|
Post by inchmix on Aug 10, 2019 10:31:11 GMT
I agree here. And lots of good points made here in both camps.
For me, crossover's are great when they are a rare treat. It's too common now
Remember, (without completely spoiling for those who haven't heard it), in the Gallifrey range, when there was a crossover with the Benny range. It was so only for a few secs and So Wow! It was very effective.
After listening to that final episode of Legacy Of Time (which was great!), that big finish excitement is fading for me. How can it be ever topped? It dilutes future crossovers, especially if they are happening all the time now Im glad they have kept Torchwood and Jack Harkness away from DW crossover's. If they ever do crossover, it should be as a rarity
The non DW ranges are appealing to me more than DW ranges. eg Star Cops, B7, Survivors, BF Originals as they stand on its own
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 13:11:36 GMT
I agree here. And lots of good points made here in both camps. For me, crossover's are great when they are a rare treat. It's too common now Remember, (without completely spoiling for those who haven't heard it), in the Gallifrey range, when there was a crossover with the Benny range. It was so only for a few secs and So Wow! It was very effective. After listening to that final episode of Legacy Of Time (which was great!), that big finish excitement is fading for me. How can it be ever topped? It dilutes future crossovers, especially if they are happening all the time now Im glad they have kept Torchwood and Jack Harkness away from DW crossover's. If they ever do crossover, it should be as a rarity The non DW ranges are appealing to me more than DW ranges. eg Star Cops, B7, Survivors, BF Originals as they stand on its own I had that impression of a kind of burn out with all the ranges overlapping a year back and all it took was to stop buying and listening for a few months and i cam back refreshed. With something i tended to listen on a daily basis to something every two weeks and was able to come back enthusiastic again Torchwood-never heard of it π€ͺππ
|
|
|
Post by number13 on Aug 10, 2019 13:19:59 GMT
Yes, probably. But does that mean I'm not interested in hearing them? No, probably! I guess it's very personal; there are 'X meets Y' stories and cross-overs each of us would like to see and others we couldn't care less about, so whether there are 'too many' depends on which ones BF decide to do. For example: I would love to hear the Third Doctor and Jo in an adventure with the other Third Doctor and Benny - I know I've mentioned this before but if I keep saying it, well, you never know... It's not a new question: I'm also a fan of the 1930s/40s 'Universal' horror movies, they began with genre-defining classics like 'Dracula', 'Frankenstein' and 'The Mummy', then made sequels like 'The Bride of Frankenstein' (one of those sequels which may be even better than the original), then moved into monster meet-ups like 'The House of Frankenstein' and 'The House of Dracula' (which are well down from the heights but I still enjoy them.) And then they made 'Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein'. It's a comedy/horror crossover for three famous Universal monsters and a comedy double-act, a commercial cross-over - and I think it works so well, fun and respectful of the original characters, a classic in its own right. (And yes I know some people dislike it, but this is all 'imo'.)
So if River, Benny and Charley want to team up with Iris for 'Trans-Temporal Adventuresses Vol 1: The Curse of the Panda's Paw' and throw in some musical numbers along the way, why not? It's up to us to buy it, or not. (And I would buy that set in nanoseconds by the way BF ) Great to know you are also a fan of the old Universal films! The ones you mention, House of Frankenstein/Dracula and of course the inevitable meeting with Abbott and Costello were great, but also proved to be the end of the line for that particular line of monsters (how I'd love to have seen a Frankenstein film that exploited Glenn Strange's talents more - he was a great Monster, but I digress). One of the reasons I see given in interviews and articles is, 'after they'd all teamed up, where else was for them to go?' And I think this is valid. The meet-ups were more financially successful than a further non-team-up would have been, and so to continue after that wouldn't really have been viable for Universal.
Whilst I wouldn't say that BF's many cross-overs were an example of them running out of steam or ideas, it does seem to smack of 'let's team Jo up with The 10th Doctor' because we can. My personal preference is that the story should come first, that there should be a dramatically interesting means for them to meet, rather than having the meeting itself being the 'tag'.
But like you say in your post, and I said in mine, it's up to us to buy it, and if the sales are healthy, then that's a sign people are enjoying them. Which is all good. But it does make you wonder if they will then feel the need to 'top' the latest meet-up with something else. Perhaps the recent Legacy of Time is the ultimate example of that (so far)?
