|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 14, 2019 6:17:19 GMT
Famished lands.
Well, that got.... psychedelic rather quickly.
First off... this basically took an artistic license and ran away with it over the hills. No, this is not how biology and physiology work. Heck, this is not even how physics work if we apply the very basic system of levers and pullies to a body and it's bones and muscles.
{Spoiler} This is why skeleton armies in Fantasy are always held together by magic, that is simpler...
However, as per usual, we really should not take the "science" in these things too serious and apply a healthy suspension of disbelief.
The story itself is great!!! I am amazed how well it works, especially how well the comedic elements are mixed in with the deadly serious and horrendous. This was done VERY well. I sometimes was not sure if I should laugh when the subject matter was so horrific, it really plays with the emotions here.
I am also very happy that the story completely subverts the listeners expectations {Spoiler} Soylent green anyone? I bet it was everybodies first guess. And instead we get something altogether more fantastical.
But, secretly,
{Spoiler} I do really love a zombie skeleton army
And the sound design was perfect. Especially {Spoiler} the scene where the Doctor gets high and sees green monkeys. They still managed to get the funny circus music in which subtly changed when the horrific surroundings turned it into a horror trip for the Doctor.
So yeah, this was great.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Aug 14, 2019 14:13:54 GMT
Fugitive in Time was a fun little runaround, if not very substantial. The Doctor has yet another near miss from the Daleks. Essentially this range in a nutshell.
|
|
|
Post by fingersmash on Aug 14, 2019 14:38:42 GMT
I never knew how much this series was a breath of fresh air. Eight is a tad lighter though still damaged and tired, feeling like a bit of a facade. Bliss is a much brighter companion and feels a lot better to me than Liv and Helen and I'm so glad we're starting to see her get some much needed development for her between State of Bliss and Companion Piece.
Overall, I just need to relisten to all three of the Eighth Doctor Time Wars after Emissary of the Daleks and when I finally get around to Transference.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 14, 2019 20:00:37 GMT
Fugitive in Time. Hmm. I would say this is a pretty standard story. Not to say it is bad, but it is not exactly original and it is pretty predictable how this would play out. Plus we get some Daleks with Stormtrooper battle skills screaming around- which I personally find a bit disappointing. If this is all there is to Dalek strategy, the devious Time Lord schemers would have outwitted them 2 weeks into the time war.
This brings me to a general critique- while we have seen how devious and cruel and heartless the Time Lords have become, the Daleks are seriously lacking in character development. Is there really everything said already that needs to be said? I wish we would get to see a more subtle and sinister side to them, showing them as the threat they are instead of degrading them to mindless screaming cannon fodder that could not hit the ground they were standing on. Maybe we really need to get Davros on board.
So far, I have to say that Fugitives is the weakest story of this set. The previous two had some nice original elements to it and especially Famished Lands was amazing with it's storytelling and the play with the listeners expectations and emotions. Plus we get some hilarious quotes like {Spoiler} "I am from Gallifrey." -"So you are a Dalek." And another thing- the Doctor is really put through the wringer in this set.
{Spoiler} So far in the first 3 stories, we had him tortured and screaming twice, plus tripping balls while suffering from the effects of poison gas
Since the last story is the one with the Valeyard, I do not get my hopes up that the man will be given a break...
However, I am having high hopes for the Valeyard story. Let's see how it turns out...
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Aug 15, 2019 19:39:31 GMT
I thought The War Valeyard was a great concept that isn't quite as well realised as it should be. That's not to say it's bad, far from it, but there's lots of potential there that I think goes unexplored. The story feels like it spends a long time setting events up, which means the actual meat of the story, the confrontation of the Doctor and the Valeyard, doesn't quite reach the heights it should. They have a conversation, we get some exposition, and cue the closing theme. Despite the fleeting last act, we do get some lovely character beats, but I think I'd sacrifice Fugitive in Time and turn this story into a two parter. It's got enough content to do so, just by fleshing out the last 20 minutes or so. I think that would've avoided relying on Tamasan to interrupt events with bouts of exposition. On the subject of Tamasan, she's in full Ollistra mode in this story!
Overall, the set is fine, much like the previous two, except I don't think this one quite reaches the heights of Starship of Theseus or Planet of the Ogrons. It does have two great concepts in The Famished Lands and The War Valeyard, I just wish they'd had longer running times to expand on the more interesting content.
