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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 20, 2019 0:49:18 GMT
So we've talked plenty about various people who we would want to work on the franchise, or stories, settings and arcs we would like to see. However, I'd like to take a different tack with the 'why haven't they done this yet' and focus more on little stuff. These could be jokes or references or individual scenes or just small details; nothing necessarily super important, but just odd things that you'd think someone would've done by now and haven't.
One for me: given how much more pop-culture aware NuWho tends to be, especially with movies, I'm kind of surprised (whether you think this is a good or bad thought) that 'Friend Like Me' from Aladdin has never once been used as a little throwaway line or gag, especially from Doctors who tow that cheesier/cringey style of comedy like 11 or 13. The song does kind of describe a Doc-companion dynamic in many ways.
"Yaz, I don't think ya quite realize what ya got 'ere. So why don't you just ruminate, whilst I illuminate the possibilities?"
(if you're so inclined, by all means try to find a way to continue this song with Who lyrics. Bit like that 'Creating a story' thing the Series 9 writers did).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 2:03:59 GMT
This could entirely be down to ignorance or a lapsed memory, but has there ever been a story where the Eighth Doctor catches a San Francisco tram? It seems like such an iconic image, it's strange we haven't had it yet.
Any Doctor with an umbrella doing "Singing in the Rain".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 2:39:25 GMT
In universe, a Burke and Hare story. I don't think BF doing so in Medicinal Purposes would stop the show doing so. It could be a really darkly gruesome bit of horror that you can still get away with at 7pm. Gruesome enough I don't think it being a historical would be an issue.
BF have done a LOT more episodes than the TV show now with more every week and no sign of stopping so loads of setting that hadn't been done in 1999 have long been done now. BF did Richard III WONDERFULLY in The Kingmaker but that seems a natural for the show to touch at some point, especially since it's history that became so current with "the King in the car park". The TV show never doing Cromwell seems odd too - books and audio yes but never on screen.
In production, a Welsh or Northern Irish actor as Doctor or Companion. They pay their licence fee to have 53 years of English and Scottish actors on screen as the main actors, you'd think there'd be a bit more representation of 2 of the Home Nations. Wales at least has Torchwood, and got the show's production itself - but NI in particular seems underrepresented. Unless there are people I'm forgetting, Wales and NI have only had guest actors despite paying for the show.
James Nesbitt never popping up at all despite being linked with the title role for a decade.
Roger Allam not being in the show on TV or audio. Ditto Adrian Dunbar on screen, he did a tiny role for BF in Brave New Town.
David Jason not appearing. He's probably the UK's most beloved TV actor ever and explicitly said in an interview during the RTD era he'd love to do DW as it was his son's favourite show. I know there were reports his golden handcuff deal with ITV scuppered him appearing quite that early but that finished years and years ago.
An explicit Bond parody, the UK's most famous TV show and the UK's most famous film series...seems natural. DS9 did it with Our Man Bashir, if Trek can do it, Who can do it better. Hey, speaking of Bashir, Siddig El Fadil. He's done loadsa cult Brit telly and BF - get him on screen.
Some things I would have said a few years ago have been ticked off - multi-Master, female Doc, black Timelords, meeting older Daleks when meeting in order makes zero sense if they have had time travel, and more...
One thing I'm happily surprised the show hasn't done is ODed on multi-Doc eps. Especially at BF where you're playing almost exclusively to die hard fans. It'd be so easy every time the ratings dip to try and do a multi-Doc even to get a quick boost, it'd be easy to think fans want them more often on audio. BF have done a lot of things far too much but I'm impressed they've not done these much, and when they have they've often found fun twists on them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 2:42:42 GMT
Any Doctor with an umbrella doing "Singing in the Rain".
