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Post by tuigirl on Sept 15, 2019 16:59:39 GMT
Right. A question for the experts. I still do not get this and maybe I am just dumb, or maybe it never got explained. But I have finally gotten over my shyness to ask. I honestly do not understand the thing about the Hand of Omega. How did the Doctor get it? If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised? Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in? How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment? How does the story fit together? For the uninitiated like me, the appearance of the device came out of nowhere and it does not fit together for me. Remember, I came out of NuWho and only started getting into the earlier details. Anyone here understood it or has a theory?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 17:22:36 GMT
Right. A question for the experts. I still do not get this and maybe I am just dumb, or maybe it never got explained. But I have finally gotten over my shyness to ask. I honestly do not understand the thing about the Hand of Omega. How did the Doctor get it? If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised? Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in? How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment? How does the story fit together? For the uninitiated like me, the appearance of the device came out of nowhere and it does not fit together for me. Remember, I came out of NuWho and only started getting into the earlier details. Anyone here understood it or has a theory? I know BF continue it as the casket is mentioned i think in the Companion Chronicle -The Beginning. It was a stellar manipulator created by Rassilon I dont think i ever found out or read why the doctor had it or why he took it with him in the first place. I am no expert though so i eagerly await further explanations
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Post by fitzoliverj on Sept 15, 2019 17:44:12 GMT
In the novel "Lungbarrow" {Spoiler} it escapes from where it's stored and starts hanging round the Omega memorial. Then it turns up on the Doctor's doorstep, and when he decides to leave Gallifrey it goes with him, and forces the TARDIS back to ancient Gallifrey to rescue the Other's granddaughter. As the Doctor looks just like him, she accepts him as her grandfather.
However, many people will say "Lungbarrow" doesn't count, and even if it does, a lot of what we're told in it about such things are not necessarily from a reliable source {Spoiler} It's memories dragged out of the Doctor, and (if you recall) this is the guy that convinced a mind-reading machine that his relatives are all walruses.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 15, 2019 19:47:45 GMT
In the novel "Lungbarrow" {Spoiler} it escapes from where it's stored and starts hanging round the Omega memorial. Then it turns up on the Doctor's doorstep, and when he decides to leave Gallifrey it goes with him, and forces the TARDIS back to ancient Gallifrey to rescue the Other's granddaughter. As the Doctor looks just like him, she accepts him as her grandfather.
However, many people will say "Lungbarrow" doesn't count, and even if it does, a lot of what we're told in it about such things are not necessarily from a reliable source {Spoiler} It's memories dragged out of the Doctor, and (if you recall) this is the guy that convinced a mind-reading machine that his relatives are all walruses. Okay... hmm... not sure if that clears it up, then.
I admit never read Lungbarrow... I think that is the novel with the notorious "Looms"? I have never been a fan of that idea...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 20:05:23 GMT
In the novel "Lungbarrow" {Spoiler} it escapes from where it's stored and starts hanging round the Omega memorial. Then it turns up on the Doctor's doorstep, and when he decides to leave Gallifrey it goes with him, and forces the TARDIS back to ancient Gallifrey to rescue the Other's granddaughter. As the Doctor looks just like him, she accepts him as her grandfather.
However, many people will say "Lungbarrow" doesn't count, and even if it does, a lot of what we're told in it about such things are not necessarily from a reliable source {Spoiler} It's memories dragged out of the Doctor, and (if you recall) this is the guy that convinced a mind-reading machine that his relatives are all walruses. Okay... hmm... not sure if that clears it up, then.
I admit never read Lungbarrow... I think that is the novel with the notorious "Looms"? I have never been a fan of that idea...
I loved. The idea of Looms am still not a fan of TimeLords changing gender but just accept it now. i read a bit online i may have to revisit Omega Audio as I believe the hand is mentioned there too
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 20:16:27 GMT
In the novel "Lungbarrow" {Spoiler} it escapes from where it's stored and starts hanging round the Omega memorial. Then it turns up on the Doctor's doorstep, and when he decides to leave Gallifrey it goes with him, and forces the TARDIS back to ancient Gallifrey to rescue the Other's granddaughter. As the Doctor looks just like him, she accepts him as her grandfather.
