mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Aug 11, 2019 13:15:15 GMT
It appears that Big Finish do not have a working relationship with Steven Moffat or at least not like they do with Russell T Davies.
Whenever they use one of his creations Big Finish will often quote RTD or state that he has given his blessing or indeed offered his advice. Which is always lovely to hear or read.
However there was no mention of Steven Moffat when they launched The Paternoster Gang series or when they have used one of his creations like the Weeping Angels (I really hope we get a story with both of those! The Angels of Islington Cemetery)
When Big Finish bought back Lady Christina they had words from Russell, but when they bought us the wonderful Moffat creation of Missy there was no such words from Steven. In fact I am not sure if he even got a mention.
Steven Moffat was almost involved at the very beginning with Big Finish and he has made mention of the company when he was show runner, saying that he was leaving gaps for Big Finish to fill.
So is it just because Big Finish don’t have either of the Doctors from his era on board that we don’t have any quotes from him? Is he currently distancing himself from Doctor Who? Or is there another reason?
I still have the hope that he will write for the Eighth Doctor on audio some day. Something he seemed to want to do all those years ago when Big Finish started.
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Post by Digi on Aug 11, 2019 13:42:28 GMT
Probably coincidental. Since finishing Doctor Who, he's done a season of Sherlock and his Dracula adaptation, meanwhile Big Finish hasn't done a great deal with the Eleventh Doctor era simply due to actor unavailability/unwillingness to return to their roles.
I'd be all over a Stephen Moffat Presents release like the Hinchcliffe ones, but realistically it's only been a year and a half since his final Who TV episode aired. Even if he wasn't otherwise busy, I wouldn't expect him (or anyone else) to return to the franchise this soon.
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Post by cwm on Aug 11, 2019 13:50:50 GMT
Steven has had some input - it was he who suggested River meeting classic Doctors, although it certainly doesn't seem like he's had anything like a substantial a role as RTD, who basically came up with the idea for the Rose spin-off and gave notes on the storylines for each episode.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 14:21:30 GMT
Different horses for different courses, I'd say. RTD likes to keep an eye on what is happening with the direction in which Big Finish take his characters. Steven Moffat is equally happy to let BF use them, and trusts them to do a good job. That's not to say Steven doesn't keep an eye on his characters, or that Russell doesn't trust BF. I'm happy - very happy, in fact - that both these former show-runners have such a close professional relationship with a company who, more often than not, take their wonderful characters in fascinating new directions beyond their televisual lives. To quote whoever it is that says such things, it's all good.
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 11, 2019 14:28:01 GMT
I think Big Finish’s use of elements from the RTD and Moffat eras have been distinctly different.
UNIT, River Song and The Paternoster Gang are recurring elements from the show, which could have all led to their own spin-off at the time. The War Doctor seems to be the most involved, but I think that’s a special licence from BBC Studios more than anything. Though I seem to recall they got permission from Moffat too?
The RTD era output from Big Finish seems to stretch credibility a bit more, and I think they feel obliged to consult him about how it fits with the continuity he set up. An extra adventure for Adam, spin-offs for Christina and Jenny and extra stuff with Jackie, Sylvia and the War Master. The Rose set was initially based on RTD’s own Earth Defence and Donna’s upcoming set is slot bang in the middle of Series 4, following quite a big shock to her character.
The “stretch credibility” comment isn’t a criticism, but it highlights the difference between the two showrunners. RTD is more tight knit, whereas Moffat has self imposed Big Finish gaps. I think Big Finish’s approach with them both mirrors that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 14:40:14 GMT
I don't really buy the "BF gaps" thing - it's a cute line but I don't think he made any real changes to any particularly important plots just on the off chance BF could expand on something one day. I think it does tend to get read into a bit too much.
And, yeah, Moffat was involved Day 1 on Big Finish, at the original meeting, the one where Paul Cornell was quite rude to Nick, leaving because he only wanted to do "new" Doctor Who moving the story post-TVM. When it became clear the plan was writing for past Docs and McGann wasn't available (yet), he was out.
