 1:1 FX policy around 2013/4. At the time it was announced we discussed it and debated it on the old BF forum - many of the points made there are the points that have subsequently been made over the years - unfairness to UK customers, loss of revenue to BF, etc. At the time there was the usual radio silence from BF and the forum debate went on for 2 or 3 days before Paul Spragg posted something about it. But keep in mind that the 1:1 policy was not something BF accidentally and/or naively "fell into". It was a deliberate commercial decision on BF's part - one with drawbacks as fans pointed out at the time and BF themselves seem to have belatedly realised around 2019. Despite the potential drawbacks, low pricing to open up or grow a new market is not an inherently bad thing to do. However once the market has matured and you want to raise prices to a similar level to other markets (again a normal business practice, not an inherently wicked thing to do) you need to take a softly softly, catchee monkey approach to the price rises. Oh well that makes them seem even more naive than I thought there were already. What even was their reasoning for that? It was all over the shop, as usual. "Some countries dont have a basis in audios, so being cheaper makes sense to test waters"..."some countries have lower disposable income"..."it's to save overseas fans from leaving BF entirely"...."some markets have so much entertainment they have to price low to attract fans"...the show was becoming truly international in the Moffat era so "do it now while people are open to DW". ALL sorts Though some of this was rationale from people who just - understandably - wanted cheaper product more than from BF themselves. It will never make sense that it was ever adopted. Again, I like to go multi-media to make the points..Bruce Springsteen has a new album out this week. If I buy it here on Amazon, it's £12 on CD. If I buy the same CD from Amazon France it's £14 converted (no postage included). They don't say "well, you're in the UK, clearly you expect to pay a bit less, let me reduce that for you", or "Well, there's a financial crisis, an energy disaster and Brexit..I think you deserve a discount". Lidar make a good point about new markets but that is surely what their famed "jumping on points" are for. Make them cheap. They reduced the price of older audios. That's how they should have done things. They did briefly experiment with "loss leaders" which doesn't get mentioned - Colin's two Jago and Litefoot stories were £1 each even on pre-order as an incentive. Though they've taken their time, the chickens have come home to roost indeed.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Nov 8, 2022 19:34:41 GMT
I’ve kept starting to write, paused and then deleted for the last few days. Mostly, I’m upset. The bait and switch. The outright lying that pricing was going up for pre-orders on Nov. 1st. And each time that I see the price of the releases, I shudder. I’ve supported buying from BF since about 2000. I used to buy from Minotaur books in Melbourne. This has never been a cheap hobby. And I never found myself attacking the logic behind the inspiration for a story or box set. But akin to St Paul after his blindness on the way to Damascus, the scales have fallen from my eyes. I’ll be much more discerning going forward. Not enamoured of Vienna, or Class, or whatever? Simple. Not buying the stories. Would I suggest much of the current output to a new listener? No. The production values are great. The sound design, wonderful. Many of the stories? A bit like the recovered unused footage from episode 6 of Fury from the Deep. An interesting novelty, but not a substitute for the real thing. Most of the stories I absolutely adore are from the first 5-10 years of BF. When BF was all the Doctor Who we would get. And that gave BF a lot of leeway. But times, and our economy have changed. Going forwards, I’ll only order what’s top shelf. The rest of it I leave to those of you with more disposable income. Ahh yes Minotaur books! We go to Melbourne maybe once a year for metal shows that don't make it to Adelaide, we stay at the hotel around the corner from Minitoaur.. They have all the BF cds under lock and key and they have seriously jacked up the prices even more then what we are paying now. They have a great selection of the Who books too.
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