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Post by mark687 on Mar 22, 2019 11:04:38 GMT
BFs 1st Public Tweet Reply (again to a hidden Tweet)
the prices will fluctuate with the EUR-GBP rates, but yes. If you have more questions please email enquiries@bigfinish.com
Regards
mark687
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Post by Digi on Mar 22, 2019 11:10:23 GMT
BFs 1st Public Tweet Reply (again to a hidden Tweet) the prices will fluctuate with the EUR-GBP rates, but yes. If you have more questions please email enquiries@bigfinish.com Regards mark687 Could be a different tweet you're referring to, but the reply I'm seeing that answers this question is not to a hidden tweet:
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Post by mark687 on Mar 22, 2019 11:13:34 GMT
BFs 1st Public Tweet Reply (again to a hidden Tweet) the prices will fluctuate with the EUR-GBP rates, but yes. If you have more questions please email enquiries@bigfinish.com Regards mark687 Could be a different tweet you're referring to, but the reply I'm seeing that answers this question is not to a hidden tweet: No your right it was that one
Regards
mark687
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,812
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Post by lidar2 on Mar 22, 2019 11:20:26 GMT
Apologies if this has already been mentioned upthread, but ...
BF's announcement mentions UK customers setting up fake foreign accounts to buy downloads cheaper. If they give UK customers a 10% discount on downloads but not foreign customers, then haven't they created an incentive for foreign customers to set up fake UK accounts to get a 10% discount? Or am I missing something?
(Again I say this with respect to everybody) Depending on how cynical BF might think some of their Customer Base is you have a point, but if you remove it that leaves Subs and Pre-orders and maybe Sales as the only way of affordable /attractive way of purchase for everyone. Can BF risk loosing another source of regular income that comes through smaller purchase (eg Boxsets brought after release but before the base price goes up bought together to get the 10% off £50 or more?)
Regards
mark687
I wasn't suggesting they cancel the 10%discount for UK customers. I hadn't really thought that far ahead, to be honest. But if they did want to close this loophole, and offer a sweetener to foreign customers after the price rise, they could give them the equivalent 10%
If they are going to go with a daily fx rate, then they might be better dropping foreign currencies altogether, offering a gbp price only, and then letting the foreign customers' credit cards do the currency conversion. Then give the same discounts for all downloaders. At the very least it would make things administratively simpler for them to manage and possibly lower bank fees as well
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 11:25:58 GMT
Well, this is ... disappointing. It is perfectly understandable, but, on the other hand, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the current prices. In fact, it was this forum that made me fully realise the 1:1 exchange rate, ending up at half-price. (I may have read it in one of BF's FAQ pages earlier.)
In future I will have to drastically cut down on ranges to follow, assuming I stay at all. (Temptation from previously-followed ranges.)
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Post by mark687 on Mar 22, 2019 11:30:24 GMT
(Again I say this with respect to everybody) Depending on how cynical BF might think some of their Customer Base is you have a point, but if you remove it that leaves Subs and Pre-orders and maybe Sales as the only way of affordable /attractive way of purchase for everyone. Can BF risk loosing another source of regular income that comes through smaller purchase (eg Boxsets brought after release but before the base price goes up bought together to get the 10% off £50 or more?)
Regards
mark687
I wasn't suggesting they cancel the 10%discount for UK customers. I hadn't really thought that far ahead, to be honest. But if they did want to close this loophole, and offer a sweetener to foreign customers after the price rise, they could give them the equivalent 10%
If they are going to go with a daily fx rate, then they might be better dropping foreign currencies altogether, offering a gbp price only, and then letting the foreign customers' credit cards do the currency conversion. Then give the same discounts for all downloaders. At the very least it would make things administratively simpler for them to manage and possibly lower bank fees as well
Definitely make the 10% off £50 and over orders Worldwide for sure. don't see an advantage for anybody in letting the buyers Card Company do the conversion though.
Regards
mark687
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,812
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Post by lidar2 on Mar 22, 2019 11:52:22 GMT
don't see an advantage for anybody in letting the buyers Card Company do the conversion though.
When I have bought things in foreign currencies using my card I pay the price in that currency, my credit card converts it and a sterling equivalent appears on my (sterling) credit card bill.
With a bit of shopping around it should be possible to find a credit card that gives a fairly decent fx rate - I have read in the past that credit card fx rates are often better than fx conversion rates offered by vendors, so as a general rule you are better to buy in the vendor's currency and use the credit card conversion rate. [Now, I am by no means an expert and if somebody more knowledgeable wants to contradict me or correct me that is fine].