That's a terrific one. Seems like something JNT would have loved in S24 or thereabouts too. I wonder if it's just too iconic in the UK for being a Morcambe And Wise bit. It's maybe more famous here for their parody than the movie itself, always featuring on the Top 10 Funniest TV lists and the like.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 20, 2019 19:02:45 GMT
BF have done a LOT more episodes than the TV show now with more every week and no sign of stopping so loads of setting that hadn't been done in 1999 have long been done now. BF did Richard III WONDERFULLY in The Kingmaker but that seems a natural for the show to touch at some point, especially since it's history that became so current with "the King in the car park". The TV show never doing Cromwell seems odd too - books and audio yes but never on screen. To add to Rich and Cromwell: no TV Henry VIII story on Classic or Nu either. One of three monarchs I think everyone in Britain, certainly kids, could confidently name (him, Liz II and Vic) and just begging for a great character actor to just run with.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 27, 2019 18:10:48 GMT
Now, I think we may have detoured from the intent here, since this was about moments, not really full story ideas, but I might as well chuck this one out: A Most Dangerous Game. It feels like such a natural fit to do a Who-riff on.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Apr 27, 2019 18:13:23 GMT
Back to small stuff, it's kind of amazing how few nods towards video games, especially big names like Mario, Sonic, COD, Final Fantasy and others, there have been. Especially given the companions have mainly skewed younger, you'd think at least one would've said 'oh, this place is like Fable III' or 'I did a puzzle like this in Prince of Persia'.
Nope, just Mickey playing a... zeppelin game on Playstation? (Missed opportunity for an Empire of Steel joke on Mega Drive there, MacRae).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 8:42:19 GMT
Back to small stuff, it's kind of amazing how few nods towards video games, especially big names like Mario, Sonic, COD, Final Fantasy and others, there have been. Especially given the companions have mainly skewed younger, you'd think at least one would've said 'oh, this place is like Fable III' or 'I did a puzzle like this in Prince of Persia'. Nope, just Mickey playing a... zeppelin game on Playstation? (Missed opportunity for an Empire of Steel joke on Mega Drive there, MacRae). In that vein, has there ever been a Doctor/companion face-off over a game console in the TARDIS? I can just see Sixie quipping "frame perfect" over a game you have to play in four-dimensions. Actually, he's probably the Doctor I can see most doing the pro-gamer circuit... Johnny Morris's reference to Command & Conquer in The Curse of Davros had me thinking "death by transtemporal handshake" at one point (I need to go back and play Red Alert). Given how many were sold, there's got to be an Atari 2600 in the TARDIS somewhere...
I can imagine a few throwaday exchanges:
or
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Post by mark687 on Apr 29, 2019 10:16:18 GMT
This Must happen in BF one day!
Regards
mark687
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Post by newt5996 on May 10, 2019 15:54:02 GMT
This Must happen in BF one day! Regards mark687 As long as they never get to Heathrow!
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Post by muckypup on May 10, 2019 16:47:42 GMT
surprised they have never done a tv, audio and print crossover story
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Post by fingersmash on May 10, 2019 17:24:03 GMT
A lot of classic lit/folklore pastiches I'm shocked haven't happened. Hunchback of Notre Dame. Beauty and the Beast. Sleeping Beauty. The Odyssey. Arséne Lupin (this would have been perfect for 12) You could get a lot of fun out of those.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 16:53:14 GMT
A lot of classic lit/folklore pastiches I'm shocked haven't happened. Hunchback of Notre Dame. Beauty and the Beast. Sleeping Beauty. The Odyssey. Arséne Lupin (this would have been perfect for 12) You could get a lot of fun out of those. Well, they did Phantom of the Opera with Androzani (and Weng Chiang in a way too) so I would say that they have form in taking classic tales and giving a unique Who flavour to them. Given that fans of the show tend not to like too much 'space opera' or traditional sci-fi tropes (it aint Star Wars or Star Trek and is never going to fit that kind of setting), it seems a good way to go in terms of mining inspiration for future stories rather than too much social commentary, which in itself is good on occasion, but needs to be balanced out with some good old fantasy, without looking at the evils of colonialism/racism and fascism for reference too frequently. Subtlety of story telling rather than being heavy with the allegory. Thinking of the Sorcerers Apprentice (Fantasia version), Adric strikes me as exactly the kind of companion to get caught up in such a scrape, only to be pulled up by the Fourth Doctor who has to clear up the mess afterwards...
