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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 12:02:29 GMT
I really like that cover, particularly Dreyus in the middle there  So, just to get things straight, the First Master has met: the First Doctor ( The Destination Wars), the Second Doctor, ( The Home Guard), probably the Fourth Doctor judging by Twitter (in an as-yet unconfirmed story), and now the Seventh in The Psychic Circus. He gets around a bit, doesn't he  Well "Someone" has cast doubt on that "Unspecified maybe later"
Regards
mark687
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Post by Whovitt on Jul 24, 2019 12:40:01 GMT
I really like that cover, particularly Dreyus in the middle there So, just to get things straight, the First Master has met: the First Doctor ( The Destination Wars), the Second Doctor, ( The Home Guard), probably the Fourth Doctor judging by Twitter (in an as-yet unconfirmed story), and now the Seventh in The Psychic Circus. He gets around a bit, doesn't he Well "Someone" has cast doubt on that "Unspecified maybe later"
Regards
mark687
Well, even then, he's still meeting at least three Doctors. That's pretty impressive for a brand new incarnation. It took MacQueen four years to meet three, and Dreyfus is managing it in a little over two! |
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 13:54:22 GMT
BF might have to say something about the release Twitter gone a digging and it turns out most of the guest cast have an unsocially accepted opinion on one of the current Hot Button Subjects.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 24, 2019 13:58:00 GMT
BF might have to say something about the release Twitter gone a digging and it turns out most of the guest cast have an unsocially accepted opinion on one of the Hot Button Subjects. Regards mark687 Really Mark? You are fine with putting that kind of vague post on here? |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 24, 2019 14:03:42 GMT
BF might have to say something about the release Twitter gone a digging and it turns out most of the guest cast have an unsocially accepted opinion on one of the current Hot Button Subjects. Regards mark687 That's a bit of a cryptic post - who has said what? |
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 14:06:31 GMT
BF might have to say something about the release Twitter gone a digging and it turns out most of the guest cast have an unsocially accepted opinion on one of the Hot Button Subjects. Regards mark687 Really Mark? You are fine with putting that kind of vague post on here? Dreyfus's Trans opinion is on Record, now apparently, Chris Jury and Ian Redington both denied there's Anti-Semitism in The Labour Party
Regards
mark687
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 14:13:58 GMT
Dreyfus's Trans opinion is on Record, now apparently, Chris Jury and Ian Redington both denied there's Anti-Semitism in Labour
Regards
mark687
What would you like BF to say about that? Honestly I don't know but the reactions got to be addressed somehow surely?
Regards
mark687
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 24, 2019 14:21:47 GMT
What would you like BF to say about that? Honestly I don't know but the reactions got to be addressed somehow surely?
Regards
mark687
Do they? Don’t they? I don’t know. And is this the best place on this forum to have this discussion? |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 6,032
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 24, 2019 14:22:54 GMT
Really Mark? You are fine with putting that kind of vague post on here? Dreyfus's Trans opinion is on Record, now apparently, Chris Jury and Ian Redington both denied there's Anti-Semitism in The Labour Party
Regards
mark687
I think the problem is that if one starts setting a gold standard for what are "acceptable" opinions and then starts boycotting / ostracising everyone who expresses "unacceptable" opinions that fall below that standard you sooner or later end up all alone. If BF were to start vetting everyone they employ by trawling every public statement they have ever made they would end up with a very small pool of actors/writers/directors to choose from.
We're all imperfect, flawed human beings and we all fall short in lots of different ways. I'm not condoning any of the opinions you refer to above, but the reality is that a legalistic approach condemns us all sooner or later - we all need a bit of grace.
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" etc.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 14:26:53 GMT
Honestly I don't know but the reactions got to be addressed somehow surely?