However, many people will say "Lungbarrow" doesn't count, and even if it does, a lot of what we're told in it about such things are not necessarily from a reliable source {Spoiler} It's memories dragged out of the Doctor, and (if you recall) this is the guy that convinced a mind-reading machine that his relatives are all walruses. Is Lungbarrow adaptable?i only read an e pdf of it when i was online once never really got a feel for it as back then i basically considered only the TV show as canon.
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Post by number13 on Sept 16, 2019 1:06:26 GMT
In the novel "Lungbarrow" {Spoiler} it escapes from where it's stored and starts hanging round the Omega memorial. Then it turns up on the Doctor's doorstep, and when he decides to leave Gallifrey it goes with him, and forces the TARDIS back to ancient Gallifrey to rescue the Other's granddaughter. As the Doctor looks just like him, she accepts him as her grandfather.
However, many people will say "Lungbarrow" doesn't count, and even if it does, a lot of what we're told in it about such things are not necessarily from a reliable source {Spoiler} It's memories dragged out of the Doctor, and (if you recall) this is the guy that convinced a mind-reading machine that his relatives are all walruses. And similarly, that he travelled to the Space Museum on Xeros by penny-farthing bicycle...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 2:09:57 GMT
Right. A question for the experts. I still do not get this and maybe I am just dumb, or maybe it never got explained. But I have finally gotten over my shyness to ask. I honestly do not understand the thing about the Hand of Omega. How did the Doctor get it? If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised? Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in? How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment? How does the story fit together? For the uninitiated like me, the appearance of the device came out of nowhere and it does not fit together for me. Remember, I came out of NuWho and only started getting into the earlier details. Anyone here understood it or has a theory? In order: {Spoiler} How did the Doctor get it?- Yep, it's as fitzoliverj and @causality say, it found him on Gallifrey. If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised?
- The Hand of Omega is similar to the Luggage that follows Rincewind around in the Discworld novels. It's got a pseudo-sentience all of its own. Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in?
- Boredom was definitely a huge part of it, but it was being framed for murder that was the catalyst. How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment?- As a stellar manipulator, it's got a few tricks of its own. What's messing with a few guards when you can blow up a sun? How does the story fit together?- That's probably the most complicated part. The Hand was bequeathed to one of Gallifrey's triumvirate after Omega's death. In the old days, there was Rassilon, Omega and a figure now only referred to as the Other. The reason why everything is so Rassilon-focussed is because the Other threw himself into their breeding engines, the Looms, as a final act of rebellion. A little chaos for Rassilon's regime. Part of that biodata, that temporal DNA, ended up in the Doctor. The Hand recognised its former owner through those remnants. We've done a bit of pondering and discovered that the idea of looms isn't mutually exclusive to the Doctor having parents. We've actually got a few theories on the Divergent Wordsmiths website about how both can be possible and where the Hand fits in with his departure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 5:32:25 GMT
Right. A question for the experts. I still do not get this and maybe I am just dumb, or maybe it never got explained. But I have finally gotten over my shyness to ask. I honestly do not understand the thing about the Hand of Omega. How did the Doctor get it? If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised? Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in? How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment? How does the story fit together? For the uninitiated like me, the appearance of the device came out of nowhere and it does not fit together for me. Remember, I came out of NuWho and only started getting into the earlier details. Anyone here understood it or has a theory? In order: {Spoiler} How did the Doctor get it?- Yep, it's as fitzoliverj and @causality say, it found him on Gallifrey. If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised?
- The Hand of Omega is similar to the Luggage that follows Rincewind around in the Discworld novels. It's got a pseudo-sentience all of its own. Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in?
