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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 2:58:29 GMT
So I'm trying to understand, at least as far as the tenth Doctor is concerned, why have the Chronicle series when Tennant is working with Big Finish? Seems redundant.
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Post by Digi on Oct 1, 2019 3:23:33 GMT
I think they inadvertently backed themselves into a corner by effectively ending the Companion Chronicles range as it previously existed, and restricting it to just 1st/2nd Doctor companions. There's no reason not to just do regular Companion Chronicles-style stories with the revival era actors they work with, except that they've neutered the range in which they would have done it.
(That's not to say I'm not enjoying the 1st/2nd Doc box sets, I am, I'm just not sure of the longer-term wisdom of the decision they made.)
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 1, 2019 3:30:36 GMT
Well, we don't seem to have the good fortune of David Tennant working with Big Finish more often, given I'm sure his other commitments, and Jake Dudman is really quite good at his portrayal of the 10th Doctor, so I just figure "the more the merrier" - even if it tries to sound a bit odd to have Tenth Doctor Chronicles while we have Tenth Doctor Adventures with Tennant himself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2019 4:11:08 GMT
Well, we don't seem to have the good fortune of David Tennant working with Big Finish more often, given I'm sure his other commitments, and Jake Dudman is really quite good at his portrayal of the 10th Doctor, so I just figure "the more the merrier" - even if it tries to sound a bit odd to have have Tenth Doctor Chronicles while we have Tenth Doctor Adventures with Tennant himself. EXACTLY! It doesn't make sense... Tennant has done quite a bit of audio since coming back to Big Finish all considering... Makes no sense to have someone else pretend to be him when they could have just waited a few for Tennant to just do it.... |
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 1, 2019 4:24:28 GMT
Well, we don't seem to have the good fortune of David Tennant working with Big Finish more often, given I'm sure his other commitments, and Jake Dudman is really quite good at his portrayal of the 10th Doctor, so I just figure "the more the merrier" - even if it tries to sound a bit odd to have have Tenth Doctor Chronicles while we have Tenth Doctor Adventures with Tennant himself. EXACTLY! It doesn't make sense... Tennant has done quite a bit of audio since coming back to Big Finish all considering... Makes no sense to have someone else pretend to be him when they could have just waited a few for Tennant to just do it.... Actually I think by the time you subtract the bonus content of behind the scenes and promos, we may have only gotten about 9 hours worth of actual story content with David Tennant since February 2017, versus at least 8 hours a year with the other performers? |
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 1, 2019 7:42:18 GMT
I think they inadvertently backed themselves into a corner by effectively ending the Companion Chronicles range as it previously existed, and restricting it to just 1st/2nd Doctor companions. There's no reason not to just do regular Companion Chronicles-style stories with the revival era actors they work with, except that they've neutered the range in which they would have done it. (That's not to say I'm not enjoying the 1st/2nd Doc box sets, I am, I'm just not sure of the longer-term wisdom of the decision they made.) I’m not even sure it’s that. They could’ve easily carried the format over to a New Series banner for Doctors 9-12, they just... didn’t. And that’s my big issue with the way they’ve done the Doctor Chronicles; they’ve created a new format, despite having a working and acclaimed one already established, that’s problematic. We have lots of actors who already reprise their roles with Big Finish that would be perfect for the New Series Chronicles. Big Finish have also shown they can get actors on board to reprise their roles. It should be a perfect combination. Instead, we get someone on narration and Doctor duties, two fairly middling guests that inadvertently become the stars, and two stories that don’t feature anyone. It’s all a bit odd. I could understand it for the Ninth Doctor set to an extent, due to a potential lack of cast, but not the Tenth, Eleventh & Twelfth. Perhaps they created the template for the Ninth and just chose to adopt it for the rest? |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 1, 2019 8:22:08 GMT
Re the OP
Good question. I had kind of wondered that myself. Why indeed?
- Completeness for completeness's sake?