So BF's foreign customer is no worse off using their card to buy in sterling
BF are better off because it reduces the admin, less labour and salary needed, the software needed is simpler, less chance of computer or human error, etc etc
Plus it means BF can treat UK and foreign customers the same in terms of pricing (save for shipping costs, which will obviously have to be different) so no unfairness, perceived or actual, with its associated loss of customer goodwill
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Mar 22, 2019 12:54:37 GMT
Well that was alot to read through and now my head hurts
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Post by barnabaslives on Mar 22, 2019 13:18:15 GMT
That is exactly the way it looks on my PC via Firefox and my iPad. Well, it was like this for me both on my ipad and Firefox but then they changed it and now it is red... that is the reason I was a bit miffed about them "hiding" the information. Not that I'm a position to take advantage of the news anyway, but on Chrome the link is still in a very dull, pale red that I could still have easily missed. It doesn't turn red until you deliberately mouse over it. It still feels a bit sneaky and I'm not sure I like that, especially after as many times as I've noticed price errors on many sales and newly announced items that could have someone paying more than they intended and more than the price they were promised. Not sure I've ever seen a price error that isn't in Big Finish's favor, to be perfectly honest. I think that's a big reason I passed over Star Trek: Prometheus is that the actual cost was consistently higher than the price advertised in the news announcements, even the later news announcements. I was interested in it but not quite enough to put up with that. If things are so hard for Big Finish that they have to resort to that sort of thing, what is the point of taking the risk of alienating overseas customers? I can't guess how much of the BF customer base is made of foreign customers but even when DW is so popular in the UK, that would be the UK vs the rest of the entire world. Granted I haven't woken up and had coffee yet, but at the moment it still seems kind of strange that they mention complaints about the unfairness of the 1:1 pricing. Usually there is someone to complain about the unfairness of anything, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about UK customers getting the 10% order discount. Likewise I'm not sure why they're bringing up UK customers with fake overseas accounts - are they trying to give people ideas? It seems sort of like that matter is on a trust basis, just like trusting customers to not go put the latest releases on bittorrent, which I don't think people are going to do as long as they continue to love and respect the company. Meanwhile I didn't have to incur much in the way of medical expenses at all in order to cast uncertainty on when I'm going to be able to catch up with pre-orders again, and now this - and I still don't understand how Big Finish can afford to let their products go as cheaply as they do through various outlets and yet have to demand higher prices if you deal with them directly. I'm sure Big Finish doesn't mean to punish customer loyalty, but that kind of feels like how things are working out.
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 22, 2019 13:23:40 GMT
I must be a sad individual because I’ve woken up and come to make a cup of tea and have been thinking about the price change at Big Finish! For those outside of the UK, did you know the prices we pay for downloads? Do you think they’re reasonably priced or rather expensive for no physical product in return? I can't remember how long it took before I noticed the 1:1 exchange, but I think I must've caught on fairly early on. I recall my tiny maniacal mind deciding that I'd subsidise the costs of my purchases by buying an amount of Big Finish content that equalled a UK release or so. One of those kind of schemes that kids hatch... I think the introduction of things like Patreon for online platforms made us very aware of the concept of patronage to content creators. As I got older, I found that it made sense on an international basis. As has been pointed out, it correlated neatly with the Australian wages, taxes, goods and services. I don't live in the British economy, so I'm not paid the kind of money that would work in exchange rates. Things aren't cheap here regardless. Public transport alone can gouge $40 out of you (back and forth) in a 5-day working week if you're not too careful and that's only travel to and from the inner city (it can go up to $20.00 for a single, one-way trip for some travellers). Physical products were always for a special occasion. A particularly good story, a celebratory one or a boxset whose content justified the added expenditure. The Tara King Avengers release, for instance, would've qualified. We were on the lower end of the financial bracket, so there was an acute awareness of money and the lack thereof. The box for The Light at the End was a very special thing to have at the time. What makes me wary is the uncertainty surrounding download prices because it's that or nothing. Anything else will be prohibitively expensive. *winces* And as a customer, I honestly don't want to be playing stocks with my BF purchases, I really don't...