And lest we forget the entire reason BF is even called Big Finish is because Jason named it after the ep of that name from Moff's classic Press Gang.
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 11, 2019 15:10:04 GMT
I don't really buy the "BF gaps" thing - it's a cute line but I don't think he made any real changes to any particularly important plots just on the off chance BF could expand on something one day. I think it does tend to get read into a bit too much. To be honest, I meant it more in the sense that the Big Finish spin-offs that have stemmed from his era are recurring characters. They’re established and have clear gaps and history to explore between their Doctor Who appearances. His “Big Finish gaps” comment seems more general, as in they’re for anyone to expand on, and he doesn’t seem them particularly important enough to show on screen. Whether it be Big Finish, DWM, Titan, BBC Books or even fans and their own fiction.
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Post by project37 on Aug 11, 2019 15:57:15 GMT
Since it's all just armchair speculation anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that perhaps Moffat just wanted some time (and space) away from Doctor Who after being professionally immersed in it for so many years. It could be as simple as having enough trust in both BF as professionals and the license agreement terms/approval process to know that they couldn't mess anything up as far as the integrity of his contributions to DW are concerned.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Aug 11, 2019 18:58:05 GMT
Every relationship is different and just because we don't see or hear Moffat's name alongside those parts of Who that he was responsible for creating does not mean he isn't consulted or isn't in full support of. I fail to see the point of this thread.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 19:09:15 GMT
What a strange thread, pure conjecture.
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Post by cwm on Aug 11, 2019 19:34:38 GMT
What a strange thread, pure conjecture. I don't think it's pure conjecture. Whenever there's an article in Vortex about an RTD-era release (such as Rose Tyler, Lady Christina or the 10DAs) RTD will usually be mentioned as having some input, which isn't the case for Moffat-era releases.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 20:29:30 GMT
What a strange thread, pure conjecture. I don't think it's pure conjecture. Whenever there's an article in Vortex about an RTD-era release (such as Rose Tyler, Lady Christina or the 10DAs) RTD will usually be mentioned as having some input, which isn't the case for Moffat-era releases. It might be as simple as RTD just has time to give BF a bit of 'input' and Steven Moffat doesn't?
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Post by Hieronymus on Aug 11, 2019 21:49:47 GMT
I'm inclined to believe (based on the style of interviews they give) that RTD is simply more effusive, vocal, and quick to praise in spontaneous conversation. Moffat seems more of a craftsman, who chews over his thoughts and thinks longer before expressing his ideas, and is very deliberate in his speech.
Based on that alone, RTD seems more likely to fashion a quick sound bite in conversation than Moffat. In other words, I think it comes down to individual differences in the way they speak in an interview, more than anything.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Aug 11, 2019 22:39:51 GMT
Probably coincidental. Since finishing Doctor Who, he's done a season of Sherlock and his Dracula adaptation, meanwhile Big Finish hasn't done a great deal with the Eleventh Doctor era simply due to actor unavailability/unwillingness to return to their roles. I'd be all over a Stephen Moffat Presents release like the Hinchcliffe ones, but realistically it's only been a year and a half since his final Who TV episode aired. Even if he wasn't otherwise busy, I wouldn't expect him (or anyone else) to return to the franchise this soon. I recall an interview with Matt Smith, he heavily implied his manager answered for him "slightly out of turn", and he didn't even know about the offer until after the fact. He has said he is interested though. Just trying to fit in with his schedule would be the main thing .
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Post by glutamodo on Aug 11, 2019 22:47:21 GMT
I've started to wonder if Moffat wants to put DW behind him. He has no animosity, love or especial interest in BF.