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Post by fingersmash on May 11, 2019 22:26:58 GMT
A lot of classic lit/folklore pastiches I'm shocked haven't happened. Hunchback of Notre Dame. Beauty and the Beast. Sleeping Beauty. The Odyssey. Arséne Lupin (this would have been perfect for 12) You could get a lot of fun out of those. Well, they did Phantom of the Opera with Androzani (and Weng Chiang in a way too) so I would say that they have form in taking classic tales and giving a unique Who flavour to them. Given that fans of the show tend not to like too much 'space opera' or traditional sci-fi tropes (it aint Star Wars or Star Trek and is never going to fit that kind of setting), it seems a good way to go in terms of mining inspiration for future stories rather than too much social commentary, which in itself is good on occasion, but needs to be balanced out with some good old fantasy, without looking at the evils of colonialism/racism and fascism for reference too frequently. Subtlety of story telling rather than being heavy with the allegory. Thinking of the Sorcerers Apprentice (Fantasia version), Adric strikes me as exactly the kind of companion to get caught up in such a scrape, only to be pulled up by the Fourth Doctor who has to clear up the mess afterwards... Can you imagine how great a Pride and Prejudice pastiche would be for introducing a new companion? Or a dark and gritty Fahrenheit 451 pastiche set on some colony world? Or a really beautiful Snow White story where the apple actually does kill the character? Or a Superman pastiche done correctly? Honestly, Hinchcliffe and Holmes were really onto something with their horror pastiches and that's a direction I really want to see the show try again.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on May 11, 2019 23:37:47 GMT
This Must happen in BF one day! Regards mark687 As long as they never get to Heathrow! NO! the opposite. The only place they keep arriving is Heathrow.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 0:08:45 GMT
Well, they did Phantom of the Opera with Androzani (and Weng Chiang in a way too) so I would say that they have form in taking classic tales and giving a unique Who flavour to them. Given that fans of the show tend not to like too much 'space opera' or traditional sci-fi tropes (it aint Star Wars or Star Trek and is never going to fit that kind of setting), it seems a good way to go in terms of mining inspiration for future stories rather than too much social commentary, which in itself is good on occasion, but needs to be balanced out with some good old fantasy, without looking at the evils of colonialism/racism and fascism for reference too frequently. Subtlety of story telling rather than being heavy with the allegory. Thinking of the Sorcerers Apprentice (Fantasia version), Adric strikes me as exactly the kind of companion to get caught up in such a scrape, only to be pulled up by the Fourth Doctor who has to clear up the mess afterwards... Can you imagine how great a Pride and Prejudice pastiche would be for introducing a new companion? Or a dark and gritty Fahrenheit 451 pastiche set on some colony world? Or a really beautiful Snow White story where the apple actually does kill the character? Or a Superman pastiche done correctly? Honestly, Hinchcliffe and Holmes were really onto something with their horror pastiches and that's a direction I really want to see the show try again. All sounds great, although I would not call it a 'pastiche' as that potentially suggests a more light hearted take (Pride and Prejudice and Zombies). More 'homage' as Daphne du Maurier famously did when evoking Jane Eyre when writing Rebecca, for example, or indeed to my observation, elements of Wuthering Heights via Jamaica Inn. A good story can clearly reference its source when delivering a strong original storyline without being unoriginal. Brain Of Morbuis was no Young Frankenstein after all, without being a retread of Mary Shelley's novel. On the subject of Daphne du Maurier, I would strongly recommend 'The House on the Strand' to anyone interested in time travel via the medium of psychopathic drugs. It is one of my top 5 favourite novels. Quite a versatile author and one of the most varied in range of her time. Think of the 'Unicorn and the Wasp' being based on an actual Agatha Christie novel written during her sojourn at Harrogate and you get an idea of her imagination and range of story treatments. Imagination is what breathes new life into old source materials and Doctor Who can and has historically shown it can do anything with these, being bound only by the limits of the 'script doctors'. Lets have more of this kind of thing, if I was to have any say in matters.