Of course, what Universal did next was to have Abbott and Costello Meet Just About Everyone... more cross-overs!
I guess the difference with Who is that there were only a few 'big' cinema monsters and limited possible locations whereas the Who back catalogue of monsters is huge and they have all of Space and Time to play with, so in theory the number of potential meet-ups and scenarios is infinite!
But yes, if characters are going to meet there should ideally be a good reason for it - though I have no objection sometimes if the "good reason" is just 'to have fun'; Muse of Fire was a wonderful end to the MR for 2018.
If I wanted to be cynical, it might be that someone has twigged that a meet-up story is a great way to get people to buy a box set and start following that range. It works, sometimes. I started following the 'Gallifrey:Time War' sets mainly because there was an appearance of the War Master in Vol 1. But as it turned out, I enjoyed Vol 2 far more because it had an involving storyline which spans the whole set, and it was focused on Romana and Narvin and Rassilon. Partly because of this and much as I like the Valeyard, I'm not going to get into the Time War sets just because he's turned up for a story in Vol 3.
The one character I would give an unlimited free pass on 'meet ups' to is River Song. Crossing timelines with the Doctor's lives is her m.o., it's what she was created for both in-Universe and in real world terms. (As lidar2 said above.) As long as they can find original (original within her range I mean) things for her to do, I don't mind how many meetings and near-misses she has, with not a hair out of place. She does it mostly for fun imo and who am I to argue with the Doctor's wife?
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,075
|
Post by mbt66 on Aug 10, 2019 14:49:56 GMT
Well in regards UNIT the only sets I have bought are...
CYBER-REALITY The War Master and the Cybermen
INCURSIONS River Song
I think that answers why Cross-Overs work.
If they had bought Lady Christina back in a UNIT boxset I would have bought that, but as they chose to put her in her own set with a character from UNIT I didnβt.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 16:25:05 GMT
Yes, probably. But does that mean I'm not interested in hearing them? No, probably! I guess it's very personal; there are 'X meets Y' stories and cross-overs each of us would like to see and others we couldn't care less about, so whether there are 'too many' depends on which ones BF decide to do. For example: I would love to hear the Third Doctor and Jo in an adventure with the other Third Doctor and Benny - I know I've mentioned this before but if I keep saying it, well, you never know... It's not a new question: I'm also a fan of the 1930s/40s 'Universal' horror movies, they began with genre-defining classics like 'Dracula', 'Frankenstein' and 'The Mummy', then made sequels like 'The Bride of Frankenstein' (one of those sequels which may be even better than the original), then moved into monster meet-ups like 'The House of Frankenstein' and 'The House of Dracula' (which are well down from the heights but I still enjoy them.) And then they made 'Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein'. It's a comedy/horror crossover for three famous Universal monsters and a comedy double-act, a commercial cross-over - and I think it works so well, fun and respectful of the original characters, a classic in its own right. (And yes I know some people dislike it, but this is all 'imo'.)
So if River, Benny and Charley want to team up with Iris for 'Trans-Temporal Adventuresses Vol 1: The Curse of the Panda's Paw' and throw in some musical numbers along the way, why not? It's up to us to buy it, or not. (And I would buy that set in nanoseconds by the way BF ) Thinking of the Universal pictures 'mash-ups' brings to mind also the DC/Marvel universe films of late such as Batman vs Superman. Its like the Hollywood executive of old, Cigar in mouth, confidently thinking up a pitch that the audience will apparently lap up. Lew Grade was the nearest we had in the UK and look at the formulaic but catchy concepts he green lit at ITC. With Big Finish it seems like Nick is sat behing a big desk, and whenever fresh ideas are short, barks out in a faux noo york accent, a new mash-up that will be big stuff. Its infected the MR too, what with The Sixth Doctor regularly meeting larger than life historical figures, just as he did with George Stephenson and HG Wells back in the day. So now its a formula of a sort. Just recently he has met Isambard Kingdom Brunel and now Harry Houdini. I await his pairing up with PT Barnum for a musical follow up to The Pirates, or a return to the land of fiction to spar with Flashman. Colin would have been geat opposite Rik Mayall come to think of it... The point is, not a criticsm as the resulting drama need not be any less good than original pitches, but it just seems that the spark of an idea of late seems to be springing from a 'hey! what if..?' scenario more often than in the past.