Thanks for the response, I appreciate you taking the time out to humour my question! Forgive me for being blunt, but I think taking into account the economy of the country is irrelevant. Otherwise you can then dig down deeper into what specific individuals are earning in different countries and there will be Australians earning more than Brits after exchanged and vice versa. You're an Australian customer paying for a UK product from a UK company. The prices they're setting essentially take into account all of their overhead costs in the UK - rent, utilities, wages, licencing costs, etc. - with a profit percentage added. It seems much fairer to me that everyone pays the same for the same product. I'll buy, say, Rose Tyler: Dimension Cannon for £20 sterling and you will buy it for the same. By maintaining the 1:1 rate Big Finish were essentially selling to you for less than it costs, almost half of what the UK price was. I genuinely think the 1:1 rate was only ever implemented because there appears to be a lack of knowledge about economic within Big Finish that they've only really began to understand recently. I am very sympathetic, I hope you understand that, but I think Big Finish's decision is the way forward. It brings them in line with other businesses and established methods. They could and should have handled it much better and they still need to do more with regards to shipping rates, per order costs and other discounts. I think they should start getting more personal with customers too, but I think that will be a long way off, if ever. We don't even get particularly nice order or dispatch emails for a start. I'm shocked that they've maintained this for so long and despite their big success, it's things like this which really remind you that this company is a group of fans making audio plays, who seemingly don't possess all the knowledge required to properly run a business. Again, this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I am just trying to explain the reasoning behind their actions. Arguably, it's Big Finish who should be doing that!
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Post by Digi on Mar 22, 2019 13:29:34 GMT
Well, it was like this for me both on my ipad and Firefox but then they changed it and now it is red... that is the reason I was a bit miffed about them "hiding" the information. Not that I'm a position to take advantage of the news anyway, but on Chrome the link is still in a very dull, pale red that I could still have easily missed. You need to do a clear cache refresh for the new version to load (Shift-F5).
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Post by Ela on Mar 22, 2019 13:39:28 GMT
By maintaining the 1:1 rate Big Finish were essentially selling to you for less than it costs, almost half of what the UK price was. I genuinely think the 1:1 rate was only ever implemented because there appears to be a lack of knowledge about economic within Big Finish that they've only really began to understand recently If you mean that Big Finish was selling for less than it costs for UK customers, that would be a correct statement. We have no way of knowing if they were selling it for less money than it costs them to make it (which is how my brain originally interpreted your statement); I would doubt that. Also, reiterating that the reason given by Big Finish in the past for the difference in pricing among different countries was that they were going by what people in a particular country would expect to pay for such a problem. I have since no indication from their past statements that it was because of a lack of knowledge about economics. And we know the economic situation has changed with Brexit looming and the changing (and seemingly future uncertainty) of the value of the pound.
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 22, 2019 13:41:27 GMT
Applies to Both
Regards
mark687
Apologies if this has already been mentioned upthread, but ...
BF's announcement mentions UK customers setting up fake foreign accounts to buy downloads cheaper. If they give UK customers a 10% discount on downloads but not foreign customers, then haven't they created an incentive for foreign customers to set up fake UK accounts to get a 10% discount? Or am I missing something?
The 10% of orders of £50 doesn't apply to pre-orders, subscriptions or bundles. If you're, say, an Australian customer getting, say, a boxset for £11 rather than the UK price of £20, then why would you set up a UK account to save £5? I wasn't aware of UK customers creating overseas accounts until Big Finish mentioned it yesterday, but when they can either get close to twice as much product for the same price or save half the price, then I absolutely understand exploiting that. It had never really occurred to me before, but I have a friend in Australia and I could have just transferred him £77 to get the below: The Eighth of March UNIT Incursions The Paternoster Gang: Heritage The War Master: Rage of the Time Lords The Eighth Doctor: The Time War 3 The Diary of River Song 6 Rose Tyler: The Dimension Cannon But as a UK customer on a UK account I paid twice the amount for the same. I wouldn't have gotten any discount on that, as they were, at the time, all pre-orders of individual sets.
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 22, 2019 13:45:31 GMT
By maintaining the 1:1 rate Big Finish were essentially selling to you for less than it costs, almost half of what the UK price was. I genuinely think the 1:1 rate was only ever implemented because there appears to be a lack of knowledge about economic within Big Finish that they've only really began to understand recently If you mean that Big Finish was selling for less than it costs for UK customers, that would be a correct statement. We have no way of knowing if they were selling it for less money than it costs them to make it (which is how my brain originally interpreted your statement); I would doubt that. Also, reiterating that the reason given by Big Finish in the past for the difference in pricing among different countries was that they were going by what people in a particular country would expect to pay for such a problem. I have since no indication from their past statements that it was because of a lack of knowledge about economics. And we know the economic situation has changed with Brexit looming and the changing (and seemingly future uncertainty) of the value of the pound. I did mean the former, yes, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. As for the second statement, I understand where you're coming from, but if that was truly the case, then I think they'd have been a little more specific than 1:1 pricing across the board. Certainly, the reason they changed the way postage was handled in late 2016 was due to their poor economics, as they were making a loss.
