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Post by scriptortempore on Jan 1, 2020 22:27:57 GMT
You know what I'd kinda love? When we left Missy she would have no reason to want to hate The Doctor as s/he did before, regen or not, so I'd really like the "everything is lies" thing to flip it with a bigger reveal. Who has The Doctor actually left that hateful and with the power to pull off a big deal plan and knowledge of other worlds and Universes? Well....he did depose and throw Rassilon into exile! Maybe Rassilon is using exactly who The Doctor and the audience would expect to see as the MASTERmind against her? That's my fanjodrell for this ep. Interesting, and possible. That said, I thought if it is post Missy, that line might mean Missy tried to live like the Doctor does, and it just went wrong and so the Master has gone even more intensely into their old character traits. Might explain why this Master is a lot more manic and vindictive? I'd prefer that but my mind is telling me it's probably going to be some series long arc independent of the Master in which the timeless child line comes into play.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 1, 2020 22:34:21 GMT
First thing first, what a entertaining hour of Doctor Who. I don't know where it is headed but taken as an hour of family entertainment, it does the job. What a difference a year makes. I felt like 13's debut was just kind of okay but after Spyfall, I'm looking forward to episode two. As with last series, Chibnall & the production team have delivered a beautiful looking & sounding hour of telly. And for that reveal, again I'll wait until Sunday to decide how I feel about this new version of you know Who.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 1, 2020 22:35:10 GMT
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Post by newt5996 on Jan 1, 2020 22:37:51 GMT
And with this Master having explicitly met The Doctor in a pre-Jodie incarnation.....well, when does Sacha do that BF story and what Doc was it? I'd honestly like an early Eighth Doctor appearance with this Master, giving plenty of time for the Doctor to forget him. Eight because amnesia is Eight's best friend.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 22:45:08 GMT
And with this Master having explicitly met The Doctor in a pre-Jodie incarnation.....well, when does Sacha do that BF story and what Doc was it? I'd honestly like an early Eighth Doctor appearance with this Master, giving plenty of time for the Doctor to forget him. Eight because amnesia is Eight's best friend. You wouldn't even need amnesia. Jodie's Doc has both met "O" before, and left that meeting thinking he was trustworthy and smart. So The Master plays it as that to The Doc's face, we know the truth and we don't need any retcon! Just like how they had River in a couple of her more timey-wimey BF Doctor meets.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 22:54:15 GMT
Quite interested to know what people think might come of the Master playing on the fam's lack of knowledge about the Doctor? Might be starting to cause distrust in the team. But that was done with Clara so I'm not sure it'll be some conscious plan by the Master as it was then. What if part of the fam gets tempted to join the Master as his companion🤔 There was an interesting shift in the character of Yaz following her brief ordeal. Just slight, but it was there. Ryan looked crestfallen about abandoning her, and she didn't do anything to reassure him. And Chris Chibnall has said that Yaz gets more to do this series - could she be thinking of jumping ship?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 22:58:09 GMT
If you do descend into the depths, Yaz, remember - the only way is up!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 23:12:18 GMT
The reveal was so unexpected & fun for me that I didn't think about that until later. But I agree about the problem with this being a post-Missy Master. I always thought that end for her was such a perfect way to give a send off for the Master. Dying at their own hands rather than turn good. Of course Moffat did give any future showrunner some wiggle room by not showing the regeneration from Simm to Gomez. All we need is a quick throwaway line from the Master, "so you're a woman now, I must try that sometime". Yeah, I think it's entirely possible to write around it. I don't have a problem with an evil Master but if this is pre-Gomez I think it does keep the characterisation tidier and doesn't retcon her arc. There's also the chance it is post-Missy and there's something in the "everything you know is a lie" thing, and Sacha can easily play much darker and more sombre - what looked panto in 2mins could easily be just his joy at fooling The Doc, then he calms the beans. I'm on board with the casting anyway. Terrific actor and a high profile get for the show. I like that unlike the Simm reveal this didn't need to be spoiled as it's New Year's Day so ratings are gonna be fine anyway, even for the casuals, so no need to spoil anything. Depending on the "lie" that Sacha refers to, he may not even be The Master. It's all still to play for, part 1 of 2 and even then we've got 8 more to go. Could be Omega for all we know, pretending to be The Master. Roll on Sunday. Maybe, I was wondering if the "lie" reference is something bigger, an arc for the season. I'm not sure if the more casual fan will be impressed if the Master who they know, is really another villain they may not have heard about before.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 23:14:37 GMT
Can you send the names of the CBBC shows with productions, locations and sets like that to me in a PM please? Would love to see them! Obviously mucky's entitled to his opinion, but as someone who works in kids media, I'm not cool with the implication that CBBC shows are inherently shoddy or low quality. Has anyone watched Hetty Feather, Worst Witch, Dumping Ground or even the new Demon Headmaster (written by our own Emma Reeves and Joe Lidster?) - for the budget and time they have to make them, they look very slick and extremely professional. And are legitmately well-written.