|
|
|
Post by inchmix on Aug 11, 2019 19:36:44 GMT
I had that impression of a kind of burn out with all the ranges overlapping a year back and all it took was to stop buying and listening for a few months and i cam back refreshed. With something i tended to listen on a daily basis to something every two weeks and was able to come back enthusiastic again Torchwood-never heard of it π€ͺππ This is a good idea. I will take a break from big finish for awhile.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2019 19:37:26 GMT
I had that impression of a kind of burn out with all the ranges overlapping a year back and all it took was to stop buying and listening for a few months and i cam back refreshed. With something i tended to listen on a daily basis to something every two weeks and was able to come back enthusiastic again Torchwood-never heard of it π€ͺππ This is a good idea. I will take a break from big finish for awhile.Β It does help Mate itβs not treachery to do it lolπ
|
|
|
Post by BHTvsTFC on Aug 17, 2019 6:21:58 GMT
I suffer from BF burn out all the time, especially where DW is concerned. I prefer fresh story telling to 'x meets y' stories. It sometimes feels a bit 'incestuous' in the same way soap opera often does with it's mixing and matching the same characters. For me it began with the 45th Anniversary year and The Key2Time and quickly began to feel like overkill, although returning elements have featured in the expanded universe since forever, and the expanded universes of many other shows are far more devoted to regurgitating the past than any of DW's. The recent X Files 'Cold Cases' was unbearable in this regard.
That said the story is the thing and sometimes it pays off - the recent Lies in Ruins was brilliant for example, but when you get a weak story I feel shoehorning the returning elements in to little effect are often to blame - the recent Relative Time was another good example - Gorgia is Davison's real life daughter - we get it, now give us a story!!! Cross overs, sadly, are likely to be around as long as there is an expanded universe and we have Psychic Circus, Ravenous 4, and Daughter of the Gods on the way amongst others.
Taking a break does help when the ranges start to get a bit samey which is unavoidable after the hundreds of releases we have had. The trick is to come to them when you feel more willing to accept those repetitive elements, and when you may find yourself surprised by the results that come with fresh ears.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 12:35:26 GMT
For me, yes. Too many crossovers as well as BF filling the gaps where it may be best to leave to the imagination. My main crossover bugbear is with the River Song series, too many crossovers with other Doctors rather than some exciting adventures like in the 1st boxset. Probably why I don't buy this range anymore. My main bugbear is too much River Song in everything else !
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 13:54:56 GMT
For me, yes. Too many crossovers as well as BF filling the gaps where it may be best to leave to the imagination. My main crossover bugbear is with the River Song series, too many crossovers with other Doctors rather than some exciting adventures like in the 1st boxset. Probably why I don't buy this range anymore. My main bugbear is too much River Song in everything else ! Oh stop yir whingeing π
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 14:01:35 GMT
I did feel that way a while back and took a total breather from the whole Doctor Who Range and threw myself into Dark Shadows and Pathfinders and it was with a sense of fun I returned to Who every time I blinked there was a new spin off Jenny,Class you name it we had it lol...and yes it can irritate and you feel overwhelmed .But it isnβt that they arenβt good or unoriginal itβs just they happens to have their release dates so close together hahah
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 14:02:32 GMT
I had that impression of a kind of burn out with all the ranges overlapping a year back and all it took was to stop buying and listening for a few months and i cam back refreshed. With something i tended to listen on a daily basis to something every two weeks and was able to come back enthusiastic again Torchwood-never heard of it π€ͺππ This is a good idea. I will take a break from big finish for awhile. And did you?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 14:26:49 GMT
My main bugbear is too much River Song in everything else ! Oh stop yir whingeing π Are you posting that because you think I can do something about it, or are you posting it just for the sake of complaining?
|
|
|
Post by polly on Aug 29, 2019 21:04:38 GMT
I think ideally each show should have its own identity and its own unique premise to fulfill, otherwise what's the point? You know, like if River or UNIT or whoever relies on imported elements so much that they're essentially Doctor Who adventures with a different cast, then they need to rethink things.
