|
Post by mark687 on May 4, 2020 23:46:12 GMT
Thread Bump
As always I wait till these are on TV
Its very "Return of the Jedi" in that bits work well but the end result is meh.
Again the stars are the old guard/characters there's absolute conviction in what they do [a Wookie's Howl brought a tear, a Droid rationale of self-sacrifice made me do a double-take as did the Emperor's grudging tone of respect for Leia dying in nudging her son back to the light , a "But there are of us caused a bigger smile then "Cap on your left"
But
I think I worked out the main flaw in the trilogy, it relies on the assumption of strong personality and chemistry of Ray and Kylo and they have nether.
Also the HS cameo was ok but maybe shouldn't have been immediately after the goodbye
6/10
Serviceable
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 5, 2020 6:14:40 GMT
The main flaw in the trilogy is that they are making it up as they go along. No clear story. Rise of Skywalker is better than the appalling Last Jedi, but only marginally & still a shambles. The clunky scriptwriting is damage limitation!
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on May 5, 2020 8:47:36 GMT
This trilogy never see light of day on my blu ray shelves, Disney hasn't got a clue how write characters or develop story arcs, it's become woke, pc twaddle.
I'll stick to 1-6, Rogue One, Clone Wars, Rebels & Mandalarion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 9:45:59 GMT
This trilogy never see light of day on my blu ray shelves, Disney hasn't got a clue how write characters or develop story arcs, it's become woke, pc twaddle. I'll stick to 1-6, Rogue One, Clone Wars, Rebels & Mandalarion. Its sad how all the excitement and buzz in the run up to The Force Awakens was replaced by a feeling of anti-climax, whilst critics praised The Last Jedi for daring to fly in the face of fans expectations. The result was that by the third film, general audiences had effectively lost faith and interest in the franchise and it was just another CGI popcorn fodder. Have you seen this article? Apparently, the fans are wrong about a few things actually:
|
|
|
Post by Digi on May 5, 2020 9:49:57 GMT
I was on another forum recently talking Star Wars, specifically about how Dave Filoni gets it, and someone there made an observation I thought was interesting:
JJ Abrams likes Star Wars but doesn't understand it, while Rian Johnson understands Star Wars but doesn't like it.
It's a bit reductive, to be sure, but I found it thought-provoking. (The third part of this thought is that Filoni both likes and understands SW, hence why everything he touches is so good).
|
|
|
Post by Jeedai on May 5, 2020 9:58:25 GMT
Apropos of nothing, I watched TFA and TLJ back to back for the first time the day before I went to see TROS, and was surprised by how well TLJ followed TFA. The main flaw in the trilogy is that they are making it up as they go along. No clear story... I disagree about the problem being 'making it up as they go along.' The problem was two plans smacking into each other with no referee... Or a referee that was all-to willing to throw the ball back to Abrams after the blowback against Johnson. Force Awakens, while cookie-cutter Star Wars, is an enjoyable movie. Middle-tier Star Wars IMO. Good, but not great. Held back from being more by its insistence on being a point-by-point retread of ANH's story beats. I recently saw a YouTube video essay that details why it veers so much into being a remake of A New Hope that I find myself agreeing with a lot. In short, in one of the Prequels making-of docos, Lucas stated that the reasons for the similarities between the OT and Prequels is that they were composed like poetry. The scenes rhyme. History repeats. The classical heroic cycle plays out anew. Abrams took that comment as a mandate. History MUST repeat. The scenes and characters MUST rhyme. The sequels MUST be similar to what came before. That is the WHOLE POINT of a Star Wars trilogy. That was his plan. The way I see it, in hindsight, Rian Johnson then came in with an auteur's vision of breaking that cycle before it doomed a third set of characters to cookie-cutter existences. Casting aside Star Wars story-telling conventions that have become cliche in favor of reaching for the freedom and daring the Original Trilogy enjoyed before the tropes became cemented in place. There was a plan in place, which became the Duel Of The Fates script, that would have brought that vision to a conclusion. Abrams got to helm the third movie instead, and re-instated his vision of sameness. Yanking everything and everyone back onto the rails of repeating history. Looking back on the sequels as a (disjointed) whole, I think Johnson had the right idea, if flawed execution. If Disney ever goes back on its word that the Skywalker Saga is over, TROS condemns us all to watching the Original Trilogy rehash itself all over again every 20-ish years. Because the trilogies MUST rhyme...
|
|
|
Post by Jeedai on May 5, 2020 10:03:40 GMT
This trilogy never see light of day on my blu ray shelves, Disney hasn't got a clue how write characters or develop story arcs, it's become woke, pc twaddle. I'll stick to 1-6, Rogue One, Clone Wars, Rebels & Mandalarion. So Disney got 3 and 1/7 things right?