Feel free to call Chibnall's stories the biggest P.O.Ss ever, but can we stop using 'cbbc/kids show' as code for 'really sucks'? It's innaccurate and disingenious.
Agree 100%. Using the kids telly example to denigrate the look of a show is not just a cheap lazy insult but incorrect.
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Post by timegirl on Jan 1, 2020 23:14:47 GMT
I'd honestly like an early Eighth Doctor appearance with this Master, giving plenty of time for the Doctor to forget him. Eight because amnesia is Eight's best friend. You wouldn't even need amnesia. Jodie's Doc has both met "O" before, and left that meeting thinking he was trustworthy and smart. So The Master plays it as that to The Doc's face, we know the truth and we don't need any retcon! Just like how they had River in a couple of her more timey-wimey BF Doctor meets. It’s funny before THAT Reveal, I found myself thinking what with 13 and O’s dynamic, aww they’re kind of cute together I wonder if they are teasing a Doctor/Companion romance with them❤️❤️😊: Between O’s adoration for the Doctor and comment about being unlucky in love and the way 13 spoke with a dreamy look in her eye about the past meeting with O and almost teenage girl with a crush like the way she was texting him back and forth about the fish code. After THAT REVEAL I feel like they might lean hard again into the whole slap kiss former lover Doctor/Master interpretation with 13 and this Master 😈 possibly with a love triangle with them and Yaz🤔 I know this former lover interpretation is nothing new between the Doctor and the Master but just something that I observed between 13 and this Master seem to be in full force🤔
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 23:21:27 GMT
Yeah, I think it's entirely possible to write around it. I don't have a problem with an evil Master but if this is pre-Gomez I think it does keep the characterisation tidier and doesn't retcon her arc. There's also the chance it is post-Missy and there's something in the "everything you know is a lie" thing, and Sacha can easily play much darker and more sombre - what looked panto in 2mins could easily be just his joy at fooling The Doc, then he calms the beans. I'm on board with the casting anyway. Terrific actor and a high profile get for the show. I like that unlike the Simm reveal this didn't need to be spoiled as it's New Year's Day so ratings are gonna be fine anyway, even for the casuals, so no need to spoil anything. Depending on the "lie" that Sacha refers to, he may not even be The Master. It's all still to play for, part 1 of 2 and even then we've got 8 more to go. Could be Omega for all we know, pretending to be The Master. Roll on Sunday. Maybe, I was wondering if the "lie" reference is something bigger, an arc for the season. I'm not sure if the more casual fan will be impressed if the Master who they know, is really another villain they may not have heard about before. Well, I'm not being literal in saying I think that's Omega, that's an exaggeration for illustration - I'm saying pretty much what you are - that when we get numerous references about lies, and trusting no-one - and knowing we're only on Ep 1....I'd be wary in assuming the status quo right now is exactly as it seems. We've got not just a part 2 but also a season ahead to turn things further.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jan 2, 2020 0:13:25 GMT
Really enjoyed this but the lighting ruined it for me: the scenes in O’s house were underlit and the nighttime scenes were too dark to be really suspenseful. I get that with a villain who is a humanoid white light you’d want to keep the background pretty dim, but it did feel a bit like overkill to me. The post-titles part felt rushed to me: loved the idea that the fam had been needing to make excuses for their absences but the assembling and the introduction of the threat felt really fast. The casual wiping of Torchwood and UNIT - as well as C’s lack of knowledge of alien life - was a bit too handwavey for me... unless they’ve somehow flipped to a different universe, as was hinted in O’s house. The gag with 13 having the TARDIS in for a service would have worked batter if she’d been inside: since when has she needed to access the engines from outside before? But once it got going it really got going. I love the change in Ryan and Graham’s relationship (although why they came up with separate stories to explain their absences was beyond me: they could have been traveling together rather than Ryan inventing illnesses). Yaz had a lot more depth to her: that tear said a lot more than any amount of dialogue could. Loved the sequence at the party: “Snap!” was hilarious, and the chase was brief enough that I didn’t feel it outstayed its welcome.