- Boredom was definitely a huge part of it, but it was being framed for murder that was the catalyst. How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment?- As a stellar manipulator, it's got a few tricks of its own. What's messing with a few guards when you can blow up a sun? How does the story fit together?- That's probably the most complicated part. The Hand was bequeathed to one of Gallifrey's triumvirate after Omega's death. In the old days, there was Rassilon, Omega and a figure now only referred to as the Other. The reason why everything is so Rassilon-focussed is because the Other threw himself into their breeding engines, the Looms, as a final act of rebellion. A little chaos for Rassilon's regime. Part of that biodata, that temporal DNA, ended up in the Doctor. The Hand recognised its former owner through those remnants. We've done a bit of pondering and discovered that the idea of looms isn't mutually exclusive to the Doctor having parents. We've actually got a few theories on the Divergent Wordsmiths website about how both can be possible and where the Hand fits in with his departure. The Looms was a theory very other worldly and i guess i could imagine them in their grandeur and purpose.The weaver and the weaved. That theDoctor wasn’t weaved i just took from Doctor Who the Movie-he said half human on his mothers side. The gender swapping regenerations means that it was one loom with both DNA sequences one becoming dominant.(the Doctor eventually becoming Female is probably down to the Father being Time Lord and Loomed) Back in his first incarnation this item,for reasons unknown he procures The Hand and i must be honest i thought by the end of remembrance he removed it to keep it out of Time Lord hands given its capabilities and destructive power.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 16, 2019 6:18:03 GMT
Right. A question for the experts. I still do not get this and maybe I am just dumb, or maybe it never got explained. But I have finally gotten over my shyness to ask. I honestly do not understand the thing about the Hand of Omega. How did the Doctor get it? If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised? Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in? How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment? How does the story fit together? For the uninitiated like me, the appearance of the device came out of nowhere and it does not fit together for me. Remember, I came out of NuWho and only started getting into the earlier details. Anyone here understood it or has a theory? In order: {Spoiler} How did the Doctor get it?- Yep, it's as fitzoliverj and @causality say, it found him on Gallifrey. If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised?
- The Hand of Omega is similar to the Luggage that follows Rincewind around in the Discworld novels. It's got a pseudo-sentience all of its own. Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in?
- Boredom was definitely a huge part of it, but it was being framed for murder that was the catalyst. How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment?- As a stellar manipulator, it's got a few tricks of its own. What's messing with a few guards when you can blow up a sun? How does the story fit together?- That's probably the most complicated part. The Hand was bequeathed to one of Gallifrey's triumvirate after Omega's death. In the old days, there was Rassilon, Omega and a figure now only referred to as the Other. The reason why everything is so Rassilon-focussed is because the Other threw himself into their breeding engines, the Looms, as a final act of rebellion. A little chaos for Rassilon's regime. Part of that biodata, that temporal DNA, ended up in the Doctor. The Hand recognised its former owner through those remnants. We've done a bit of pondering and discovered that the idea of looms isn't mutually exclusive to the Doctor having parents. We've actually got a few theories on the Divergent Wordsmiths website about how both can be possible and where the Hand fits in with his departure. Wow thank you. Great way of explaining everything to me! I specially like the example of the hand as the luggage from Pratchett. Love all that sentient technology. I already had some plans of checking out the website, hope I get around to it.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 16, 2019 6:27:20 GMT
In order: {Spoiler} How did the Doctor get it?- Yep, it's as fitzoliverj and @causality say, it found him on Gallifrey. If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised?
- The Hand of Omega is similar to the Luggage that follows Rincewind around in the Discworld novels. It's got a pseudo-sentience all of its Wa Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in?
