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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 14:38:20 GMT
I worked out today that i play my CDs a lot more than i listen to my downloads.This has really affected my listening to the Originals Range. There is something that when i scan through the CDs and pull one out look at the cover remember-the thrill of first listening. With the Original range i dont get that thrill lol so i have listened to them less than i actually should.
Just one of my random thoughts on a sunday afternoon. Come on Big Finish PUT a Physical out there and I must just paythe HIGH PRICE for Transference lol🤪😂
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 15:20:21 GMT
If you could convince BF that you had at least 1000 other friends to buy them too, like the lowest print run they've done (Class' 1&2 bundle) you may have some luck.
It's not without precedent - Dorian got the Series-1&2 boxset after being digital only but Dorian really caught fire fast so probably gave BF more confidence in its viability and was a much cheaper range than the Originals bundle. That first Dorian box was what? £25 - bargain of the century. Even then it came in cheaper casing, the spindle with stacked discs
The Originals are so varied that I can see why they didn't make them physical products initially - someone into ATA Girl may find nothing of interest in Blind Terror and someone into Jeremiah Bourne may not want to buy something like Cicero. BF will know the response each of these have gotten independently of the others, know the feedback and how many standalone orders outside the bundle offer they got. If one, two or more surpassed their expectations then - hey - maybe they'll release hard copies as a limited run. Though how many of their target audience have already bought the download and don't want to double dip?
I wouldn't hold my breath - the world has been moving digital for over a decade and it's only going to further in that direction. The toothpaste, sadly, won't go back in the tube. Hence things like the Doctor Who blu ray range being limited editions designed for collector's markets. Selling smaller amounts to niche but dieheard audiences is the only way physical media is hanging on. I just think the Originals may be too niche to demand hard copies. Ata Girl got, I think, the best response - would they make much, or enough even, doing a boxset of ATA Girl now over a year after a large chunk of the audience interested will have bought it? We can't know for sure but I think not, and BF don't or they would have done it by now I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 16:02:12 GMT
If you could convince BF that you had at least 1000 other friends to buy them too, like the lowest print run they've done (Class' 1&2 bundle) you may have some luck. It's not without precedent - Dorian got the Series-1&2 boxset after being digital only but Dorian really caught fire fast so probably gave BF more confidence in its viability and was a much cheaper range than the Originals bundle. That first Dorian box was what? £25 - bargain of the century. Even then it came in cheaper casing, the spindle with stacked discs The Originals are so varied that I can see why they didn't make them physical products initially - someone into ATA Girl may find nothing of interest in Blind Terror and someone into Jeremiah Bourne may not want to buy something like Cicero. BF will know the response each of these have gotten independently of the others, know the feedback and how many standalone orders outside the bundle offer they got. If one, two or more surpassed their expectations then - hey - maybe they'll release hard copies as a limited run. Though how many of their target audience have already bought the download and don't want to double dip? I wouldn't hold my breath - the world has been moving digital for over a decade and it's only going to further in that direction. The toothpaste, sadly, won't go back in the tube. Hence things like the Doctor Who blu ray range being limited editions designed for collector's markets. Selling smaller amounts to niche but dieheard audiences is the only way physical media is hanging on. I just think the Originals may be too niche to demand hard copies. Ata Girl got, I think, the best response - would they make much, or enough even, doing a boxset of ATA Girl now over a year after a large chunk of the audience interested will have bought it? We can't know for sure but I think not, and BF don't or they would have done it by now I think. Yes I do see your point it’s just a thing with me a personal choice and probably making it a limited run of 100 wouldn’t be cost effective but am sure having a limited amount to sell at BF events would encourage others (or Not) I would have loved the Originals as a Cd but I realise at 53 am an old timer now....but hey in the event of my demise sad or otherwise lol I can leave them behind for my eager sisters nieces and nephews lol. My mother who is 75 would have loved a physical copy of ATA GIRL .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 17:23:16 GMT
Just to add, Dorian made its debut 7 years ago, when the market generally was still favouring CDs over downloads. Across the board, that balance has changed entirely in recent years as more people embrace downloads, even for content that is available on CD.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 17:38:54 GMT
Just to add, Dorian made its debut 7 years ago, when the market generally was still favouring CDs over downloads. Across the board, that balance has changed entirely in recent years as more people embrace downloads, even for content that is available on CD. Ahhh Scott ..BLIND TERROR-Gods Of Frost would have had a proud place on my shelf/Floor/wall wherever there was space.😎😍
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2019 18:16:04 GMT
I'd also imagine - even taking the download v physical trend in culture generally away - there are certainly more people who used to buy BF overseas now strictly digital because of the changes in BF's international sales, like the per-order charge. I know on this forum alone we've got a few who used to buy everything hard copy, now only download because of cost, a good few more who wait and just do an order every few months rather than on announcement and a few others who still do hard copies but only for Doctor Who titles, downloading anything spinoff or unrelated.
