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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 26, 2019 9:15:50 GMT
BF have issued a statement on this issue today... not sure it's going to do to calm the twitters though (I'm not sure if anything could atm). Yeah this was over 12 hours ago
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 4, 2019 6:13:52 GMT
I realize this might sound like sort of an odd subject to bring up, but we did have people speaking up who seemed to appreciate feeling representation in the form of Ryan's dyspraxia, so hopefully I'm not out of line with this.
As someone who's been having to use an inhaler, I'm still sorting out how I feel about Osgood, sometimes I feel like she's sort of my patron saint for that and I guess sometimes maybe it makes me feel a little self-conscious like it's drawing attention to something that I wish wasn't drawing attention? Anyway, if you add up my mixed feelings about that subject, I'm really almost indifferent, so if it makes anyone else feel better represented, that's much more important than my indifference.
What I think is actually trying to be an minor issue is realism - everyone I know who uses an inhaler tries to hold it in for ten seconds, whereas I notice that Osgood will say something so immediately after using her inhaler that sometimes I think she's nearly using it while speaking. It does tend to take me out of the story, but I wonder if it's fair to ask Big Finish to try to orchestrate a higher level of realism by having someone else speak while Osgood is holding in the medication, or if Big Finish should be let off the hook to make it easier on them and just chalk it up to dramatic purposes, and that's the thing where I'm really curious what others think.
(The other thing that takes me out of UNIT stories sometimes is that the ante seems to be getting raised on the intellect of both Kate and Osgood - Kate seems to have gotten so smart that sometimes I wonder why she needs to have Osgood around and I have no idea where either one is getting to take courses in temporal mechanics and so forth, but I thought this was beautifully handled in The Legacy of Time where they're both super-geniuses but okay maybe The Doctor is still a tiny bit smarter, so more power to both of these brilliant ladies).
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Aug 4, 2019 7:51:08 GMT
I realize this might sound like sort of an odd subject to bring up, but we did have people speaking up who seemed to appreciate feeling representation in the form of Ryan's dyspraxia, so hopefully I'm not out of line with this. As someone who's been having to use an inhaler, I'm still sorting out how I feel about Osgood, sometimes I feel like she's sort of my patron saint for that and I guess sometimes maybe it makes me feel a little self-conscious like it's drawing attention to something that I wish wasn't drawing attention? Anyway, if you add up my mixed feelings about that subject, I'm really almost indifferent, so if it makes anyone else feel better represented, that's much more important than my indifference. What I think is actually trying to be an minor issue is realism - everyone I know who uses an inhaler tries to hold it in for ten seconds, whereas I notice that Osgood will say something so immediately after using her inhaler that sometimes I think she's nearly using it while speaking. It does tend to take me out of the story, but I wonder if it's fair to ask Big Finish to try to orchestrate a higher level of realism by having someone else speak while Osgood is holding in the medication, or if Big Finish should be let off the hook to make it easier on them and just chalk it up to dramatic purposes, and that's the thing where I'm really curious what others think. (The other thing that takes me out of UNIT stories sometimes is that the ante seems to be getting raised on the intellect of both Kate and Osgood - Kate seems to have gotten so smart that sometimes I wonder why she needs to have Osgood around and I have no idea where either one is getting to take courses in temporal mechanics and so forth, but I thought this was beautifully handled in The Legacy of Time where they're both super-geniuses but okay maybe The Doctor is still a tiny bit smarter, so more power to both of these brilliant ladies). My ex, asthma all her life, uses her inhaler exactly like Osgood. Now, I wasn't around for all her life but I saw it for seven years, and yep, just like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 10:05:56 GMT
I realize this might sound like sort of an odd subject to bring up, but we did have people speaking up who seemed to appreciate feeling representation in the form of Ryan's dyspraxia, so hopefully I'm not out of line with this. As someone who's been having to use an inhaler, I'm still sorting out how I feel about Osgood, sometimes I feel like she's sort of my patron saint for that and I guess sometimes maybe it makes me feel a little self-conscious like it's drawing attention to something that I wish wasn't drawing attention? Anyway, if you add up my mixed feelings about that subject, I'm really almost indifferent, so if it makes anyone else feel better represented, that's much more important than my indifference. What I think is actually trying to be an minor issue is realism - everyone I know who uses an inhaler tries to hold it in for ten seconds, whereas I notice that Osgood will say something so immediately after using her inhaler that sometimes I think she's nearly using it while speaking. It does tend to take me out of the story, but I wonder if it's fair to ask Big Finish to try to orchestrate a higher level of realism by having someone else speak while Osgood is holding in the medication, or if Big Finish should be let off the hook to make it easier on them and just chalk it up to dramatic purposes, and that's the thing where I'm really curious what others think. (The other thing that takes me out of UNIT stories sometimes is that the ante seems to be getting raised on the intellect of both Kate and Osgood - Kate seems to have gotten so smart that sometimes I wonder why she needs to have Osgood around and I have no idea where either one is getting to take courses in temporal mechanics and so forth, but I thought this was beautifully handled in The Legacy of Time where they're both super-geniuses but okay maybe The Doctor is still a tiny bit smarter, so more power to both of these brilliant ladies). My ex, asthma all her life, uses her inhaler exactly like Osgood. Now, I wasn't around for all her life but I saw it for seven years, and yep, just like that. Same - guy in my team at work uses it exactly the same as that, quick few puffs then straight into talking, just like your ex and Osgood.