- Maybe Ten is so popular that involving him encouraged more people to try the Chronicles format, boosted bundle sales and therefore overall sales?
- Maybe once they decided to do New Series Chronicles, it simply never occurred to them NOT to do Ten, i.e. the thought in the OP simply never crossed the mind of anyone in the BF office
Personally I'd much rather have War Dr Chronicles than Ten, mainly because Tennant does full cast for BF whereas sadly Hurt never will again
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Post by cwm on Oct 1, 2019 17:21:11 GMT
I think they inadvertently backed themselves into a corner by effectively ending the Companion Chronicles range as it previously existed, and restricting it to just 1st/2nd Doctor companions. There's no reason not to just do regular Companion Chronicles-style stories with the revival era actors they work with, except that they've neutered the range in which they would have done it. (That's not to say I'm not enjoying the 1st/2nd Doc box sets, I am, I'm just not sure of the longer-term wisdom of the decision they made.) I’m not even sure it’s that. They could’ve easily carried the format over to a New Series banner for Doctors 9-12, they just... didn’t. And that’s my big issue with the way they’ve done the Doctor Chronicles; they’ve created a new format, despite having a working and acclaimed one already established, that’s problematic. We have lots of actors who already reprise their roles with Big Finish that would be perfect for the New Series Chronicles. Big Finish have also shown they can get actors on board to reprise their roles. It should be a perfect combination. Instead, we get someone on narration and Doctor duties, two fairly middling guests that inadvertently become the stars, and two stories that don’t feature anyone. It’s all a bit odd. I could understand it for the Ninth Doctor set to an extent, due to a potential lack of cast, but not the Tenth, Eleventh & Twelfth. Perhaps they created the template for the Ninth and just chose to adopt it for the rest? But the Companion Chronicles range are performed by, well, companions. So stories like "The Bleeding Heart" from the Ninth Doctor set, and the first two stories in the Tenth Doctor set, and indeed the entire Eleventh Doctor set (I think it would be pushing things too far to class Dorium or Kazran as 'companions') would have been non-starters because there'd be nobody to read them - so another approach was always going to have to be found here. And at the moment we get one Tennant set every 18 months, and as long as he's only available that infrequently the priority whenever he's available is going to be pairing him up with Rose and Donna (and possibly Martha too if Freema's up for it now she's done a TW) for fully dramatised stories. So "Wild Pastures" and "Last Chance" from the Tenth Doctor set are also examples of stories you couldn't really do as full casts at the moment. |
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 1, 2019 17:50:48 GMT
I’m not even sure it’s that. They could’ve easily carried the format over to a New Series banner for Doctors 9-12, they just... didn’t. And that’s my big issue with the way they’ve done the Doctor Chronicles; they’ve created a new format, despite having a working and acclaimed one already established, that’s problematic. We have lots of actors who already reprise their roles with Big Finish that would be perfect for the New Series Chronicles. Big Finish have also shown they can get actors on board to reprise their roles. It should be a perfect combination. Instead, we get someone on narration and Doctor duties, two fairly middling guests that inadvertently become the stars, and two stories that don’t feature anyone. It’s all a bit odd. I could understand it for the Ninth Doctor set to an extent, due to a potential lack of cast, but not the Tenth, Eleventh & Twelfth. Perhaps they created the template for the Ninth and just chose to adopt it for the rest? But the Companion Chronicles range are performed by, well, companions. So stories like "The Bleeding Heart" from the Ninth Doctor set, and the first two stories in the Tenth Doctor set, and indeed the entire Eleventh Doctor set (I think it would be pushing things too far to class Dorium or Kazran as 'companions') would have been non-starters because there'd be nobody to read them - so another approach was always going to have to be found here. And at the moment we get one Tennant set every 18 months, and as long as he's only available that infrequently the priority whenever he's available is going to be pairing him up with Rose and Donna (and possibly Martha too if Freema's up for it now she's done a TW) for fully dramatised stories. So "Wild Pastures" and "Last Chance" from the Tenth Doctor set are also examples of stories you couldn't really do as full casts at the moment. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You’re replying to stuff I haven’t really said. I didn’t say they should be Companion Chronicles, I just said that they were a successful format that should be replicated. As in the main star does their role and narration, alongside a guest star. If you were adopting that format, then we wouldn’t even have those stories where there is no main guest star, but you could also have the Dorium story, the Jacqueline story, the Adam story, etc. The existing approach exists purely because they didn’t take the Companion Chronicle format. I don’t understand you’re last point. I’m not saying they should get Tennant in to do these. I’m saying they could’ve adopted the existing Companion Chronicles style format and ran with that. They have more than enough actors they’re actively working with to fill them, not to mention the coups they do actually get for half of these Doctor Chronicles sets. However, they don’t do this and that’s exactly why I’ve voiced my frustration in my initial post. |