- Boredom was definitely a huge part of it, but it was being framed for murder that was the catalyst. How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment?- As a stellar manipulator, it's got a few tricks of its own. What's messing with a few guards when you can blow up a sun? How does the story fit together?- That's probably the most complicated part. The Hand was bequeathed to one of Gallifrey's triumvirate after Omega's death. In the old days, there was Rassilon, Omega and a figure now only referred to as the Other. The reason why everything is so Rassilon-focussed is because the Other threw himself into their breeding engines, the Looms, as a final act of rebellion. A little chaos for Rassilon's regime. Part of that biodata, that temporal DNA, ended up in the Doctor. The Hand recognised its former owner through those remnants. We've done a bit of pondering and discovered that the idea of looms isn't mutually exclusive to the Doctor having parents. We've actually got a few theories on the Divergent Wordsmiths website about how both can be possible and where the Hand fits in with his departure. The Looms was a theory very other worldly and i guess i could imagine them in their grandeur and purpose.The weaver and the weaved. That theDoctor wasn’t weaved i just took from Doctor Who the Movie-he said half human on his mothers side. The gender swapping regenerations means that it was one loom with both DNA sequences one becoming dominant.(the Doctor eventually becoming Female is probably down to the Father being Time Lord and Loomed) Back in his first incarnation this item,for reasons unknown he procures The Hand and i must be honest i thought by the end of remembrance he removed it to keep it out of Time Lord hands given its capabilities and destructive power. Haha, my problem with much of the biological Who lore is my training as a scientist in the biological sciences. There is only so far I can suspend my disbelieve. Before it all becomes male cattle droppings. I neither by that „human on the mothers side“ ( do they even have the same DNA structure as we? We cannot even breed with chimps, and they have 99% DNA similarity with humans! ) nor the looms. There is a reason in nature the creator gave us sex ( or if you believe it all happened on its own why it developed on its own) and I just find this artificial life creating just deeply unsettling. Personal thing. The timelord sex change does not have to be genetic. A pet peeve in SciFi-fi lore for me is that all is so ridiculously MAMMAL centered. Again, male cattle droppings. Just like the female Silurians having mammary glands. The are bloody reptiles! Ever seen a turtle with breasts?? I know, TV and breasts sell, but honestly? Same with sex. There are more animals on earth and hopefully in the universe than just mammals. And most of them do NOT have sex chromosomes. Many fish change their sex because they become the dominant animal in a group. In many reptiles the breeding temperature determines sex. What is a huge problem with climate change now. Tuatara in NZ are in big trouble because with warmer temperatures, all the eggs become male. For sci-fi, the aliens, like the timelords, are just too damn close too home. Do none of the writers ever go to the zoo? At least? There are so many ideas to make alien biology alien. By just moving away AN INCH from placental mammals. Rant over.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 6:31:13 GMT
The Looms was a theory very other worldly and i guess i could imagine them in their grandeur and purpose.The weaver and the weaved. That theDoctor wasn’t weaved i just took from Doctor Who the Movie-he said half human on his mothers side. The gender swapping regenerations means that it was one loom with both DNA sequences one becoming dominant.(the Doctor eventually becoming Female is probably down to the Father being Time Lord and Loomed) Back in his first incarnation this item,for reasons unknown he procures The Hand and i must be honest i thought by the end of remembrance he removed it to keep it out of Time Lord hands given its capabilities and destructive power. Haha, my problem with much of the biological Who lore is my training as a scientist in the biological sciences. There is only so far I can suspend my disbelieve. Before it all becomes male cattle droppings. I neither by that „human on the mothers side“ ( do they even have the same DNA structure as we? We cannot even breed with chimps, and they have 99% DNA similarity with humans! ) nor the looms. There is a reason in nature the creator gave us sex ( or if you believe it all happened on its own why it developed on its own) and I just find this artificial life creating just deeply unsettling. Personal thing. The timelord sex change does not have to be genetic. A pet peeve in SciFi-fi lore for me is that all is so ridiculously MAMMAL centered. Again, male cattle droppings. Just like the female Silurians having mammary glands Yes-you dont want to think too much about it hahah. you know my views on the gender changing 😂 But i have had to suspend my belief so maybe you have to too 😀 I am with you on the Artificial life creating knowing Mankind’s propensity for doing things they really really shouldn’t The implications of what some lab is doing somewhere does create a very nervous feeling inside me-hey that’s what i pray lol
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 6:39:07 GMT
In order: {Spoiler} How did the Doctor get it?- Yep, it's as fitzoliverj and @causality say, it found him on Gallifrey. If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised?
- The Hand of Omega is similar to the Luggage that follows Rincewind around in the Discworld novels. It's got a pseudo-sentience all of its own. Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in?