Regards
mark687
Do they? Don’t they? I don’t know. And is this the best place on this forum to have this discussion? Ok then I apologise
I'll just stick to Twitter gone into meltdown over it then
Regards
mark687
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Post by cwm on Jul 24, 2019 14:28:07 GMT
FWIW: I believe The Psychic Circus was recorded quite a while ago, going by Stephen Wyatt's post on his website about it, and Briggs was made aware of Dreyfus' comments on a Facebook Q&A and seemed quite shocked about them, saying something to the effect that he was unaware of them but that was no excuse and he apologised. So it may be that they have quietly decided to not make any more stories with Dreyfus' Master, but release the content they have already recorded with him anyway.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 14:34:36 GMT
FWIW: I believe The Psychic Circus was recorded quite a while ago, going by Stephen Wyatt's post on his website about it, and Briggs was made aware of Dreyfus' comments on a Facebook Q&A and seemed quite shocked about them, saying something to the effect that he was unaware of them but that was no excuse and he apologised. So it may be that they have quietly decided to not make any more stories with Dreyfus' Master, but release the content they have already recorded with him anyway. Well its was 4 months ago but if its been addressed since then...storm over until any the forthcoming ones get released
Regards
mark687
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Post by levi3o4 on Jul 24, 2019 14:40:51 GMT
Honestly I don't know but the reactions got to be addressed somehow surely?
Regards
mark687
Do they? Don’t they? I don’t know. And is this the best place on this forum to have this discussion? Honestly, my first impulse is to respond to this "Do they?" line of questioning... Really negatively. Transphobia is a real thing, and anti-semitism is a real thing. They affect real people. I don't know if you're on the receiving end of either, but for those of us who are, they're a big deal. Working with an actor is, to a certain extent, an endorsement of them as a person. There's a reason bts material tends to always include a section talking about how wonderful each individual actor is. And as for whether this is the appropriate spot to discuss that... Well, it's the thread for the affected product range, isn't it? A separate thread later might be nice, but at the moment, this seems pretty appropriate. This sort of "but should we really be talking about this? And here?" invalidates the urgency of the concern. If you don't see that urgency... Maybe look at it from someone else's point of view. |
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Post by masterdoctor on Jul 24, 2019 14:51:18 GMT
I think it's very simple actually. Big Finish plans and contracts these actors months in advance, therefore, while it was recorded in March, it was likely in pre-production early last year. Big Finish is also able to choose who they want to work with, and that is within their choice, but they also have to honour previous agreements.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 24, 2019 14:57:44 GMT
I think it's very simple actually. Big Finish plans and contracts these actors months in advance, therefore, while it was recorded in March, it was likely in pre-production early last year. Big Finish is also able to choose who they want to work with, and that is within their choice, but they also have to honour previous agreements. If that's the case some of those recording sessions were possibly awkward
Regards
mark687
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 24, 2019 15:15:11 GMT
Do they? Don’t they? I don’t know. And is this the best place on this forum to have this discussion? Honestly, my first impulse is to respond to this "Do they?" line of questioning... Really negatively. Transphobia is a real thing, and anti-semitism is a real thing. They affect real people. I don't know if you're on the receiving end of either, but for those of us who are, they're a big deal. Working with an actor is, to a certain extent, an endorsement of them as a person. There's a reason bts material tends to always include a section talking about how wonderful each individual actor is. And as for whether this is the appropriate spot to discuss that... Well, it's the thread for the affected product range, isn't it? A separate thread later might be nice, but at the moment, this seems pretty appropriate. This sort of "but should we really be talking about this? And here?" invalidates the urgency of the concern. If you don't see that urgency... Maybe look at it from someone else's point of view. I know these things are real. I work with trans performers and see firsthand the difficulties and pain they have to endure because of ignorance and bigotry. I know anti-semitism exists. It was the vagueness of Mark’s initial post that got my temper up. If my response to him was too glib, then I apologize for that. That said, no I don’t think this is the section of the forum to discus the backgrounds, beliefs and comments of talent Big Finish employs. Others mileage may vary. |
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Post by Ela on Jul 24, 2019 15:27:32 GMT