On reflection, The Eighth Doctor: The Time War is an odd little range. In a way, it tries to have its cake and eat it, balancing itself between a more relaxed Doctor than in Dark Eyes, Doom Coalition & Ravenous, with some lighter stories to boot, but also tries to constantly put the Doctor in the midst of the Time War. In a strange way, I think the series should have perhaps distanced itself from the Time War a little. Have one or two Time War stories or elements a set, but also go for those standalone, fun and care free stories that hark back to the Lucie or Charley days. After all, this is a Doctor who is very much against fighting in the Time War, but is aware of its ongoing presence. As it stands, it tries to be light in a Time War environment, with constant dealings with Gallifrey, or near misses from the Daleks. I think that restricts this range a little, with its more laid back take on the Doctor. If it was a more war weary and ravaged Eighth Doctor, like in Rage of the Time Lords or Lie of Ruins, then I think a heavy Time War range would suit better.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 15, 2019 20:43:09 GMT
I thought The War Valeyard was a great concept that isn't quite as well realised as it should be. That's not to say it's bad, far from it, but there's lots of potential there that I think goes unexplored. The story feels like it spends a long time setting events up, which means the actual meat of the story, the confrontation of the Doctor and the Valeyard, doesn't quite reach the heights it should. They have a conversation, we get some exposition, and cue the closing theme. Despite the fleeting last act, we do get some lovely character beats, but I think I'd sacrifice Fugitive in Time and turn this story into a two parter. It's got enough content to do so, just by fleshing out the last 20 minutes or so. I think that would've avoided relying on Tamasan to interrupt events with bouts of exposition. On the subject of Tamasan, she's in full Ollistra mode in this story! Overall, the set is fine, much like the previous two, except I don't think this one quite reaches the heights of Starship of Theseus or Planet of the Ogrons. It does have two great concepts in The Famished Lands and The War Valeyard, I just wish they'd had longer running times to expand on the more interesting content. On reflection, The Eighth Doctor: The Time War is an odd little range. In a way, it tries to have its cake and eat it, balancing itself between a more relaxed Doctor than in Dark Eyes, Doom Coalition & Ravenous, with some lighter stories to boot, but also tries to constantly put the Doctor in the midst of the Time War. In a strange way, I think the series should have perhaps distanced itself from the Time War a little. Have one or two Time War stories or elements a set, but also go for those standalone, fun and care free stories that hark back to the Lucie or Charley days. After all, this is a Doctor who is very much against fighting in the Time War, but is aware of its ongoing presence. As it stands, it tries to be light in a Time War environment, with constant dealings with Gallifrey, or near misses from the Daleks. I think that restricts this range a little, with its more laid back take on the Doctor. If it was a more war weary and ravaged Eighth Doctor, like in Rage of the Time Lords or Lie of Ruins, then I think a heavy Time War range would suit better.THIS. I have not heard the last story of the set yet, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. As so often, you hit the nail on the head there.
Yes, this range is held back a lot by these restrictions it has been chained with. For me at least, it never gets quite up to the heights of Dark Eyes/ Doom Coalition and Ravenous, and that might be exactly the reason.
It is neither flesh nor fish, nor can it somehow decide which one it wants to be.
I really liked the more lighthearted stories like Planet of the Ogrons and also the humor in Famished Lands.
However, I also very much enjoyed Rage of the Time Lords, and Lies in Ruins certainly shocked me to the core.
No wonder this range somehow causes some mood whiplash for the listener, instead of choosing one direction and sticking to it.
If I am prepared, I would also be fine with going full on dark.
Or going the opposite direction and have the Doctor run off with the green monkeys (within reason).
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Aug 15, 2019 21:15:34 GMT
I think Starship of Theseus nailed the balance perfectly, albeit in the wrong order, which I suppose is suitably Time War-esque! What I mean is that you could’ve had three adventures with the Doctor and Emma, exploring the universe and being carefree. This carries on into Theseus and it plays out as is, with the Time War and the Daleks catching up with the Doctor, erasing his companion and producing a new one that’s come direct from the fractured timelines. That’s the sort of set which would be more appropriate for the way they’re portraying this range. The Time War is a presence the Doctor is aware of and actively avoiding, but it’s always lurking round the corner. An arc, of sorts.
Similarly, Planet of the Ogrons and The Famished Lands have some great links to the Time War and are laid back in style and they work pretty well with how the range is crafted. They’d be good standout Time War stories amongst other adventures.
|
|
|
Post by barnabaslives on Aug 16, 2019 14:57:02 GMT
I thought The War Valeyard was a great concept that isn't quite as well realised as it should be. That's not to say it's bad, far from it, but there's lots of potential there that I think goes unexplored. The story feels like it spends a long time setting events up, which means the actual meat of the story, the confrontation of the Doctor and the Valeyard, doesn't quite reach the heights it should. They have a conversation, we get some exposition, and cue the closing theme. Despite the fleeting last act, we do get some lovely character beats, but I think I'd sacrifice Fugitive in Time and turn this story into a two parter. I think I'm in general agreement with this. It would have been nice if the Valeyard could have been woven into more of the stories, and a two-parter might well have served the idea much better, as you suggest. That's really the only complaint I've managed to have with this set. (Of course, the Valeyard could have been in all of the stories and I'd probably still want to have heard more from him). :-) I really like that this story seems to finally cement the Valeyard's origins once and for all, and they seem perfectly appropriate.