- Boredom was definitely a huge part of it, but it was being framed for murder that was the catalyst. How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment?- As a stellar manipulator, it's got a few tricks of its own. What's messing with a few guards when you can blow up a sun? How does the story fit together?- That's probably the most complicated part. The Hand was bequeathed to one of Gallifrey's triumvirate after Omega's death. In the old days, there was Rassilon, Omega and a figure now only referred to as the Other. The reason why everything is so Rassilon-focussed is because the Other threw himself into their breeding engines, the Looms, as a final act of rebellion. A little chaos for Rassilon's regime. Part of that biodata, that temporal DNA, ended up in the Doctor. The Hand recognised its former owner through those remnants. We've done a bit of pondering and discovered that the idea of looms isn't mutually exclusive to the Doctor having parents. We've actually got a few theories on the Divergent Wordsmiths website about how both can be possible and where the Hand fits in with his departure. The Looms was a theory very other worldly and i guess i could imagine them in their grandeur and purpose.The weaver and the weaved. That theDoctor wasn’t weaved i just took from Doctor Who the Movie-he said half human on his mothers side. The gender swapping regenerations means that it was one loom with both DNA sequences one becoming dominant.(the Doctor eventually becoming Female is probably down to the Father being Time Lord and Loomed) Back in his first incarnation this item,for reasons unknown he procures The Hand and i must be honest i thought by the end of remembrance he removed it to keep it out of Time Lord hands given its capabilities and destructive power. Yeah, I liked it too. It was a nice, very Gallifreyan way to get around the sterility they were cursed with by the last Pythia when Rassilon's group forced her out. Remnants of her regime fled to Karn and became the Sisterhood there. Before the Time Lords installed the Web of Time, it's mentioned that the universe was a lot more "irrational". Heavily based in magic and superstition. Lawless. Pliable. Astrolabus from the Voyager comics with Sixie probably fled there (or might've been among the first Time Lords during that initial transition). As Voyager says to the Doctor: "Logic tells you the world is round, but logic is a new toy." They fought a cursed magic with scientific technology. Fitting. Our theory was that he was loomed, but his birth specifically incorporated genetic data that had been secretly fed into the engine by his parents. A surrogate birth, so to speak. Hence, a few abnormalities like a bellybutton. The gender-swapping could easily fit in there as well. It's funny you mention that. I think the Hand thought that itself, hence why it decided to tag along with the Doctor. By the time of Remembrance, likely after a little chat in the funeral parlour and on the way to the gravesite, they've had a change of heart. The Doctor sends the Hand back to Gallifrey. With the benefit of hindsight, I guess he sees Romana's regime handling the technology with greater responsibility than those previous. Either that or that was part of his agreement with the Hand, like with the Nemesis statue. It's not clear, but I've the impression that the Hand -- while returning to Gallifrey -- didn't return to its masters. It had other things to do. In order: {Spoiler} How did the Doctor get it?- Yep, it's as fitzoliverj and @causality say, it found him on Gallifrey. If he just ran away from Gallifrey because he was bored, why did he bring it along? Why did he store it on earth unsupervised?
- The Hand of Omega is similar to the Luggage that follows Rincewind around in the Discworld novels. It's got a pseudo-sentience all of its own. Or was there a completely different reason for running away? Apart from being bored and not fitting in?
- Boredom was definitely a huge part of it, but it was being framed for murder that was the catalyst. How did he store it in the Tardis quickly while running away, it is not the most inconspicuous piece of equipment?- As a stellar manipulator, it's got a few tricks of its own. What's messing with a few guards when you can blow up a sun? How does the story fit together?- That's probably the most complicated part. The Hand was bequeathed to one of Gallifrey's triumvirate after Omega's death. In the old days, there was Rassilon, Omega and a figure now only referred to as the Other. The reason why everything is so Rassilon-focussed is because the Other threw himself into their breeding engines, the Looms, as a final act of rebellion. A little chaos for Rassilon's regime. Part of that biodata, that temporal DNA, ended up in the Doctor. The Hand recognised its former owner through those remnants. We've done a bit of pondering and discovered that the idea of looms isn't mutually exclusive to the Doctor having parents. We've actually got a few theories on the Divergent Wordsmiths website about how both can be possible and where the Hand fits in with his departure. Wow thank you. Great way of explaining everything to me! I specially like the example of the hand as the luggage from Pratchett. Love all that sentient technology. I already had some plans of checking out the website, hope I get around to it. No worries! Happy to help. If time's an issue, I can definitely recommend Theories and Addenda. Just a couple pages, very quick reads.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 16, 2019 6:40:35 GMT