Like, between say, UNIT, Counter-Measures, and Torchwood, how do you keep things unique?
That's my real concern with the myriad spinoffs. Gallifrey and Dalek Empire used Doctor Who continuity but they gave you unique series like nothing else on offer. I don't know how well newer spinoffs do that.
So yeah, cross over and import continuity all you like, but it had better be dealt with in a way the parent show couldn't do.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 10:52:30 GMT
I think ideally each show should have its own identity and its own unique premise to fulfill, otherwise what's the point? You know, like if River or UNIT or whoever relies on imported elements so much that they're essentially Doctor Who adventures with a different cast, then they need to rethink things. Like, between say, UNIT, Counter-Measures, and Torchwood, how do you keep things unique? That's my real concern with the myriad spinoffs. Gallifrey and Dalek Empire used Doctor Who continuity but they gave you unique series like nothing else on offer. I don't know how well newer spinoffs do that. So yeah, cross over and import continuity all you like, but it had better be dealt with in a way the parent show couldn't do. If we could erase the timeline that Torchwood exists in ππ
|
|
|
Post by polly on Sept 4, 2019 19:04:30 GMT
If we could erase the timeline that Torchwood exists in ππ Aw, I like Torchwood Seems like the people who don't like it really don't like it. To each their own.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:11:26 GMT
If we could erase the timeline that Torchwood exists in ππ Aw, I like Torchwood Seems like the people who don't like it really don't like it. To each their own. Its a running gag with me... i just did not enjoy the show at all it was a case of too many secret government and outside the government agencies all roughly in the same time period hence also the reason i cannot enjoy the Paternoster gang we already had my personal faves Jago and Litefoot the area just became overcrowded thats all I love Eve Myles and John Barrowman as actors but i just cannot enjoy the show though TUIGIRL is trying her best to persuade me to cave in because i love Katy Manning as Jo Grant...so you never know but i dont miss it as theres so much stuff i want to hear that i know i will enjoy....so what was that show you mentioned again?πππ
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Sept 4, 2019 19:47:30 GMT
Aw, I like Torchwood Seems like the people who don't like it really don't like it. To each their own. Its a running gag with me... i just did not enjoy the show at all it was a case of too many secret government and outside the government agencies all roughly in the same time period hence also the reason i cannot enjoy the Paternoster gang we already had my personal faves Jago and Litefoot the area just became overcrowded thats all I love Eve Myles and John Barrowman as actors but i just cannot enjoy the show though TUIGIRL is trying her best to persuade me to cave in because i love Katy Manning as Jo Grant...so you never know but i dont miss it as theres so much stuff i want to hear that i know i will enjoy....so what was that show you mentioned again?πππ I did not say you should buy into the range. I just said you will really enjoy the Green Life. Maybe because it hardly is what you would consider proper Torchwood. It stands pretty much on its own as a sequel to the Green Death.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2019 19:49:25 GMT
Its a running gag with me... i just did not enjoy the show at all it was a case of too many secret government and outside the government agencies all roughly in the same time period hence also the reason i cannot enjoy the Paternoster gang we already had my personal faves Jago and Litefoot the area just became overcrowded thats all I love Eve Myles and John Barrowman as actors but i just cannot enjoy the show though TUIGIRL is trying her best to persuade me to cave in because i love Katy Manning as Jo Grant...so you never know but i dont miss it as theres so much stuff i want to hear that i know i will enjoy....so what was that show you mentioned again?πππ I did not say you should buy into the range. I just said you will really enjoy the Green Life. Maybe because it hardly is what you would consider proper Torchwood. It stands pretty much on its own as a sequel to the Green Death. And my finger hovers over the button occasionally of ADD to basket but I must not succum to temptation I must not succumbπ€ͺπ€ͺπ€ͺπ€ͺπππ
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Sept 4, 2019 19:52:39 GMT
I did not say you should buy into the range. I just said you will really enjoy the Green Life. Maybe because it hardly is what you would consider proper Torchwood. It stands pretty much on its own as a sequel to the Green Death. And my finger hovers over the button occasionally of ADD to basket but I must not succum to temptation I must not succumbπ€ͺπ€ͺπ€ͺπ€ͺπππ Lets see how that goes. As I Said you need not tell anyone and just enjoy in silence.
|
|