Really Mark? You are fine with putting that kind of vague post on here? Dreyfus's Trans opinion is on Record, now apparently, Chris Jury and Ian Redington both denied there's Anti-Semitism in The Labour Party
Regards
mark687
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Post by Ela on Jul 24, 2019 15:30:10 GMT
Honestly, my first impulse is to respond to this "Do they?" line of questioning... Really negatively. Transphobia is a real thing, and anti-semitism is a real thing. They affect real people. I don't know if you're on the receiving end of either, but for those of us who are, they're a big deal. Working with an actor is, to a certain extent, an endorsement of them as a person. There's a reason bts material tends to always include a section talking about how wonderful each individual actor is. And as for whether this is the appropriate spot to discuss that... Well, it's the thread for the affected product range, isn't it? A separate thread later might be nice, but at the moment, this seems pretty appropriate. This sort of "but should we really be talking about this? And here?" invalidates the urgency of the concern. If you don't see that urgency... Maybe look at it from someone else's point of view. I know these things are real. I work with trans performers and see firsthand the difficulties and pain they have to endure because of ignorance and bigotry. I know anti-semitism exists. It was the vagueness of Mark’s initial post that got my temper up. If my response to him was too glib, then I apologize for that. That said, no I don’t think this is the section of the forum to discus the backgrounds, beliefs and comments of talent Big Finish employs. Others mileage may vary. Have to agree with this. Probably time to move on to actually discussing the releases. |
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Post by levi3o4 on Jul 24, 2019 16:27:59 GMT
I know these things are real. I work with trans performers and see firsthand the difficulties and pain they have to endure because of ignorance and bigotry. I know anti-semitism exists. It was the vagueness of Mark’s initial post that got my temper up. If my response to him was too glib, then I apologize for that. That said, no I don’t think this is the section of the forum to discus the backgrounds, beliefs and comments of talent Big Finish employs. Others mileage may vary. Have to agree with this. Probably time to move on to actually discussing the releases. I'm confused. Aren't the art-isn't-produced-in-a-vacuum aspects of a story an intrinsic part of experiencing that story? This release is a sequel to an iconic story from one of the most explicitly progressive eras of Doctor Who history. The fact that it costars... Let's be kind: people with "issues" related to transphobia and antisemitism provides an interesting juxtaposition within the story. Would discussing that interplay, both on a creative level and a listener-experience level, be more consistent with the stated purpose of this thread? |
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Post by Lafayette on Jul 24, 2019 17:32:27 GMT
The issue with Dreyfus isn’t that his view is some opposing “political” opinion. To simply call them “opinions” is undermining how harmful his transphobic views are.
Doctor Who means the world to a lot of viewers/listeners, and undoubtedly there’s a considerable portion that identify as trans. I can’t imagine how they feel when a company they love (Big Finish) continues to work with someone, Dreyfus, who’s made it publicly clear that he doesn’t support trans people. It unfortunately adds a sour taste to the whole thing, and makes trans fans feel like they’re outcasts when they feel unwelcome by one of the big actors in a story. Nobody wants to feel unwanted like that.
I find it equally disheartening that a few people here are trying to sideline the subject by suggesting that another thread should be made (I’d be curious to see who’d actually follow up and participate in it vs. those who may be just saying it to avoid it). I get it, though: this release sounds awesome and exciting, so I understand the desire to talk about the news, and everyone is completely entitled to do so! No one likes it when someone comes in and ruins the fun. But to quite a few, this release has a big elephant in the room and the fun was already tainted for them when a particular actor decided to say terrible things.
I myself am really conflicted on this. I’m excited for the release and want to hear the story, but more importantly I don’t want to support someone who holds such harmful views while they are part of something I love. It’s just an all-around bummer :/
I hope I haven’t come across as “that guy” who’s rained on your parade. I even hate the idea of me doing that. I also want to make it clear that I'm not telling you how to feel. If anything, this is how I feel about it. And I felt there wasn’t a lot of consideration being put forth (at the moment) for those who feel disappointed and saddened by this, and I wanted to at least voice some valid concerns that I worried were being swept away before they were even heard.
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