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Post by Ela on Mar 22, 2019 13:47:09 GMT
Not that I'm a position to take advantage of the news anyway, but on Chrome the link is still in a very dull, pale red that I could still have easily missed. You need to do a clear cache refresh for the new version to load (Shift-F5). Ha, beat me to it. That was the next thing I was going to post. (Still showing the pale announcement on Firefox, the browser I was using all day yesterday, though. And, no, I haven't cleared my cache. )
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Post by pazzer on Mar 22, 2019 13:47:53 GMT
I thought the whole point of overseas downloads been about half the price of UK was that they weren't used to audio drama and wouldn't buy at a higher price. Unless that has suddenly changed then it seems a really strange decision.
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Post by Ela on Mar 22, 2019 13:50:39 GMT
If you mean that Big Finish was selling for less than it costs for UK customers, that would be a correct statement. We have no way of knowing if they were selling it for less money than it costs them to make it (which is how my brain originally interpreted your statement); I would doubt that. Also, reiterating that the reason given by Big Finish in the past for the difference in pricing among different countries was that they were going by what people in a particular country would expect to pay for such a problem. I have since no indication from their past statements that it was because of a lack of knowledge about economics. And we know the economic situation has changed with Brexit looming and the changing (and seemingly future uncertainty) of the value of the pound. I did mean the former, yes, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. As for the second statement, I understand where you're coming from, but if that was truly the case, then I think they'd have been a little more specific than 1:1 pricing across the board. Certainly, the reason they changed the way postage was handled in late 2016 was due to their poor economics, as they were making a loss. And also, they use a shipping company that has very high shipping rates. Even within country, DHL is significantly more expensive then other shipping companies that I've dealt with. To say you see where I'm coming from mystifies me a bit: I didn't make that statement about the reason for the 1:1 pricing. Big Finish did. Repeatedly. Especially in answer to comments about it on the old forum.
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Post by Ela on Mar 22, 2019 13:51:15 GMT
I thought the whole point of overseas downloads been about half the price of UK was that they weren't used to audio drama and wouldn't buy at a higher price. Unless that has suddenly changed then it seems a really strange decision. Yes, that was a reason that Big Finish gave.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 22, 2019 13:54:47 GMT
I think the biggest concern about this is the loss of potential new customers. I first started collecting Big Finish with downloads and moved on to CDs, but I doubt I would have ever started if those download prices hadn't been as affordable as they were. The download prices were the only thing immediately affordable to me, and I'm sure they're also the only viable option for many overseas customers (see shipping costs upthread...). Come April, the number of new overseas customers is likely to see a marked decrease in number, as well as the purchase rate of existing customers. One imagines they've run their numbers and anticipate making a reasonable level of profit from this move, but their overseas sales are going to suffer a heavy impact after this. Big Finish is going to be the least accessible to new listeners than it ever has been, and that's a real shame
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 22, 2019 13:57:22 GMT
I did mean the former, yes, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. As for the second statement, I understand where you're coming from, but if that was truly the case, then I think they'd have been a little more specific than 1:1 pricing across the board. Certainly, the reason they changed the way postage was handled in late 2016 was due to their poor economics, as they were making a loss. And also, they use a shipping company that has very high shipping rates. Even within country, DHL is significantly more expensive then other shipping companies that I've dealt with. To say you see where I'm coming from mystifies me a bit: I didn't make that statement about the reason for the 1:1 pricing. Big Finish did. Repeatedly. Especially in answer to comments about it on the old forum. The postage is something that needs addressing, absolutely. My comment about understanding your view comes from your mention of having no indication that it was about a lack of knowledge about economics. I understand Big Finish gave no indication, then I offered that I believe if that was the case, then I think they would have not simply implemented the 1:1 rate across the board. Having said that, they haven't got postage prices for each country, so I suppose implementing one standard across the board is easier for them. Even if it's not necessarily a savvy bit of business.
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