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 4, 2019 10:37:29 GMT
Okay, never mind - I will take it as realism then. Thanks for the kind replies.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Mar 7, 2020 10:51:38 GMT
Because I just read a comment on here that got deleted- no idea if it was meant to be offensive or not, it raises a VERY good point. Why is it that many people (writers, directors, heck, scientist in my field!) we see as capable are white men? Why is it that many things presented by people other than white men is not as good? Why is most of the good stuff out there done by white men? I think it is a sad truth and I think it has two reasons- 1. We all grew up with content created by white men. We got all so used to it that any change has the "You have re-decorated, I don't like it" effect and to another extent 2. Many people who are not white and male have been discouraged a long time ago, so we do not see all people with potential to ever get there. Sad stories from my own experience- I grew up in a very backwards conservative village with very conservative parents. Loving parents, but non-the-less, they could never deal with the fact I never was "a real girl". As a kid, I always dreamed to play soccer, but was blocked at every step by the village youth soccer trainer, my own dad. Telling me that female soccer players look silly. Fast-forward 30 years, and the German woman soccer team is more successful than the boys and even my dad watches it. I also several times tried out other sports I fancied (air rifle shooting and go-kart racing) where I was always turning out quite to be doing very well. This was also blocked. I only now, 25 years later, finally started archery and I am loving it and my dad gifted me a new Hungarian horse bow on my last birthday. Where am I going with this? Change is very much possible. But, it takes time and an awful lot of patience. And an awful lot of strength and persistence by the people who want to do these things. As I see it now, we are on the right track. There will be set-backs. But we have to start somewhere. And yes, I also believe that the right person no matter of race, gender, age, whatever should do the job, not just because they belong to the majority of not male/white. That would be ideal. But it will take time. The male majority has increasingly baffled me over the past months because the majority of people who show up to our workshops are women. There is the occassional male writer, but most are women. Where do they go...? Do they become publishers or just drop out of the market entirely? The only explanation I could really come up with for the disparity goes back to the old idea of a literary canon. We love our Asimovs, our Ellisons, our Pratchetts (and, indeed, marvellous writers they are), but it's only now that we're popularising our Octavia E. Butlers, Usula K. Le Guins and Diane Duanes. It's been there, but there's never been a wholly cosmopolitan platform before to raise awareness of it. It's always been dictated by litterateurs. Now, we've got one. The internet.
If people can recognise the name Mary Shelley as (or even more) readily as Percy Shelley, we can make a good precedent.
Personally, I'd love to hear more stories of Africa from an African perspective. It's such a big question mark and it really shouldn't be. I understand the impulse as a writer not to be too interested in home. For me, Australia would be one of the last things on my mind when coming up with a story. But, if there is an interest and a desire to explore those big question marks from writers, there is a market for it and a desire to see it. In science fiction more than any other genre, I would've thought, as we thrive on exploring otherness from the Other's perspective (the astonishing Invention of Death from just a year ago, for instance).
Decided to bump this back up to provide a little more context for what I'm going to talk about next.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Mar 7, 2020 11:04:28 GMT
So, I wanted to spin-off from the Extremist Fans thread and, a little inspired by other parts of the S12 discourse, to come back to this topic. Like I discussed on EF, a problem that has been around since the internet arose has magnified in recent years: the breakdown of the barrier between fandom/consumers and the industry. In particular, the whinging about 'diversity quotas' and just mentioning the importance of representation leading to screeching over 'meritocracy' belittle very real problems in the UK and US media industries. These people don't have the qualifications or job experience to comment on these industry issues and, as a result, muddy the discussion in harmful ways. Like of course companies want qualified people to work for them - they're not going to hire a random black guy off the street. That's not what asking for greater representation is about - it's about creating opportunities for qualified people who fall outside the 'norm' i.e. white guys.
Whatever way you slice it, the fact that between Robin Mukherjee and Malorie Blackman, there was not one single non-white writer on a Who story, be it novel, TV, comic or audio, and that it wasn't until Blackman in the late 2010s that we finally got one, comes with uncomfortable implications. Not active malevolence (I'm obviously not trying to slander anyone at BF or BBC Books or Virgin before them), but that's the benignly insidious way things like this happen - when you surround yourself with one type of person for so long, you end up only going to that type and thus, you're not incentivized to go out the comfort zone and find different talent. Unless you're going to argue every single pitch during this time that came from POC writers completely and utterly sucked, then it opens up the question of if Who gave an impression that it wasn't welcoming to POC creatives, during this time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 11:04:45 GMT
The male majority has increasingly baffled me over the past months because the majority of people who show up to our workshops are women. There is the occassional male writer, but most are women. Where do they go...? Do they become publishers or just drop out of the market entirely? The only explanation I could really come up with for the disparity goes back to the old idea of a literary canon. We love our Asimovs, our Ellisons, our Pratchetts (and, indeed, marvellous writers they are), but it's only now that we're popularising our Octavia E. Butlers, Usula K. Le Guins and Diane Duanes. It's been there, but there's never been a wholly cosmopolitan platform before to raise awareness of it. It's always been dictated by litterateurs. Now, we've got one. The internet.
If people can recognise the name Mary Shelley as (or even more) readily as Percy Shelley, we can make a good precedent.
Personally, I'd love to hear more stories of Africa from an African perspective. It's such a big question mark and it really shouldn't be. I understand the impulse as a writer not to be too interested in home. For me, Australia would be one of the last things on my mind when coming up with a story. But, if there is an interest and a desire to explore those big question marks from writers, there is a market for it and a desire to see it. In science fiction more than any other genre, I would've thought, as we thrive on exploring otherness from the Other's perspective (the astonishing Invention of Death from just a year ago, for instance).
Decided to bump this back up to provide a little more context for what I'm going to talk about next. As an addendum to that too: I've since met a writer who grew up in South Africa, she's a good friend of mine. Remarkable woman. Her books draw strongly from her upbringing there and are quite accessible reads to boot.
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