When an entire Who range - Short Trips - is DL only, with DW the jewel in the BF crown, and they seem pretty self-sustaining, I think it's more likely to see more digital only releases than less going forward. BF probably bucked (and continue to buck) the trend a bit longer than some others have due to an older audience but in a world where even my mum, only a few years younger than yours Causality, has gone from being tech-phobic to having her own smartphone, knowing all about apps, catch-up, streaming, etc in less than a decade....I don't think the tide will turn back.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 21, 2019 21:25:37 GMT
I am a bit more "sparing" with my physical purchases through BF purely because the per order charge has changed the game. I still pre ordered "Legacy Of Time" within 20 mins of the news being released last year, that was a hit I was willing to take given the speciality of the story.
Even with the flash sales etc since the per order charge, I do comparisons and any savings gets eaten up which is unfortunate :-(
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 22, 2019 0:55:31 GMT
I am a bit more "sparing" with my physical purchases through BF purely because the per order charge has changed the game. I still pre ordered "Legacy Of Time" within 20 mins of the news being released last year, that was a hit I was willing to take given the speciality of the story. Even with the flash sales etc since the per order charge, I do comparisons and any savings gets eaten up which is unfortunate :-( Does it really, though? I'm one of the (now rare) overseas people who still gets everything he buys on CD and, like davy said earlier, there are certain pre-order patterns you can make use of to lessen the blow of the per order charge. The same is true of sales. I'll admit, if you only wanted to buy a single case CD or box set then the per order charge would significantly reduce your savings (or potentially remove them...), but if you buy as few as three individual releases in a sale then the per order charge is spread between those three and, ultimately, doesn't make that much difference. I've always found the per order charge to make a much bigger difference to pre-orders; again, as davy said, I now pre-order in three-month blocks rather than on announcement as it means I can get three month's worth of new releases with only one per order charge. But I really don't see why such a big deal is made about sales. For example, I've bought up to ten box sets (or single releases) in a single sale, making the per order charge per item amount to about AU$1 extra. I think that's pretty reasonable if it helps Big Finish stay afloat It also doesn't amount to much in terms of the savings lost. As long as you pick your sales and have the budget to get more items in them, the per order charge isn't that big of hurdle. (For what it's worth, I do know that BF is a luxury item and not everybody can afford as much as others. If you are an overseas CD purchasers, the best thing to do is to be smart about your spending and plan for future sales/pre-order groups )
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 22, 2019 1:39:06 GMT
I am a bit more "sparing" with my physical purchases through BF purely because the per order charge has changed the game. I still pre ordered "Legacy Of Time" within 20 mins of the news being released last year, that was a hit I was willing to take given the speciality of the story. Even with the flash sales etc since the per order charge, I do comparisons and any savings gets eaten up which is unfortunate :-( Does it really, though? I'm one of the (now rare) overseas people who still gets everything he buys on CD and, like davy said earlier, there are certain pre-order patterns you can make use of to lessen the blow of the per order charge. The same is true of sales. I'll admit, if you only wanted to buy a single case CD or box set then the per order charge would significantly reduce your savings (or potentially remove them...), but if you buy as few as three individual releases in a sale then the per order charge is spread between those three and, ultimately, doesn't make that much difference. I've always found the per order charge to make a much bigger difference to pre-orders; again, as davy said, I now pre-order in three-month blocks rather than on announcement as it means I can get three month's worth of new releases with only one per order charge. But I really don't see why such a big deal is made about sales. For example, I've bought up to ten box sets (or single releases) in a single sale, making the per order charge per item amount to about AU$1 extra. I think that's pretty reasonable if it helps Big Finish stay afloat It also doesn't amount to much in terms of the savings lost. As long as you pick your sales and have the budget to get more items in them, the per order charge isn't that big of hurdle. (For what it's worth, I do know that BF is a luxury item and not everybody can afford as much as others. If you are an overseas CD purchasers, the best thing to do is to be smart about your spending and plan for future sales/pre-order groups ) For me yes... A few years ago when BF were having almost weekly $ales I was cleaning up of everything I didn't have at that time- My biggest order was over AUST $300 in 1 hit.. was doing multiple orders per week, these were surprise $ales which was great I took full advantage then, I can't now. Not with a child I have to buy sparingly, but I do buy in bulk- I also compare everytime with a certain other online big company, they pretty much give me substantial discounts comparitively. Special event stories like Legacy Of Time, the 10th Doctor boxets etc I will immediately order from BF and wear the co$t, but I have to budget now- can no longer afford spending mortgage-payment size orders in 1 hit anymore
