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Post by tuigirl on Sept 22, 2019 7:06:10 GMT
Enjoying a wonderful relaxed afternoon on the sun with this. This is really great. Nice spy drama story with a sci-fi twist, which is a nice change of pace. Colin and Nicola are great as always. But the real star is Harry and he just steals the show. I also really like that „Klein“-like character on there. It is no secret I enjoy ambiguous characters. As for the accents... a bit hit and miss as always.
Sometimes I just wish they would give up on butchering the German language so much that a native speaker cannot understand them and just have the Tardis translate it all. Certainly less distracting. So in my mind they just had an adventure in Russia or something. However, I admit they are getting better with it, there have been much worse offenders previously. Still, great adventure with great characters and I do love a good old bi- plane chase sequence. Always good to hear an opinion from a native speaker. There are some Australian accents out there (not at BF that I can remember, but elsewhere) which are... just... beyond... belief. Mind you, I say this as someone who finds Chris Cwej's butchery of it in Cold Fusion brings out a real chuckle. Janet Fielding and Travis Oliver really make it work. Props to the sound design and directing for that whole aerial chase. That felt genuinely gruelling and, rather ironically, claustrophobic all the way through. I also have to say it also depends on my mood how much bad accents annoy me. I had a great day yesterday and so I did not find it too distracting and it was certainly better than McGanns attempts at language assassination. Some German fan really needs to get him some pointers. But why I need to include words like Hände hoch in original German if I cannot manche the ch sound, I will never understand. Hogan’s Heroes does a better job in parts and this just sound like a bad parody of that. Also, it is wildly inconsistent- either I have all my text in English or I go the whole mile. It is completely unbelievable that in war time Germany anyone spoke a lot of English and so the „Hände hoch“ followed by English text because it would have been a double kill for the actors abilities and the listeners ears to go on in German, just comes across... desperate. Plus BF have shown they are able to cast German speaking actors. The one story in the 7th Doctor box set was so much better for it. Just compare the difference between that and the story here. I think it just has a much more natural and less forced flow to it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 7:30:26 GMT
Always good to hear an opinion from a native speaker. There are some Australian accents out there (not at BF that I can remember, but elsewhere) which are... just... beyond... belief. Mind you, I say this as someone who finds Chris Cwej's butchery of it in Cold Fusion brings out a real chuckle. Janet Fielding and Travis Oliver really make it work. Props to the sound design and directing for that whole aerial chase. That felt genuinely gruelling and, rather ironically, claustrophobic all the way through. I also have to say it also depends on my mood how much bad accents annoy me. I had a great day yesterday and so I did not find it too distracting and it was certainly better than McGanns attempts at language assassination. Some German fan really needs to get him some pointers. But why I need to include words like Hände hoch in original German if I cannot manche the ch sound, I will never understand. Hogan’s Heroes does a better job in parts and this just sound like a bad parody of that. Also, it is wildly inconsistent- either I have all my text in English or I go the whole mile. It is completely unbelievable that in war time Germany anyone spoke a lot of English and so the „Hände hoch“ followed by English text because it would have been a double kill for the actors abilities and the listeners ears to go on in German, just comes across... desperate. Plus BF have shown they are able to cast German speaking actors. The one story in the 7th Doctor box set was so much better for it. Just compare the difference between that and the story here. I think it just has a much more natural and less forced flow to it. I tend to enjoy Singularity's production values over The Space Race for that reason, actually. The former went just that extra mile and got, if not Russian actors for the Moscow setting, then those with a Slavic accent. I can't tell you when it started, but I can tell you why there's typically a mix of two languages when it comes to these sorts of things. There's a longstanding tradition of adventure stories to employ the occassional loanword for characters whose native language may not be English. Usually to emphasise an element of culture clash or the multiculturalism of the characters in the scene. For instance, a Cajun character (French Canadian descendants that came to the States) might begin their sentence with the French mais instead of English "well then...". Both have the same meaning, but the difference is emphasised. It works extremely well in prose, peppered here and there, but I can definitely see the issue once an actor tries to say it aloud. One of the issues going over to Japan, I discovered, was that English speakers for foreign languages tend to overemphasise vowels. Often to the point of muddying up the original meaning of the word. There's a great exchange from Andromeda, which I always remember:
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 22, 2019 7:31:14 GMT
what I find funny about the accents ‘issue’ is the fuss that people seem to feel they need to make. i’ve often heard my regional accent portrayed in audio dramas and on television and I just chuckle and let it go. who’s to say what an accent should or shouldn’t be. there is so much variation within even small districts and over time. Not making a fuss per se. Just finding it distracting, depending on my mood. It can break immersion which is essential for an audio drama.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 22, 2019 7:56:06 GMT