|
|
|
Post by elkawho on Aug 17, 2019 4:03:09 GMT
So far this is my favorite of the 3 sets we've had. I finally feel like I'm getting an handle on Bliss and her relationship with The Doctor, and that was sorely needed. I enjoyed all the stories although I need to do a relisten of all the Time War stories as well as Companion Piece and then listen to State of Bliss again.
I do believe The War Valeyard is also my favorite Valeyard story. I loved this. His entire character and motivation are so clear to me here, which I can't always say is the case. The Time War folks have finally hit their stride here.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 17, 2019 8:47:28 GMT
I finished "The War Valeyard". And I loved it. This was a great story and for me the best story of the set. Therefore, my anticipation of this release was well founded and I was not disappointed.
I enjoyed the non-linear writing of the story and also how the expectations of the listener were subverted. So I can understand if some people did not really like this story so much, if they just expected to get a story with a villain who is laughing maniacally in the background (nice touch of the writers to point out exactly that expectation several times in the story!).
No, this story goes much deeper and offers much more on a different level.
I think this was the best way of presenting the Valeyard to us here. If they just had gone down the expected route, this would have been much too similar to the story in Rage of the Timelords where the Doctor confronts the Master. And we already got a great story of the villain Valeyard in Colin's regeneration story.
No, this story
{Spoiler} emphasizes the whole point of the Valeyard- he IS the Doctor. And we are shown the main moral cornerstones on which the character is based on. It also presents one of the tropes of the franchise, in that redemption is possible for even the most callous villain. I admit that I was pretty surprised when we find out that the Doctor's main reason for going to the planet was to RESCUE himself aka. the Valeyard! What a doctorish thing to do! So yes, very well thought out story which works on several levels.
And do I really need to repeat that the cast did a great job with amazing performances?
Now I am looking forward to listening to the extras and learning what thoughts the writers have on their stories.
So in conclusion- great set of stories for Time War 3. It is certainly better than the first 8th Doctor Time War set and on par with the second set. How do the stories shape up? Well, none of the stories is as great as Planet of the Ogrons, or, for that matter, as good as the recent 8th Doctor Time War stories in Rage of the Time Lords and of course, Lies in Ruins in the anniversary set. They were, at least for me, on the next level up. And I still think the recent Doom Coalition/ Ravenous sets just work and flow much better for the 8th Doctor (that's why they are among my favorites).
Still, great effort.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Aug 17, 2019 8:54:27 GMT
The War Valeyard does answer one important question about the War Doctor {Spoiler} Specifically why he didn’t fight with the Time Lords. He remember that they used him once already as a disposable resource.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 17, 2019 9:23:18 GMT
The War Valeyard does answer one important question about the War Doctor {Spoiler} Specifically why he didn’t fight with the Time Lords. He remember that they used him once already as a disposable resource. Yeah. Among other things.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 17, 2019 11:54:55 GMT
Listened to the extras. I am glad to hear that everybody as again very much enjoying themselves. And McGann‘s enthusiasm appears to be unbrokenly high. He really has taken charge on this, hasn‘t he? And then a question for everyone who made it through the War Valeyard story. {Spoiler} At the beginning where the Doctor hits himself after having a nightmare. Did he just fall out of his famous bunk bed (see 11th Doctor TV series) there? Or where was he sleeping? I think for my head canon it will be him falling out of his bunk bed because... a bed with a ladder. How cool is that? Edit: I wonder if even the author John Dorney might potentially shed a light on that... Just thought it was a fun notion.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Aug 17, 2019 16:35:11 GMT
State of BlissI’ll be honest I got totally lost towards the end of that. A lot of random stuff happening for not entirely clear reasons. I’ll have to relisten at some point. {Spoiler} The scene where Bliss nearly died was really oddly performed, Thakrar seemed to pitch it as ‘oh I appear to be dying, what an inconvenience’ rather than the panic you’d expect from such a scene.
Also what was the point of having the Doctor regain his memories of Sheena? It’s not used here to impact his character at all and undermines the whole tragedy that the Doctor never knew her.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Aug 17, 2019 16:44:25 GMT
State of BlissI’ll be honest I got totally lost towards the end of that. A lot of random stuff happening for not entirely clear reasons. I’ll have to relisten at some point. {Spoiler} The scene where Bliss nearly died was really oddly performed, Thakrar seemed to pitch it as ‘oh I appear to be dying, what an inconvenience’ rather than the panic you’d expect from such a scene.