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2019 1:42:47 GMT
I am a bit more "sparing" with my physical purchases through BF purely because the per order charge has changed the game. I still pre ordered "Legacy Of Time" within 20 mins of the news being released last year, that was a hit I was willing to take given the speciality of the story. Even with the flash sales etc since the per order charge, I do comparisons and any savings gets eaten up which is unfortunate :-( Does it really, though? I'm one of the (now rare) overseas people who still gets everything he buys on CD and, like davy said earlier, there are certain pre-order patterns you can make use of to lessen the blow of the per order charge. The same is true of sales. I'll admit, if you only wanted to buy a single case CD or box set then the per order charge would significantly reduce your savings (or potentially remove them...), but if you buy as few as three individual releases in a sale then the per order charge is spread between those three and, ultimately, doesn't make that much difference. I've always found the per order charge to make a much bigger difference to pre-orders; again, as davy said, I now pre-order in three-month blocks rather than on announcement as it means I can get three month's worth of new releases with only one per order charge. But I really don't see why such a big deal is made about sales. For example, I've bought up to ten box sets (or single releases) in a single sale, making the per order charge per item amount to about AU$1 extra. I think that's pretty reasonable if it helps Big Finish stay afloat It also doesn't amount to much in terms of the savings lost. As long as you pick your sales and have the budget to get more items in them, the per order charge isn't that big of hurdle. (For what it's worth, I do know that BF is a luxury item and not everybody can afford as much as others. If you are an overseas CD purchasers, the best thing to do is to be smart about your spending and plan for future sales/pre-order groups ) I think that's an excellent post. Mostly because you said I was right twice. Broken clocks and all that! It may be, if BF change their digital prices as it seems they are doing imminently, some go back to ordering physical more often again since it may not be much cheaper digitally going forward, if so you've got the best ideas when it comes to buying physical items. BF did send out fair warning things won't stay in print for years and years going forward though even Who titles so I'd suggest people don't wait tooooo long if they can avoid it. I can't remember the announcement exactly but was it that everything would be in print for a year, then reprinted after that only if its viable? To avoid having warehouses full of unsold stock, a la the warehouse sales. I'm sure old school fans will remember when we were literally given free CDs of Fly Me To The Moon and The Treason Show as BF couldn't flog them no matter how cheap! When even titles like relatively new Blake's 7 and all of the Dark Shadows readings, only a few years old some of them, were in the warehouse sale...I think it tells you things just aren't as viable on hard copy these days.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 22, 2019 2:54:51 GMT
Does it really, though? I'm one of the (now rare) overseas people who still gets everything he buys on CD and, like davy said earlier, there are certain pre-order patterns you can make use of to lessen the blow of the per order charge. The same is true of sales. I'll admit, if you only wanted to buy a single case CD or box set then the per order charge would significantly reduce your savings (or potentially remove them...), but if you buy as few as three individual releases in a sale then the per order charge is spread between those three and, ultimately, doesn't make that much difference. I've always found the per order charge to make a much bigger difference to pre-orders; again, as davy said, I now pre-order in three-month blocks rather than on announcement as it means I can get three month's worth of new releases with only one per order charge. But I really don't see why such a big deal is made about sales. For example, I've bought up to ten box sets (or single releases) in a single sale, making the per order charge per item amount to about AU$1 extra. I think that's pretty reasonable if it helps Big Finish stay afloat It also doesn't amount to much in terms of the savings lost. As long as you pick your sales and have the budget to get more items in them, the per order charge isn't that big of hurdle. (For what it's worth, I do know that BF is a luxury item and not everybody can afford as much as others. If you are an overseas CD purchasers, the best thing to do is to be smart about your spending and plan for future sales/pre-order groups ) For me yes... A few years ago when BF were having almost weekly $ales I was cleaning up of everything I didn't have at that time- My biggest order was over AUST $300 in 1 hit.. was doing multiple orders per week, these were surprise $ales which was great I took full advantage then, I can't now. Not with a child I have to buy sparingly, but I do buy in bulk- I also compare everytime with a certain other online big company, they pretty much give me substantial discounts comparitively. Special event stories like Legacy Of Time, the 10th Doctor boxets etc I will immediately order from BF and wear the co$t, but I have to budget now- can no longer afford spending mortgage-payment size orders in 1 hit anymore