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 5, 2020 10:34:57 GMT
Apropos of nothing, I watched TFA and TLJ back to back for the first time the day before I went to see TROS, and was surprised by how well TLJ followed TFA. The main flaw in the trilogy is that they are making it up as they go along. No clear story... I disagree about the problem being 'making it up as they go along.' The problem was two plans smacking into each other with no referee... Or a referee that was all-to willing to throw the ball back to Abrams after the blowback against Johnson. Force Awakens, while cookie-cutter Star Wars, is an enjoyable movie. Middle-tier Star Wars IMO. Good, but not great. Held back from being more by its insistence on being a point-by-point retread of ANH's story beats. I recently saw a YouTube video essay that details why it veers so much into being a remake of A New Hope that I find myself agreeing with a lot. In short, in one of the Prequels making-of docos, Lucas stated that the reasons for the similarities between the OT and Prequels is that they were composed like poetry. The scenes rhyme. History repeats. The classical heroic cycle plays out anew. Abrams took that comment as a mandate. History MUST repeat. The scenes and characters MUST rhyme. The sequels MUST be similar to what came before. That is the WHOLE POINT of a Star Wars trilogy. That was his plan. The way I see it, in hindsight, Rian Johnson then came in with an auteur's vision of breaking that cycle before it doomed a third set of characters to cookie-cutter existences. Casting aside Star Wars story-telling conventions that have become cliche in favor of reaching for the freedom and daring the Original Trilogy enjoyed before the tropes became cemented in place. There was a plan in place, which became the Duel Of The Fates script, that would have brought that vision to a conclusion. Abrams got to helm the third movie instead, and re-instated his vision of sameness. Yanking everything and everyone back onto the rails of repeating history. Looking back on the sequels as a (disjointed) whole, I think Johnson had the right idea, if flawed execution. If Disney ever goes back on its word that the Skywalker Saga is over, TROS condemns us all to watching the Original Trilogy rehash itself all over again every 20-ish years. Because the trilogies MUST rhyme... Johnson had the right idea? Trying to reinvent a franchise midway through a trilogy, & make a film that is narratively inept, is one of the worst ideas in all of cinema!
|
|
|
Post by Jeedai on May 5, 2020 10:48:13 GMT
Johnson had the right idea? Trying to reinvent a franchise midway through a trilogy, & make a film that is narratively inept, is one of the worst ideas in all of cinema! Trying to re-re-invent a trilogy at the last leg with a film that's creatively bankrupt isn't the best idea either.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 5, 2020 11:04:25 GMT
Johnson had the right idea? Trying to reinvent a franchise midway through a trilogy, & make a film that is narratively inept, is one of the worst ideas in all of cinema! Trying to re-re-invent a trilogy at the last leg with a film that's creatively bankrupt isn't the best idea either. True, but it's because of Johnson's film & Disney's lack of plan that it had to happen.
|
|
|
Post by Jeedai on May 5, 2020 11:26:29 GMT
True, but it's because of Johnson's film & Disney's lack of plan that it had to happen. If Abrams had been able to make the whole Sequel Trilogy, it no doubt would have been more narratively and thematically consistent than what we ended up with. But there would have been an 'OK but not great' Empire Strikes Back clone in the middle of it. Which I think would have gone over about as well as Star Trek Into Darkness turning out to be a stealth remake of The Wrath Of Khan.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 5, 2020 11:33:54 GMT
True, but it's because of Johnson's film & Disney's lack of plan that it had to happen. If Abrams had been able to make the whole Sequel Trilogy, it no doubt would have been more narratively and thematically consistent than what we ended up with. But there would have been an 'OK but not great' Empire Strikes Back clone in the middle of it. Which I think would have gone over about as well as Star Trek Into Darkness turning out to be a stealth remake of The Wrath Of Khan. Well that's just a guess, we have no idea.