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Post by polly on Oct 1, 2019 23:08:30 GMT
If I had to hazard a cynical guess, I think it comes down to money. The New Series is very popular, and Tennant is arguably the most enduringly popular of that lot. So I wouldn't doubt that his stories are big sellers by BF's standards, and they'd want to maximize the amount of them. Tennant is too busy to be chained up in the basement like they've done to Tom, so they went with the Chronicles route.
I personally am not interested in them because, like others have mentioned, I'd have preferred proper Companion Chronicles or things along the lines of Churchill Years instead of hiring an impersonator.
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Post by cwm on Oct 2, 2019 6:31:52 GMT
If I had to hazard a cynical guess, I think it comes down to money. The New Series is very popular, and Tennant is arguably the most enduringly popular of that lot. So I wouldn't doubt that his stories are big sellers by BF's standards, and they'd want to maximize the amount of them. Tennant is too busy to be chained up in the basement like they've done to Tom, so they went with the Chronicles route. I personally am not interested in them because, like others have mentioned, I'd have preferred proper Companion Chronicles or things along the lines of Churchill Years instead of hiring an impersonator. I doubt the Chronicles sell anywhere near as well as the 10DAs. It is more likely to be the case that they want to be able to tell stories with the Tenth Doctor whilst Tennant is only occasionally available, or tell stories they can't tell with the 10DAs at the moment. |
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 2, 2019 14:00:42 GMT
I think they inadvertently backed themselves into a corner by effectively ending the Companion Chronicles range as it previously existed, and restricting it to just 1st/2nd Doctor companions. There's no reason not to just do regular Companion Chronicles-style stories with the revival era actors they work with, except that they've neutered the range in which they would have done it. (That's not to say I'm not enjoying the 1st/2nd Doc box sets, I am, I'm just not sure of the longer-term wisdom of the decision they made.) I mean, if they wanted them to be Companion Chronicles, I think they would've just called them that and "The Ninth Doctor Volume 1", just as the 1st and 2nd Doctors ones. I think this is so they don't have to rely on the companion actors, who are much bigger than their classic counterparts, and would be as hard to get as the Doctor actors, or more in some cases. |
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 2, 2019 14:06:16 GMT
It’s all a bit odd. I could understand it for the Ninth Doctor set to an extent, due to a potential lack of cast, but not the Tenth, Eleventh & Twelfth. Perhaps they created the template for the Ninth and just chose to adopt it for the rest? Really? I think it would be the complete opposite. They have the stars of the Ninth (and now Tenth) Doctor's era (save for Mickey, but I don't think Noel would be too difficult to get), but the ones from the Eleventh and Twelfth are definitely too big and busy to do BF atm. I think this format works. Sort of a mix between CC and Short Trip. Perfect to fill in those eras while we wait for "the real deal". |
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 2, 2019 14:53:59 GMT
If I had to hazard a cynical guess, I think it comes down to money. The New Series is very popular, and Tennant is arguably the most enduringly popular of that lot. So I wouldn't doubt that his stories are big sellers by BF's standards, and they'd want to maximize the amount of them. Tennant is too busy to be chained up in the basement like they've done to Tom, so they went with the Chronicles route. I personally am not interested in them because, like others have mentioned, I'd have preferred proper Companion Chronicles or things along the lines of Churchill Years instead of hiring an impersonator. Also, how much did BF pay for the New Series license? And having shelled out, they need to get a return from that investment. Now if the main Dr/companion actors are not available at all or available only very infrequently then BF risk ending up having paid out a lot for license that they can hardly ever use because of actor availability - which will not do their profitability any good.