Haha, my problem with much of the biological Who lore is my training as a scientist in the biological sciences. There is only so far I can suspend my disbelieve. Before it all becomes male cattle droppings. I neither by that „human on the mothers side“ ( do they even have the same DNA structure as we? We cannot even breed with chimps, and they have 99% DNA similarity with humans! ) nor the looms. There is a reason in nature the creator gave us sex ( or if you believe it all happened on its own why it developed on its own) and I just find this artificial life creating just deeply unsettling. Personal thing. The timelord sex change does not have to be genetic. A pet peeve in SciFi-fi lore for me is that all is so ridiculously MAMMAL centered. Again, male cattle droppings. Just like the female Silurians having mammary glands Yes-you dont want to think too much about it hahah. you know my views on the gender changing 😂 But i have had to suspend my belief so maybe you have to too 😀 I am with you on the Artificial life creating knowing Mankind’s propensity for doing things they really really shouldn’t The implications of what some lab is doing somewhere does create a very nervous feeling inside me-hey that’s what i pray lol Haha, hey, I needed to edit my post, So added a whole more paragraphs. Really hate typing on this mobile device. Nah, there is a difference between suspending disbelieve and utter laziness and bull****. As for the artificial life- maybe that is the writers intention to make us uncomfortable so we think about it...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 6:47:02 GMT
Yes-you dont want to think too much about it hahah. you know my views on the gender changing 😂 But i have had to suspend my belief so maybe you have to too 😀 I am with you on the Artificial life creating knowing Mankind’s propensity for doing things they really really shouldn’t The implications of what some lab is doing somewhere does create a very nervous feeling inside me-hey that’s what i pray lol Haha, hey, I needed to edit my post, So added a whole more paragraphs. Really hate typing on this mobile device. Nah, there is a difference between suspending disbelieve and utter laziness and bull****. As for the artificial life- maybe that is the writers intention to make us uncomfortable so we think about it... It's a deeply Gothic idea, isn't it? I find the discomfort really fascinating. We're happy to tinker around with all sorts of things scientifically, but the one thing that human beings do not like on a very visceral level is the idea of being biologically supplanted. Not expanding the field of what qualifies as life, we're largely content to live with clones and robots, but the idea of being actively replaced by it. There's a nerve there that gets struck. I think it might be based in an instinctive defence mechanism.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 16, 2019 6:48:20 GMT
The Looms was a theory very other worldly and i guess i could imagine them in their grandeur and purpose.The weaver and the weaved. That theDoctor wasn’t weaved i just took from Doctor Who the Movie-he said half human on his mothers side. The gender swapping regenerations means that it was one loom with both DNA sequences one becoming dominant.(the Doctor eventually becoming Female is probably down to the Father being Time Lord and Loomed) Back in his first incarnation this item,for reasons unknown he procures The Hand and i must be honest i thought by the end of remembrance he removed it to keep it out of Time Lord hands given its capabilities and destructive power. Yeah, I liked it too. It was a nice, very Gallifreyan way to get around the sterility they were cursed with by the last Pythia when Rassilon's group forced her out. Remnants of her regime fled to Karn and became the Sisterhood there. Before the Time Lords installed the Web of Time, it's mentioned that the universe was a lot more "irrational". Heavily based in magic and superstition. Lawless. Pliable. Astrolabus from the Voyager comics with Sixie probably fled there (or might've been among the first Time Lords during that initial transition). As Voyager says to the Doctor: "Logic tells you the world is round, but logic is a new toy." They fought a cursed magic with scientific technology. Fitting. Our theory was that he was loomed, but his birth specifically incorporated genetic data that had been secretly fed into the engine by his parents. A surrogate birth, so to speak. Hence, a few abnormalities like a bellybutton. The gender-swapping could easily fit in there as well. It's funny you mention that. I think the Hand thought that itself, hence why it decided to tag along with the Doctor. By the time of Remembrance, likely after a little chat in the funeral parlour and on the way to the gravesite, they've had a change of heart. The Doctor sends the Hand back to Gallifrey. With the benefit of hindsight, I guess he sees Romana's regime handling the technology with