That reveal and cliffhanger, though: that O was the Master was a real surprise but it has only been two years and I hope - as others have suggested - that it doesn’t throw Series 10 under a bus and ignore Missy’s growth. Great cliffhanger with the fam separated from the Doctor and in real peril and with the Doctor in a place that I thought she recognised going from her tone... I’m looking forward to the next episode.
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Post by project37 on Jan 2, 2020 0:39:27 GMT
That was so much fun! I just loved the SCALE of it - the show came back with confidence and verve and was well worth the wait for me. It felt like watching a movie at times.
It looked gorgeous, too - especially the drone shots of the sweeping landscapes. There's a shot in the trailer where the Doctor checks in at the party and there's some funky lighting that made it look like an old movie. I was disappointed to see that effect happen in the show itself - was it the host's tablet prop reflecting light into the camera? The cast looked amazing in that shot and the flickering distracted from an otherwise cool visual.
I'm glad I knew nothing about it going in, because the payoff was pure joy for me. It's a shame that it's instantly been spoiled online - even news articles rushing to put it right in the headline. I have a new appreciation for the levels of secrecy that the current production team is using. That was totally worth it!
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Post by muckypup on Jan 2, 2020 1:38:38 GMT
God that was terrible, badly written, poor production, looks like a cheap cbbc now........... If it’s took a year to produce this, no wonder people are turning to Netflix Everyone trying best with what they got but it looks so cheap and under funded now.........with a stupid story that’s ......well let’s be kind and say it’s written for the budget Very sad, I thought series two would come back fighting instead we got barely a whimper After a terrific run of genre shows on other channels this was well below par i turned it of 10 mins before end, so if that was fantastic production I might have got it wrong Can you send the names of the CBBC shows with productions, locations and sets like that to me in a PM please? Would love to see them! hey dude, I'm sure you meant it sarcastically to PM you, and as you blocked me from PM-ing you (as we not always the best of pals) I will have to post it here... but I was being serious the show looks cheap, real cheap when compared to its competition these days..... if you look at its competition Mandalorian, witcher, lost in space, dark crystal, carnival row, dark materials to name a few recent ones I know dr who is special and its not always about the whizz bang, but its dying in this incarnation.....I think more down to the writing and hum drum stories/locations also the BBC being hard up than anything else, but it breaks my heart to see this as the best they can do...….workaday streets and office sets, fake 60's style motorbike chases, effects package ghost/monsters perhaps its now time to go the ripper st, peaky blinders, northern lights route and get in a partnership, to give it a chance to survive I know you think I am a negative Nancy, and that's fine, but when It came back it was a flagship program, wiping the floor with its competition with its fast paced tales, decent special effects(for the time) and giving us the old doctor in a new exciting format. best I can say about it now is its a bit soap opera with a sci fi angle...…...do we really chuffin care that graham lost grace 12 episodes ago, or that ryans getting a bit better...…. you wanted a list of the shows I think have the same production values on cbbc well I think young Dracula, mi high, wolfblood, eve, hetty feather, worst witch along with the obvious ones like wizards and aliens and sarah jane you will probably disagree with me on everything, we usually do.....hehehe but I am not just being a grump without a point...…...right or wrong......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 1:48:56 GMT
Can you send the names of the CBBC shows with productions, locations and sets like that to me in a PM please? Would love to see them! hey dude, I'm sure you meant it sarcastically to PM you, and as you blocked me from PM-ing you (as we not always the best of pals) I will have to post it here... but I was being serious the show looks cheap, real cheap when compared to its competition these days..... if you look at its competition Mandalorian, witcher, lost in space, dark crystal, carnival row, dark materials to name a few recent ones I know dr who is special and its not always about the whizz bang, but its dying in this incarnation.....I think more down to the writing and hum drum stories/locations also the BBC being hard up than anything else, but it breaks my heart to see this as the best they can do...….workaday streets and office sets, fake 60's style motorbike chases, effects package ghost/monsters perhaps its now time to go the ripper st, peaky blinders, northern lights route and get in a partnership, to give it a chance to survive I know you think I am a negative Nancy, and that's fine, but when It came back it was a flagship program, wiping the floor with its competition with its fast paced tales, decent special effects(for the time) and giving us the old doctor in a new exciting format. best I can say about it now is its a bit soap opera with a sci fi angle...…...do we really chuffin care that graham lost grace 12 episodes ago, or that ryans getting a bit better...…. you wanted a list of the shows I think have the same production values on cbbc well I think young Dracula, mi high, wolfblood, eve, hetty feather, worst witch along with the obvious ones like wizards and aliens and sarah jane you will probably disagree with me on everything, we usually do.....hehehe but I am not just being a grump without a point...…...right or wrong...... Firstly, it's not dying in this incarnation. Secondly & more importantly why on earth did you post with all the weird spacing? Makes it very annoying to read.