So, having paid for a new series license, they need to use that license to generate revenue. And if the main actors are not available ... then they end up doing the next best thing, i.e. Chronicles with sound-alikes
N.B. the above assumes they had to pay a materially higher amount to the BBC for the new series license than the classic series license they had previously. Feel free to disagree with that assumption.
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Post by shallacatop on Oct 2, 2019 15:57:56 GMT
It’s all a bit odd. I could understand it for the Ninth Doctor set to an extent, due to a potential lack of cast, but not the Tenth, Eleventh & Twelfth. Perhaps they created the template for the Ninth and just chose to adopt it for the rest? Really? I think it would be the complete opposite. They have the stars of the Ninth (and now Tenth) Doctor's era (save for Mickey, but I don't think Noel would be too difficult to get), but the ones from the Eleventh and Twelfth are definitely too big and busy to do BF atm. I think this format works. Sort of a mix between CC and Short Trip. Perfect to fill in those eras while we wait for "the real deal". I think you're making the assumption that I was talking about having the sets completely like the Companion Chronicles, which isn't the case. I am talking about using the format of the main star doing their role and narration, alongside a guest star. Although it would be nice, I wouldn't expect, say, a Tenth Doctor set to comprise of Billie Piper, Freema Agyeman, Catherine Tate & Alex Kingston. They might have all worked with Big Finish, but not all of them on a regular basis. I don't think it's unrealistic for a cast list of Billie & Alex, alongside Michelle Ryan & Jacqueline King, though. You're quite right about the Ninth Doctor set. I forgot that we have a fair few working with Big Finish; enough to fill a set. There's plenty of scope for the Eleventh and Twelfth Doctors. So many regulars are already working with Big Finish on various spin-offs; UNIT, River Song, the Paternoster Gang, Missy, etc. You could use any two of those alongside the two new coups that Big Finish have, in all fairness, managed for these Chronicles sets so far - Adam, Sylvia, Dorium, Danny, etc., but they tend to be the main attraction with the Chronicles sets, when I don't think that should be the case. I don't see why we can't have a full set with on screen stars. There are more than enough, it's just Big Finish don't go down that route. That's my issue. |
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Post by cwm on Oct 2, 2019 17:11:20 GMT
You're quite right about the Ninth Doctor set. I forgot that we have a fair few working with Big Finish; enough to fill a set. Although the chances of BF ever working with Bruno Langley any time soon is pretty much zero, I would say. |
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Post by polly on Oct 2, 2019 18:24:46 GMT
I doubt the Chronicles sell anywhere near as well as the 10DAs. It is more likely to be the case that they want to be able to tell stories with the Tenth Doctor whilst Tennant is only occasionally available, or tell stories they can't tell with the 10DAs at the moment. Oh, I don't think they sell as well as the real deal, either. But if I were a BF bean counter, I would choose to have some Tenth Doctor sales in between big spikes for the 10DAs over having the 10DAs and nothing else. I still don't like the way they did it, but it makes perfect sense to me that they'd have something else on the go. Also, how much did BF pay for the New Series license? And having shelled out, they need to get a return from that investment. Now if the main Dr/companion actors are not available at all or available only very infrequently then BF risk ending up having paid out a lot for license that they can hardly ever use because of actor availability - which will not do their profitability any good.
So, having paid for a new series license, they need to use that license to generate revenue. And if the main actors are not available ... then they end up doing the next best thing, i.e. Chronicles with sound-alikes
N.B. the above assumes they had to pay a materially higher amount to the BBC for the new series license than the classic series license they had previously. Feel free to disagree with that assumption.