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Post by fingersmash on May 12, 2019 0:32:54 GMT
Can you imagine how great a Pride and Prejudice pastiche would be for introducing a new companion? Or a dark and gritty Fahrenheit 451 pastiche set on some colony world? Or a really beautiful Snow White story where the apple actually does kill the character? Or a Superman pastiche done correctly? Honestly, Hinchcliffe and Holmes were really onto something with their horror pastiches and that's a direction I really want to see the show try again. All sounds great, although I would not call it a 'pastiche' as that potentially suggests a more light hearted take (Pride and Prejudice and Zombies). More 'homage' as Daphne du Maurier famously did when evoking Jane Eyre when writing Rebecca, for example, or indeed to my observation, elements of Wuthering Heights via Jamaica Inn. A good story can clearly reference its source when delivering a strong original storyline without being unoriginal. Brain Of Morbuis was no Young Frankenstein after all, without being a retread of Mary Shelley's novel. On the subject of Daphne du Maurier, I would strongly recommend 'The House on the Strand' to anyone interested in time travel via the medium of psychopathic drugs. It is one of my top 5 favourite novels. Quite a versatile author and one of the most varied in range of her time. Think of the 'Unicorn and the Wasp' being based on an actual Agatha Christie novel written during her sojourn at Harrogate and you get an idea of her imagination and range of story treatments. Imagination is what breathes new life into old source materials and Doctor Who can and has historically shown it can do anything with these, being bound only by the limits of the 'script doctors'. Lets have more of this kind of thing, if I was to have any say in matters. You and I are on the same page here. It adds flavor to the show in a way no other show can be given flavor. And these stories are for the most part universal too. It shouldn't be hard for Doctor Who to do a Cinderella story because almost every culture on the planet has a variant of the story.
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Post by fitzoliverj on May 12, 2019 16:59:10 GMT
surprised they have never done a tv, audio and print crossover story
This has been suggested in the past, but there's some suggestion that the terms of the BBC's charter forbids too much of a connection between the BBC's free-to-air material and any paid-for commercial activity; and there's quite a bit of internal politics around encouraging tv audiences to listen to the radio, or vice versa.
As for things the show hasn't done, I was thinking earlier that I don't think we've ever had a Christopher Columbus story, and what theory of his nationality they would follow if they ever did (Converso? Spanish? Portuguese? Italian? Polish?).
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Post by newt5996 on May 12, 2019 18:33:33 GMT
surprised they have never done a tv, audio and print crossover story
This has been suggested in the past, but there's some suggestion that the terms of the BBC's charter forbids too much of a connection between the BBC's free-to-air material and any paid-for commercial activity; and there's quite a bit of internal politics around encouraging tv audiences to listen to the radio, or vice versa.
As for things the show hasn't done, I was thinking earlier that I don't think we've ever had a Christopher Columbus story, and what theory of his nationality they would follow if they ever did (Converso? Spanish? Portuguese? Italian? Polish?).
Actually Trouble In Paradise Fromm Destiny of the Doctor has Columbus. I think they go with either Spanish or Portuguese for his origin
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 8:32:16 GMT
A lot of classic lit/folklore pastiches I'm shocked haven't happened. Hunchback of Notre Dame. Beauty and the Beast. Sleeping Beauty. The Odyssey. Arséne Lupin (this would have been perfect for 12) You could get a lot of fun out of those. Well, they did Phantom of the Opera with Androzani (and Weng Chiang in a way too) so I would say that they have form in taking classic tales and giving a unique Who flavour to them. Given that fans of the show tend not to like too much 'space opera' or traditional sci-fi tropes (it aint Star Wars or Star Trek and is never going to fit that kind of setting), it seems a good way to go in terms of mining inspiration for future stories rather than too much social commentary, which in itself is good on occasion, but needs to be balanced out with some good old fantasy, without looking at the evils of colonialism/racism and fascism for reference too frequently. Subtlety of story telling rather than being heavy with the allegory. Thinking of the Sorcerers Apprentice (Fantasia version), Adric strikes me as exactly the kind of companion to get caught up in such a scrape, only to be pulled up by the Fourth Doctor who has to clear up the mess afterwards... Oh, I wouldn't necessarily say that. Don't forget the enormous influence of the space opera Dune on The Caves of Androzani. The planet with an invaluable life-changing resource (spice or spectrox), the unstable tripod of power (Vladamir Harkonnen or Morgus), the influence of independent organisations over authority figures (House Harkonnen over the Emperor or the Sirius Conglomerate over the President), and so on. The influence of space opera is strong for a lot of Doctor Who stories. To name only two, where would The Robots of Death be if not for Isaac Asimov's Robot stories? Frontier in Space if not for Dan Dare? And its influence in the right context is a powerful thing, after all, where would the Daleks be if not for their ruthless Master Plan or the Cybermen without Earthshock? Doctor Who has always had this wonderful ability to seesaw and hopscotch through various genres without giving its audiences too much whiplash. For every Masque of Mandragora, there's a Planet of Evil. Sometimes it even manages it in the same story, as in the case of The War Games. It's no more or less difficult to accomplish in the show than other efforts at genre fiction.
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