That makes perfect sense. You've got to prioritise the important things I, being 21 and single, don't really have anything else to spend my spare cash on, so I probably have a skewed angle on things anyway Just wanted to say that I didn't mean to come off as too brash in my original post. Reading it back, it might be read as a bit confrontational.
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 22, 2019 2:56:43 GMT
Does it really, though? I'm one of the (now rare) overseas people who still gets everything he buys on CD and, like davy said earlier, there are certain pre-order patterns you can make use of to lessen the blow of the per order charge. The same is true of sales. I'll admit, if you only wanted to buy a single case CD or box set then the per order charge would significantly reduce your savings (or potentially remove them...), but if you buy as few as three individual releases in a sale then the per order charge is spread between those three and, ultimately, doesn't make that much difference. I've always found the per order charge to make a much bigger difference to pre-orders; again, as davy said, I now pre-order in three-month blocks rather than on announcement as it means I can get three month's worth of new releases with only one per order charge. But I really don't see why such a big deal is made about sales. For example, I've bought up to ten box sets (or single releases) in a single sale, making the per order charge per item amount to about AU$1 extra. I think that's pretty reasonable if it helps Big Finish stay afloat It also doesn't amount to much in terms of the savings lost. As long as you pick your sales and have the budget to get more items in them, the per order charge isn't that big of hurdle. (For what it's worth, I do know that BF is a luxury item and not everybody can afford as much as others. If you are an overseas CD purchasers, the best thing to do is to be smart about your spending and plan for future sales/pre-order groups ) I think that's an excellent post. Mostly because you said I was right twice. Broken clocks and all that! It may be, if BF change their digital prices as it seems they are doing imminently, some go back to ordering physical more often again since it may not be much cheaper digitally going forward, if so you've got the best ideas when it comes to buying physical items. BF did send out fair warning things won't stay in print for years and years going forward though even Who titles so I'd suggest people don't wait tooooo long if they can avoid it. I can't remember the announcement exactly but was it that everything would be in print for a year, then reprinted after that only if its viable? To avoid having warehouses full of unsold stock, a la the warehouse sales. I'm sure old school fans will remember when we were literally given free CDs of Fly Me To The Moon and The Treason Show as BF couldn't flog them no matter how cheap! When even titles like relatively new Blake's 7 and all of the Dark Shadows readings, only a few years old some of them, were in the warehouse sale...I think it tells you things just aren't as viable on hard copy these days. Yeah, I remember that. I think it came out around June. The announcement also said they would let us know which, if any, titles weren't being reprinted. One assumes that everything from June last year sold reasonably well, as we haven't been told anything is going out of print yet.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 22, 2019 3:34:05 GMT
For me yes... A few years ago when BF were having almost weekly $ales I was cleaning up of everything I didn't have at that time- My biggest order was over AUST $300 in 1 hit.. was doing multiple orders per week, these were surprise $ales which was great I took full advantage then, I can't now. Not with a child I have to buy sparingly, but I do buy in bulk- I also compare everytime with a certain other online big company, they pretty much give me substantial discounts comparitively. Special event stories like Legacy Of Time, the 10th Doctor boxets etc I will immediately order from BF and wear the co$t, but I have to budget now- can no longer afford spending mortgage-payment size orders in 1 hit anymore
That makes perfect sense. You've got to prioritise the important things I, being 21 and single, don't really have anything else to spend my spare cash on, so I probably have a skewed angle on things anyway Just wanted to say that I didn't mean to come off as too brash in my original post. Reading it back, it might be read as a bit confrontational. Nah, all good - I know what you mean..