I'm sure not wanting to have only a couple New Series releases per year factors into it, but I'm not entirely certain they did pay a much higher fee than they otherwise would. It was my impression that sometime around "Day of the Doctor" the BBC reorganized the line between "Classic" and "New" Who. Instead of drawing a line in the sand between Eight and Nine, there would now be the current Doctor and everything else was "Legacy" Who. So I'd thought BF had been granted this "Legacy" license which at the time covered up to Matt Smith, and then grew to encompass Capaldi once he was out and thus became "Legacy." Now I say all that I'm starting to doubt my memory. |
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 3, 2019 2:24:28 GMT
I'm sure not wanting to have only a couple New Series releases per year factors into it, but I'm not entirely certain they did pay a much higher fee than they otherwise would. It was my impression that sometime around "Day of the Doctor" the BBC reorganized the line between "Classic" and "New" Who. Instead of drawing a line in the sand between Eight and Nine, there would now be the current Doctor and everything else was "Legacy" Who. So I'd thought BF had been granted this "Legacy" license which at the time covered up to Matt Smith, and then grew to encompass Capaldi once he was out and thus became "Legacy." Now I say all that I'm starting to doubt my memory. Your memory's probably fine, but I'm not sure if we ever got that kind of detail about how exactly the licensing is expanding for Big Finish, a lot of the details might have been left to inference. I'd sort of assumed that the licensing for the Twelfth Doctor's era might have been an add-on the way I'd assumed that the licensing for The Paternoster Gang or Class might have been, but that's a very good question whether a separate license for Eleven or Twelve would have cost-effective. On the other hand, The Doctor Chronicles might be more cost-effective not only because of the lower costs for cast and probably crew, but possibly to peculiarities of the licensing cost themselves. I've always got the impression from a number of the Big Finish stories that it must cost them less if a character turns out to not really be the character after all according to the story. Perhaps it might also cost them less for licensing the use of a particular Doctor if that Doctor isn't played by the usual performer, although I'm sure there's a very limited amount of that they would like to do. Don't know really, just speculating  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 5:38:53 GMT
I'm sure not wanting to have only a couple New Series releases per year factors into it, but I'm not entirely certain they did pay a much higher fee than they otherwise would. It was my impression that sometime around "Day of the Doctor" the BBC reorganized the line between "Classic" and "New" Who. Instead of drawing a line in the sand between Eight and Nine, there would now be the current Doctor and everything else was "Legacy" Who. So I'd thought BF had been granted this "Legacy" license which at the time covered up to Matt Smith, and then grew to encompass Capaldi once he was out and thus became "Legacy." Now I say all that I'm starting to doubt my memory. Your memory's probably fine, but I'm not sure if we ever got that kind of detail about how exactly the licensing is expanding for Big Finish, a lot of the details might have been left to inference. I'd sort of assumed that the licensing for the Twelfth Doctor's era might have been an add-on the way I'd assumed that the licensing for The Paternoster Gang or Class might have been, but that's a very good question whether a separate license for Eleven or Twelve would have cost-effective. On the other hand, The Doctor Chronicles might be more cost-effective not only because of the lower costs for cast and probably crew, but possibly to peculiarities of the licensing cost themselves. I've always got the impression from a number of the Big Finish stories that it must cost them less if a character turns out to not really be the character after all according to the story. Perhaps it might also cost them less for licensing the use of a particular Doctor if that Doctor isn't played by the usual performer, although I'm sure there's a very limited amount of that they would like to do. Don't know really, just speculating I don't believe they licence individual releases, I think it's more broad then that. |
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Post by barnabaslives on Oct 5, 2019 9:42:44 GMT
I don't believe they licence individual releases, I think it's more broad then that. I didn't mean actually mean that, but whether sometimes they license certain ranges individually, and certain characters. |
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