|
|
|
Post by Jeedai on May 5, 2020 11:55:23 GMT
Well that's just a guess, we have no idea. Well as long as I'm guessing, in that alternate universe I think there would have been a significant backlash against remaking what is now regarded as one of The Greatest SciFi Movies Of All Time, but not enough to pull Abrams off of Part 3. Still big enough to put extra stink on Solo and subsequently kill the spinoff films.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on May 5, 2020 12:14:31 GMT
This trilogy never see light of day on my blu ray shelves, Disney hasn't got a clue how write characters or develop story arcs, it's become woke, pc twaddle. I'll stick to 1-6, Rogue One, Clone Wars, Rebels & Mandalarion. So Disney got 3 and 1/7 things right? Lucas got 1-6, Clone Wars series right, Rogue One a fluke & Mando was good but very overrated i actually was underwhelmed by the series overall, thankfully last series of Clone Wars especially last 4 episodes are truly amazing. It's who you get to helm the ship of your franchise you either have Captain Kirk or Captain Pugwash. Despite George Lucas failure to write dialogue without him at the helm this franchise is in danger of sinking.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 5, 2020 12:51:58 GMT
So Disney got 3 and 1/7 things right? Lucas got 1-6, Clone Wars series right, Rogue One a fluke & Mando was good but very overrated i actually was underwhelmed by the series overall, thankfully last series of Clone Wars especially last 4 episodes are truly amazing. It's who you get to helm the ship of your franchise you either have Captain Kirk or Captain Pugwash. Despite George Lucas failure to write dialogue without him at the helm this franchise is in danger of sinking. I loved Mandalorian. I know many seem to be reappraising the prequels recently but they are awful, the only good thing when compared to the new films is that they tell a coherent story over 3 films, but this is a basic skill that anyone should get right.
|
|
|
Post by Digi on May 5, 2020 13:16:02 GMT
So Disney got 3 and 1/7 things right? Lucas got 1-6, Clone Wars series right, Rogue One a fluke & Mando was good but very overrated i actually was underwhelmed by the series overall, thankfully last series of Clone Wars especially last 4 episodes are truly amazing. It's who you get to helm the ship of your franchise you either have Captain Kirk or Captain Pugwash. Despite George Lucas failure to write dialogue without him at the helm this franchise is in danger of sinking. There are several video games, numerous novels, dozens of comics, an entire animation studio that is assuredly not sitting idle, Mandalorian season 2, three other live-action TV series, and eight films (including one just announced yesterday) in the pipe. Star Wars is most assuredly in zero danger of sinking.
|
|
|
Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 5, 2020 13:27:32 GMT
Lucas got 1-6, Clone Wars series right, Rogue One a fluke & Mando was good but very overrated i actually was underwhelmed by the series overall, thankfully last series of Clone Wars especially last 4 episodes are truly amazing. It's who you get to helm the ship of your franchise you either have Captain Kirk or Captain Pugwash. Despite George Lucas failure to write dialogue without him at the helm this franchise is in danger of sinking. There are several video games, numerous novels, dozens of comics, an entire animation studio that is assuredly not sitting idle, Mandalorian season 2, three other live-action TV series, and eight films (including one just announced yesterday) in the pipe. Star Wars is most assuredly in zero danger of sinking. Oh dear.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on May 5, 2020 17:13:31 GMT
Lucas got 1-6, Clone Wars series right, Rogue One a fluke & Mando was good but very overrated i actually was underwhelmed by the series overall, thankfully last series of Clone Wars especially last 4 episodes are truly amazing. It's who you get to helm the ship of your franchise you either have Captain Kirk or Captain Pugwash. Despite George Lucas failure to write dialogue without him at the helm this franchise is in danger of sinking. There are several video games, numerous novels, dozens of comics, an entire animation studio that is assuredly not sitting idle, Mandalorian season 2, three other live-action TV series, and eight films (including one just announced yesterday) in the pipe. Star Wars is most assuredly in zero danger of sinking. Rather have quailty over quantity, what Disney churning out is forgettable twaddle, Mando got potential, the rest couldn't care less about now Disney killed my passion for Star Wars.
|
|
|
Post by Timelord007 on May 5, 2020 17:14:54 GMT
Lucas got 1-6, Clone Wars series right, Rogue One a fluke & Mando was good but very overrated i actually was underwhelmed by the series overall, thankfully last series of Clone Wars especially last 4 episodes are truly amazing. It's who you get to helm the ship of your franchise you either have Captain Kirk or Captain Pugwash. Despite George Lucas failure to write dialogue without him at the helm this franchise is in danger of sinking. I loved Mandalorian. I know many seem to be reappraising the prequels recently but they are awful, the only good thing when compared to the new films is that they tell a coherent story over 3 films, but this is a basic skill that anyone should get right. I enjoyed it i just didn't feel it created strong character arc & overall story arc until last 2 episodes, music score wasn't great either. Action was great though & baby yoda plus Gina in it who i fancy a lot.
|
|
ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
Likes: 5,063
|
Post by ljwilson on May 20, 2020 17:59:02 GMT
Anything that names the chief baddie as 'Snoke' is always going to be a bit crap if you as me.
|
|