Not making a fuss per se. Just finding it distracting, depending on my mood. It can break immersion which is essential for an audio drama. sorry tuigirl . didn’t mean to sound as though this was directed at you. wasn’t my intention at all! more of a general comment cos it’s rare that characters are pinned down to particular places beyond a country and rarer that anyone could know all accent variants in a country. and definitely some international listeners more than others seem prone to criticise performances due to accent issues (again, just a general statement not directed at you 🙂). completely agree with you about things that distract from the immersive experience. On the podcast it’s mentioned that in Space: 1999 audio there’s a reference to a show called Space:1999. that will make me cringe when I get around to hearing it. No worries. I did not take offense. Most times I am able to ignore it since I got used to bad German accents in watching movies and series in the original (everything usually gets dubbed in Germany, one of the reasons I do not bother with a TV anymore). But at least with the visual input it is not that distracting as it is in a pure audio.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 8:02:46 GMT
sorry tuigirl . didn’t mean to sound as though this was directed at you. wasn’t my intention at all! more of a general comment cos it’s rare that characters are pinned down to particular places beyond a country and rarer that anyone could know all accent variants in a country. and definitely some international listeners more than others seem prone to criticise performances due to accent issues (again, just a general statement not directed at you 🙂). completely agree with you about things that distract from the immersive experience. On the podcast it’s mentioned that in Space: 1999 audio there’s a reference to a show called Space:1999. that will make me cringe when I get around to hearing it. No worries. I did not take offense. Most times I am able to ignore it since I got used to bad German accents in watching movies and series in the original (everything usually gets dubbed in Germany, one of the reasons I do not bother with a TV anymore). But at least with the visual input it is not that distracting as it is in a pure audio. Actually, that leads me to a question I've wanted to ask for a while. Between the dubbed German and the English originals you've seen, are there typically any major alterations to the storyline? Or is it more often copied word-for-word? Not making a fuss per se. Just finding it distracting, depending on my mood. It can break immersion which is essential for an audio drama. sorry tuigirl . didn’t mean to sound as though this was directed at you. wasn’t my intention at all! more of a general comment cos it’s rare that characters are pinned down to particular places beyond a country and rarer that anyone could know all accent variants in a country. and definitely some international listeners more than others seem prone to criticise performances due to accent issues (again, just a general statement not directed at you 🙂). completely agree with you about things that distract from the immersive experience. On the podcast it’s mentioned that in Space: 1999 audio there’s a reference to a show called Space:1999. that will make me cringe when I get around to hearing it. Honestly, I'm likewise about the fourth wall. There are exceptions, of course, like Tom Baker's addressing the audience on occassion ("Even the sonic screwdriver won't get me out of this one!") or Simon Templar's bookends for The Saint, but for the most part, it's something I'd prefer to be skirted around where possible. Oddly enough, though, I really enjoy the mixing and matching of series with similar ideas to one another. Done cleverly (and subtly) it can be rather enriching.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 22, 2019 8:33:26 GMT
No worries. I did not take offense. Most times I am able to ignore it since I got used to bad German accents in watching movies and series in the original (everything usually gets dubbed in Germany, one of the reasons I do not bother with a TV anymore). But at least with the visual input it is not that distracting as it is in a pure audio. Actually, that leads me to a question I've wanted to ask for a while. Between the dubbed German and the English originals you've seen, are there typically any major alterations to the storyline? Or is it more often copied word-for-word? sorry tuigirl . didn’t mean to sound as though this was directed at you. wasn’t my intention at all! more of a general comment cos it’s rare that characters are pinned down to particular places beyond a country and rarer that anyone could know all accent variants in a country. and definitely some international listeners more than others seem prone to criticise performances due to accent issues (again, just a general statement not directed at you 🙂). completely agree with you about things that distract from the immersive experience. On the podcast it’s mentioned that in Space: 1999 audio there’s a reference to a show called Space:1999. that will make me cringe when I get around to hearing it. Honestly, I'm likewise about the fourth wall. There are exceptions, of course, like Tom Baker's addressing the audience on occassion ("Even the sonic screwdriver won't get me out of this one!") or Simon Templar's bookends for The Saint, but for the most part, it's something I'd prefer to be skirted around where possible. Oddly enough, though, I really enjoy the mixing and matching of series with similar ideas to one another. Done cleverly (and subtly) it can be rather enriching. Although I have grown up with the dubbing, my first ever cinema visit was going for all the Mikey Mouse Cartoons which finally had been dubbed and it was a huge event ! I have come to hate it. After having lived abroad so long and having found out what I had been missing. I mean, just look at German conventions. There, even the voice over actors for foreign TV shows show up as guests, like this years German Who convention which features the voice of the Doctor! Meet the man who has voiced the most Doctors! I cannot judge his merits since I have refused to watch it in German. I have seen a few German NuWho episodes because I tried to convince family and friends of how awesome it is. There were quite a few VERY cringeworthy moments. Since I know the English text by heart, there were translation errors, changes in meaning and worst offender of all, Doctor and companions addressing each other with the formal They instead of You. Something you use to superiors or people you do not know. Among friends unusual to the