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 23, 2019 8:19:12 GMT
One thing that has always struck me about BF and physical CDs is how much new stuff they release every month. The warehouse space required to store it all must increase exponentially. There are things they can do to manage it, such as clearance sales and holding as little stock as possible. But logically they will sooner or later have to spill over into a 2nd warehouse or move to a bigger warehouse with all the costs involved if they keep releasing new stuff at the same rate unless they start letting stuff go our of print.
So yes, whilst the change in the market towards downloads and away from physical is very important, it's not the only factor pushing BF down that road.
And as well as BF warehouse space, there is customer's storage space - we can't keep extending our houses just to create more storage space for CDs (!)
I think BF will never end up completely DL only but they will eventually get to a point where only the very popular ranges (I'm thinking DW box sets in which an actual Doctor appears) get a limited print run of 500 / 1,000 copies and that is it. BF will take a long time to get there and it will only be when the MR goes DL only that we will have fully arrived at that point. Physical prices will gradually increase relative to DL prices, thereby reducing some of the demand for CDs. Smaller print runs mean higher costs per item, therefore pushing prices up further, therefore prompting more customers to switch - it ends up a vicious circle. Some of the less popular (non-DW) ranges will likely move to DL only first but most of the others will follow eventually, with only a few "limited print run" exceptions.
I wouldn't like to put a time scale on this prediction but that is the way I see it going.
A thought has just occurred as I was typing the above - maybe that is why BF has not done another MR super-sub, because they don't want to commit to CD production on the MR for the next 3 to 4 years?
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 23, 2019 8:40:14 GMT
One thing that has always struck me about BF and physical CDs is how much new stuff they release every month. The warehouse space required to store it all must increase exponentially. There are things they can do to manage it, such as And as well as BF warehouse space, there is customer's storage space - we can't keep extending our houses just to create more storage space for CDs (!) I did ! Sold my townhouse and got a 3 bedroom big house with a big shed that's being converted currently to hold all my collectibles . I know, I am the exception rather than the rule. Will always 100% be a physical purchaser first over digital. :-)
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Post by Ela on Jul 23, 2019 23:04:04 GMT
A thought has just occurred as I was typing the above - maybe that is why BF has not done another MR super-sub, because they don't want to commit to CD production on the MR for the next 3 to 4 years? Or perhaps they can't afford to offer such a discount again.
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Aug 12, 2019 18:19:57 GMT
Sadly, CDs are on their way out. I think within the next year BF will offer 101-200 (or even beyond that) as part of a warehouse sale to get rid of their existing stock.
I don't think they will completely disappear though, and as davy has mentioned in relation to other products (like the DW Blu-rays) they will be offered as special limited runs to satisfy the collector.