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Post by Star Platinum on Aug 11, 2019 23:17:03 GMT
I've started to wonder if Moffat wants to put DW behind him. He has no animosity, love or especial interest in BF. I think this is the closest to the truth in this thread so far. The man spent seven years working on it, he's paid his dues. While I wouldn't rule out a return to DW as a whole, I don't think it will be several years out in the future. (Keep in mind, Davies was very quiet on DW/Torchwood in the years after his tenure) I expect he'll come back, but for now, I'm sure he just wants to enjoy the series as a viewer for the most part. Also, I think it's important to look at the roles the two had to the series. While both were show runners, Davies was the savior. Davies brought the show back from cancellation. He re-invented the show for a modern era. While Moffat brought the show to international fame, Davies brought the show back from the almost aquaman like reputation that it had acquired after it had been cancelled. I like to think that simply attaching Davies name in small tertiary aspects (adapting his novel, his blessing on projects, writing that bit at the end of aliens among us) they help give those projects credibility and I wouldn't be surprised if that fact alone helped sell some copies.
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Post by Ela on Aug 11, 2019 23:35:52 GMT
I don't remember RTD being as involved with BF releases right after he stepped down as show runner as he seems to be recently, beyond BF getting permission to use some of the characters and ideas from his era.
This is a non-issue.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 12, 2019 3:35:53 GMT
Probably coincidental. Since finishing Doctor Who, he's done a season of Sherlock and his Dracula adaptation, meanwhile Big Finish hasn't done a great deal with the Eleventh Doctor era simply due to actor unavailability/unwillingness to return to their roles. I'd be all over a Stephen Moffat Presents release like the Hinchcliffe ones, but realistically it's only been a year and a half since his final Who TV episode aired. Even if he wasn't otherwise busy, I wouldn't expect him (or anyone else) to return to the franchise this soon. I recall an interview with Matt Smith, he heavily implied his manager answered for him "slightly out of turn", and he didn't even know about the offer until after the fact. He has said he is interested though. Just trying to fit in with his schedule would be the main thing . To the extent I recall various interview/panels, he has seemed more receptive to the idea as time goes on. Maybe that's just me being hopeful, but I really want to see how BF writes for him.
I'm not rehashing my gripes/whining about the latter parts of his time (which I don't blame him for), but man, if they take S5 Smith and go that route I'll be happy as anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 8:05:11 GMT
I don't think it's pure conjecture. Whenever there's an article in Vortex about an RTD-era release (such as Rose Tyler, Lady Christina or the 10DAs) RTD will usually be mentioned as having some input, which isn't the case for Moffat-era releases. It might be as simple as RTD just has time to give BF a bit of 'input' and Steven Moffat doesn't? Yep. Or he's just not interested. There does seem to be a belief from some people that once someone has worked on Dr Who they will be involved forever & if not it is some kind of snub. They might just want to do other things.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Aug 12, 2019 8:32:47 GMT
To me it's a no-brainer - if Moffatt was anti-BF in any way he simply wouldn't give them permission to use his creations in the first place (I can't imagine he needs the money form BF or that it would be that much)
This whole thread rests on the premise that RTD's heavy involvement is the norm and Moffatt's comparative lack of involvement is the exception. You could flip that and say Moffatt's stance is the norm and RTD is the exception - a control freak who can't or won't let go of his creations. Now I'm not saying that, I'm just playing devil's advocate, but it's a valid interpretation of what we know. After all, we have read more than once in Vortex how BF comes up with a new storyline and RTD says "Yes, lovely, but ... do this instead". I wonder what the consequence would be if BF said "Thanks, but no thanks RTD, we like our own storyline and we'll stick with that"?
A lot of the original creators of BF franchise's are dead, but off the top of my head, as far as we know, Chris Boucher's approach to Star Cops and Kaldor is more like Moffatt's than RTD's as was the Bakers' approach to the Rani. Stephen Wyatt writing the Greatest Show sequel/prequel is the very much the exception, as is Philip Martin and Sil, the vast majority of BF's sequels/prequels have been done by another writer even when the original writer is still alive.
Plus Moffatt is still relatively fresh from DW, whereas RTD had been out of a good few years, maybe Moffatt is happy to take a back seat.
(ps - What is Moffatt's middle name? - it would be much easier to type this if we had a 3 letter acronym for him!)
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