extreme. It completely breaks my immersion and makes me laugh out loud. The Doctor and companions are friends who defy death all the time, it makes no sense whatsoever to address each other formally. I have no idea how they have handled the sex change, since in German, you would now HAVE to use the female inclination of Doctor to be politically correct. I do not dare to check. Having her as Doktorin would be an abomination. Back in the day of the Original series of Star Trek, the Dubbing was so bad, it changed meaning and story of the episodes completely. Worst offender was the episode with Spock’s Pon Farr, which was censored because of the sexual content= because it is about Spock’s mating season, and the episode instead was about Spock being brainwashed in the German version. Things have much improved and we have an own profession of actors who ONLY do voice over work. They have become extremely good and are celebrities in Germany in their own right. They have since then re- dubbed the old Star Trek episodes with the original voice actors and restored them, although it can be distracting when in the middle of the plot suddenly Kirks voice sounds much older. Better than TNG which changed Picards voice halfway through since the actor had died. This might also be the very reason the German version of BFs 10th Doctor adventures never took off. Tennants dubbing Artist had died in a car crash, so the 10th Doctor in the audio version has a different voice to the one on TV. So yeah, my relationship and appreciation to the practice of dubbing is ambivalent.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 10:53:15 GMT
Actually, that leads me to a question I've wanted to ask for a while. Between the dubbed German and the English originals you've seen, are there typically any major alterations to the storyline? Or is it more often copied word-for-word? Honestly, I'm likewise about the fourth wall. There are exceptions, of course, like Tom Baker's addressing the audience on occassion ("Even the sonic screwdriver won't get me out of this one!") or Simon Templar's bookends for The Saint, but for the most part, it's something I'd prefer to be skirted around where possible. Oddly enough, though, I really enjoy the mixing and matching of series with similar ideas to one another. Done cleverly (and subtly) it can be rather enriching. Although I have grown up with the dubbing, my first ever cinema visit was going for all the Mikey Mouse Cartoons which finally had been dubbed and it was a huge event ! I have come to hate it. After having lived abroad so long and having found out what I had been missing. I mean, just look at German conventions. There, even the voice over actors for foreign TV shows show up as guests, like this years German Who convention which features the voice of the Doctor! Meet the man who has voiced the most Doctors! I cannot judge his merits since I have refused to watch it in German. I have seen a few German NuWho episodes because I tried to convince family and friends of how awesome it is. There were quite a few VERY cringeworthy moments. Since I know the English text by heart, there were translation errors, changes in meaning and worst offender of all, Doctor and companions addressing each other with the formal They instead of You. Something you use to superiors or people you do not know. Among friends unusual to the extreme. It completely breaks my immersion and makes me laugh out loud. The Doctor and companions are friends who defy death all the time, it makes no sense whatsoever to address each other formally. I have no idea how they have handled the sex change, since in German, you would now HAVE to use the female inclination of Doctor to be politically correct. I do not dare to check. Having her as Doktorin would be an abomination. Back in the day of the Original series of Star Trek, the Dubbing was so bad, it changed meaning and story of the episodes completely. Worst offender was the episode with Spock’s Pon Farr, which was censored because of the sexual content= because it is about Spock’s mating season, and the episode instead was about Spock being brainwashed in the German version. Things have much improved and we have an own profession of actors who ONLY do voice over work. They have become extremely good and are celebrities in Germany in their own right. They have since then re- dubbed the old Star Trek episodes with the original voice actors and restored them, although it can be distracting when in the middle of the plot suddenly Kirks voice sounds much older. Better than TNG which changed Picards voice halfway through since the actor had died. This might also be the very reason the German version of BFs 10th Doctor adventures never took off. Tennants dubbing Artist had died in a car crash, so the 10th Doctor in the audio version has a different voice to the one on TV. So yeah, my relationship and appreciation to the practice of dubbing is ambivalent. Yeah, I was thinking of the stories I'd heard about The Original Series when the question popped up. I can definitely relate, we've had similar problems with production companies dubbing anime in English. It was expected for ages that you'd receive a bad dub or, at least, a stilted, unnatural dub. That was just the way it worked. Series like Fullmetal Alchemist or Cowboy Bebop with a more natural style of acting were considered rarer than not. Nowadays, with different production companies and different attitudes to dubbing (i.e. moving away from the "Saturday Morning Cartoon" mindset), there have been much better results. Thanks for sharing your insight, I appreciate it. It's been very informative. *thumbs up*
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Post by Ian McArdell on Sept 22, 2019 22:48:43 GMT
My take on 'Harry Houdini's War' is up today on CultBox - I rather enjoyed this, hope they bring John Schawb back for more!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Sept 24, 2019 22:35:50 GMT
What a lovely story, with well realized characters & situations. Which is pretty much what a Steve Lyons penned story almost always delivers. I got a little misty on 6's, "I'm always saying goodbye to you." line. I would be totally down for a Houdini/The Doctor box set.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 22:47:02 GMT
Haven’t listened to it yet, but I just wanted to know is this the pre or post Widow’s Assassin Peri?
