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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 27, 2019 1:34:57 GMT
Boy, if there was ever a story in this franchise that is the embodiment of 'doesn't stick to landing', this might be it. Starts out really strong, atmospheric, eerie, creepy; the idea of taking familiar faces and making them so completely alien could make for something really uncomfortable... and then we learn the Kraals plan. I can't think of another TV episode, in or out of Who, that essentially presses the self-destruct button like the Kraal plan does to Android: it's so overthought, so nonsensical, so counterintuitive and so easy to fix. Why Holmes didn't change it is still really strange to me.
In some ways, it's kind of a marvel to behold.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 10:28:51 GMT
The reveal of android Sarah is absolutely terrific, and holds up well. The boggly eyes still freak me out.
The story itself, well, I like the "something wrong in a quiet place" feel but there's too much that's just the Zygon story, only not as good, that it suffers folliwing that up only a year on. And it's quite clear they couldn't get the UNIT regulars they wanted back as the standins are just analogues.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 11:00:51 GMT
Ditto. The cliffhanger's a testament to how good editing can make or break a moment (Letts had a spark for that since Enemy of the World) and I enjoy the training village concept as well (very Danger Man or Mission: Impossible), but there's not quite enough plotting to make up four episodes. Primarily because there isn't really that much prominence given to the guest cast outside of Crayford and Styggron. It's also a rather unfortunate instance of the spoiler title. There's not much mystery as to what's happening since we know from the get-go that it's androids.
I wonder if the story would have benefited from taking "PART TWO", "THREE" and just merging them together into a single episode?
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jul 27, 2019 13:46:38 GMT
As a child perusing the target novelisations in my local bookshop this had far and away the most exciting blurb on the back EVER.
As for the actual tv show itself however, well now ...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2019 21:11:11 GMT
I loved The Android Invasion when I first watched it! It was classic Doctor Who.
Upon growing up I found - like a lot of televised Doctor Who from that era - that it didn't quite hold up and was rather silly in places. However, I still love it!
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Post by number13 on Jul 27, 2019 22:27:20 GMT
The reveal of android Sarah is absolutely terrific, and holds up well. The boggly eyes still freak me out. Agree a terrific idea from Philip Hinchcliffe and it still looks impressive! But it would have been an absolute stunner if we hadn’t known until that point that this mystery is all about androids… |
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Post by number13 on Jul 27, 2019 22:32:27 GMT
Boy, if there was ever a story in this franchise that is the embodiment of 'doesn't stick to landing', this might be it. Starts out really strong, atmospheric, eerie, creepy; the idea of taking familiar faces and making them so completely alien could make for something really uncomfortable... and then we learn the Kraals plan. I can't think of another TV episode, in or out of Who, that essentially presses the self-destruct button like the Kraal plan does to Android: it's so overthought, so nonsensical, so counterintuitive and so easy to fix. Why Holmes didn't change it is still really strange to me.
In some ways, it's kind of a marvel to behold.
The Kraal part of the plot has quite a few obvious holes, for example the plan to use their androids to spread a deadly virus when a much simpler method would have worked. This is especially puzzling as the androids are obviously inspired by the idea of KGB ‘sleeper’ agents and Soviet schemes to weaken the West by stealth, seen in many films and TV shows of the period. It’s a great idea for an infiltration takeover story and I actually like the sheer cheek of the twist when the ‘Kraal curtain’ is lifted, but the ‘virus’ idea makes the androids seem redundant.
Also, Crayford was brainwashed but clearly never washed - or how else would he not have known he has a good eye under his eye-patch, even in months… How much better if he had been revealed to himself as an android so perfect it believed it was human, containing a copy of Crayford’s mind, but nothing more… (Probably not an original idea, but there are elements of many other android and infiltration stories in this one.) Milton Johns is excellent though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2019 6:11:55 GMT
Boy, if there was ever a story in this franchise that is the embodiment of 'doesn't stick to landing', this might be it. Starts out really strong, atmospheric, eerie, creepy; the idea of taking familiar faces and making them so completely alien could make for something really uncomfortable... and then we learn the Kraals plan. I can't think of another TV episode, in or out of Who, that essentially presses the self-destruct button like the Kraal plan does to Android: it's so overthought, so nonsensical, so counterintuitive and so easy to fix. Why Holmes didn't change it is still really strange to me.
In some ways, it's kind of a marvel to behold.
The Kraal part of the plot has quite a few obvious holes, for example the plan to use their androids to spread a deadly virus when a much simpler method would have worked. This is especially puzzling as the androids are obviously inspired by the idea of KGB ‘sleeper’ agents and Soviet schemes to weaken the West by stealth, seen in many films and TV shows of the period. It’s a great idea for an infiltration takeover story and I actually like the sheer cheek of the twist when the ‘Kraal curtain’ is lifted, but the ‘virus’ idea makes the androids seem redundant.
Also, Crayford was brainwashed but clearly never washed - or how else would he not have known he has a good eye under his eye-patch, even in months… How much better if he had been revealed to himself as an android so perfect it believed it was human, containing a copy of Crayford’s mind, but nothing more… (Probably not an original idea, but there are elements of many other android and infiltration stories in this one.) Milton Johns is excellent though.