I imagine they are planning on doing another super-sub but are trying to work out how to do it with limited CD runs.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Aug 13, 2019 9:20:48 GMT
Sadly, CDs are on their way out. I think within the next year BF will offer 101-200 (or even beyond that) as part of a warehouse sale to get rid of their existing stock. I don't think they will completely disappear though, and as davy has mentioned in relation to other products (like the DW Blu-rays) they will be offered as special limited runs to satisfy the collector. I imagine they are planning on doing another super-sub but are trying to work out how to do it with limited CD runs. The super-subs were time-limited offers, so if they offered one for far out enough in the future they would then have a certain number of physical CD sales "in the bag" which would reduce the risk of investing in physical stock for the period covered by the super sub. It would be really interesting to know, but I don't think we ever will, how many physical CDs of a MR story are initially produced, how many of those go out to subscribers/pre-orderers straight away, how many go to 3rd party retailers and how many go into BF's own stock to cover future demand. I suspect the numbers might be smaller than we think.
Does anybody know from their own experience the minimum quantity for a CD production run at a half sensible cost per CD? I imagine the cost per CD comes down as the quantity increases, but the law of diminishing returns would apply, so BF must have an optimal quantity that balances a low cost per unit with a realistic level of CD sales
If a super-sub went ahead but got a low uptake of CD sales, BF could find themselves in the future committed to producing low quantities of CDs to honour their commitments in the super-sub, but at a higher cost per unit and with no mechanism to raise the price to super-subscribers who have already paid.
I suppose they could offer a DL only super-sub to get round this and let CD buyers take out normal 6 or 12 month subs.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Aug 13, 2019 9:35:18 GMT
Sadly, CDs are on their way out. I think within the next year BF will offer 101-200 (or even beyond that) as part of a warehouse sale to get rid of their existing stock. I don't think they will completely disappear though, and as davy has mentioned in relation to other products (like the DW Blu-rays) they will be offered as special limited runs to satisfy the collector. I imagine they are planning on doing another super-sub but are trying to work out how to do it with limited CD runs. The super-subs were time-limited offers, so if they offered one for far out enough in the future they would then have a certain number of physical CD sales "in the bag" which would reduce the risk of investing in physical stock for the period covered by the super sub. It would be really interesting to know, but I don't think we ever will, how many physical CDs of a MR story are initially produced, how many of those go out to subscribers/pre-orderers straight away, how many go to 3rd party retailers and how many go into BF's own stock to cover future demand. I suspect the numbers might be smaller than we think.
Does anybody know from their own experience the minimum quantity for a CD production run at a half sensible cost per CD? I imagine the cost per CD comes down as the quantity increases, but the law of diminishing returns would apply, so BF must have an optimal quantity that balances a low cost per unit with a realistic level of CD sales
If a super-sub went ahead but got a low uptake of CD sales, BF could find themselves in the future committed to producing low quantities of CDs to honour their commitments in the super-sub, but at a higher cost per unit and with no mechanism to raise the price to super-subscribers who have already paid.
I suppose they could offer a DL only super-sub to get round this and let CD buyers take out normal 6 or 12 month subs.
I have some musician friends - anywhere from about 500 to 5,000 cd's on average
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Aug 13, 2019 9:55:40 GMT
The super-subs were time-limited offers, so if they offered one for far out enough in the future they would then have a certain number of physical CD sales "in the bag" which would reduce the risk of investing in physical stock for the period covered by the super sub. It would be really interesting to know, but I don't think we ever will, how many physical CDs of a MR story are initially produced, how many of those go out to subscribers/pre-orderers straight away, how many go to 3rd party retailers and how many go into BF's own stock to cover future demand. I suspect the numbers might be smaller than we think.
Does anybody know from their own experience the minimum quantity for a CD production run at a half sensible cost per CD? I imagine the cost per CD comes down as the quantity increases, but the law of diminishing returns would apply, so BF must have an optimal quantity that balances a low cost per unit with a realistic level of CD sales
If a super-sub went ahead but got a low uptake of CD sales, BF could find themselves in the future committed to producing low quantities of CDs to honour their commitments in the super-sub, but at a higher cost per unit and with no mechanism to raise the price to super-subscribers who have already paid.
I suppose they could offer a DL only super-sub to get round this and let CD buyers take out normal 6 or 12 month subs.
I have some musician friends - anywhere from about 500 to 5,000 cd's on average I guess the MR would be much closer to 500 than 5000 per release
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