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Post by muckypup on Jan 2, 2020 2:06:46 GMT
Can you send the names of the CBBC shows with productions, locations and sets like that to me in a PM please? Would love to see them! Obviously mucky's entitled to his opinion, but as someone who works in kids media, I'm not cool with the implication that CBBC shows are inherently shoddy or low quality. Has anyone watched Hetty Feather, Worst Witch, Dumping Ground or even the new Demon Headmaster (written by our own Emma Reeves and Joe Lidster?) - for the budget and time they have to make them, they look very slick and extremely professional. And are legitmately well-written.
Feel free to call Chibnall's stories the biggest P.O.Ss ever, but can we stop using 'cbbc/kids show' as code for 'really sucks'? It's innaccurate and disingenious.
nothing of the sort, kids shows are great......please don't take offense... hell my favourite TV show of all time is a kids show, Box of delights....I watch it every year.... I've seen all those you mentioned (well not demon headmaster ) and others like eve and wolfblood there great but they have less of budget so never look like a flagship show. not sure how else to put it without upsetting you......its like comparing the animated x-men series with the films, both great but you know one cost less to make this was the big show for new years day and to me it felt/looked like it was made on a shoestring...….with cheap effects and even cheaper locations.......as i say it looks cheap compared with its competition. but perhaps its me expecting too much, sorry to upset ya
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Post by muckypup on Jan 2, 2020 2:10:32 GMT
Firstly, it's not dying in this incarnation. Secondly & more importantly why on earth did you post with all the weird spacing? Makes it very annoying to read. firstly that's just my opinion, and secondly no idea on spacing but yes its annoying.....sorry fixed it a bit, not sure why but it put triple space for each one...… ipads! and apple thought they were PC killers....hehehe
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jan 2, 2020 3:26:26 GMT
If you do descend into the depths, Yaz, remember - the only way is up! I see what u did there !
Baby.. u and me now LOL
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Post by elkawho on Jan 2, 2020 4:30:22 GMT
I thought that was fun! I enjoyed all of it. And I had no idea about the reveal. I actually like this surprise intro to the new Master better than the slow burn we had with the Missy reveal. I'm looking forward to see what kind of Master we get with Sacha. If this episode is any indication, we're in for a good season of Who.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 7:12:07 GMT
Oh, that was amazing! It's good to see the Doctor go toe-to-toe with her adversaries and dubious allies, while playing snap at the baccarat table. They have this chequered history with intelligence agencies over the years (see The Fallen for the Doctor's first[?] encounter with MI6), so it's always interesting to see the two overlap. Mr Barton is the villain we've been looking for, I think. He doesn't have the glib humour of Tobias Vaughn or Harrison Chase's puritanical misanthropy, but he feels as though he should belong to that same cadre all the same. This decade's answer to their form of misdeed. I liked how Yaz's interview with him went from an idle cover to a genuine questioning, really gave the characters an opportunity to flex their skills. Admirably confident and the hour feels well-earned. There's this real sense of moving forward with this debut. They're owning the new "stream-based series" look and it feels genuinely cinematic. Can't wait for the next installment!
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