Yeah, in isolation, the idea to use androids to release a virus makes sense. They won't suffer any ill effects, blend seamlessly into the general population and are more than capable of resisting any effort to interfere with their mission. But... The problem is definitely the question of why they don't just bombard the planet from orbit a la The Dalek Invasion of Earth and send in the androids afterwards. With either the virus or the matter-dissolving bomb used to wipe out the fake village. Actually, if you get rid of the MD bomb/virus altogether... It would've been rather interesting if the village on Oesidon were designed to replace the one on Earth wholesale. Really put the "sham" in Devesham. A quick study would show that these humans are fascinated with their local festivals, whatever one may've heard is simply wild fantasy. The result of too much partying. The Doctor and Sarah's fight on Earth isn't to stop a virus but, when the two are transposed, to keep the human inhabitants alive. The Kraals (well, Chedarki and his fleet) want to parasitise wider humanity, rather than eliminate us outright. A slow invasion. I like that idea with Crayford. Styggron keeps it around because he's interested in how subjugated human beings react under prolonged stress. The astronaut's his "pet experiment" to determine whether we're suitable to be enslaved or are really more trouble than we're worth. He can look under his eyepatch, fine. He has a cataract, so he wears it. Nothing unusual about that... Except when the Doctor pops it in half with his sonic screwdriver like the battery pack on an alarm clock. |
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Post by muckypup on Jul 29, 2019 9:49:11 GMT
Yeah there everywhere....I would rather have an iPhone........hehehe
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 29, 2019 9:59:56 GMT
The Kraal part of the plot has quite a few obvious holes, for example the plan to use their androids to spread a deadly virus when a much simpler method would have worked. This is especially puzzling as the androids are obviously inspired by the idea of KGB ‘sleeper’ agents and Soviet schemes to weaken the West by stealth, seen in many films and TV shows of the period. It’s a great idea for an infiltration takeover story and I actually like the sheer cheek of the twist when the ‘Kraal curtain’ is lifted, but the ‘virus’ idea makes the androids seem redundant.
Also, Crayford was brainwashed but clearly never washed - or how else would he not have known he has a good eye under his eye-patch, even in months… How much better if he had been revealed to himself as an android so perfect it believed it was human, containing a copy of Crayford’s mind, but nothing more… (Probably not an original idea, but there are elements of many other android and infiltration stories in this one.) Milton Johns is excellent though.
Yeah, in isolation, the idea to use androids to release a virus makes sense. They won't suffer any ill effects, blend seamlessly into the general population and are more than capable of resisting any effort to interfere with their mission. But... The problem is definitely the question of why they don't just bombard the planet from orbit a la The Dalek Invasion of Earth and send in the androids afterwards. With either the virus or the matter-dissolving bomb used to wipe out the fake village. Actually, if you get rid of the MD bomb/virus altogether... It would've been rather interesting if the village on Oesidon were designed to replace the one on Earth wholesale. Really put the "sham" in Devesham. A quick study would show that these humans are fascinated with their local festivals, whatever one may've heard is simply wild fantasy. The result of too much partying. The Doctor and Sarah's fight on Earth isn't to stop a virus but, when the two are transposed, to keep the human inhabitants alive. The Kraals (well, Chedarki and his fleet) want to parasitise wider humanity, rather than eliminate us outright. A slow invasion. I like that idea with Crayford. Styggron keeps it around because he's interested in how subjugated human beings react under prolonged stress. The astronaut's his "pet experiment" to determine whether we're suitable to be enslaved or are really more trouble than we're worth. He can look under his eyepatch, fine. He has a cataract, so he wears it. Nothing unusual about that... Except when the Doctor pops it in half with his sonic screwdriver like the battery pack on an alarm clock. I had a thought: if this had been an Adams era story, they likely would've had Tom go on and on about how much Stygron's overthought this. Maybe do some jokes about Krall budgets. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 0:02:22 GMT
Yeah, in isolation, the idea to use androids to release a virus makes sense. They won't suffer any ill effects, blend seamlessly into the general population and are more than capable of resisting any effort to interfere with their mission. But... The problem is definitely the question of why they don't just bombard the planet from orbit a la The Dalek Invasion of Earth and send in the androids afterwards. With either the virus or the matter-dissolving bomb used to wipe out the fake village. Actually, if you get rid of the MD bomb/virus altogether... It would've been rather interesting if the village on Oesidon were designed to replace the one on Earth wholesale. Really put the "sham" in Devesham. A quick study would show that these humans are fascinated with their local festivals, whatever one may've heard is simply wild fantasy. The result of too much partying. The Doctor and Sarah's fight on Earth isn't to stop a virus but, when the two are transposed, to keep the human inhabitants alive. The Kraals (well, Chedarki and his fleet) want to parasitise wider humanity, rather than eliminate us outright. A slow invasion. I like that idea with Crayford. Styggron keeps it around because he's interested in how subjugated human beings react under prolonged stress. The astronaut's his "pet experiment" to determine whether we're suitable to be enslaved or are really more trouble than we're worth. He can look under his eyepatch, fine. He has a cataract, so he wears it. Nothing unusual about that... Except when the Doctor pops it in half with his sonic screwdriver like the battery pack on an alarm clock. I had a thought: if this had been an Adams era story, they likely would've had Tom go on and on about how much Stygron's overthought this. Maybe do some jokes about Krall budgets. That and the Doctor maybe having a genuine attempt at life coaching Styggron.  |
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 31, 2019 6:23:53 GMT
Even though the plot is similar to Terror Of The Zygons, The Android Invasion is a fast paced exciting four parter with Tom & Liz on great form together.
And i always laugh at "is that finger loaded" line.
Easily a 4/5.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Jul 31, 2019 6:42:38 GMT
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