greater responsibility than those previous. Either that or that was part of his agreement with the Hand, like with the Nemesis statue. It's not clear, but I've the impression that the Hand -- while returning to Gallifrey -- didn't return to its masters. It had other things to do. Wow thank you. Great way of explaining everything to me! I specially like the example of the hand as the luggage from Pratchett. Love all that sentient technology. I already had some plans of checking out the website, hope I get around to it. No worries! Happy to help. If time's an issue, I can definitely recommend Theories and Addenda. Just a couple pages, very quick reads. Might just do that! Even with these looms, I still wish sci-fi writers would move away from placental mammal genetics. As I wrote above, sex change does not have to be genetic and certainly not an animality like a loomed timelord belly button. Hmm. I really should add this to the pet peeves thread.... this one is mine
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 6:48:50 GMT
The Looms was a theory very other worldly and i guess i could imagine them in their grandeur and purpose.The weaver and the weaved. That theDoctor wasn’t weaved i just took from Doctor Who the Movie-he said half human on his mothers side. The gender swapping regenerations means that it was one loom with both DNA sequences one becoming dominant.(the Doctor eventually becoming Female is probably down to the Father being Time Lord and Loomed) Back in his first incarnation this item,for reasons unknown he procures The Hand and i must be honest i thought by the end of remembrance he removed it to keep it out of Time Lord hands given its capabilities and destructive power. Yeah, I liked it too. It was a nice, very Gallifreyan way to get around the sterility they were cursed with by the last Pythia when Rassilon's group forced her out. Remnants of her regime fled to Karn and became the Sisterhood there. Before the Time Lords installed the Web of Time, it's mentioned that the universe was a lot more "irrational". Heavily based in magic and superstition. Lawless. Pliable. Astrolabus from the Voyager comics with Sixie probably fled there (or might've been among the first Time Lords during that initial transition). As Voyager says to the Doctor: "Logic tells you the world is round, but logic is a new toy." They fought a cursed magic with scientific technology. Fitting. I Think it was yourself who told me PYTHIA picture i love was the RED LADY and i loved that connectionOur theory was that he was loomed, but his birth specifically incorporated genetic data that had been secretly fed into the engine by his parents. A surrogate birth, so to speak. Hence, a few abnormalities like a bellybutton. The gender-swapping could easily fit in there as well. It took a lot of adjustment to accept gender swapping but hey i dont think about it too much at all but i just do not enjoy it but hey am a small minded human lol It's funny you mention that. I think the Hand thought that itself, hence why it decided to tag along with the Doctor. By the time of Remembrance, likely after a little chat in the funeral parlour and on the way to the gravesite, they've had a change of heart. The Doctor sends the Hand back to Gallifrey. With the benefit of hindsight, I guess he sees Romana's regime handling the technology with greater responsibility than those previous. Either that or that was part of his agreement with the Hand, like with the Nemesis statue. It's not clear, but I've the impression that the Hand -- while returning to Gallifrey -- didn't return to its masters. It had other things to do. I never thought that it returned because the Doctor Trusted Romana but it is a satisfactory explanation-Originally i thought when later events transpired that he took it because he knew A Great Time War was coming but i junked that Theory as i felt he would have been in his 7th Incarnation far better prepared for that eventualityWow thank you. Great way of explaining everything to me! I specially like the example of the hand as the luggage from Pratchett. Love all that sentient technology. I already had some plans of checking out the website, hope I get around to it. No worries! Happy to help. If time's an issue, I can definitely recommend Theories and Addenda. Just a couple pages, very quick reads.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 16, 2019 6:52:54 GMT
Haha, hey, I needed to edit my post, So added a whole more paragraphs. Really hate typing on this mobile device. Nah, there is a difference between suspending disbelieve and utter laziness and bull****. As for the artificial life- maybe that is the writers intention to make us uncomfortable so we think about it... It's a deeply Gothic idea, isn't it? I find the discomfort really fascinating. We're happy to tinker around with all sorts of things scientifically, but the one thing that human beings do not like on a very visceral level is the idea of being biologically supplanted. Not expanding the field of what qualifies as life, we're largely content to live with clones and robots, but the idea of being actively replaced by it. There's a nerve there that gets struck. I think it might be based in an instinctive defence mechanism. And rightfully so! Even as someone trained in the field, I have aversion to the idea. That alone maybe a great idea to write a story about. Where does it come from? Artificial genetic manipulation is not exactly common in nature, why should we have an inbuilt avoidance towards it? Why would it make me feel uncomfortable on a not rational but deep emotional level?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 7:01:54 GMT