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Post by mark687 on Sept 24, 2019 22:58:17 GMT
Haven’t listened to it yet, but I just wanted to know is this the pre or post Widow’s Assassin Peri? Pre Widows
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 12:58:53 GMT
I really enjoyed it, although I'm not a fan of those 'whats going on here', 'I'll explain at the very end' type of stories.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 14:39:35 GMT
I really enjoyed it, although I'm not a fan of those ' whats going on here', 'I'll explain at the very end' type of stories. Ahhh the story of my love life that is.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 15:07:38 GMT
I really enjoyed it, although I'm not a fan of those ' whats going on here', 'I'll explain at the very end' type of stories. Ahhh the story of my love life that is. At least you have one. Mines ' nothings going on here' !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 17:03:25 GMT
Am having a main range rest at moment but looking forward to this (people are positive about it )when I get back to them.I enjoy Peri and am looking forward to the future Box set.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 25, 2019 19:28:20 GMT
Am having a main range rest at moment but looking forward to this (people are positive about it )when I get back to them.I enjoy Peri and am looking forward to the future Box set. Don't bother with the previous McCoy trilogy. There was some.... room for improvement. But the trilogy with Colin- first rate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 19:54:35 GMT
Am having a main range rest at moment but looking forward to this (people are positive about it )when I get back to them.I enjoy Peri and am looking forward to the future Box set. Don't bother with the previous McCoy trilogy. There was some.... room for improvement. But the trilogy with Colin- first rate. I would go along with that, but could I add my own recommendation for Matt Fitton's Monsters of Gokroth? I found this to be a terrific tale, and well ahead of the two stories that followed it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 19:58:02 GMT
Don't bother with the previous McCoy trilogy. There was some.... room for improvement. But the trilogy with Colin- first rate. I would go along with that, but could I add my own recommendation for Matt Fitton's Monsters of Gokroth? I found this to be a terrific tale, and well ahead of the two stories that followed it. I havent done the Mags stories yet but did do Emisssary and Tyrants which i enjoyed. I have had a kind of new found love for Matt as for once i enjoyed his tales in Ravenous 3 above Dorneys. I shall wait till i have completed my Ravenous 4 and then resume with the Main Range 🤪 thanks to you and TUIGIRL for your suggestions....
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 25, 2019 20:01:39 GMT
Don't bother with the previous McCoy trilogy. There was some.... room for improvement. But the trilogy with Colin- first rate. I would go along with that, but could I add my own recommendation for Matt Fitton's Monsters of Gokroth? I found this to be a terrific tale, and well ahead of the two stories that followed it. Haha, that was exactly the one I liked the least. It was basically just a ton of monster noises screaming in a forest and completely non-conductive for relaxing listening at night before going to sleep.
If you wanted to stay awake on the other hand... ideal.
But I admit I never have been into the old movies this was a pastiche of, so it completely went over my head.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2019 21:32:56 GMT
Am having a main range rest at moment but looking forward to this (people are positive about it )when I get back to them.I enjoy Peri and am looking forward to the future Box set. Don't bother with the previous McCoy trilogy. There was some.... room for improvement.
Well that's great to read, NOW THAT I'VE BOUGHT THEM ALL !
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