Also what was the point of having the Doctor regain his memories of Sheena? It’s not used here to impact his character at all and undermines the whole tragedy that the Doctor never knew her. I think Thakrar is like that quite often. Bliss is put in mortal danger or is part of universe altering events and she’s performed like she’s just forgot to put some sugar in her tea or something. I don’t find the character interesting to begin with, but the performance just furthers my disinterest. I agree about the second point in your spoiler. Again, it’s a downside of having this relaxed Doctor, who’s part of events that should be damaging his character bit by bit.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 17, 2019 16:46:58 GMT
State of BlissI’ll be honest I got totally lost towards the end of that. A lot of random stuff happening for not entirely clear reasons. I’ll have to relisten at some point. {Spoiler} The scene where Bliss nearly died was really oddly performed, Thakrar seemed to pitch it as ‘oh I appear to be dying, what an inconvenience’ rather than the panic you’d expect from such a scene.
Also what was the point of having the Doctor regain his memories of Sheena? It’s not used here to impact his character at all and undermines the whole tragedy that the Doctor never knew her. I agree that that was a bit of a missed opportunity. I wonder if adding even more tragedy would have made this too dark? However, like you, I think I might have preferred a bit more of it, after all, they have shown how far they are willing to go with breaking the 8th Doctor in Lies in Ruins.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Aug 17, 2019 21:12:44 GMT
Finished the rest of the set. The Famished Lands and Fugitive in Time. Both were the usual standard for this series, some interesting concepts and character work but nothing really amazing. I liked the emphasis on the Time Lords’ reputatio, with The Famished Lands’s demonstration of “who can tell the difference anymore” and Fugitive essentially serving as a reminder that the Time Lords did their fair share of dirty deeds long before the War. The War Valeyard {Spoiler} That was quite good. The Valeyard as the Doctor proper was a refreshing take on the character. The only issue was the Doctor and Bliss didn’t actually do much in the story save gather information, but the Valeyard’s mission was interesting enough by itself.
I do have one major question-are we to assume that the Time Strategist was able to implement a contingency to restore the Daleks as, unless I missed something that reversed it, the Daleks are still erased and the Time War still over by the end of the story.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 18, 2019 6:43:01 GMT
Finished the rest of the set. The Famished Lands and Fugitive in Time. Both were the usual standard for this series, some interesting concepts and character work but nothing really amazing. I liked the emphasis on the Time Lords’ reputatio, with The Famished Lands’s demonstration of “who can tell the difference anymore” and Fugitive essentially serving as a reminder that the Time Lords did their fair share of dirty deeds long before the War. The War Valeyard {Spoiler} That was quite good. The Valeyard as the Doctor proper was a refreshing take on the character. The only issue was the Doctor and Bliss didn’t actually do much in the story save gather information, but the Valeyard’s mission was interesting enough by itself.
I do have one major question-are we to assume that the Time Strategist was able to implement a contingency to restore the Daleks as, unless I missed something that reversed it, the Daleks are still erased and the Time War still over by the end of the story. I think so, I am pretty sure there was a sentence said along these lines. In a blink and you miss it kind of way. I agree with shallacatop that this could have been fleshed out a bit more and a bit longer.
|
|
dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
Likes: 3,063
|
Post by dorney on Aug 18, 2019 7:21:15 GMT
The War Valeyard {Spoiler} That was quite good. The Valeyard as the Doctor proper was a refreshing take on the character. The only issue was the Doctor and Bliss didn’t actually do much in the story save gather information, but the Valeyard’s mission was interesting enough by itself.
I do have one major question-are we to assume that the Time Strategist was able to implement a contingency to restore the Daleks as, unless I missed something that reversed it, the Daleks are still erased and the Time War still over by the end of the story. {Spoiler}
You didn’t miss anything. The Daleks are still erased and the Time War is still over at the end. Plus the Doctor’s taken a ride through a dimensional portal to who knows where...
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Aug 18, 2019 10:51:02 GMT
The War Valeyard {Spoiler} That was quite good. The Valeyard as the Doctor proper was a refreshing take on the character. The only issue was the Doctor and Bliss didn’t actually do much in the story save gather information, but the Valeyard’s mission was interesting enough by itself.
I do have one major question-are we to assume that the Time Strategist was able to implement a contingency to restore the Daleks as, unless I missed something that reversed it, the Daleks are still erased and the Time War still over by the end of the story. {Spoiler}
You didn’t miss anything. The Daleks are still erased and the Time War is still over at the end. Plus the Doctor’s taken a ride through a dimensional portal to who knows where... Okay, that clears that one up at least...
|
|