Yeah, I liked it too. It was a nice, very Gallifreyan way to get around the sterility they were cursed with by the last Pythia when Rassilon's group forced her out. Remnants of her regime fled to Karn and became the Sisterhood there. Before the Time Lords installed the Web of Time, it's mentioned that the universe was a lot more "irrational". Heavily based in magic and superstition. Lawless. Pliable. Astrolabus from the Voyager comics with Sixie probably fled there (or might've been among the first Time Lords during that initial transition). As Voyager says to the Doctor: "Logic tells you the world is round, but logic is a new toy." They fought a cursed magic with scientific technology. Fitting. Our theory was that he was loomed, but his birth specifically incorporated genetic data that had been secretly fed into the engine by his parents. A surrogate birth, so to speak. Hence, a few abnormalities like a bellybutton. The gender-swapping could easily fit in there as well. It's funny you mention that. I think the Hand thought that itself, hence why it decided to tag along with the Doctor. By the time of Remembrance, likely after a little chat in the funeral parlour and on the way to the gravesite, they've had a change of heart. The Doctor sends the Hand back to Gallifrey. With the benefit of hindsight, I guess he sees Romana's regime handling the technology with greater responsibility than those previous. Either that or that was part of his agreement with the Hand, like with the Nemesis statue. It's not clear, but I've the impression that the Hand -- while returning to Gallifrey -- didn't return to its masters. It had other things to do. No worries! Happy to help. If time's an issue, I can definitely recommend Theories and Addenda. Just a couple pages, very quick reads. Might just do that! Even with these looms, I still wish sci-fi writers would move away from placental mammal genetics. As I wrote above, sex change does not have to be genetic and certainly not an animality like a loomed timelord belly button. Hmm. I really should add this to the pet peeves thread.... this one is mine Have you read Venusian Lullaby? It's a First Doctor, Ian and Barbara story with fascinating worldbuilding. The Venusians themselves reproduce as aquatic larvae -- budding, they call it -- and eat the brain matter of their dead at funerals to take on their memories. The biological and the social. It's a deeply Gothic idea, isn't it? I find the discomfort really fascinating. We're happy to tinker around with all sorts of things scientifically, but the one thing that human beings do not like on a very visceral level is the idea of being biologically supplanted. Not expanding the field of what qualifies as life, we're largely content to live with clones and robots, but the idea of being actively replaced by it. There's a nerve there that gets struck. I think it might be based in an instinctive defence mechanism. And rightfully so! Even as someone trained in the field, I have aversion to the idea. That alone maybe a great idea to write a story about. Where does it come from? Artificial genetic manipulation is not exactly common in nature, why should we have an inbuilt avoidance towards it? Why would it make me feel uncomfortable on a not rational but deep emotional level? Yeah, it would be fascinating! Why does it feel so deeply unsettling...? I've no idea why that's the case. It doesn't appear to be based in social conditioning. Is the reasoning part of human intelligence based more deeply in the survival instinct than we give it credit for? It opens up a heap of deeply interesting ideas.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 7:03:34 GMT
It's a deeply Gothic idea, isn't it? I find the discomfort really fascinating. We're happy to tinker around with all sorts of things scientifically, but the one thing that human beings do not like on a very visceral level is the idea of being biologically supplanted. Not expanding the field of what qualifies as life, we're largely content to live with clones and robots, but the idea of being actively replaced by it. There's a nerve there that gets struck. I think it might be based in an instinctive defence mechanism. And rightfully so! Even as someone trained in the field, I have aversion to the idea. That alone maybe a great idea to write a story about. Where does it come from? Artificial genetic manipulation is not exactly common in nature, why should we have an inbuilt avoidance towards it? Why would it make me feel uncomfortable on a not rational but deep emotional level? Its the idea of the creation of a Superman-but a man without morals,scruples conscience and for me would it have a Soul? theres a reason i find The Cyberman a truly creepy creation-eliminate illness,weakness,disease but what do you really create?
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